Goodbye Garuda Hard?

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

Imposing a ilvl sync would fix it easily. The problem then is you would see a huge drop in numbers of people running that content. Striking that balance is difficult.

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If anything, the numbers would return to a normal, expected amount.
People farm Garuda HM over and over because she's the quickest primal to down, and people farm their lights, achievements, or whatever on her. A huge drop when there's currently a huge surge is not exactly a bad thing.

For folks claiming that syncing Garuda HM will mean there will be a lot less people running it - this is probably true. However, currently there are WAY more people running Garuda than there, by all rights, should be, due to her being an easy source of lights/pulses. Add a sync to reinforce mechanics, and Garuda won't suddenly be something no one does; rather it will return to being on-par with Ifrit and Titan HM in the number of folks signing on. That's not so terrible.

Whether it's better for a newbie to be carried past once-difficult content with ease so they can get on to more current content, or whether it's better for the newbie to experience the fights "as they were meant to be experienced" really depends on the newbie, I think.

Personally, I think the sync is a good idea, because I found learning Garuda HM to be fun, and want others to be able to experience that fun without being forced to jump through hoops (acquire mid-level gear, party-finder a like-minded group ALSO with mid-level gear, etc). That's just me, though; others might have the opinion that obsolete content is obsolete, and it's better for newbies to push past that crap asap; it was fun once, but those days are past - on to new fun!

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Originally Posted by Lilyarel

The irony that Garuda was hyped up to be mega powerful in the story. Then she winds up a punching bag and the easiest primal.

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Garuda = The Worf of FFXIV

She gets hyped just to illustrate how much more badass everyone else is.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

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Because titan and ifrit hm are so balanced in terms of people running it. You do realize ifrit and Shiva are just behind 'ruda in terms of light window excitement?

Perhaps from a wistful, "this might be fun" *in principal* point-of-view, forcing a level sync on old content seems like a way to "keep it challenging" or "like the way they originally intended it," but in reality it causes more frustration than "fun."

* Level syncing old content undermines the player's feeling of *growth* and advancement over time. After clearing old content, you progress and "level up" / earn better and better gear, and one of the BEST feelings in RPGs is being able to *feel* that your character is now far more powerful than it used to be.

Level syncing stuff back to original restrictions means you'll *never* feel like you've really powered up or gotten stronger as a character. There've been RPGs over the years that had monster / level-syncing to keep up with your level, and it felt pretty awful. Because every single fight, every single dungeon is a hard / long battle. It's *good* to have content that becomes easier the more you gear up / power up.

Yes, it's very easy because we're so overgeared now, but it's also a great feeling that reflects your efforts from gearing up over time.


* And with the Dev Team funneling players to rehash OLD content (repeatedly) for stuff (Animus Books, Relic Light Grinding, etc.), level syncing old content would just slow down progress to a CRAWL. It would be flat out *awful*. There's no way in hell players would bother grinding Garuda or earlier battles for Light if it took 5 - 7 times as long as it does now. It would inflate the grind to astronomical levels.

No thanks.

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

Imposing a ilvl sync would fix it easily. The problem then is you would see a huge drop in numbers of people running that content. Striking that balance is difficult.

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A drop, but when people say that I feel like they're implying nobody would run it any longer. Meanwhile, more than enough people are running level-synced pre-50 dungeon content all the time. Garuda HM would be no different.

I think the developers made a mistake in choosing not to level sync level 50 content. It works well for the first ~45 levels and then suddenly you have new tanks who are vastly outgeared by their party members (and thus completely useless), as well as dungeons like Praetorium where the disparity between ilevel and content allows the party to abandon players watching cutscenes while the run is continued without them.

These issues would lessen considerably had the practice of level syncing been kept intact at 50.

Don't see what the big issue is with implementing a lvl sync for post 50 content. I wouldn't call it so much making veteran players weaker in the duties/trials, but making the content relevant for people coming up to the content.

It's already bad enough for duties like CM/Prae when you get two fresh 50 tanks who can't hold aggro against 4 ilvl130 dps, or even worse two fresh lvl 50 healers that not only don't know mechanics of fight, but aren't geared enough to heal for speed run pulls or Burn strategies. What are you going to do then? Kick them for being new? Hardly sounds fair.

Maybe to compensate they could slightly increase rewards for content the duties/trials are run for? (more light/higher zodiac drop rates). Also make it so any cutscene in a duty runs automatically?

Don't really hear any complaints about lvl sync for pre-50 content, how would this be any different?

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Originally Posted by LaylaTsarra

I personally think level syncing all content is something that should be standard fare. Some duties now are simply silly and certainly don't provide the challenge they once did. And yes newbies shouldn't have to be faced with anything other than how the dungeons were intended to be run.

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I think part of the problem is SE making endgamers farm low-lvl dungeons and the fact that the endgamers farming of these dungeons are typically more important than newbies playing dungeon for the first time. I suggest that SE cut down on either the number of Items needed from these dungeons and/or adjust the RNG of getting these items while asking players to play these dungeons with an ilvl sync. So instead of farming 500 whatever, you are only farming maybe 20 but the RNG is better and its ilvl sync.

There's no problem with the "Hard Mode" primal trio being easy since they aren't really story content and the Extreme versions are there for the high end players.

The problem is actual story content that isn't ilvl synced and is ruined for new players who don't have a group of friends willing to gear down and join them. While 4 man dungeons are synced, the three instances at the climax of the 2.0 story aren't, nor are any of the later trials.

If I got to the Praetorium as a lone player, had to DF it and all the players just ran ahead and killed everything before I even could finish the cutscenes, I would have quit the game right there and unsubscribed. Square Enix MUST fix this.

Syncing any lower content will automatically reduce the amount of players running said content by 80% lol.

They might as well just replace Garuda's avatar in Garuda HM with Flappy Bird at this point.

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Originally Posted by Skeith-Adeline

Syncing any lower content will automatically reduce the amount of players running said content by 80% lol.

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95% of all statistics are made up or can't be proven.

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Originally Posted by Skeith-Adeline

Syncing any lower content will automatically reduce the amount of players running said content by 80% lol.

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So that's why no one runs the low level dungeons right... OH WAIT.

All it takes is an incentive, which is incredibly easy to create.

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Originally Posted by Gralna

95% of all statistics are made up or can't be proven.

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And the remaining 7% of the statistics are totally incorrect.

I just don't understand why some players think this is how it should be for everyone because I said so sort of speak. I guess they don't want player scary I don't want players getting to content without learning the mechanics but why are you dictating how other people should play and/or learn the game? if you really want this then let it be optional thing but don't force it on all players.

My apologies for the punctuation and such I am using speech to text.o one here is really gives a strong argument as to why it should be synced. it's more of I don't want it to be easy for new players so think it or I don't want them to not learn the mechanics of how it's supposed to be so sync it.

Yeah they don't consider if maybe most players you liked it how it is now and like that if you're stronger or more geared level et cetera then you shouldn't have to be reduced to do the content to the content at the level if you want of course but if you're higher than level you shouldn't have to be synced back down to that level to run the content.

Messed up on the editing which is why my post looks crappy.

Players will always flock to the path of least resistance. Garuda HM just happens to be the fastest way to do the lights. Level sync that and the players who used to do that will find something else instead. Fresh 50's get to enjoy their hard Garuda and longer queue times to boot.

Burning Garuda was fairly common once people were getting into i70 gear and i90 weapons months and months ago.

Sure - you still hid behind the pillar for her first jump - but you still focused all DPS on her and ignored plumes to push her to do her "fake jump" and then you burned her in the middle - just like people farming Lights do right now. The phases after this are entirely dependent on damage output - originally you killed the sisters and immediately focused Garuda to finish her before entering the Howling Eye. Sisters are now entirely irrelevant if players focus and push damage output - most new players are significantly higher gear than i90 with the relative availability of gear via Allied Seals and Soldiery. The lesson new players can learn through this is that damage is important for moving through an encounter's phases. Mechanics in later fights will require them as DPS to be able to focus on the appropriate targets and push their damage at critical points to move into a new phase rather than over taxing their tanks and healers by languishing.

It also makes farming Light faster and more efficient which keeps veteran players in the mix.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

Garuda = The Worf of FFXIV

She gets hyped just to illustrate how much more badass everyone else is.

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I also find it funny that her Egi is the best one out of all the Egis. Garuda is so full of irony it hurts.
I guess its not about the size, but how you use it.

Its commonground for most mmos to phase out old content as time progresses merely because its not viable to constantly rely on older players to keep doing old contents the same way they once did theirs.

Its been done so far with the relic grind bringing players back to old dungeons and primal fights but how long will it last?

How long will it take before people get fed up with going back to Aurum vale or Garuda Hm for yet another quest/grind, 6 months....a year...2 years?

Sooner or later SE is going to have to find a way for new players to get help thru content whilst not making it as tedious as they were before, Garuda Hm beeing a example here since it has no ilvl desync and has become a viable means for the relic grind due to beeing fast and easy.

I wouldn't mind an ilvl sync version if the rewards were worth it.

Garuda normal = hard, Garuda hard = easy.

Well, to be totally totally honest....

Ilevel, no, EVEN LEVEL sync... IS..... ANNOYING...UNBEARABLE..

Why do you gear up if it only works for latest content after all?... It's my opinion about it. As how it is right now for example in PVP, I can easily use all my classes, no need to work a bit on gearing them up at all... I rarely use my current top DPS, BLM and MNK, in amdapor keep and such lowie dungeons because I rather go with my i110 ones and get some variety... (It's useless going with the best geared ones after all...)

Aurum Vale is actually more difficult and longer than the whole set of dungeons HM and EX.... Because brutal level sync.
Old content becomes easier when the player database starts to grow, it has always been like that, I guess.

And, some of us only want to improve and gear up more just for seeing how fast we can do certain stuff now... It's the only motivation of speed runners that for some or other reasons have not yet their own raid or have temporally lost it, disbanded, etc....

You can't pretend old content to remain same difficulty for too long. Castrum Meridianum and Praetorium are the worse cases, they are a joke, and fresh 50s tend to shock with it.... But adding an ilevel sync will only make it more difficult for newbies to enter that content...

So.... By adding ilevel or level syncs, content would not only become hard, but, SUPER hard, for newbies, because only other newbies would deal with it... Kill the farm light in Garuda and you'll have a lot of poor newbies waiting a lot for a queue and having issues with it...Challenging content is supposed to be extremes and later on raids, no hard modes anymore.

PS: Personally, not doing low level roulette since 2.4 when ninja went 50....Prior to that, the last time was around August when last class became 50... Nobody already with all 50 wants to go suffer in that hell for no compensation, or at least, same speed than HM-EX runs.... Thus, the queue is awful.

Remember....in about two and a half months, there will be content that will faceroll YOU if you're not geared enough. Look forward to that instead :P

It's not even Garuda HM. Have you seen Mog HM lately? Heck, people are even doing single tank and single heal on Titan Ex and Garuda Ex.

When certain people learn this "new" way, they can't stomach the old way. T5? Another example where even in DF, one tank act as MT while other tank focus on DPS. I'm glad I know mechanics of these fights.

Supreme Primal modes.

Please look forward to it?

Same thing with Coils. Even T1 used to be a whole ordeal. You'd be surprised how many people back then were so eager to enter Coil raiding only to find themselves unable to enter the front door (so nicely guarded by ADS). At that time, 1 High Voltage meant a wipe. Nowadays, you can speedrun T1 with 1 Tank, get hit with 2-3 High Voltages, skip the trash mobs, and burn the snakes without even feeding slimes.

It is true players are missing out on experiences. But that's just how the game is progressing. With every nerf and gear upgrade, old content gets changed and will never be the same.
The only solution would be to stop introducing nerfs and put strict ilvl Syncs on every Duty.

But then you'd have more people crying that the content is too hard. See that thread about the New Trial being too hard? What a joke. Do you want to see more of those?
The idea is that Square-Enix wants more players (read: lower skill capability) to able to complete certain content within certain timeframes.
So they allow overgearing and introduce nerfs here and there when they deem fit. Look at Pharos Sirius: that dungeon had to be nerfed THREE times before people were satisfied with it's difficulty.

People WILL unsubscribe if they can't clear the content that they want to. I should know because I did it myself last year. I took a ~3 month break because I maxed out on my Soldiery gear but was still unable to clear T5 and Titan EX, which had me really upset and pulling my hair out. But when I came back and resubscribed there was a new Tome available and much stronger gear, which I collected to make myself stronger and was finally able to beat those instances. Did I miss out on experiences? Sure I did. Big shout out to the people who were able to clear T5 and Titan EX in i90 gear. Even so, I was still very satisfied with my clears whether I was overgeared or not.

The point I'm trying to make is that with each new content addition, there will be new things to struggle on, work on, and grow on. Let's just face it: Garuda HM is "old content". And Square-Enix doesn't want that particular instance to be a stumbling block or they'd do something about it being too easy. Being an older and more experienced player, it's nice to think back and reminisce on the difficulties we've overcome. But know that future challenges await, and people won't be gliding through easy mode and getting carried throughout their whole gameplay experience.

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

Imposing a ilvl sync would fix it easily. The problem then is you would see a huge drop in numbers of people running that content. Striking that balance is difficult.

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Careful, there have been discussions about making ilvl sync stronger as you suggest. I agree that ilvl sync should be made stricter to preserve the original mechanics, and have posted that before. Unfortunately there is a group of very vocal end game players who would just die if they could not faceroll older content in a tiny fraction of the intended time, they tend to shout the idea down.

I also agree with the poster that pointed out that the situation with Garuda HM could contribute to many players ignoring mechanics in other content.

The whole point of gearing up is to get stronger. The whole point of getting stronger is to kill things faster. I already refuse to do hard roulette because the ilevel sync essentially negates the last 3 months of my work. If you guys want a challenge then equip lower level gear don't ruin months of gear grind for everyone else just because you can't or don't want to keep up.

You actually can faceroll garuda EX with one tank and one healer. Just need the dps to kill her before the first spiny plume is needed, which isn't difficult if your group knows what they're doing.

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Originally Posted by Aldora

If you really want to promote a battle like Garuda as it was intended, try creating a PF party with 8 people, put on your AF and try it like that. (^_~ )

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Didnt do it in AF but for an FC member went 2 tank 2 heal premade all mechanics dont with kill plumes, hide pull her out of mid.... was fun we actually almost got to the party where you are mid with all but 1 i110 or around that :)