What happens to our iLevels?

they probably just leave them as they are. i135 required level 50 to equip. new gears, i140+ required level 51~60 to equip.

similiar to our AF1 pieces, the body is i55 and required level 50 to equip, other pieces are i55 and only required level 45 to wear them.

They'll probably have item sets increase item level by 10 every player level after 50. This would mean all the current best end game items would be replaced at level 59ish, just in time for the new end game. Going from i50 straight to i130 at level 51 would mean that new players who won't do the old level 50 end game grinding would be demolished by the new zone mobs because they would have to balance the mobs around the gear you get from the zone/quests/vendors. So a gradual increase makes sense, but eventually even the BIS characters would replace their old gear as they prepare for the new end game and upon dinging 60 everyone is at the same point once again.

Current tomes gives i100/110 and i120/130, so next expansion I bet we will have something like i120/130 and i140/150, with whatsoever new currency it will be.

The logic consequence is have the 51+ light party duties dropping gear from i90/100 and stopping to i110, full party 'casual' raids go up to i140, and latest endgame raid giving out i155 or i160.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

That's what is called "responding to player feedback." Never played WoW past level 15, but I have word from people in my FC that it used to be notorious for gear resets whenever an expansion hit.

I think we can all be glad that FFXIV doesn't feel the need to repeat too many of other games' failures.

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Only the heroic gear would be dropped on the earliest quests in WoW. If you did high end raiding, that gear usually lasted until you started to get mid-max level blue and purples. By Max level you were replacing everything with the new heroic gear.

I see FFXIV pretty much being the same way. If you have i130 it will probably carry you to 60, but if you have i100 or less you will probably be dropping that early on.

Actually, in WoW, if you had a full set from the last raid (normal, not heroic), you'd only trade pieces after you were REALLY close to the new level cap.

I'll risk saying that iLvl 130 equipment will only be traded for the AF3.

that "all my raiding gear was replaced on the first quests" only happened ONCE. In BURNING CRUSADE. Negative bias took care of perpetuating the legend, but in reality, it only happened, ONCE, a long long time ago.

Can we please stop talking about WoW?

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Originally Posted by Veerne

They'll probably have item sets increase item level by 10 every player level after 50. This would mean all the current best end game items would be replaced at level 59ish, just in time for the new end game. Going from i50 straight to i130 at level 51 would mean that new players who won't do the old level 50 end game grinding would be demolished by the new zone mobs because they would have to balance the mobs around the gear you get from the zone/quests/vendors. So a gradual increase makes sense, but eventually even the BIS characters would replace their old gear as they prepare for the new end game and upon dinging 60 everyone is at the same point once again.

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Not really, Heavensward requires certain story quests finished meaning their Ilvl wont be i50 itll be ~i90-100 minimum.

I honestly think ~55-57 is when our current gear will start becoming similiar/obsolete to dungeon/quest rewards.

hm... I think it would be more fitting if gear ilvl from 51 to 60 progress from ilvl 90 to 140, so at lvl 51 you can have gear of ilvl that at least lets you enter current endgame dungeons,then progress so at lvl 60 standard/questable/purchasable gear to be better than the one we have now but the new gear for lvl 60 dungeons/raids and the new AF to jump to ilvl160~180

so in rough numbers...
lvl51-ilvl90
lvl52-ilvl95
lvl53-ilvl100
lvl54-ilvl105
lvl55-ilvl115
lvl56-ilvl120
lvl57-ilvl125
lvl58-ilvl130
lvl59-ilvl135
lvl60-ilvl140-raids ilvl160-180

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Originally Posted by jazo

snip

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That actually makes a ton of sense

I wouldn't be surprised if they followed the pattern for FFXI on the second set of relic gear we were shown. Shoes equipable at level 52, then a new piece of gear at 54, 56, 58, and 60. Go ahead and boost each piece to ilvl 110-120 or so, putting it on par with 2.0's endgame gear so people can easily catch up at 60.

That way you have something nice to look forward to as you progress in levels, that will gradually become your final full set.

Getting your RDM hat or BLM hat at 60 was a huuuuuuge deal in FFXI. And the quest series was really fun, despite the tedious coffer farming.

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Originally Posted by Shinun

Not really, Heavensward requires certain story quests finished meaning their Ilvl wont be i50 itll be ~i90-100 minimum.

I honestly think ~55-57 is when our current gear will start becoming similiar/obsolete to dungeon/quest rewards.

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But do those level 50 quests give enough gear with high enough item level? Of course Squeenix could always add proper gear rewards to them for the new players who hit 50 after the expansion is out.

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Originally Posted by Veerne

But do those level 50 quests give enough gear with high enough item level? Of course Squeenix could always add proper gear rewards to them for the new players who hit 50 after the expansion is out.

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Their are story related dungeons which forces a player to get their ilvl up to continue on, so if they even want to advance into the expansion they have to have cleared atm the last story related dungeon is Keeper of the Lake which has an ilvl requirement of i90.

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Originally Posted by Chukkaque

Does anyone know what this means for our current iLevels? With the level cap increasing to 60 and likely the end game iLevels being higher then 135, what happens at 51 or even through 59? Can we expect our WoD, BCoB, Poe and Zodiac gear to become useless right away or what?

Im not tring to cause a panic or complain, Im just really curious as to what will happen with gear levels.

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Well given that each major patch we've had so far has outdated the previous patches gear, I think it's safe to assume the expansion will do the same.

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Originally Posted by Galliano

Well given that each major patch we've had so far has outdated the previous patches gear, I think it's safe to assume the expansion will do the same.

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And which pieces of gear in Keeper of the Lake replaced your old gear, exactly?

When thinking about what the new gear will be, you have to disregard endgame content like raids an EX primals. The 50-60 dungeon content is not going to be designed based on where endgame players are, gear-wise. It's going to be based on where players would be if they started the game fresh and made it to Heavensward content - dungeon and quest gear will likely run from i100 to i120 depending on the exact level of the dungeon. Level 60 dungeons and raids are where we'll be seeing the i130-150 sort of gear; We're not going to run a dungeon at level 53 and toss out our poetics equipment in favor of the drops there.

When leveling up from 15-50 there was no ilevel just level requirements. I think it's same.
Level 52 to get in this dungeon and drops level 52 gear.
Fuck ilevel. Who knows can take 20 hours to get to level 52 and I want a new peice that's stronger then my level 50 ilevel 130.
I love getting a new peice and building up.
Having ilevel 130 tell 60 would be boring.

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Originally Posted by AlexionSkylark

I'll risk saying that iLvl 130 equipment will only be traded for the AF3.

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I hope not and that we can switch ilevel 130 equip with AF2 already ^^
AF3 would be in the 2nd expansion pack.

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Originally Posted by Galliano

Well given that each major patch we've had so far has outdated the previous patches gear, I think it's safe to assume the expansion will do the same.

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Yes, 3.0 gear will outdate 2.55 gear.
At level 60

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Originally Posted by Picori

When leveling up from 15-50 there was no ilevel just level requirements. I think it's same.

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Not exactly right. Only for crafted white gear

As an example:
Infantry Shirt
green dungeon gear
Required Level: 32
Item Level: 34

So for a DRG the Infantry Shirt (required level 32) is better than a Steel Scale Mail (also required level 32), because of the higher ilevel and thereby higher stats.

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Originally Posted by Alipoprocks

Can we please stop talking about WoW?

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We could, but it wouldn't be a good idea. Yoshi P has admitted to drawing a lot of his inspiration from WoW. It is very appropriate to this thread to examine how things were done in WoW as a possible outcome for the expansion. Like it or not, however Yoshi P decides to implement gear progression on expansion release, WoW will probably have influenced that decision in one way or another. We can only hope that care is taken to take only the good ideas from WoW, not the bad - and WoW DID have some good ideas.

One thing I'm curious about is how gear progression will be handled for people who do NOT get the expansion. It may seem odd to consider, but Heavensward IS optional content. People without the expansion may not be able to access the new dungeons or raids, but they will very likely be interested in improving gear past ilvl 130/135 to make it easier to handle OLD content, like Coils or Ex Primals. Perhaps there will be new Tomestone gear for these people to acquire? It's also possible that new content will eventually be added for ARR Vanilla that requires more potent gear; just because we've got an expansion now doesn't mean that they'll never upgrade the base game ever again...

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

One thing I'm curious about is how gear progression will be handled for people who do NOT get the expansion. It may seem odd to consider, but Heavensward IS optional content. People without the expansion may not be able to access the new dungeons or raids, but they will very likely be interested in improving gear past ilvl 130/135 to make it easier to handle OLD content, like Coils or Ex Primals. Perhaps there will be new Tomestone gear for these people to acquire? It's also possible that new content will eventually be added for ARR Vanilla that requires more potent gear; just because we've got an expansion now doesn't mean that they'll never upgrade the base game ever again...

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New crafted gears from market board, I think
To farm the new tomestones for the new tomestone gears the character will need a DoM/DoW class/job at lv 60.

Crafted gears most likely will go scaling like they did before, but from 51 to 59 and be no gear above normally, however dungeon gear with higher ilvl than our current might only be available once reaching the cap 60.

My worries fall more on the realm of "will they implement a new grade of materia?"

All you can do is speculate what the ilvls on gear will be leveling up to 60, nobody knows for sure. Can't really say its going to be this or that, so its a pretty moot point.

3.0 will be the same as WoW, but lots of people don't seem to understand what that means.

If you hit level cap in a WoW expansion (let's say level 70), and were only wearing the stuff that you got during quests (maybe ilevel 155), the gear from the beginning of the next expansion would be incredibly powerful (like ilevel 200 at level 71). However, if you hit level cap in the previous expansion, and then did ALL of the RAID and DUNGEON content as it was released, you would end the previous expansion at about ilevel 235.

The new gear at the beginning of the expansion only seems incredibly powerful if you were using a FRESH character who hadn't geared up over the course of the expansion.

In Heavensward, a FRESH level 50 player will be encountering gear of ilevel 90-100 right of the bat. That's a HUGE increase over their ilevel 55 job gear. But for anyone that has been running expert dungeons, World of Darkness, Coil, etc, the new gear will not be worth equipping until much later in the leveling process.

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Originally Posted by Gunspec

The new gear at the beginning of the expansion only seems incredibly powerful if you were using a FRESH character who hadn't geared up over the course of the expansion.

In Heavensward, a FRESH level 50 player will be encountering gear of ilevel 90-100 right of the bat. That's a HUGE increase over their ilevel 55 job gear. But for anyone that has been running expert dungeons, World of Darkness, Coil, etc, the new gear will not be worth equipping until much later in the leveling process.

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That jump while leveling a new class was nice. Struggling to take a couple of mobs at a time at first, then things getting better with a few upgrades and a what seems to be OP green weapon.

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Originally Posted by Alipoprocks

Can we please stop talking about WoW?

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Makes a change from the 'In FFXI....' threads. ;) (yes, I'm joking. lighten up)

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Originally Posted by jazo

hm... I think it would be more fitting if gear ilvl from 51 to 60 progress from ilvl 90 to 140, so at lvl 51 you can have gear of ilvl that at least lets you enter current endgame dungeons,then progress so at lvl 60 standard/questable/purchasable gear to be better than the one we have now but the new gear for lvl 60 dungeons/raids and the new AF to jump to ilvl160~180

so in rough numbers...
lvl51-ilvl90
lvl52-ilvl95
lvl53-ilvl100
lvl54-ilvl105
lvl55-ilvl115
lvl56-ilvl120
lvl57-ilvl125
lvl58-ilvl130
lvl59-ilvl135
lvl60-ilvl140-raids ilvl160-180

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This seems right. :)

Just my opinion, but i'd like it if the current top end gear got fully replaced around 57/58ish. You have to remember, they said 50-60 won't just be a quick leveling deal, they said it would take some time. That means there's plenty of opportunities from quests/dungeons to allow people to gear up. Having a weapon or a piece or 2 of gear not be replaced until cap is all fine and dandy, but keeping your ENTIRE set of gear and not needing to upgrade til the new cap... it just doesn't sit right with me. Replacing gear has always been apart of leveling in expansions. I have no problem with previous expansion gear helping speed up the first half of the leveling process but it should start getting replaced at least at 56 and almost fully replaced before hitting cap.

I also keep seeing people talking about fresh 50's going into the expansion...I'm sure the first few quests will be tuned lower and will have plenty of gear to get them up to date if they do decide to make it available to them somewhat quickly.

Again, all my opinion as with everyone's as well since we have no true historical pattern or proof to go off of. I honestly felt like I wasted my time thinking about this but I'm bored so meh :p:p:p

In b4 lvl 55 crafted gear is ilvl 130, seeing as you can craft lvl 110 gear right now.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

We could, but it wouldn't be a good idea. Yoshi P has admitted to drawing a lot of his inspiration from WoW.

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I'd like to see a source for that... however...
Just because WoW did something, doesn't mean it worked well over there, or will work here.

In terms of how most RPG's scale, they have unchecked powercreep, unlike FFXIV which has levelsync to counter that. Now consider that levelsync is 110, and levelsync is presumed to be 50 for all existing 50's. Any new V3.0 gear is not going to give you any advantage in the pre V3.0 content. If you want to beat FCoB, you'd be better off with the level 50, ilevel 135 gear, not level 51 gear at ilevel 110. Get the picture? At this point in time, It's safe to assume that there would be levelsync to 50, but not ilevel sync.

Level-sync syncs the PLAYER's stats to that level. ilevel sync, affects the equipped gear's stats. It essentially "caps" the maximum values. In some cases, as the PvP people have discovered, being synced is actually worse than wearing gear that doesn't need to be synced. So whenever you have high level gear in a low level dungeon, it's your stats that have been nerfed, and by extension the gear, since you wouldn't be able to equip high level gear normally at that level.

As for upgrades to the base game... Do understand that it is a technical impossibility to NOT put the new gear into the base game. If the assets were not available, you'd not see people wearing that gear. That means that any gear acquired from V3.0 that can be sold on the market, and still be buyable by people without V3.0, and likewise with any gear crafted. Do notice that in FFXIV, most pink/green dungeon gear is not tradeable. So this means that whatever is locked behind V3.0 content wall be be things like getting those new 3 classes, picking Au Ra as a race (it's more than likely that picking Au Ra will have a starting location in the V3.0 content up to level 15 and then put the player back into the mainstream story starting at picking a GC.)

lv51-53 dungeons/trials will drop ilv 110 or 120 gear (the soldiery gear that will most likely not be obtainable anymore through tomestones when expansion reaches)
lv54-57 dungeons/trials will drop ilv 120 or 130 gear (maybe the poetics gear also won't be obtainable anymore with tomestones when expansion reaches)
lv58-60 dungeons/trials will drop ilv 130 or 140 gear

that's my guess, i dont see they doing new ilv105 or ilv115 gear.

craftable gear will be at least lv130, maybe some other set of 150 gear that needs "specialization"?

After thinking about it I hope the extra 10 levels makes grafting and gathering * and ** nodes/recipes/big fish a little more easier.

sure... cause we're getting gear lvl 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 like we get gear lvl 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10. I really don't understand what people is talking about here. ilvl has nothing to do with character lvl there will be gear for lvl 60 players that will have lower ilvl than 130. who says getting to lvl 60 will be hard? why is people coming up with all this shit?

It has been mentioned in a few places around the forums that basically the current i130 gear is what we'll have until lvl60. I believe it's form one of the interviews or something. But my thinking is more along the lines of:

50-53(maybe 54/55) - i50-i90(to sync with story on fresh chars easily)
54-60 - i90-i130(with af2 thinking i140 as starter endgame gear)

So for those that actually have i130 gear it won't matter until they hit 60 while for those fresh out the gates will actually have a more or less normal progression.

so much this ^

Since crafters have to level up too they will be able to make junk white gear between 110 and whatever the ilvl dungeon drops at 60 are most likely.

Yeah, I AM really interested to see what crafters are making. With combat related gear, the devs can mimic progression from other mmos, but the crafting system they have going is pretty unique. I can't imagine a level 51 leatherworker making something equivalent to a 3 star synthesis with significantly lower crafting skill requirements, yet I can't imagine them forcing all crafters to have the current high stats just to continue leveling. Same thing goes for gathering classes. It'll be interesting to see what they come up with for such leveling progression.

Oh, and someone mentioned the new gear will be available to the people who only own the base game. While it is true you can purchase such stuff on the market boards, I'm sure anything higher than ilevel 135 will have an EQUIP level of 51+. And with xp capped at level 50 for people with only 2.0 license, you can fill your bags with powerful gear you can't equip. I suppose it's the same for people with trial accounts now, since they are capped at level 20 but might be able to acquire level 50 stuff.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Since crafters have to level up too they will be able to make junk white gear between 110 and whatever the ilvl dungeon drops at 60 are most likely.

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I'm expecting most 51 to 60 non-starred recipes cover ilevels between i60(51) and i120(60) and to require new Heavensward common mats with new master craft recipes available at level 60 that cover i130 green gear.

We are unlikely to see the 2.X endgame rendered defunct by the level 51 to 59 leveling gear.

I don't think they're going to include many (if any) new gear sets aside from the AF2 and Alexander.

If AF2 is like AF1, you'll be getting 4/5 pieces at level 55 which are your BiS until 60, where you get the final piece. Then you get to hop into Alexander HM for some gear that's better than AF2 and used to help you get through Alexander EX. I also assume there might be a Tome set that is the same level as Alexander HM stuff that is upgraded with drops from Alexander EX, but that's just a guesstimation.

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Originally Posted by Gunspec

Oh, and someone mentioned the new gear will be available to the people who only own the base game. While it is true you can purchase such stuff on the market boards, I'm sure anything higher than ilevel 135 will have an EQUIP level of 51+. And with xp capped at level 50 for people with only 2.0 license, you can fill your bags with powerful gear you can't equip. I suppose it's the same for people with trial accounts now, since they are capped at level 20 but might be able to acquire level 50 stuff.

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i'm pretty sure you wont need expansion to lvl to 60. expansions are for areas and content not game mechanics. if they raise lvl cap they raise it for everyone. i very much doubt they will include a quest to break the level cap in the expansion area.

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Originally Posted by kehn

i'm pretty sure you wont need expansion to lvl to 60. expansions are for areas and content not game mechanics. if they raise lvl cap they raise it for everyone. i very much doubt they will include a quest to break the level cap in the expansion area.

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I can't think of an MMO where you haven't needed the expansion for the raised level cap. You're totally right about the rest of the mechanics, though, so any changes made to primary/secondary stats and actions will be available regardless of if a player has the expansion. That's why it's a version up as well.

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Originally Posted by Yurihyuga

pretty much the same with any other MMO level 51 gear > all 50 gear. All ilvl 130/135 will be beaten by standard 51 gear.

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any other mmo = wow in your example. i know atleast 3 mmos that didnt do this while rasing thier caps. aion for example. or lotro. i bet there is more. only blizzard resets all gear instantly.

also yoschi already said that this wont be case.

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Originally Posted by Windklinge

only blizzard resets all gear instantly.

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Except blizzard didn't reset gear instantly either. It only seems like that to fresh level-cap players, much like it will seem in FFXIV when a fresh ilevel 55 player is immediately handed ilevel 90 stuff at level 51. In wow expansions, a fully geared character wouldn't start equipping stuff in the expansion until they were at least halfway to next level-cap.

I'm on the WoW hate bandwagon these days myself, so please don't make me defend that game.