Can't Access 3.0 until you complete 2.0-2.55

How will new players clear the group content in the 2.x main story line? Once 3.0 drops, no one will be queuing for that stuff.

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Originally Posted by Brill_

How will new players clear the group content in the 2.x main story line? Once 3.0 drops, no one will be queuing for that stuff.

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People still XP at lower levels (No, not everyone has everything at lvl50), and Duty Roulette is here precisely to ensure that enough people queue for every content.

It's like saying "Once 2.3 dropped, no one was queing for 2.0 content"

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Originally Posted by Brill_

How will new players clear the group content in the 2.x main story line? Once 3.0 drops, no one will be queuing for that stuff.

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People have been saying this for every patch and not once has it been true. SE finds ways to get people into old content.

I dont mind it but I dont think its a good idea either. Face it, the story in this game is stretched waaaay too thin. Itd probably be decent, in a typical JRPG storyline kind of way, if we could get through it with few distractions or delays. But stretching out your typical JRPG story through 3-5 days (in hours) of side quests, and waiting for DF queues to pop isnt fun and only gets worse as the level cap rises.

IIRC, this is similar to what LotRO did with their story, which didnt go over too well, and they allowed you to skip to the next chapter if you needed to. Just unlock dungeons when youre at proper level and let players choose how they want to do it. Honestly I cant imagine why anyone would care or make it their business what someone else chooses to do with their own experiences in the game.

"What!?!!? You dont know what happened before Ishgard?!? GTFO you infidel srub! Come play with me when you rescue Frixio from Toto-rak!" ... really?

I think SE is more concerned that if people skip the earlier story the latter story won't make much sense because details and context won't be there.

If it can be skipped a lot of people will skip it and from past experience will then complain that the story later on is poor cause it doesn't make much sense. Accommodating those who chose to skip would require a lot of time doing introductions and explanations of things already dealt with in the MS. For example, if Midgarsormr is to play and important role, they would have to find some way to explain its significance to the skippers.

It isn't an easy balance. Players of MMOs will often pass by half the game's experiences in the rush to 'endgame'. The problem with this is it gives a bad and false impression of the true nature of the game.

I don't think its an easy balance. SE has made its call, it will be interesting to see how it pans out.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

People can use FFXI as a example but that is a different game and each of its expansion storyline were separate stories except for 1 expansion if I remember right.

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They might just do what FFXI was. First one had that requirement, ones after do not.

I think it's just so the player knows the base game and back story. FFXI's vanilla story while simple, did put in background information behind the three nations and laid the ground work with introducing characters like Zeid, Aldo, and Lion who come back later on. If SE didn't do that with Heavensward, you'd be asking who the hell is Cid when technically you never met him yet.

well, time to carry the newb & say : thank for the bonus, I guess ?

I got caught up doing other things in game and neglected the story mode after you hit 50. Now I'm doing it to "catch up", I just made it to the start of the 2.4 content. I remember a thread a while back someone complaining about the teleport feature, let me tell you if that didn't exist I would still be back in 2.2 or 2.1.While the story itself is interesting, the go here go there, pick this up pick that up, part of it is a killer. I know it is suppose to be done along the way, if you started when the game was released. New players who have to go through that is mind numbing a little. Had to sell the materia you get just to cover teleport fees.

I saw in another thread about this topic some said you could catch up in a few hours from 2.1 on, yeah right, even if you skip all the cut scenes and just clicked through all dialog there is no way you could get through it in a few hours. Of course then you would have no idea what is going on. One good thing doing the new trials and such are a breeze to go through, matter of minutes and they're over.

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Originally Posted by Eye_Gore

I saw in another thread about this topic some said you could catch up in a few hours from 2.1 on, yeah right, even if you skip all the cut scenes and just clicked through all dialog there is no way you could get through it in a few hours.

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A few hours is a bit optimistic.
But 3 months between 2.55 and Heavensward is more than enough ;)

A new player will be starting at level 1. They will do the 2.0 story to level to 50, at which point they will only have to do the 2.1-2.5 story to unlock 3.0 (and those parts of the story do not take long at all).

Going forward a new player starting in 4.0 will do the 3.0 story to level to 60, exactly as we are about to.

The story is only really gating things if a player is lazy and doesn't use the story to level. If you just follow the story you will unlock everything as you would reach the right level to do it anyway. What point is there to having 3.0 be accessible without completing the 2.x story when the only people that won't have completed it will be sub-50 and unable to do anything in the 3.0 areas anyway?

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Originally Posted by Alberel

What point is there to having 3.0 be accessible without completing the 2.x story when the only people that won't have completed it will be sub-50 and unable to do anything in the 3.0 areas anyway?

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What point is there to bring those people in 3.0 when they will still be inexperienced and underleveld for everything, and still have plenty on content to do in ARR ?
Apart from throwing the lore out of the window ?

Heard that they auto level new characters in WoW, so you can play the new expansion. Hope SE never ever go down that route.

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Originally Posted by Adelard

Heard that they auto level new characters in WoW, so you can play the new expansion. Hope SE never ever go down that route.

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they didn't do it with FFXI i bought the version with ALL the expantions including its new one, and i have to start from level 1 (dungeons in that game are a major pain in the butt due to no body playing the game D: )

so i would highly doubt they would do it to FFXIV besides i would say 2.0 to 2.55
skipping all cutscenes would take 3 days watching all cutscenes (as you should) i would say about a week and a half if you do nothing else

hello. i m sorry, but i only skimmed through here. maybe someone can answer me this?

what all can players NOT access in 3.0 before complete the main-scenario in 2.0? like i understand not being able to access main-scenario content. but can't we at least visit some areas? or do a sub-quest?

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Originally Posted by BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY

hello. i m sorry, but i only skimmed through here. maybe someone can answer me this?

what all can players NOT access in 3.0 before complete the main-scenario in 2.0? like i understand not being able to access main-scenario content. but can't we at least visit some areas? or do a sub-quest?

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Without completing the main story quests you will be unable to:
Enter ishgaurd
gain accsess to flying mounts (conformed long ago to be a MSQ)
Gain possible accsess to the 3 new classes (machinist guild is located within ishgard but the other 2 locations are unknown)
possibly locked out of Coreathas western highlands and thus Dravania (due to the flying mount mechanic)
enter alexander ((this follows the assumption it is like The bidding coil of bahamut which unlocked after 2.0's MSQ)
Gain accsess to be able to do any side missions that are attached to heavenward from characters relating or with information relating to 'current' events

Good luck new players who start at Heavensward launch. You'll be spending a generous amount of time in duty finder queue for old HM primals.

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Originally Posted by DracotheDragon

Without completing the main story quests you will be unable to:
Enter ishgaurd
gain accsess to flying mounts (conformed long ago to be a MSQ)
Gain possible accsess to the 3 new classes (machinist guild is located within ishgard but the other 2 locations are unknown)
possibly locked out of Coreathas western highlands and thus Dravania (due to the flying mount mechanic)
enter alexander ((this follows the assumption it is like The bidding coil of bahamut which unlocked after 2.0's MSQ)
Gain accsess to be able to do any side missions that are attached to heavenward from characters relating or with information relating to 'current' events

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this sounds like pretty much everything in 3.0. surely there has to be accessible content that has nothing to do with the main-scenario, right? is there ANYTHING a player can do in 3.0 without fully progressing 2.0? please give me a reason to buy HW and continue playing this game ^_^

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Originally Posted by Fated

Good luck new players who start at Heavensward launch. You'll be spending a generous amount of time in duty finder queue for old HM primals.

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Do you realize Roulettes will still be there ? Or Relics in progress ? Or, god forbid, new relics that ask to do pre-60 dungeons, like the actual ones do for pre-50 ?

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Originally Posted by BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY

this sounds like pretty much everything in 3.0. surely there has to be accessible content that has nothing to do with the main-scenario, right? is there ANYTHING a player can do in 3.0 without fully progressing 2.0? please give me a reason to buy HW and continue playing this game ^_^

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What, you say you're purposely avoiding the main scenario as a lvl 50 player even though its required to unlock two Duty roulettes ?

As someone who just recently re-picked up the game, I'm glad to know this in advance of the expansion and with time to get the MSQ knocked out before it drops. I'd be super annoyed if I joined with friends and they all went on to do the new content but, even upon reaching level 50, I couldn't join them.

I've gone through this in other MMO's and it's a huge put-off when you're a new player. So while I am a bit ambivalent as to whether it's the right decision (it's nice to know some MMO's still make you work for extra content), it could at the same time be detrimental to the influx of new players.

The next surprise gate for the expansion is that you will be required to get a golden chocobo before you can access any flying mounts and 90% of the new content, and that requires breeding your rank 20 chocobo with your max rank racing chocobo.

A lot of posts here talk on the assumption that low level/new players want to dive into Heavensward's story without doing the MSQ. That's not what we (though I'm caught up, I consider myself a part of it because a dear friend of mine is finally joining the game only because of Heavensward, and he's going to be in those shoes) really mean. Maybe we just want to be able to go inside and see the new city, hang around? We don't mean to ignore lore, but even as one who respects lore, I was in Mor Dhona at lv1 because I couldn't resist but want to go see how it was.

My friend and I are roleplayers, and hearing from the RP community that they intend to move a lot of the RP to Ishgard coming Heavensward makes us feel a little excluded, I suppose. That being said, I am still here hoping some new areas will not be locked (one of my alts' homeland is supposed to be Coerthas, and if there's any village in Western Coerthas, I'd like to be able to put him there). But other hand, with flying being the central focus in Heavensward, I expect it will be more similar to an area with no zones (I cannot see zoning working while flying, and why make flying x3 faster than terrestrial mounts if HW maps were of the same size as 2.0 maps?) and instead something more similar to 1.0 huge maps where to fly around. So while I hope for the best, I cannot help but expect the worst for us.

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Originally Posted by BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY

is there ANYTHING a player can do in 3.0 without fully progressing 2.0? please give me a reason to buy HW and continue playing this game ^_^

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Things you can do BEFORE doing any main story quests (past level 20)
be an au ra
and the possibility of 1 of the jobs (if it is in a area that you can get into)
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flying chocobo races?
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uhh... thats about it

the whole point of an expansion is to carry on where the original left off, the end of the original will end with the quest "onto the new dawn" in 2.55, (quest name gained from a reddit translation)
so from that story wise anyone in 2.0 is alienated from ishgaurd while 3.0 players worlds would of changed to fit the new story,

if you chose not to do the mainstory quest you are locking yourself out of all the content in this story driven MMORPG

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Originally Posted by Bluevann

snips

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you realize that you can enter ishgard (that the entrance of the new area, probably) because of what are coming in the 2.55? how explain then that they let you enter when they hate stranger? it's totally lore breaking... the fact that you want to be with the other is understandable.... but seriously, get to 50 and do the whole 2.x will take you something like 2 weeks.... maybe 3... it can be long, i admit it.... but if your friend roleplayer simply ignore the fact that everybody can't enter ishgard and decide to do everything there.... they are the trouble not the game. the game follow a story.... ignoring it for.... social purpose is.... rude to the creator of this story.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

snaps

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I'm not sure if you are speaking by an official source that says that only you, the one adventurer, is allowed to enter Ishgard, but the way the trailer had shown Heavensward, the impression was that the gate would simply be opened, because Ishgard is that desperate for help. The Derplander in the trailer doesn't seem to be asking anyone for admittance inside, so I went with that idea until the "need 2.55 completion" bomb fell on us. If they wanted (and we don't know yet), they could verily go with the first theory, much like how they allowed us to become Ninja before even seeing Yugiri get to Eorzea.

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Originally Posted by Bluevann

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the issue with letting everyone into ishgard would stem due to the fact ishgard is refer to at most times as a isolated country, this would contradict normal gameplay as well as the lore being fed to you. also to go with this, the lore you will learn from being within ishgard will spoil events from 2.5 and 2.55 (as well as 2.4 with shiva) due to the nature of the area and what has happened recently,

with ninja it is simple because the work around is simple, they say they are just traveler from doma, this offers no lore spoilers, the timing will just feel like they left and there and got blown up this is a free time span to move them around, and no matter where you are in the story there appearance will still fit in with the natural flow of time,

with ishgard this is not the case, due to the aforementioned alienation and isolation, ishgard wouldn't make sense to open its doors until 2.55 where they are begging for help.

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Originally Posted by DracotheDragon

with ishgard this is not the case, due to the aforementioned alienation and isolation, ishgard wouldn't make sense to open its doors until 2.55 where they are begging for help.

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I suppose I do see the point in what you say, and I agree. Still I'll be here hoping that jobs and at least the other areas will not be gated as well from exploration. I'm skeptical, but hopeful. I'd really like to make a new character and do re-do the old MSQ as Machinist, I've wanted a gun since 1.0 and doing the MSQ as any of the current jobs didn't feel like it was representing me how I wanted my character to be.

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Originally Posted by Gillionaire

Are they not expecting to get any new players once expansion hits? Or do they simply expect the new players to go through all the old content before getting into any of the expansion??

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You haven't read any of the latest interviews, clearly. Yoshida is expecting a huge influx of new players with the expansion, so I imagine they've already laid groundwork to ensure that those totally nonexistant players who pick up a game like FFXIV for the story, of all things, will be able to complete it.

The devs have said time and again that they're working on ways to keep old dungeons and CT and such alive, i.e. by reducing or eliminating party requirements. Eventually players will be allowed to solo Sastasha (etc.), and supposedly they're already working on converting the CT raids to 8-man instances.

This is not going to be an MMO where old content is dropped the second an expansion hits. The only times I've had difficulty queuing for anything have been when some new patch hit and upset the balance of DF queues, but so far it has always balanced out. I don't really see that changing overnight.

Also, again, Yoshida seemed to indicate that the new Jobs and zones will not have the 2.55 story requirement, though you obviously won't be flying around immediately.

My thought on it.

I am *very* excited that a new RMT player will *not* be bothering me as I'm questing in the new expansion. TY for not letting them see people in the new zones to spam tells to.

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Originally Posted by Rhas

My thought on it.

I am *very* excited that a new RMT player will *not* be bothering me as I'm questing in the new expansion. TY for not letting them see people in the new zones to spam tells to.

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Actually they don't need to see you. All they do is make a "/search all" and they'll have access to all names in the game, even those in areas of expansions the RMTs do not buy.

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Originally Posted by Bluevann

Actually they don't need to see you. All they do is make a "/search all" and they'll have access to all names in the game, even those in areas of expansions the RMTs do not buy.

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It only displays 200 players and starts with the closest players too you. The gold saucer and Revenant's toll will kill those searches ;) So yes, my statement still stands. TY for not allowing them in the new areas to do a /search all and see me.

Most new players like the main story, it helps keep their leveling first time around enjoyable and the way it unlocks content helps them learn about the game in a gradual manner. I get the impression it is just some veteran players annoyed at this and not new players who dislike the idea because the veterans players might have done the main story so long ago that they don't remember main story has always unlocked a lot of content in this game, perhaps the veterans players spent so much time leveling alt classes on same character grinding fates, raids, myths, soldiery, poetics and more instead which has tainted their view on the main story progression method for first time players.

Lets not forget the Umbral Era of the MSQ help level you from 1-50 so those are not complaint worthy in my opinion given they help the new player learn about the game and level their first character to 50 while keeping it interesting. Also take into account the MSQ from the expansion will continue to help them level from 50-60 while keeping it interesting so can rule those out as complaint worthy as far as I am concerned. The only possible complaint worthy potential thing is the Astral Era MSQ but when take into account those unlock a lot of interesting content, most new players won't mind them I am certain.

When think of it from a 'first character' in the game perspective not tainted by veteran bias, I bet almost no new players will care that they have to continue the main story to unlock the level 50+ expansion zones since almost every few main story quests unlocked something new from features to content and they would probably view this as the same as they are used to doing. New players tend to consider the MSQ a blessing and not a curse so more of it to unlock more content is not something most would rage against. Maybe the following expansion MSQ will help people level from 60-70, again that would invalidate any concern in my opinion for those ones given they would make leveling from 60-70 more interesting.

I doubt many players would expect to waltz right into Ishgard at level 1 just because bought the expansion, they still would have to level from 1-50 (expansion zones are 50+) and they would still need to learn about the world they are playing in and unlock things in a gradual manner so not to become overwhelmed. Umbral Era quests help them get to 50, Astral Era unlocks a lot of interesting content and the expansion MSQ will help them level from 50-60. Honestly people complaining about this are making mountains from molehills in my opinion and as someone who has just had their friend start playing this week so know what a new player thinks about it from a new player perspective, the new player friend has no problem at all with this news.

i don't mind having to do MSQ's to access MSQ's. or even other quests that may branch off from the main-scenario. but i highly doubt 99% of 3.0 being locked behind a single wall is reasonable. how much you want to bet there are some players out there that don't give a lick about questing? maybe all they want to do is hang around and craft all day, chill with peeps or something. sure they can level up... but that is all. they can't explore any new areas and such. i understand that some of the areas should be gated, but not every-freaking-thing. it is just wrong.

i dunno. we shall see how it turns out. i am personally not in a position where the gate will have any effect on me. but i am sure, no matter how few, there are players that will be very dis-satisfied by this. minorities are important too.

This is a general annoyance to me, but my biggest issue is:

The MSQ's from 2.1 to 2.55 don't offer any XP. So there is nothing the player is gaining until 3.0. Right now you're earning access to dungeons and new parts of the game. When 3.0 comes out most of that stuff will be old news and not worth it.

TBH, maybe this is the FF/Tales/Atelier fan in me speaking, but I am glad you have to follow the MSQ to the end, it makes more sense. And it also brings me to a realization I have been ghosting in the back of my head about games like EQ2 and Rift...they lose a lot of the lore knowledge by not being pushed along the main story. And that makes discussion about in-game NPCs suck when the newer generation of players starts up.

Take for example, EQ1/2...New players don't realize that the Alliz Tae'Ew tribe of lizardmen's name is 'We Eat Zilla" reversed, which is a lore-based thing you would have learned going through the main quest lines (which used to require completion of the Lizardman Language in EQ2). Their naming sense is like that due to devs playing around with their religion -- They worship a giant meatbeast (a cow/dinosaur hybrid) named Zilla; the main tribes being Alliz Raef'Ew, Alliz Tae'Ew, Alliz Stol,Ew, and Alliz Diar'Ew. Some of these tribes are so religiously fanatical that they actually OPPOSE Zilla religiously. Totally lost on new players though, to the point that the ones in the latest expac don't fit with this lore :/

I like the idea of them having to go through the story but how will this work when no one is doing old content anymore? all the main scenario content we do now for extra seals is it still gonna do that after 3.0?

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Originally Posted by silverhope

I like the idea of them having to go through the story but how will this work when no one is doing old content anymore? all the main scenario content we do now for extra seals is it still gonna do that after 3.0?

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SE's made some statements that they don't plan on any updates/expacs invalidating old content. Makes me wonder what they are going to do, then, with Heavensward -- might get some of our high-end stuff from queueing for the roulettes still prolly.

Also, not sure about other people's FCs, but mine is more than willing to lend a hand for first-timers running an MSQ dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Red_Wolf

This is a general annoyance to me, but my biggest issue is:

The MSQ's from 2.1 to 2.55 don't offer any XP. So there is nothing the player is gaining until 3.0. Right now you're earning access to dungeons and new parts of the game. When 3.0 comes out most of that stuff will be old news and not worth it.

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The Astral Era quests not giving XP is not a big issue, they unlock a lot of content the new player may want to try from dungeons and trials, raids or such in the future...just like every few levels of the MSQ has done from the offset with Umbral Era and expansion MSQ will do. Don't forget a few of the Astral Era quests also give Materia grade IV which can net a new player a lot of Gil which alone makes them worth doing.

Every single dungeon in this game is locked behind some quest or another and most dungeons, trials and such plus game features are locked behind MSQ every few levels plus mounts, leves, airship travel and ability to visit Limsa or even gold saucer and more are all locked behind such quests and a level requirement in order to help gradually get the new players used to the world and the game features so they won't get overwhelmed by having everything open to them or dumped on them all at once.

Really all SE is doing is the same as they have always done and as said since my friend only just started playing and has no problem with this I at least know what a new players perspective is on the issue even if I do not know what every new players perception will be. The only people I see complaining about it are some veteran players here who may have forgot what it was like first time they played the game leveling their first character to 50 using MSQ to unlock most of the content in this game along the way.

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Originally Posted by silverhope

I like the idea of them having to go through the story but how will this work when no one is doing old content anymore? all the main scenario content we do now for extra seals is it still gonna do that after 3.0?

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Not sure what you mean since every expansion will probably bring a flood of new players which will play with each other doing that old content as they level up towards newer content as has always been the case, SE will also continue to incentivize veteran players to do the old content as well which will help. On top of the fact if they join an FC then the FC members will probably help speed things up for them.

The sheer amount of new players that I expect to start after the expansion hits will probably be enough to not even require veterans to help them since will be so many new players that they will have no problems grouping up and helping themselves. It is only the stragglers which tend to need some help from veterans or FC members, players that join when not lots of new players to play with but it will be no worse than what we have now as SE will continue to persuade veterans to do lower level content in order to gain things they can use at the higher levels and they can also join an FC to get help there too.

My main concern is that new players will have to wait a long time to clear many story based dungeon/ trials.

Although they did mention that they'd like to implement npc companions to help you with dungeons. Whether or not they can implement that by 3.0 remains to be seen

My only concern here is as others players have voiced (****please listen SE!!!!!*****).....the dungeon/raid based content is going to become difficult to complete. Maybe not the dungeons since we'll have people leveling new jobs all the time, but CM/Prae/Westwide are really long queues on my server, which is quite busy, esp. if you are DPS. LOTRO ran into a similar issue since they also required players to complete previous story arches before entering into new content...but they resolved that by simplifying some of the "group" content to accomodate smaller groups and/or the solo player. That may be a good option for SE to look at going into the future.

Most comments now are covering the short term issue of this plan for Main Scenario but I'm looking more concerned for long term issue when the game reach 4.0 and higher.

2.0 to 3.0 is decent currently because 2.0 and 2.X doen't take too lon to finish but what about when the game has built up the Main Scenario to 4.0 and higher.

For example, in 5.0 era if they follow how they handle 2.0 to 3.0 a new player starting in 5.0 must start from 2.0, work into 2.X, then complete 3.0, then go through 3.X, complete 4.0, then finally finish 4.X Main Scenario before they can start playing 5.0 and the majority of the new 5.0 contents.