MGP too much of a grind

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gainsborough

But i have to agree on one thing be able to sell cards for MGP or anything. I battle 3 NPC and got 3 cards i have. they like wasted of space in ur bag if u can't sell or trade them. im only holding on to them just in case they do something like that. if only the Lady Luck From FFX-2 was in game it help boots ur luck. but it not. As Leblanc will say
"Sssssooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrryyyyyyy no luck for u Love"
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...from_FFX-2.jpg

---

You can sell them to the NPC for MGP in the TT area in GS. I forget what they are called, or do you mean something different?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eye_Gore

I am, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

---

When I say 'enjoy' I am referring to the rewards, the stuff we work for. No you are not. The amount of time needed to get best zodiac weapon for each job, plus ALL pvp rewards, plus all MGP gold saucer rewards, plus all hunt rewards, plus all crafters maxed and peaked in best gear, same with gathering, plus all achievements, plus every mount, plus every minion, plus everything else requires more time than the rate at which new stuff is released. You have not done the impossible. Even if you never slept, also impossible, and played 24 hours straight there would not be enough time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by h0tNstilettos

When I say 'enjoy' I am referring to the rewards. No you are not. The amount of time needed to get best zodiac weapon for each job, plus ALL pvp rewards, plus all MGP gold saucer rewards, plus all hunt rewards, plus all crafters maxed and peaked in best gear, same with gathering, plus all achievements, plus every mount, plus every minion, plus everything else requires more time than the rate at which new stuff is released. You have not done the impossible. Even if you never slept, also impossible, and played 24 hours straight there would not be enough time.

---

Enjoying and completing/finishing are two completely different things. One broad, one is specific. You can start something and enjoy it without ever finishing it, because you enjoyed the process.

As far as finishing something goes, it's called prioritizing. It's also called making a decision for yourself. Just like IRL, you're not going to be able to do literally everything in life. A game is designed to have restrictions and rules in place that the player must abide to. For example, you can't just go from lv1 to 50 immediately without cheating/hacking (it is/was possible to do this). It is designed to take time to do within the limitations of what is made available for you to achieve this with. That's how design works. That's also how life in general works (be it RL or virtual). Can the game change to accommodate a faster finish time? Of course. They could instantly mail everything in the game to everyone regardless of level. Is it something they want to do or that it's currently designed for? Clearly not.

You're playing an MMORPG. A genre which solidified the idea of a virtual life. You don't get things ASAP in an MMORPG. You spend years making progress to doing this, and you dedicate those years with massive amounts of hours played if you want to ever "complete" it up to whatever point it is at the time. That is how the genre is. If you wish it to be another way, or even claim it's a flawed/bad design, only shows how little you actually know about it. Things can change, but fundamentals remain... otherwise it wouldn't be what it is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by h0tNstilettos

You have not done the impossible.

---

Umm yeah. I was merely saying that I am enjoying very much the things that I am interested in, in this game. Not that I did all things the game has to offer, I never will, and seriously doubt anyone will. Heck I only play one battle class, because that is what I am interested in, and I enjoy it.

Agreed. Although I already unlocked Fenrir and Gamblers trenchcoat, the grind for Gambler pants and cloud card is going to kill me.... @-@

Say what now lol i did not know u have to sell them to NPC in GS. i just ran to close NPC when i won my last Double card and said it can't not be sold. so i like WTF can't sell or trade them to friends. i just Thought to forgot add in place to sell ur Double cards u had btw ty im going go look for the person in GS

What's up with all these completionists in here? Didn't yoshi-p repeatedly mention that he wants XIV to be like a theme park? - with gameplay styles and long term goals for any type of player. Be it a casual mmo-player, raider or someone who's already content with socializing whilst enjoying GS attractions.

So if someone really needs to own a fenrir mount with their dreadwyrm weapon, their zeta and pvp gear then they really shouldn't complain about it on the forums. It's everyone's own decision on how they want to spend their time in Eorzea after all.

In a nutshell ;
If you think expensive vanity isn't worth an equal amount of effort than learning and beating t13 or going through the relic questline then the Gold Saucer simply isn't for you, settle with the more affordable rewards and start working towards something else, something that'll keep you motivated to reaching your set goal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Welsper59

This is not including any variables, such as Cactpot winnings or otherwise I'm assuming, as 20sec of effort if you can win that potential 10k daily isn't exactly something to complain about. So a little over 3 months essentially? How long have you been playing FFXIV again?

---

You are acting like winning the 10k daily jackpot is even remotely a sure thing. Or that doing it 100 times in a row is even remotely plausible. Or even possible (it's not). It should not even be considered as a factor, or in the very least, you should take the average jackpot won and use it as your variable. It's not even going to come close to 10k. Cherry picking data isn't influential.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LandricFrey

Are you sure? Ending sentences with "lawl"s and "lol"s in bold seems childlike and irrational. Maybe it's just me.

---

Well apparently outlandishness is en vogue here; just trying my best to fit in. When people act like 133 hours of doing nothing but grinding minigames is insignificant, I think a LAWL is warranted. It's not an insignificant amount of time, and it's not a reasonable amount of time. It's crazy.

I totally, 100% acknowledge that these are all vanity items. The mounts, the costumes, the pets, etc, all just vanity. I don't think they should be quick to get.

I also can totally, 100% acknowledge that the prices are insane and basically there to 1) satisfy only a small percentage of the player base who have countless hours to kill and little "content" to fill it with, and b) make the Golden Saucer patch stretch out as long as possible. 100 days is not a "quick" amount of time. Spending even 30 days to get one item is a "long" amount of time to me because the opportunity cost is so immense.

I was super excited to read about the Golden Saucer but it was a big letdown. I would like it to improve but there's just such vocal opposition to the notion that anything should not be an excruciating and interminable grind.

It would be nice to be able to alter bets, someone said it earlier, higher risk, higher rewards. I agree things shouldn't be obtainable early and easily, I do have a bit of time to spend playing, I can understand that people who don't get to play that much might be a bit vexed though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Welsper59

Enjoying and completing/finishing are two completely different things. One broad, one is specific. You can start something and enjoy it without ever finishing it, because you enjoyed the process.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eye_Gore

Umm yeah. I was merely saying that I am enjoying very much the things that I am interested in, in this game. Not that I did all things the game has to offer, I never will, and seriously doubt anyone will. Heck I only play one battle class, because that is what I am interested in, and I enjoy it.

---

That's great that you guys enjoy it, but for me this game doesn't have any enjoyable processes. Maybe the first so and so times doing it, but when you are required to do the same thing over and over an absurd amount of times to even get anywhere, it's not fun. TT is an exception because it's customizable and always varied depending on who you play. PVP might be another exception.

MGP grind is fine I think in general though I only do GATES, TT, both Cactpots and Chocobo Racing.

I do not play mini games much because reward is too low. Perhaps they could increase it slightly.

I also think they could increase the MGP refund from the card duplicates sold to the TT NPC.

The only issue I see with MGP is as Angel said. Upping the MGP refund for card duplicates. Right now, the return is absolutely horrid.

Is 1M MGP a lot of points? Absolutely. But if you think about it, so is 10M Gil, and houses cost more than that, and with the way transfer rates work, 10m gil = 1m MGP.

So it's an investment of time and money to get those things. You need to devote a lot of time and energy if you want those 1M MGP rewards. Either that, or predict the future and win the Jumbo Cactpot twice in a row.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feron

You are acting like winning the 10k daily jackpot is even remotely a sure thing. Or that doing it 100 times in a row is even remotely plausible. Or even possible (it's not). It should not even be considered as a factor, or in the very least, you should take the average jackpot won and use it as your variable. It's not even going to come close to 10k. Cherry picking data isn't influential.

---

... who said anything about the Cactpot being a sure thing? In fact, you didn't even mention the Cactpot at all. I literally started off by saying that it wasn't being included. LITERALLY SAID IT lol. It's implying that anything earned from Cactpot (doesn't have to be 10k) was not being included when I mentioned 3 months. So... even quicker than the mentioned 100 days if you luck out with daily/weekly Cactpot? I must emphasize again, that it's NOT including potential Cactpot earnings, as I've stated repeatedly. Maybe you were referring to the Cactpot, but there was ZERO indication in your post to suggest that. Pretending (or forgetting) that you did (or didn't) say certain things, combined with making up other things, is a very bad habit that I suggest you stop doing lol. As a side note, 10k per day is easily possible to do without much luck required, albeit mind numbingly boring for the handful of hours it might take (under 2 if you win against Indolent Soldier every minute).

Still though, these are long term investment items. If you want it fast, you're going to be dedicating a crapload of time to get it in this short time-span you're hoping to get it in. MMORPG, the genre that is designed to last a player YEARS, afterall. Why risk making every reward quick and easy to obtain, which then ends up boring any long term players by giving nothing to work towards? If all you want is something like the Fenrir mount, and nothing else about the Gold Saucer interests you or anyone else, then clearly... this content is not for you. Most of us, believe it or not, actually have fun with progressing towards the reward. It's fulfilling, in its own way. Something that, I'm assuming, you're viewing as tedious... probably because you're likely just thinking about the reward being so far away.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Welsper59

I must emphasize again, that it's NOT including potential Cactpot earnings, as I've stated repeatedly. [sic] As a side note, 10k per day is easily possible to do without much luck required, albeit mind numbingly boring for the handful of hours it might take (under 2 if you win against Indolent Soldier every minute).

---

I'm not pretending or ignoring anything, thanks. This whole argument is about subjective perceptions of tedium. You think "a handful of hours" every day for weeks on end is fine. I don't. That's the argument in a nutshell. You can assert that it's "easy"; ease has nothing to do with it. You can say that "its meant to last years" and I will boggle at that concept. Other people can use the tired excuse that people complaining "just want a handout", and that's equally ridiculous.

"Tedium" literally means "tiresome because of length or dullness". Admitting that something is "mind numbingly boring" is pretty much admitting that it's tedious, but whatever.

People's perspectives have gotten warped by years of MMO developers pushing out substandard products and people just gobbling it up because there's no alternative. The reason there's no alternative is because the consumers don't demand better.

There can be a happy medium between "handed out for free" and "tedious grind". The Saucer is not even close to being at that point, and people are entirely justified in complaining about it.

I'm done with this thread, so you can have the last word, and that will be that for my part. If this content "just isnt for me" then that's fine, and maybe ill unsubscribe, and FFXIV will lose another 15 bucks a month.

Because that's good for the health of the game. That's what lovers of this game should strive for: fewer subscriptions. Right? Sure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HakuroDK

The only issue I see with MGP is as Angel said. Upping the MGP refund for card duplicates. Right now, the return is absolutely horrid.

Is 1M MGP a lot of points? Absolutely. But if you think about it, so is 10M Gil, and houses cost more than that, and with the way transfer rates work, 10m gil = 1m MGP.

So it's an investment of time and money to get those things. You need to devote a lot of time and energy if you want those 1M MGP rewards. Either that, or predict the future and win the Jumbo Cactpot twice in a row.

---

Those transfer rates only go up to 500 GMP. That means there is no effective transfer rate, or value conversion between Gil and MGP.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Welsper59

Why risk making every reward quick and easy to obtain, which then ends up boring any long term players by giving nothing to work towards?

---

I'll say it outright, since apparently it wasnt clear from earlier posts made:
The GMP price of the highest purchable items is too high by about 100%, by hardcore grinder's standards.If it was half that price, it would still take a long ass grind, but not one that even a hardcore grinder thinks is a little too much. Naturally this is in comparison to all the available prices, and their sum.
That's not a complaint of ''wanting it now'', its a logic/sober assesment of an items price.

And lest not forget that this is only a mini-game in the actual MMO. For anyone that has other things to grind, these prices are well out of reach. Even over the course of months.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

It is MGP, not GMP. Might be minor but you said it right once and wrong twice in the same post so just clarifying. :D

---

xD I get confused a lot with abbreviations. In this case I guess its my inner gatherer confusing me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aeyis

...

---

It is MGP, not GMP. Might be minor but you said it right once and wrong twice in the same post so just clarifying. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aeyis

Those transfer rates only go up to 500 GMP. That means there is no effective transfer rate, or value conversion between Gil and MGP.

---

I know that. I'm merely using that as a measuring stick for how much value MGP has compared to Gil.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feron

I'm not pretending or ignoring anything, thanks. This whole argument is about subjective perceptions of tedium. You think "a handful of hours" every day for weeks on end is fine. I don't. That's the argument in a nutshell. You can assert that it's "easy"; ease has nothing to do with it. You can say that "its meant to last years" and I will boggle at that concept. Other people can use the tired excuse that people complaining "just want a handout", and that's equally ridiculous.

"Tedium" literally means "tiresome because of length or dullness". Admitting that something is "mind numbingly boring" is pretty much admitting that it's tedious, but whatever.

People's perspectives have gotten warped by years of MMO developers pushing out substandard products and people just gobbling it up because there's no alternative. The reason there's no alternative is because the consumers don't demand better.

There can be a happy medium between "handed out for free" and "tedious grind". The Saucer is not even close to being at that point, and people are entirely justified in complaining about it.

---

LOL You really are a rather oblivious person, aren't you? I literally pointed out what you ignored, but you apparently don't believe that part of the argument existed so... okay man. That part of my post had nothing to do with subjective perceptions, as it literally was there lol. That's what I was referring to as you ignoring what you said, and why I replied with what I did. You are right, however about the subjective nature of "easy", something that I didn't dispute. The time investment part though, that's perfectly fine. You do what you need to do to get things done. It's called "planning". If you can only play a total of 5hrs a week, there's ZERO reason why you should expect to get anything at the same time as people who spend that long every day. It's how everything works. Can it be too long to get? SURE! But that's also subjective. See how that works? It's a two-way street.

The MMORPG genre, specifically this game for reference, has changed drastically for the better. If you were around over a decade ago playing these games, you'd probably see that fact. If you were actually around, it's unfortunate that you (along with some others) refuse to actually see what's in front of you. There is always room for improvement, but the time requirement for unnecessary side goods isn't exactly something too important lol. Maybe I'm just one of those people who don't mind a lengthy grind designed to take months, so long on my own personal terms (i.e. majority of the process being something I don't need to rely on others for). Surprise, surprise though... MMORPGs fit my perspective. It's like what I replied to someone else in a different thread about the high cost items.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Welsper59

Honestly, 1mil seems perfectly fine to me. It's a vanity mount meant to showcase prestige (and luck, in the case of winning the Jumbo Cactpot). No different than driving around expensive cars IRL. They showcase little to no practical use for anyone besides showing off or making yourself feel unique/above others. It'd be like the Fungah achievement title. Showcases little to no skill in having it, but it certainly is something for e-peen and personal achievement, which is exactly why these things exist.

---

Quote:

---

If this content "just isnt for me" then that's fine, and maybe ill unsubscribe, and FFXIV will lose another 15 bucks a month.

Because that's good for the health of the game. That's what lovers of this game should strive for: fewer subscriptions. Right? Sure.

---

Better than negative players complaining all the time about things that are not intended for them. I think even the devs will agree that losing a few self-destructive players over decisions that concern the genre itself is of minimal to no loss in the grand scheme of things.

I say the same thing to everyone who says what you did. Trust me, you're not anywhere remotely as important as you might believe yourself to be, at least when it comes to being a subscription player. There are tons of players who quit and tons who join. This is how business works when you deal with an MMORPG. So again, if you do quit, you're still nothing but a generic statistic, just the same as the rest of us that stay. Welcome to the family. Now, stop crying for attention, as though you really believe you matter as an individual to a business catering to millions.

Then again, you'll probably ignore that part too, assuming you're lying about being done with this thread anyway. Continue on.

Well honestly, somebody did the math here before so.. 133 hours of pure grinding just to get 1 mil MGP, multiply that with all the rewards possible from that place, cards mounts clothes etc.. the total sums up to more than 3 mil, which is an insane amount of MGP to grind with the current rates. Why grind and not "win big from lottery" well..

Even if you say "well just win the weekly lottery". Do you actually realize that the chances of winning 1 mil MGP from that is 1 chance out of 9999? That's 0.001% chance once, in one weeks time, in real life. Sure it makes sense in real life lottery yeah, but in an online MMO? No. I will probably NEVER win the jumbo cactpot lottery, ever, during the whole time this game is actually up and running and I'm playing it. It's almost the same as having 4 numbers correctly in real lottery, which I btw haven't got, ever, during my whole life. That's how low the odds are.

Even the achievements for winning a lot of cumulative MGP in the cact-lotteries, I find those really funny too. Because for example you'd need to win the mini cactpot 100 times with 10k payout to actually get 1 mil MGP total from it. Past few days I haven't even got the "chance" to win 10k from mini cactpot because the cards I have got, haven't even contained the "3 2 1" numbers in correct order on a row to actually win it and it's not that hard to figure out "which row" could contain them when all the numbers in the circles are from 1-9 and there's only one number of each one *GASP* Big shocker for people who haven't noticed that xD

Something should be done with this. Either the lotteries are held more often, like once a day for jumbo cactpot or once in 3 hours for the mini cactpot which actually would make more sense considering the odds they have or MGP risen up from everything you do. I can understand SE not wanting people complete this "in a month or in a week" but this will take years and nobody has the strength to farm all this and people usually tend to be "completive" in these kinds of games, they want to accomplish all they possibly can and obtain everything possible, as I am, so this is just depressing. Even farming 1 million MGP for anything is a lot already.

Even the card possibilities from all the dungeons / trials should be greatly increased. I don't really call it fun to do a certain trial (Ultros fight) 272 times just to get Terra drop and no this is not a lie, it took 3 days of intense grinding and only doing that fight alone. Now I'm like what 0/50 on shiva fight and 0/30 something on Thornmarch. 0/20 on big keep and ugh.. yeah, you get the idea, the odds are so low.

I don't like the fact that the only factor in obtaining something in this game is RNG. RNG this and RNG that with terribly low odds. There should be a "hidden" counter in this game, that whatever you decide to do that can drop for you and you alone, cards etc. Each and every time you complete a certain objective and are not lucky enough to obtain it, you should get a 0.01% chance increase in obtaining it the next time. So in minimum how unlucky you ever are, you could only possibly do it 100 times before you are sure to get it. As RNG works now, it is entirely possible for you to spend the rest of your life doing something and never obtaining it, which shouldn't be the case at all, ever in an mmo people play for fun and entertainment.

So yeah, these were just stupid frustrated ideas about this whole system, but I'm fairly sure that they will do something about these rates because they are not ok how they are at the moment anyways.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LandricFrey

MMO = Grind. (massively multiplayer online withstanding) Some worse than others. For this game I'd say it fits with SE's take on grinding. You don't like it? Vote with your wallet. Crying about it won't change a thing.

---

Actually, only bad MMO's are grindy, and I don't really want FF14 to become a bad MMO. Games should be fun, not mind-numbing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Trixxy

What's up with all these completionists in here? Didn't yoshi-p repeatedly mention that he wants XIV to be like a theme park? - with gameplay styles and long term goals for any type of player. Be it a casual mmo-player, raider or someone who's already content with socializing whilst enjoying GS attractions.

---

Casuals never will get anything of this. Casuals play a few hours at max - per week! They will not even get those 60 cards together for an effective TT grind. It's exactly those high prices and low MGP gain, which make Gold Saucer very elitist and not in the slightest casual.

I don't even care for that mount, but even if you want to do the chocobo race (the main gameplay of Gold Saucer now), you need a lot of MGP, because even there is a lot of RNG, which will cost you 10000nds of MGP.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Welsper59

The MMORPG genre, specifically this game for reference, has changed drastically for the better. If you were around over a decade ago playing these games, you'd probably see that fact.

---

MMOs went from grinds, to RNG + grind. Such a wonderful improvement for the better. As I believe I've mentioned before in one thread or another; it's those who grinds are intended for that are making mention of the prices in MGP being a bit too high. (they should be around 50%, for the highest prices that are currently at 1M)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Feron

People's perspectives have gotten warped by years of MMO developers pushing out substandard products and people just gobbling it up because there's no alternative. The reason there's no alternative is because the consumers don't demand better.

---

This is the most reasonable post on the forum. I feel like arguing with a brainwashed mass of people anytime I mention a grind, so used to it they don't even have any arguments to defent it except "it's always been this way" or "but this other game is way worse!". Baffling. I'm glad I took a step back, put all the time I wasted on them in perspective and realized how little it was worth before I got sucked in the MMO mentality.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nasibihc

Even if you say "well just win the weekly lottery". Do you actually realize that the chances of winning 1 mil MGP from that is 1 chance out of 9999? That's 0.001% chance once

---

the chance is 0.01%

gold saucer will be the main attraction for the next 3.5 months until hw will be released
if you play tripl triad for only 1.5 hours per day you'll get your fenrir mount, if you win some cactpots and do some gates you'll accumulate another 200-300k mgp for setzer outfit or other vanity stuff

everyone can get nearly everything with that minimal effort until the 23th june

the ratio is okay I think

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RobinRethiel

Casuals never will get anything of this. Casuals play a few hours at max - per week! They will not even get those 60 cards together for an effective TT grind. It's exactly those high prices and low MGP gain, which make Gold Saucer very elitist and not in the slightest casual.

---

Actually... you don't really need a 3 star deck to be able to farm MGP, you can farm Indolent Imperial with a 2 star deck and win 90% of the time (mostly using beast tribe cards), and he's the NPC that gives the higher rewards, so no need to get those 60 cards, those are needed if you want to breeze through some of the NPC with the harder decks like Swift in Ul'dah.

The MGP gain in "the main attraction" Chocobo Racing is crushing. It's a pitiful amount of MGP that nowhere near adds up to all the feeds/waters/covering slips you'll be needing. Doesn't feel right that after 10's hours of grinding a chocobo up to 40 I then have to go and grind that damn Imperial for MGP because I have nowhere near enough to roll the horrific RNG dice more than 3 or 4 times on covering chocobos. Grind grind grind grind grind in the 1 part of the game that should have been the welcome break from the huge grind that is the rest of the game. It's a nice way of keeping us distracted from the lack of TT cards, GS attractions and prizes though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aeyis

MMOs went from grinds, to RNG + grind. Such a wonderful improvement for the better. As I believe I've mentioned before in one thread or another; it's those who grinds are intended for that are making mention of the prices in MGP being a bit too high. (they should be around 50%, for the highest prices that are currently at 1M)

---

I dunno, some folks are well into the 300k, if not over the 400k MGP range earned already. I'm over 200k personally since last week, and I really don't go for MGP as much as more dedicated grinders do (I do work and have an outside social life from time to time, after all). In fact, most of my hours were spent in the last week with farming cards from NPCs and raids, not exactly a high profit venture for MGP in tackling Swift, Rowena, and whatever his name is in South Shroud for Odin.

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...l_the_minions/

I REALLY don't think the grind for 1mil is that far off given how short of a time its been since 2.51 release. In an MMORPG a 1-2 month grind, if not 3 month average, is NOT unexpected. If you want something, you go for it. If you want it fast, you need to find a way to get it fast, regardless of what it takes. 500k for what most would consider the most luxurious items, given how fast we can obtain them if we actually try to efficiently, isn't exactly what I would call a long-term goal... which is precisely what they are designed to be. Maybe I'm just out of touch with the rush mentality of people these days, particularly with the MMORPG genre.

Although, truth be told, I really do think they'll lower the price at some point. Maybe even raise the reward yields by a slight amount. But the lowered price, if it happens, most likely won't be until much later in the game. As in late this year, at earliest, so that time has been allotted to those who are striving for it and want to show it off (since that's literally all it's good for). Once the novelty appeal has died down and it's no longer seen as "new", then it might happen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RedAntares

Actually... you don't really need a 3 star deck to be able to farm MGP, you can farm Indolent Imperial with a 2 star deck and win 90% of the time (mostly using beast tribe cards), and he's the NPC that gives the higher rewards, so no need to get those 60 cards, those are needed if you want to breeze through some of the NPC with the harder decks like Swift in Ul'dah.

---

You may not need it, but it's a lot easier and you can get a 100% win rate.

Quote:

---

I dunno, some folks are well into the 300k, if not over the 400k MGP range earned already. I'm over 200k personally since last week, and I really don't go for MGP as much as more dedicated grinders do (I do work and have an outside social life from time to time, after all). In fact, most of my hours were spent in the last week with farming cards from NPCs and raids, not exactly a high profit venture for MGP in tackling Swift, Rowena, and whatever his name is in South Shroud for Odin.

---

You are lucky or you are grinding. Just because some people play this game 24/7 and got more MGP, does not make 200k a low value.

I already lost tenthousands of MPG just for doing chocobo race, because the game likes to kick me in the teeth.

Buying a breeding chocobo: eight 1 star ratings. -> Trash
Buying a breeding chocobo: eight 1 star ratings. -> Trash
Buying a breeding chocobo: eight 1 star ratings. -> Trash
Buying a breeding chocobo: four 1 star ratings: let's try. -> Breeding process: all 1 stars are dominant. -> Trash
Buying a breeding chocobo: eight 1 star ratings. -> Trash
and so on...

And no, those Chocobos they seemed to have made egg & bacon out of it, exist in all pedigress, there are no better chocobos in higher pedigress. One of those eight 1 star chocobos has been a pedigree 9 chocobo. Pretty sure, they are still very nice birds, but they will never win a race.

Quote:

---

Although, truth be told, I really do think they'll lower the price at some point. Maybe even raise the reward yields by a slight amount. But the lowered price, if it happens, most likely won't be until much later in the game.

---

Fine. And why? Gold Saucer should be a fun park inside this game, not the biggest grind of all. The nice thing of all mini games inside all FF games has been, that they let you do something else. But grinding is grinding, there is no difference in killing monsters, fishing or playing Triple Triad, if you have to do it 10000 times. It all becomes mindless clicking. And in the end, the program just laughes at you and wastes another 3-4 hours of TT grind in 2 seconds, like above. Just because you want to play the only real long term thing in Gold Saucer...

So why wait? Why not reward all players now, why not make EVERYTHING fun and rewarding to play. It's not as if those vanity items or mounts are THAT special or that you could buy super weapons or moves inside the Gold Saucer, like in FF7 (which got pretty much no RNG and by far not that grind, and THAT made it so much fun).

I really don't know, why they ruined the best parts of the original goldsaucer. Everything new (all the RNG and pretty much no way to earn MGPs) they added made it worse.

Higher rewards would mean, people would get things faster? The thing is:
Those people, who got the "right brain" for grinding, will get it anyway. And by focusing on those people, who can and do grind 24/7 and adjust the prizes to them, you are acting against the mass of your "normal" players, who don't play 24/7. Who Play 2/3 or 3/5 - and probably want to use this time in a different way, than spending it on 1000 TT games. You are ruining all the fun there could be in Gold Saucer, because it becomes pointless. There is grind, luck or just forget it after a few days. On my server, the Gold Saucer already lost many players. Sure. People look at it. See, that even for simple things they need to grind like hell, and leave, at least the Gold Saucer.

In FF7 you got great rewards for Chocobo Racing. And of course you got the arena, it was the main source for GP, on the level of lottery, but with actual gameplay and without luck, even the random buff/debuff system you could handle. It's okay (but sad), that they could not implement an arena. But then they must compensate it.

I just try to save the Gold Saucer. The way as it is, the mass of players will get bored out of it pretty quickly. Many just say: And again RNG... (and they are sounding VERY annoyed).

Quote:

---

So why wait? Why not reward all players now, why not make EVERYTHING fun and rewarding to play.

---

Amen. FFXIV has become and endless chase. There's never any time to enjoy what you just got anymore because the grind is so time consuming and frustrating that you either get fed up with that content and don't want to see it again, or it's time to grind again for whatever else comes next. The only time I ever feel like "nice, I finally got what I wanted and I can't wait to use it" is when I change glamour. Everything else is more like "it's finally over. Oh wait, there's more".


It would be ok if there weren't enough time to get everything because there is just so much to do, at least I know I'm getting way more than my money worth, but it only takes that much time because they dilute it with RNG and high prices. For the last 2 patches I've felt like they've focues more on how to stretch content for as long as possible instead of how to make it fun. People will play TT and races even after they've obtained every card and every reward. We play with real cards all the time with no reward!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DenebPunkin

A vast majority of the player base.. so the vast majority of subbers have things to do other then spend 24/7 grinding. EVEN with 24/7 grinding it will take roughly two weeks to get everything in the GS. There is a MMO grind.. and then there is SE milk you dry till you cry grind.

---

If a person wants everything soon as possible so they never have to take a step into Gold Saucer again, that is their prerogative. Doesn't seem like a fun way to go about it, but whatever, their choice.

To suggest that merely because people have jobs and family means that the majority of us want instant gratification is however, very naive. Don't speak for us as if you know what all of us want out of the game. Many of us are satisfied to earn what we can given the time we have available to us.

When 2.5 came out, I was finally able to say "I have no reasonable way to stay ahead of all of the content they have implemented." The warm and fuzzy feeling I got from saying that was truly satisfying, I am grateful FFXIV has become a game that people can play hardcore and still only have accessed the tip of the iceberg.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RobinRethiel

Actually, only bad MMO's are grindy, and I don't really want FF14 to become a bad MMO. Games should be fun, not mind-numbing.

---

Which MMO have you played that isn't grindy? At the heart of every MMO is a grind; if there wasn't, you'd finish all the content in a month and move on to a different game. True FF14's grind is moderately high, but the complaints should be made toward all content of the game, not just gold saucer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duuude007

When 2.5 came out, I was finally able to say "I have no reasonable way to stay ahead of all of the content they have implemented." The warm and fuzzy feeling I got from saying that was truly satisfying, I am grateful FFXIV has become a game that people can play hardcore and still only have accessed the tip of the iceberg.

---

All I could think was "what's the point of paying a sub for stuff I won't ever have the time to do because of the amount of grinding required?"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moqi

All I could think was "what's the point of paying a sub for stuff I won't ever have the time to do because of the amount of grinding required?"

---

Considering your lodestone progress, you must have 2 jobs and 2 kids to not have enough time for what I can do (about twice as much from the looks of it)..

Either that or all of your time is eaten up by complaining about how you don't have enough time. ;)

Or maybe I realized that the content is not worth the grind.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moqi

Or maybe I realized that the content is not worth the grind.

---

Interesting how you just admitted that you play half as much as me, and based on your tone you probably have a great deal more free time to play the game than someone like me.

Which means the second possibility I suggested sounds even more likely.

Quote:

---

Either that or all of your time is eaten up by complaining about how you don't have enough time. :D

---

No. It means grinding isn't fun, so I am not doing anything that involves it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moqi

No. It means grinding isn't fun, so I am not doing anything that involves it.

---

...Which means you aren't playing at all?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Moqi

No. It means grinding isn't fun, so I am not doing anything that involves it.

---

Sounds like MMO's aren't your type of game then....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Duuude007

...Which means you aren't playing at all?

---

Playing = doing your dungeons, sometimes a raid, leveling up, gaining your equipment.

Grinding = killing 5000 monster to get a single item, playing 10000 TT to gain one mount, fishing 10000 times to get one achievement.

Grinding is excessive. It's not playing anymore. It's working at a virtual production line.

Quote:

---

Sounds like MMO's aren't your type of game then....

---

No good MMO needs grinding. No single one. It's bad game design to buy time, nothing else. Good game design gives you fun, so you WANT to play something over and over again. The mechanic of grinding reduces a player to the level of a donkey, following a carrot. The donkey does not want to pull the cart (gameplay), he wants the carrot (loot).

Not all grinds are created equal. I prefer my grind with a dash of variety added to it.

Some grinds, even in this game, are just designed better than others (i.e. more engaging). In my opinion, the current GS grind (which I cannot see lasting too far past the next update) is not one of them.