So I was kicked from Halatali today

I give a lot of credit to healers, 9/10 get my commendation (unless they are cocky/rude lol)

Personally I think IF a healer is confident to dps+heal then that's a bonus and excellent. They know what they can handle,let them decide.

Saving 3 min of a run is not game changing. Now wipes due to lack of healing is quite another and reason to complain, but not to simply save a couple minutes.

IF, for whatever reason, they are not comfy doing so then imo that's 100% ok as well. Their role is to heal... period.
I would never say yes to a vote kick for the reason the op was kicked for...ever.

I'm sorry you went through that. You should only DPS if you're comfortable and your party allows it. But if you couldn't for some reason it's not your fault.

A new player requires us to watch over them. They're going to get hit / screw up somewhere and whether it hurts them or the party we have to cover for it. There's a lot of things that come up where we can't really do the DPS thing. I hope you get better parties later.

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Originally Posted by Melondra

You are a healer it is not your job to DPS they are just being rude. The reason you have DPS capability is so you can run some things by yourself, such as leaves etc. In a party your primary job is to heal.

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As someone who mained WHM for 10 months I can tell you that you have the ability to DPS because there are times where your dps is valuable to the group or in down time. If your tank is barely taking damage then DPS. If the tank pulls huge mobs then dps. There's a fine balance between Cleric Stance and healing and you have to learn how to dance between Stances effectively. I've had to Holy Spam on Shiva EX many times because the DPS weren't downing the adds fast enough. Without my Holy it would have been non-stop wipes. I have Shroud of Saints for MP regeneration if needed to recover from heavy DPSing and if there's a Bard in the group I'm perfectly set.

If health bars are full and regen's on the tank, pop into cleric and stone or holy a few times.
Is it really that hard?
I'd never kick anybody for not DPSing as a healer, but like.. I mean..
Really? You're just going to stand there?

Healer's job is to heal. DPS is mostly for when you do solo content - I mean you are called a healer for a reason.......................................

Cleric stance is for try hards and nerds who need to get a life.

ABC.

Always Be Casting.

If it's not a heal, make it a Stone/Stone II/Aero/etc. Unless you are chaining cures back to back, there's no real reason not to Cleric Stance for even just one or two GCDs. Helping kill things faster means less healing you'll have to do, and that will help everyone else as well (less to mitigate, less damage needed to kill thing). At low levels, it's definitely helpful to DPS but certainly not needed - kicking a healer for not using Cleric in Halatali of all places is just silly. Stance dancing, however, is a good habit to get into - the key is knowing when you're safe to and when you're not.

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Originally Posted by platorepublic

Cleric stance is for try hards and nerds who need to get a life.

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lmao

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Originally Posted by platorepublic

Healer's job is to heal. DPS is mostly for when you do solo content - I mean you are called a healer for a reason.......................................

Cleric stance is for try hards and nerds who need to get a life.

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Let's imagine someone who has a job, wife, kids, a busy life and a couple hours a day to play FFXIV. Let's say, 2 hours.

Now, that person can cust 5 minutes off a dungeon run by dealing damage as a Healer, taking into account that each run usually takes 15-25 minutes, (Say 25, for the sake of argument), he gets a bonus dungeon by playing OPTIMALLY during 5 dungeons. He does this because he's short on time.

He has a job, wife, kids and a busy schedule, but still, he needs to get a life because he's being OPTIMAL in his job.

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Originally Posted by platorepublic

Healer's job is to heal. DPS is mostly for when you do solo content - I mean you are called a healer for a reason.......................................

Cleric stance is for try hards and nerds who need to get a life.

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Ahahahahahaha. Brutal assessment.

Not going to lie, I hate it when healers let my health dip too much, but damn if Holy spam isn't useful for burning up the trash.

Stopped reading the op at the third line to tell you that you're NOT supposed to heal in cleric stance anyway. Disable CS, heal up and get back to dpsing.

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Originally Posted by Galgarion

Ahahahahahaha. Brutal assessment.

Not going to lie, I hate it when healers let my health dip too much, but damn if Holy spam isn't useful for burning up the trash.

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I do content as a Tank as well as Heal and I hate it when I see White Mages standing there doing nothing at all during trash mob pulls. They have Holy for a reason so use it.

Dps'ing on heals takes some players longer to get use to. I started sch. at lv 50 and taught myself how to heal. It took some time to get "OK' with throwing some Dps in.
Op, just heal untill you feel ok dps'ing, at low levels no one should be kicking you for not dps'ing on heals.

"Remeber not everyone feels the same way you do" "Some of US just wanna have fun and play a GAME"

It's sad that 90% of this topic is ok with being mediocre and lazy because "it's just a game" or "healing is healer's only job" or "it's only a couple minutes saved on the whole run". You are one of many things wrong with the game's community, much moreso than the so-called "elitists" who are "oppressing" you. None of these are reasons to be willfully awful.

If you truly believe that you MUST stand there like a vegetable in case someone gets a boo boo, you have zero sense of risk assessment. If you truly believe this in Halatali normal at level 50, you are lazy. Please do play a job that isn't healer if you feel this is too much of a burden on your skill level. Everyone will thank you for it and hopefully you'll be better at your new endeavor.

It's bad enough that run of the mill DPS can't be held to any kind of standard because parsers are the devil and nobody can take any criticism without crying "elitist". Don't need to add your ilk to it.

I approve of that party's willingness to not tolerate another player's laziness. I deplore the OP's rationale that they did nothing worthy of criticism. Healing is not such a care-intensive job. The only way you learn your limits is to push them. OP and many babysitters in this thread have never pushed so much as a piece of paper.

just let loose a sigh of relief, remember not all players are that stupid, and move on to the next one

i am not sure what good it will do to report someone for abusing vote kick, but it really can't hurt you to file a report either

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Originally Posted by Anubis_Nephthys

While I don't agree that you should have been kicked, you should have helped damage.
nothing in that, and most pre-50 dungeons, is going to take you by suprise.

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it is a reality that most players will never play at the highest level. I think it is incredibly tight-assed of someone to demand every player maximize their role to it's full potential, because it's an extremely unrealistic expectation.

Your aim should be to be flexible rather than inflexible. You are going to have a hard time trying to hammer a square peg into a round hole.

I mean, you can ask for one thing... But it doesn't stop a player from asking another. I've been abandoned by tanks complaining about me doing DPS while they were in no danger of dying. And we also did every boss up to the last one in Dzemael Darkhold without a tank.

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

It's sad that 90% of this topic is ok with being mediocre and lazy because "it's just a game" or "healing is healer's only job" or "it's only a couple minutes saved on the whole run". You are one of many things wrong with the game's community, much moreso than the so-called "elitists" who are "oppressing" you. None of these are reasons to be willfully awful.If you truly believe that you MUST stand there like a vegetable in case someone gets a boo boo, you have zero sense of risk assessment. If you truly believe this in Halatali normal at level 50, you are lazy. Please do play a job that isn't healer if you feel this is too much of a burden on your skill level. Everyone will thank you for it and hopefully you'll be better at your new endeavor.

It's bad enough that run of the mill DPS can't be held to any kind of standard because parsers are the devil and nobody can take any criticism without crying "elitist". Don't need to add your ilk to it.

I approve of that party's willingness to not tolerate another player's laziness. I deplore the OP's rationale that they did nothing worthy of criticism. Healing is not such a care-intensive job. The only way you learn your limits is to push them. OP and many babysitters in this thread have never pushed so much as a piece of paper.

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I think part of the problem is this strange mass expectation that healers are there to recover people from virtually any mistake.

If my party or alliance members get themselves killed by playing poorly, I won't sweat it at all. Sure, I will make every reasonable effort to prevent unnecessary deaths, but I won't stand around wasting my time on the off-chance that someone might eat avoidable damage. If they are so bad that I have to follow them around keeping them topped off in order to prevent them from dying, then their contribution to the fight is most likely not worth preserving. Better to leave them dead so that they can't be targeted by mechanics and potentially take others down with them.

Besides, a good healer is worth quite a bit more than a bad DPS in terms of overall raid damage and utility. All the gear in the world doesn't automatically make a DPS good at their job, and a strong healer can surpass the damage output of an unskilled DPS in casual content all while keeping the party healthy.

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

... and nobody can take any criticism without crying "elitist". Don't need to add your ilk to it. I approve of that party's willingness to not tolerate another player's laziness. I deplore the OP's rationale that they did nothing worthy of criticism.

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OP's position is not about laziness but about skill. OP did not feel comfortable DPSing.
OP's complaint was not about the criticism, it was about the "penalty" imposed.
Kicking a person instead of educating that player serves no true value. But, Elitist A**holes are going to be Elitist A**holes.

Having observed your profile on LODESTONE, I will say congratulations, you are an Elite player by what you have accomplished in this game; all classes done, FCoB gear, etc....
Then comparing it to OPs profile, 2 lv50, and only a couple of items above i110.
Your experience level compared to OPs is significantly different. You have accrued significantly more skill through you obvious time and dedication to the game. Your judgement is "Elitist" simply because you are expecting OPs playing skill to rival how you would play in that situation.

If you are constantly healing, then ok, it was a retarded kick.

If you are standing around doing nothing 80% of the time, you should make yourself more useful.

But I still wouldn't kick you for it.

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Originally Posted by ChameleonMS

OP's position is not about laziness but about skill. OP did not feel comfortable DPSing.
OP's complaint was not about the criticism, it was about the "penalty" imposed.
Kicking a person instead of educating that player serves no true value. But, Elitist A**holes are going to be Elitist A**holes.

Having observed your profile on LODESTONE, I will say congratulations, you are an Elite player by what you have accomplished in this game; all classes done, FCoB gear, etc....
Then comparing it to OPs profile, 2 lv50, and only a couple of items above i110.
Your experience level compared to OPs is significantly different. You have accrued significantly more skill through you obvious time and dedication to the game. Your judgement is "Elitist" simply because you are expecting OPs playing skill to rival how you would play in that situation.

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Why is my stance invalid just because I'm on top of the game? Why is it not applicable just because others are not where I am? It's the same advice: try. Do something. Fail so that you know how to succeed. This is how DPS maximize DPS, how tanks maximize DPS, and healers maximize DPS + minimize excess healing.

Healers are some of the laziest and lowest performing players in this game at every level of play, including Coil. The fact that most wait for healing to be needed is seriously not a good thing in any case because anything that needs to be healed should be prehealed for the most part. This is something you don't learn sitting on your thumbs. You try this "wait and heal" thing in Coil and you will let people die all day.

This is a Mr Miyagi thing, wax on wax off. If you DPS hard enough and keep people alive, you learned how little you need to heal and the gaps you can fill with damage/something. If you let them die because you got too tunnel visioned, you learned a limit. You can work to that limit or try to optimize so that it doesn't cause another death. You never learn this limit unless you try. You can apply this directly to an endgame encounter by instead using those gaps for MP generation. Then when you're comfortable enough with THAT burden, you can DPS again.

You can replace the word "laziness" with whatever makes you feel better but it is what it is. A lack of skill is perfectly fixable. A lack of effort is generally not.

when im tanking dungeons which seems to be quite often I totally expect the healer to keep the group alive first, with me being priority.

however the majority of dungeons easily allow for healers to dps if they are comfortable in doing so but I don't see it as mandatory, but seriously if you have enough time for 1 gdc or more to go by without having to worry then why not dps.?

I can understand being more cautious with new people as op said though and I believe it is a judgement call on whatever class any given player is playing at the time in what is the best course of action in any given situation.

we all have roles to play and they should be our primary concern, but upping your game and pushing yourself should also be a personal challenge at all times.

Q: Why do people not play healers?
A: because of people like SeraviEdalborez
Just kidding :p

Excellent healers know how to DPS and heal - which is basically what Seravi is talking about.
You'll have to constantly push yourselves to improve if you want to get there.

However, I feel that it is unfair for people to expect all healers to be able to do both?
My stance is that a healers job is to heal. But if you can heal and DPS, that's an added bonus to the group.
Perhaps I have lower expectations of my pug healers?

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Originally Posted by Milleus

Excellent healers know how to DPS and heal - which is basically what Seravi is talking about.
You'll have to constantly push yourselves to improve if you want to get there.

However, I feel that it is unfair for people to expect all healers to be able to do both?
My stance is that a healers job is to heal. But if you can heal and DPS, that's an added bonus to the group.
Perhaps I have lower expectations of my pug healers?

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I have lower expectations of pug healers. Heck pug everything. I do not expect pugs to be playing as hard as possible. I expect about 70-90% success at the mechanics :D

Improving does tend to take some self pushing sure, but I don't demand that of others in a pug run.

Healers are the only group members for whom it's commonly seen as acceptable to spend your majority of time being completely useless to the group (either by spamming heals on party members who don't need them or simply standing still doing nothing). If a DD or tank would do the same the kick would have been seen as justified.

I have never kicked a healer who only heals, and I probably never will, but with a lot of healing experience from all the dungeons seeing someone do that is painful. At least I can now share the pain with my partner who has taken to leveling SCH and noticed he usually doesn't have to cast a single heal during the whole dungeons and ends up as the top DPS in low level dungeons way too often (while everyone else stays alive, of course).

Only 1000 characters to respond (nooby restriction maybe) but I just wanted to add a bit of feedback.

I think a lot of players are taking two extremes. You have Seravi saying I need to do more and stop being lazy, and she is correct, but at the same time she's not understanding that I am a month into the game. I have had access to the Holy spell for all of a week or two. Not only that but I am playing dungeons with OTHER players who are just as inexperienced as myself. Sometimes it goes fine and I could have DPS'ed, but than I remember how 5 minutes ago my team all but myself wiped on one single bomb detonation and I think "Maybe I'll play it safe".

When I play the level 50 content right now, I do make full use of Cleric Stance. I am still getting used to using multiple ability bars, my gear is not end-game. In the Morbol beds I use Holy as long as Regen is keeping the tank from dying, against bosses I use Medica II and Regen so I can get my aeros and a few Stone II out.

To add a reply to Cynfael though, he makes valid points as well. I have had two weeks experience with the healer role and yet I am nigh condemned to hell for letting a party member die while at the same time being heavily criticized for "standing still". There needs to be a little more understanding of players who are starting out with no experience.

Personally, my only other MMORPG I have played is RuneScape, and if you know what that is you know I haven't really played an MMORPG before with any significant roles to learn. I feel like, being two weeks into the healer experience, the fact that I can run some of the expert level dungeons for the first time without dying to the many boss mechanics while still, on occasion, helping to DPS a little bit is pretty decent progress to be made.

EDIT: I just wanted to throw this out there that another problem with the lack of tolerance is you will get situations like the thread by Satori that was just put up recently. Older players, you have got to understand, we simply can't KNOW everything in the first month or even first few months of the game. If there's anything to be gleaned from my 9-10 years of playing RuneScape, it's that massive games take a lot of time to learn and perfect. A fresh level 50 healer is not going to know just when and how to DPS. A player running the Praetorium for the first time is not going to understand why the heck nobody is waiting for him (and the older players seem to have forgotten that this is, in fact, the final boss for an epic story). What is small and insignificant to a player with all their classes at level 50 is going to seem like a very daunting task for someone who just acquired their first 50 class and who is wearing the gear they got from doing so.

Players who are new to their role and job definitely need to be cut some slack and most importantly support and advice. There's also a difference between trying / learning and being lazy.

So then am I trying? Or am I being lazy? Furthermore, who should be the one to decide? Myself? Or the other players?

I believe the ideal situation would be for anybody that is new to be able to try and fail without risk if being kicked/beat down for that as well. It's something that takes cooperation and input on both ends, I believe, just like any learning experience. You have to be pushed a little, and the ones teaching have to know when to stop pushing and let you grow strong enough for the next push.

I do know one thing though, and that's that I always received the most positive feedback when I played how I was comfortable doing so (some days DPS'ing to help, others healing only because the DPS were reliable with their damage). I ran Halatali again today with a player new to tanking and a mage with green leaves, and the tank had no idea what he was doing whatsoever. I've never tanked before but I explained to him that he needed to pay close attention to the icons indicating his aggro level with adds, that he needed to not focus only on one add and let the DPS take care of the killing, and that he needed to use abilities such as Flash to keep aggro. After I explained that, he did great and and we cleared with no further issues.

I could have told him to keep the aggro on him and stop being worthless, and I could have told the newbie to vote-kick him so that we could beat the dungeon easier. I did not, though, and we got through quite alright. I like to think as he gets further along, other tanks with much more experience than myself will be welcoming to him in an area he is still growing comfortable with. Certainly a blunt kick would have helped no one.

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Originally Posted by Skyhunter

About 10 minutes in, one of the DPS tells me to stop being worthless and help DPS or I'm going to get kicked.

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Main class WHM here.
As many say: Healing is your Priority DPS is not. Your job is to keep people alive to the best of your abilities, end of discussion.

Can you deal some extra DPS? Yes. Should you? Preferably. It is by no means a requirement or a must.

I myself only stance dance when comfortable. With a lot of healing experience under my belt and know how of instances it becomes quite predictable when people start to take damage and thus you can react accordingly.

I will not however immediately jump into cleric stance. I'll watch them do a few thrash mob groups to see how the tank is, how squishy everyone is. How big are my heals etc. This will let me make an accurate assessment of the group and if it is viable Responsible to be DPSing.

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Originally Posted by Nerael

Main class WHM here.
As many say: Healing is your Priority DPS is not. Your job is to keep people alive to the best of your abilities, end of discussion.

Can you deal some extra DPS? Yes. Should you? Preferably. It is by no means a requirement or a must.

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And see this is a helpful response. Absolutely, I should do all I can. However, reasonably, having just started the game in February and played up to and through The Praetorium as a DPS, my experience as a healer is very little and has room to improve. But I can't become as good as a player who has been at this for a year in simply a week or two. It's not really a logical assumption and, to be honest, if I COULD become that good that fast, than I should either go and get a job as a professional game player, or go find a game that has a real challenge to it. However, that is not the case with this game, it takes time to practice all the tricks of the trade.

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Originally Posted by Skyhunter

So then am I trying? Or am I being lazy? Furthermore, who should be the one to decide? Myself? Or the other players?

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Usually you can see if someone is trying or being lazy. For example, yesterday in Tamtara easy I had a SCH who put someone on follow, said "afk making coffee", let fairy do all the healing and commented how he loves low level dungeons as SCH. This guy was not trying. The other day I had a WHM in Halatali easy who during the first boss (Fire elemental thing) shouted to the 2 melee DDs to run and kill the adds while tank wasn't taking any damage and she could have easily killed them one-shotting with cleric-stance Aero. She wasn't really trying either (in fact I felt she was telling us to do her job and causing the fight last longer than it should have). In other situations I've seen healers who mostly just heal but do throw occasional Aeros (even if without CS) when there's only 1-2 monsters left and everyone is in good health. Those are the new people who are learning and trying, although not playing optimally.

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Originally Posted by Skyhunter

Certainly a blunt kick would have helped no one.

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I don't agree with blunt kicks in situations where someone is not just doing well. And I certainly don't agree with you being kicked from your run, based on your description on the situation. Sub-optimal or even bad play is not a reason for kick in DF dungeon group as long as the person isn't clearly trolling everyone or being completely detrimental to the group (for example a DD who just runs ahead pulling everything to the group killing everyone over and over).

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

Why is my stance invalid just because I'm on top of the game? Why is it not applicable just because others are not where I am? It's the same advice: try. Do something. Fail so that you know how to succeed. This is how DPS maximize DPS, how tanks maximize DPS, and healers maximize DPS + minimize excess healing.
You can replace the word "laziness" with whatever makes you feel better but it is what it is. A lack of skill is perfectly fixable. A lack of effort is generally not.

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Invalid, no, that is your opinion and you are entitled to it; IMO, it is excessive. Your expectation of player behaviour is slanted toward cream of the crop skill/behaviour. Life as whole is not at the cream of the crop. Expecting every player to play at the cream of the crop level an unreasonable expectation for society.

Let me propose a situations to you:
You are a team leader of 6 people.
Members 1-4 are highly skilled and competent.
Member 5 is moderately skilled and very dedicated.
Member 6 is poorly skilled and unsure of himself.

Are you going to ?
1. Educate and encourage members 5 and 6.
2. Educate and encourage member 6 and fire member 5.
3. Educate and encourage member 5 and fire member 6.
4. Fire members 5 and 6.

A consequence of firing a worker is loss of productivity, and time spent replacing that worker.
Applying this analogy back to the described instance OP talked about, he was member 5 and got fired. Would you also fire member 5? Or would you choose another option?
You might attempt to argue that he was given a chance to improve before he was fired, the stated warning he was given. There definitely was no encouragement though, it was definitely a threat.

The reason you and players that share you opinion will find so much flak is because it the opinion without compassion and patience. Two desirable qualities in a person according to society.

DPSing is not your main roll, you're a WHM not a BLM :) but dancing the stance dance earns you extra brownie points and (usually) my com.

DPS when you feel comfortable, don't DPS if you don't trust the tank, don't feel you have the MP or have the worlds most suicidal party members. I always try to DPS but that being said if I don't I'll apologise to the party before the btching starts, usually calms people down before they get pent up rage.

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Originally Posted by Skyhunter

Snip

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1. You can edit your own posts to circumvent the character limit :)

2. You come across as an intelligent player who does want to improve. Unfortunately there indeed will be times when your party pigeonholes you by playing poorly, forcing you to sit on your GCDs in case they all derp horribly and try to wipe you. It's hard to be a shining star as a healer when your party holds you back. At least in alliance raids you can let the bad ones die and keep going.

3. People keep saying that healer DPS is nice, but not required; I would certainly consider it a requirement to DPS whenever reasonable to do so. As a new player I remember getting over my initial hesitation to use CS in parties at all, and again learning how to do it on WHM. It's a process, and it's not possible to be truly good at the healer role in this game until a player learns ALL aspects of it.

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Originally Posted by Galgarion

That has got to be the most STUPID reason to kick someone that I've heard of in a while. If the dps was so slow that they needed a boost from the healer in Halitali, then what more can be said? You didn't get votekicked so much as the universe saw fit to deliver you from the presence of two morons and a nub tank. Sounds like a get-out-of-fail card to me.

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So much this. Seriously, the DPS in there should just be happy they got a healer that isn't a complete moron. The funny part is, as a healer going into low level dungeons you can requeue and get into another instance almost immediately. They either had to rustle up a friend to JIP or they sat there waiting 15 minutes for another healer to join, all because they didn't like that you weren't comfortable DPS'ing. Kudos for shooting yourself in the foot.

With that said, everything up until I'd say Brayflox normal is forgiving enough that the DPS can take a few licks if they pull hate off the tank, so you don't have to worry about the party being terribly fragile. They're made like that so people can learn the basic mechanics of their role (keeping aggro, healing, etc) without repeatedly dying.

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Originally Posted by Skyhunter

I ignored the guy and got kicked.

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I think this has more to do with it than whether or not you did dps. If you laid out your reasons to your party they might've understood, or at least disagreeably tolerated your decision. Your story sounds reasonable since we're hearing the whole thing, but your party was not privy to your thoughts. All they saw was a healer that they felt wasn't optimizing, and refused to respond to advice. Regardless of how your playing your job, one of the most annoying things you can possibly do is flat out ignore someone.
So I'll just give the same cheesy advice as usual: communicate. It's cheesy because everyone gives that advice for any problem that comes up, but people give that advice so often because usually it works.

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Originally Posted by Skyhunter

When I play the level 50 content right now, I do make full use of Cleric Stance. I am still getting used to using multiple ability bars, my gear is not end-game. In the Morbol beds I use Holy as long as Regen is keeping the tank from dying, against bosses I use Medica II and Regen so I can get my aeros and a few Stone II out.

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Lack of DPS due to being unsure about yourself, fine. But it's Halatali Normal. Dungeons pre-Brayflox you can AFK half the run and it's very unlikely anyone will die. It's excessively babying and something anyone should be able to pick up on very quickly.

Reassuring responses to your situation are fine but they really need to take circumstances into consideration. It's paradoxical that you try to throw damage on in 50 dungeons but not a 20 dungeon which is magnitudes easier.

Being new isn't exactly being lazy. It's a lack of knowledge. But as I said before it's not something you improve by just watching bars go up and down. I'm not trying to single you out as "what's wrong with healers", but your circumstances are not unique to you even among "experienced" healers who think they are fulfilling the minimum quota of their job just by making sure nobody dies. It's not a wrong stance but it's certainly not the best one could do.

The OP is talking pre 50 content here. Holy is irrelevant bc he doesn't have access. I love when my FC running mate is "Holy Bombing" my huge trash pulls bc yes, it does speed it up. Pre 50 though? We're talking measly dps here. Anything under WP NM I wouldn't expect a healer to waste the time switching stances and adding damage. I apologize to you, OP, from all of us that you got a party full of Mongrels who kicked you for doing your job.

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

The OP is talking pre 50 content here. Holy is irrelevant bc he doesn't have access.

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Quoting a reply by OP. It is relevant.

Again, why does everyone focus on the toxicity and not how to improve oneself irregardless of it?

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

Quoting a reply by OP. It is relevant.

Again, why does everyone focus on the toxicity and not how to improve oneself irregardless of it?

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If the environment is that toxic then the game is not worth playing.
If its just a few players they can be ignored.
Improving ones own play does not stop toxicity, Toxic players will find another reason to be toxic. Someone who says something like "stop being worthless and help DPS or you're going to get kicked" is Toxic.

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Anything under WP NM I wouldn't expect a healer to waste the time switching stances and adding damage.

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Yeah, it's completely useless and shaves... a minute on the entire run at best. I only DPS because I would be bored otherwise, but my contribution is so insignificant. All this talk about efficiency and min maxing is so laughable when you can throw is Aero and and a couple of Stone.

I did daily low roulette on healer for a few months. There were plenty of runs where I was top DPS on a healer. :(

(if the DPS are competent/decently geared, then yeah, healer output is somewhat low. Then again, low level scholar is essentially an arcanist/summoner without an egi out).

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Originally Posted by Moqi

Yeah, it's completely useless and shaves... a minute on the entire run at best. I only DPS because I would be bored otherwise, but my contribution is so insignificant. All this talk about efficiency and min maxing is so laughable when you can throw is Aero and and a couple of Stone.

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Still, for WHM it's preferable to doing nothing.

For SCH it's very significant since constant SCH damage is worth at least half an extra player (more if compared to mediocre or bad DPS).