BLM is still too OP

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Originally Posted by ServerCollaps

they could encourage more 8 vs 8 by popping more nodes at the temple/market over the duration of the fight

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That's a solution that I proposed in another thread. Make the nodes on the sides spawn like 2 or 3 times during slaughter rather than just once. Such an uncomplicated fix yet we'll probably just be waiting till Heavensward for any changes or improvements to PvP.

Make it so cometeor causes friendly fire? And self destruct at that :v

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Originally Posted by Houston009

BLM: Damage Dealt +10%, Physical Vulnerability -10%
Archer: Nothing

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Lol you think that 10% buff is relevant when your talking 10 cross class skill bursts? 45 Blm here, and Archers<Brds anyday. Archers and Marauders(even Gladiators to some extent) are amazing PVP adepts. I run Marauder outside my pvp premade, and even 1-1 with a warrior, I always come out on top. Swifcast Stoneskin- OP. 3 dots , 2 stuns, beserk+raging strikes bursts, anyway, I fear archers more than bards when Im a caster

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Originally Posted by Shane_Leonhart

I'll just post the info and hopefully that'll be that. But yeah, Jobs > Classes in pvp.

http://i.imgur.com/xHFsNfD.png

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I smell Confirmation Bias! Believe me, those percentages don't matter for most players. Marauder is a better Healer protector in Secure than a Warrior, also a better caster, range killer. don't let a few percentages and a table make you think that your total untested statement( at least in your case) that "Jobs>Classes" is true whatsoever.

a table showing exact statistics is not confirmation bias, lol.

classes have some more flexibility than jobs with certain skills but getting 10% more dmg and 10% more defense overall is really powerful and most of the time better.

if you beat warriors in pvp it's not cause marauder is better, it's because you were better than the player you were fighting. the irony is that your anecdotal experiences are the confirmation bias, here.

The statement is confirmation Bias. The table shows me a nothing to prove said statement. Do you think a flat 10% increase to damage is better than being able to utilize Raging strikes (20%) increase for bursts? Same with Gladiators. that I can use straight shot to increase my crit by 10%, combo'ed with internal release, while I need 5 stacks of rage to get that same effect? that your 20% damage resist pales in comparison to my ability to Thrill of Battle>Swiftcast>Stoneskin on a 1 minute CD? Again, those bonuses are null when facing someone with appropriate cross class skills and the knowledge to use them. So to say Jobs> Classes based on some % is just amateur and "myside bias".

Jobs are better than classes man sorry.

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Originally Posted by DividedSky

Jobs are better than classes man sorry.

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Confirmation Bias in a nutshell

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

Lol you think that 10% buff is relevant when your talking 10 cross class skill bursts? 45 Blm here, and Archers<Brds anyday. Archers and Marauders(even Gladiators to some extent) are amazing PVP adepts. I run Marauder outside my pvp premade, and even 1-1 with a warrior, I always come out on top. Swifcast Stoneskin- OP. 3 dots , 2 stuns, beserk+raging strikes bursts, anyway, I fear archers more than bards when Im a caster

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Oh you're a rank 45 BLM, omg I'm a rank 45 (insert any job here).

You're aware the reason why MRD is relevant is because they get cross class skills from ARC/LNC/PUG something Bard already has access to. ARC gets 10 cross class skills and out of them they only get one move that contributes to their burst that BRD doesn't have, which is Mercy Stroke. The rest are mainly support, low self-heals, and a dot Fracture. On top of already doing less damage than BRD, they have 20 DEX less than them which is about 2 weapon damage worth of DEX.

SC Stoneskin is OP dude, don't just group that into "support" and internal realease/ mercy stroke are both huge for bursting down a target. If your logic sticks, explain why, as a caster, I have more trouble against an archerthan a bard?

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

SC Stoneskin is OP dude, don't just group that into "support" and internal realease/ mercy stroke are both huge for bursting down a target. If your logic sticks, explain why, as a caster, I have more trouble against an archerthan a bard?

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I'm referring to ARC btw, just so you know. I already know MRD is good.

Stoneskin on an ARC is like a BLM physicking themselves. BRD already gets internal release. Mercy stroke and everything else you are doing as ARC is already doing less damage, so meh.

And to your question about You Vs ARC/BRD, there is a simple answer to that.

Alright lol, the point of my argument is you cannot generally state that Jobs>Classes. So we can dissect each class if you like, but we'll find pros and cons everywhere. And to your simple answer comment, I see your on Balmung, i'll keep an eye out for Strag-whatever next time im in FL ;)

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

SC Stoneskin is OP dude, don't just group that into "support" and internal realease/ mercy stroke are both huge for bursting down a target. If your logic sticks, explain why, as a caster, I have more trouble against an archerthan a bard?

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Extra damage CDs should not make a blm have more "trouble" against a arc compared to bard since they have the same attack speed and same interupts etc. It was probably the players skills that made the difference which hsay nothing about the class or job itself. Jobs are better in most situations. Classes are good in very few situations but I'm sure even I could think if a few to make an argument but it would be a poor argument.

And so does everyone else lol. I always get marked immediately in PvP. You'll be no different.

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Originally Posted by Houston009

And so does everyone else lol. I always get marked immediately in PvP. You'll be no different.

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Balmung's Most Wanted, yo

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

The statement is confirmation Bias. The table shows me a nothing to prove said statement. Do you think a flat 10% increase to damage is better than being able to utilize Raging strikes (20%) increase for bursts? Same with Gladiators. that I can use straight shot to increase my crit by 10%, combo'ed with internal release, while I need 5 stacks of rage to get that same effect? that your 20% damage resist pales in comparison to my ability to Thrill of Battle>Swiftcast>Stoneskin on a 1 minute CD? Again, those bonuses are null when facing someone with appropriate cross class skills and the knowledge to use them. So to say Jobs> Classes based on some % is just amateur and "myside bias".

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10% flat is definitely not greater than cross-class burst if that is your goal. I did the math myself along with an extremely prominent pvper and we came to the conclusion that even with job buffs, a job like MRD would still be much better off as MRD if you were going for burst only. But that is the only case, and that is something more magnified in a place like wolves den. Base stat increases makes more sense in a place like slaughter where you're constantly taking and doing damage. Note that i did say "most of the time better." And again this is because a flat 10% to dmg and 10% to defense is better long-term, not only for damage but survivability. Over the course of a fight flat numbers help you out more.

Also the tables talking about stat increases, yeah people used them as examples but honestly they don't paint the whole picture. The reason why jobs end up being better than their classes are because of the actual job utility. Examples:

- Defiance and inner beast are nothing short of amazing in any situation where you are 1v1, 1v2, or 1v3.

- Spirits within, and sword oath add a ton of damage to a pld's output. Cover is infinitely useful.

- Brd has foe requiem which speaks for itself.


Again it's not about just the stat increases, which alone really are good enough. But having job utility will trump cc utility 99% of the time unless you are building for a pure burst setup.

I would like to point out that this thread is about black mages being OP in slaughter particularly when stacked not about class vs. Job

I still find it kind of annoying to see a group of nearly 15+ BLMs on the other side when I get to mid... it's like... really? >_> Though it's amusing when either side ends up in third place because somehow they think casters = wins! The cometeor stacking will only work for so long.

90% of the time the party with the most black ages wins. All they have to do is mark a target and have maybe thre blms process a firestarter and their target dies instantly. That one target dead every let's say 10 seconds of they organize and mark targets.

Black Mages are only good if they are coordinated, and they have the proper support, whether it be a tank or healers knowing how to ward/cleanse instead of going glass cannon like a melee. BLMs also think they are sneaky sitting on top of the opposing teams ramp and nuking/CCing them when they come up. I'll admit, that is really funny, especially when they get slept and someone runs over and knocks them off.

I think the real issue is caster(and group) coordination is far more powerful than the job itself. That and the lack of 8v8(v8) matches that properly fit a regulated group like wolves denny's configuration of 1 ranged/melee/tank/healer. But restricting groups to a predefined configuration would kill things altogether, and the PVP queues are terrible as it is.

ITT : People trying to get a Job nerfed because LB is overpowered

I posted this image on reddit a couple of days ago but heyo!

http://i.imgur.com/VgYIf0Q.jpg

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Originally Posted by DividedSky

Lets face it... we all know its true..... the party with the most blms wins in slaughter. Clearly something is wrong here. Cometeor needs to be 1/2 the radius or changed to single target. Even then I think they'll still be at the top of the list. Every single round its all blms and summoners at the top of the list. Even bards which have pretty decent AoE are still only doing 1/2 the damage and 1/2 the kills as summoners and blms. Melle can barely break 50-70K damage on good runs and they're KDR is almost always negative.

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well what can i say.. in secure less people played blm... its more that zerg mode "slaughter" who made it that way..

because in zerg ranged attackers have an advantage.. they dont have to move into the crowd..


and i dont think that meteor is overpowered.. as a melee dd can instant kill a player with LB I.. so..


moreover i think the "slaughter" mode is quiet unbalanced ... since its just a zerg ... and personal limit breaks are filled much too fast... i think that you gain personal LB's that fast is a much bigger problem than BLM itself.. I'd think


BLM is fine as it is.


and why Melees do less damage? they dont perform AoE attacks (single dd, single Limitbreak), they have no ranged attacks.. they have to walk to the foes in order to damage.. of course.. in a zerg they do less damage. SMN's do much damage in a total, due to AoE Damage over time... but that doesnt kill people,... so looking just at total damage numbers is completly ... (sorry)


the problem lies moreover in that zerg mode "slaughter" and the adrenaline system itself.

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Originally Posted by Raubahn

I posted this image on reddit a couple of days ago but heyo!

http://i.imgur.com/VgYIf0Q.jpg

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Thats gimped.. a BLM uses AoE "Freeze" before LB instead of sleep (which in slaughter zerg often hits just 1 player, whyever) and players already often have sleep resist on. just as a little tip ;D

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Originally Posted by Houston009

And so does everyone else lol. I always get marked immediately in PvP. You'll be no different.

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I'll be the one popping Storm Sparklers while you wait for resapwn ;)

Just remove achievements and mounts or make them buyable otherwise. PvP will be gone then anyway (it even now almost is, you can't enter arena and frontlines take forever). How many are playing them for fun?

PvP is full of bots, win traders, leechers, roulette players (since 100/40 a day in a few minutes is nice to have), who don't care and even cheaters (no, I won't link to hacks, but of course EVERY MMO got them). This just means: it's no PvP at all...

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Originally Posted by RobinRethiel

Just remove achievements and mounts or make them buyable otherwise. PvP will be gone then anyway (it even now almost is, you can't enter arena and frontlines take forever). How many are playing them for fun?

PvP is full of bots, win traders, leechers, roulette players (since 100/40 a day in a few minutes is nice to have), who don't care and even cheaters (no, I won't link to hacks, but of course EVERY MMO got them). This just means: it's no PvP at all...

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Pve has bots. kill seller/buyer/leechers aswell. Are you saying we should remove pve too aswell as all achievements related to it?

It'd be kinda fun if battle high and fever worked like blood for blood, might help even things out. Also as bad as blms and the lb are, they aren't the only ones exploiting the current system. Plenty of ninjas have been farming cheap kills at jumppads, myself being one of them.

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Originally Posted by morerancor

It'd be kinda fun if battle high and fever worked like blood for blood, might help even things out.

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This. Deal more damage and receive more damage. Why is this not a thing?