What are the differences between the Echo and having Hydaelyn's Blessing? [Spoilers?]

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

Is hard to say if the blessing of light acts like just a defence power against darkness or that it does much more than that based on what we have seen.
The first blessing we recieve I would say it acted more like a shield, it could be that this new version of the blessing we gain at the end of 3.0 its even stronger than the last one and could be that acts like a boost like you said, increasing not just our defece but own powers as well.

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Well, since the Echo is what protects us against tempering, what else makes us special other than our protection against the Dark? And that protection comes from the Blessing of Light, something that is made pretty clear by the end of Praetorium and the fact that Nabriales mentions the Ascians couldn't attack Rising Stones while we were there.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

The blessing has manifested defensively and offensively. It was the blessing that allowed us to survive Ultima as well as Midgardsormr's final attack and it warded our home from Ascian access.

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While I don't disagree about the defensive aspect of it, I don't think Midgarsormr had actually tried to attack us yet in Keeper, and I think the Blessing was Hydaelyn's warning to him that we were one of her Chosen.

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Originally Posted by Rannie

Going by how the echo is always linked with that meteor shower and it happened that day (the real meteor shower that even Thancred saw) in the crypt, I would have to say most likely so, though it could have been more at the moment when you had triggered the echo within the echo and caused it to awaken in her thus causing the meteor shower >.<

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Given that only those who awaken to the Echo see a meteor shower, I don't think Thancred ever saw one? But in the middle of the crypt scene, he does go outside and see a lot of dark clouds. Regarding Minfilia though, if I look at her Tales from the Calamity again, Louisoix specifically calls the power that she awoke to a year before her 18th birthday the Echo, so I guess nothing happened to her that day at the crypt other than being shocked by whatever she saw.

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Originally Posted by Tenkuu

Well, since the Echo is what protects us against tempering, what else makes us special other than our protection against the Dark? And that protection comes from the Blessing of Light, something that is made pretty clear by the end of Praetorium and the fact that Nabriales mentions the Ascians couldn't attack Rising Stones while we were there.

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Never said that I didnt agree.

I just said that maybe the new version of the blessing of light might have boost our strenght, not just acting as shield against darkness.

Honeslty I have a doubt that the blessing will help us this time with the warriors of darkness. They are a hole new level.

Speaking of which I wonder if the Warriors of Darkness had their blessings altered soemhow, wither by Louisoux's Flow spell or the Ascians?

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Originally Posted by Tenkuu

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yeah moose pointed that out with the tales but he does see the physical meteor shower outside the crypt


shown here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oERfGPWUOnQ

it starts about 2minutes and 55 seconds

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

Never said that I didnt agree.

I just said that maybe the new version of the blessing of light might have boost our strenght, not just acting as shield against darkness.

Honeslty I have a doubt that the blessing will help us this time with the warriors of darkness. They are a hole new level.

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I think the Blessing of Light has been what boosts our strength from the beginning tbh. And I doubt that the Blessing wouldn't help against Warriors of Darkness: after all, the only reason we're not vulnerable to the Ascians and other forms of tempering is due to this Blessing, so I would think that it makes us more qualified to fight against similarly enhanced foes. Not to say that the other Scions couldn't help though, and I'd even be disappointed if they didn't.

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Originally Posted by Morningstar1337

Speaking of which I wonder if the Warriors of Darkness had their blessings altered soemhow, wither by Louisoux's Flow spell or the Ascians?

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Since our Blessing of Light is from Hydaelyn, the Blessing of Darkness would be from Zodiark and unrelated to the Ascians specifically imo. Also, if the Ascians clearly target people with negative emotions, likely Zodiark's Chosen would also be people who had undergone so much negativity in their past that it twisted their personalities.

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Originally Posted by Rannie

yeah moose pointed that out with the tales but he does see the physical meteor shower outside the crypt


shown here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oERfGPWUOnQ

it starts about 2minutes and 55 seconds

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But that's the actual breaking of the seal when Midgarsormr dies and not just a vision from what I recall, isn't it?

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Originally Posted by Tenkuu

I think the Blessing of Light has been what boosts our strength from the beginning tbh. And I doubt that the Blessing wouldn't help against Warriors of Darkness: after all, the only reason we're not vulnerable to the Ascians and other forms of tempering is due to this Blessing, so I would think that it makes us more qualified to fight against similarly enhanced foes. Not to say that the other Scions couldn't help though, and I'd even be disappointed if they didn't.

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Yea but we saw the change that the blessing had,i cant think that it was just glamour hahahah. If the aspect of the blessing change andalso become bigger, I cannot ignore the posibility that this new blessing is more stronger.
Remember Nabriales, we didnt had the blessing. Was our own strenght that lets us defeat him.

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

Yea but we saw the change that the blessing had,i cant think that it was just glamour hahahah. If the aspect of the blessing change andalso become bigger, I cannot ignore the posibility that this new blessing is more stronger.
Remember Nabriales, we didnt had the blessing. Was our own strenght that lets us defeat him.

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Actually, about that. If you see both the Blessing of Light and the Echo as aspects of Hydaelyn, then that would explain why the Echo alone would be enough to defeat an Ascian. Aside from their own powers, the Ascians' only advantage over the common man/woman is that they can possess their bodies, and the Echo protects us as much from that as it does from tempering. When sending us off to fight Ifrit again right after the 2.0 endgame, Thancred even makes a comment that having been possessed by Lahabrea made him particularly susceptible to tempering, and lists that as a reason why he can't come with us this time around. So in short, yes, our own strength is greater than most people's, but we have an added protection with the Echo that makes it so the Blessing of Light really does only boost our powers and is not a necessity.

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Originally Posted by Tenkuu

Actually, about that. If you see both the Blessing of Light and the Echo as aspects of Hydaelyn, then that would explain why the Echo alone would be enough to defeat an Ascian. Aside from their own powers, the Ascians' only advantage over the common man/woman is that they can possess their bodies, and the Echo protects us as much from that as it does from tempering. When sending us off to fight Ifrit again right after the 2.0 endgame, Thancred even makes a comment that having been possessed by Lahabrea made him particularly susceptible to tempering, and lists that as a reason why he can't come with us this time around. So in short, yes, our own strength is greater than most people's, but we have an added protection with the Echo that makes it so the Blessing of Light really does only boost our powers and is not a necessity.

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The echo protect us from tempering, but physical damage is something different.
I'm a bit confuse, didnt you said that the blessing protect us against darkness?

I have a theory that only people who collected a complete set of Crystals of Light can then have the Hydaelyn's Blessing. Prior to that the more we collect the stronger our connection to Hydaelyn becomes.

The echo is capable of doing a lot more than just preventing tempering as we see throughout the game and what the Asciens can do.

So I do believe that the blessing is a tool to prevent Zodiark and his minions from doing stuff to us

It's been mentioned that we need alot of Aether to destroy Asciens, so maybe in the future we can actively tap into Hydaelyn's blessing and use that aether for ourselves?

If you've played through the MSQ, the nature of the Echo continues to be a mystery. I believe it's implied that the last boss of the Aetherochemical Research Facility comes about from the echo. The ability of the echo is essentially to break down the barriers of existence, hence our abliity to see into the past from other people's perspective.

The Blessing of Light seems to protect us from the Ascians, but we also saw when it protected us from the Ultima weapon. I'd say it's primay purpose is to protect people against anything that is connected to Zodiark.

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

The echo protect us from tempering, but physical damage is something different.
I'm a bit confuse, didnt you said that the blessing protect us against darkness?

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The Blessing protects us generally from the power of the Dark, not its influence. In other words, the Blessing gives us an added boost of strength so that we can match up against the Ascians. As evidenced by 2.4 with Moenbryda and then later in 3.0 though, we are almost helpless first against Nabriales, then against Igeyorhm with only a very weak Blessing restored. We still remain immune to being possessed by virtue of having the Echo but we are unable to fight back against a pure blast of dark energy. So the Echo does not protect us from physical damage. So to revise what I said, you probably couldn't beat an Ascian with the Echo alone by virtue of lacking enough Light energy to finish them off, but you could likely drive them off because the Echo would at least make them unable to possess you.

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Originally Posted by Delily

If you've played through the MSQ, the nature of the Echo continues to be a mystery. I believe it's implied that the last boss of the Aetherochemical Research Facility comes about from the echo. The ability of the echo is essentially to break down the barriers of existence, hence our abliity to see into the past from other people's perspective.

The Blessing of Light seems to protect us from the Ascians, but we also saw when it protected us from the Ultima weapon. I'd say it's primay purpose is to protect people against anything that is connected to Zodiark.

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It isn't implied, it's outright shown. But yes, the Blessing of Light is directly opposed to the dark, moreso than the Echo.

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Originally Posted by myahele

I have a theory that only people who collected a complete set of Crystals of Light can then have the Hydaelyn's Blessing. Prior to that the more we collect the stronger our connection to Hydaelyn becomes.

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If that were true, Igeyorhm would not have commented that our Blessing was partially restored when only a few of our Crystals were back to being activated. It seems to simply be a matter of having even a single Crystal to activate the Blessing, but with only one Crystal it is a weak Blessing that does not allow us to do much other than survive an Ascian's direct attack.

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The echo is capable of doing a lot more than just preventing tempering as we see throughout the game and what the Asciens can do.

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Throughout the game, what we see allowing us to do several things is the Blessing. The Echo itself, we do not use it consciously.

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So I do believe that the blessing is a tool to prevent Zodiark and his minions from doing stuff to us

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As evidenced by Igeyorhm commenting that even a weak Blessing protected us from being killed by her, then yes, it does protect us.

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It's been mentioned that we need alot of Aether to destroy Asciens, so maybe in the future we can actively tap into Hydaelyn's blessing and use that aether for ourselves?

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We already have. In Praetorium, this is what we did through our Crystals. The only reason Lahabrea was not destroyed was Thancred's dark crystal necklace, which protected him and ensured that his aether did not return to the lifestream.

Yeah, my theory is pretty much proved wrong due to Krile having the blessing, as well despite not having any crystals of light.

Though I suppose amongst echo wielders only a small few are truly favored by Hydaelyn enough to protect with her Blessing.

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Originally Posted by Tenkuu

The Blessing protects us generally from the power of the Dark, not its influence. In other words, the Blessing gives us an added boost of strength so that we can match up against the Ascians. As evidenced by 2.4 with Moenbryda and then later in 3.0 though, we are almost helpless first against Nabriales, then against Igeyorhm with only a very weak Blessing restored.

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The only problem is we beat Nabriales withouth the Blessing of light. Igeyorhm didnt tried to hurt us, just stop us, on that time she sence we were recovering the blessing.

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

The only problem is we beat Nabriales withouth the Blessing of light. Igeyorhm didnt tried to hurt us, just stop us, on that time she sence we were recovering the blessing.

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That's not what I meant. We beat Nabriales in combat, but as far as actually killing him, afterward with Moenbryda and Minfilia, we were helpless. We had no extra juice to add to that beam of Light and he would have likely beaten if not killed us. You don't actually know what Igeyorhm tried to do, she might well have wished to take advantage of our helplessness to try to get rid of us for good. Either way, the fact remains that we were helpless against a pure blast of darkness aimed at us. She only knew we were recovering the Blessing after having attacked us.

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Originally Posted by Tenkuu

That's not what I meant. We beat Nabriales in combat, but as far as actually killing him, afterward with Moenbryda and Minfilia, we were helpless. We had no extra juice to add to that beam of Light and he would have likely beaten if not killed us. You don't actually know what Igeyorhm tried to do, she might well have wished to take advantage of our helplessness to try to get rid of us for good. Either way, the fact remains that we were helpless against a pure blast of darkness aimed at us. She only knew we were recovering the Blessing after having attacked us.

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Im more confuse now, are we talking about our defences and how we fight Ascians? Or are we talking about blade of light ( the only way to kill an ascian ) ?
Why you said that we were helpless to fight Nabriales withouth the blessing, and now you say that we couldnt destroy him withouth Moen's sacrifice ?

As fas as I saw, having the blessing of light doesnt not give us the power to destroy an Ascian ( yet ), we still need sertain elements to do it. On 3.0 was Nidhoog's eye like an example.

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

Im more confuse now, are we talking about our defences and how we fight Ascians? Or are we talking about blade of light ( the only way to kill an ascian ) ?
Why you said that we were helpless to fight Nabriales withouth the blessing, and now you say that we couldnt destroy him withouth Moen's sacrifice ?

As fas as I saw, having the blessing of light doesnt not give us the power to destroy an Ascian ( yet ), we still need sertain elements to do it. On 3.0 was Nidhoog's eye like an example.

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I'm not sure which part you're confused by. If Ascians actually fight us with their abilities, we can fight back with only the Echo, as against Nabriales in the Chrysalis, but if they throw a beam of pure darkness at us, our only defense is having the Blessing of Light. If like with Moenbryda and Minfilia we were already on the offensive and had a beam of Light going, we could fight back without the Blessing (ie Light that came from another source than the Blessing), but without it, we were helpless. We could contribute nothing from ourselves without the Blessing. So yes, we would not have been able to kill Nabriales without Moenbryda. Also, Nidhogg can't be used as an example because his power (and his Eye's) is neither Light nor Dark. With the Eye, it was merely an amount of power (aether) that was sufficient to destroy an Ascian soul.

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Originally Posted by myahele

Yeah, my theory is pretty much proved wrong due to Krile having the blessing, as well despite not having any crystals of light.

Though I suppose amongst echo wielders only a small few are truly favored by Hydaelyn enough to protect with her Blessing.

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I think those with the Blessing are those who have acquired at least one Crystal, but not necessarily more. I think both Minfilia and Krile likely have one Crystal each, just like Ysayle did, but we did not see Ysayle's until the end.

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Originally Posted by Tenkuu

I'm not sure which part you're confused by. If Ascians actually fight us with their abilities, we can fight back with only the Echo, as against Nabriales in the Chrysalis, but if they throw a beam of pure darkness at us, our only defense is having the Blessing of Light. If like with Moenbryda and Minfilia we were already on the offensive and had a beam of Light going, we could fight back without the Blessing (ie Light that came from another source than the Blessing), but without it, we were helpless. We could contribute nothing from ourselves without the Blessing. So yes, we would not have been able to kill Nabriales without Moenbryda. Also, Nidhogg can't be used as an example because his power (and his Eye's) neither Light nor Dark. With the Eye, it was merely an amount of power (aether) that was sufficient to destroy an Ascian soul.

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Honestly I cant understand you really, why are you talking about a beam of pure dark?

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Originally Posted by Tenkuu

I think those with the Blessing are those who have acquired at least one Crystal, but not necessarily more. I think both Minfilia and Krile likely have one Crystal each, just like Ysayle did, but we did not see Ysayle's until the end.

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That's certainly possible. When we got the 1st Crystal of light Hydaelyn pretty much said: "Go forth and collect the remaining crystals. Destroy darkness" and in that scene we see others, as well.

With that said, Krile's Crystal may have been used up in order to save her from Nabriale's version of Ardor. Minfilia was also stated by Elidibus in 2.1 to have survived a previous attempt at an Ardor.

Still, I wold think she would have mentioned having had a crystal when she was presented with an Ancient Crystal of Light

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Originally Posted by myahele

That's certainly possible. When we got the 1st Crystal of light Hydaelyn pretty much said: "Go forth and collect the remaining crystals. Destroy darkness" and in that scene we see others, as well.

With that said, Krile's Crystal may have been used up in order to save her from Nabriale's version of Ardor. Minfilia was also stated by Elidibus in 2.1 to have survived a previous attempt at an Ardor.

Still, I wold think she would have mentioned having had a crystal when she was presented with an Ancient Crystal of Light

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Out of curiosity, is there any particular reason why you're assuming that Nabriales had anything to do with what happened to Krile? Some hint I didn't catch perhaps? As for Minfilia, I'm pretty sure that what she survived was the Calamity.

The Calamity could not have been the Ardor that Elidibus said she survived else nobody in Carteneau would still be alive and that was mostly Louisoix's work.

The thing with Minfilia is that even as a child she seemed to have played a small role due to her echo,but we don't know too much of her history prior to escaping from Ala Mhigo at a young age. Yet even then the Ascians still plotting. I believe there Bozja Citadel in Ala Mhigo met with the same fate, but in their case they were experimenting with ancient magics like meteor.

I should probably backtrack about Nabriales causing the Isle of Val incident, but the whole thing seems like an ascien plot to me. It certainly benefits them that Students of Baldesion disappear.

My original reasoning was that by the end of 2.0 we see there are more ascien. By 2.1 we learn of Val's lost communication and at the same time Nabriales telling Elidibus he doesn't like WoL/scions meddling and then 2.2 and up he's the main Ascien we deal with. But yeah, he has not come up and said he was responsible the disappearance of Isle of Val

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Originally Posted by myahele

The Calamity could not have been the Ardor that Elidibus said she survived else nobody in Carteneau would still be alive and that was mostly Louisoix's work.

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Just how long do you think Minfilia's been alive though? She should be about 27 and Thancred about 32 if you go by the only indication we ever got about their ages, in the Tales from the Calamity. What other Ardor could there have been during both of their lifetimes than Carteneau? Also, nothing in what Elidibus said implies that he means that she's the sole survivor.

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The thing with Minfilia is that even as a child she seemed to have played a small role due to her echo,but we don't know too much of her history prior to escaping from Ala Mhigo at a young age. Yet even then the Ascians still plotting. I believe there Bozja Citadel in Ala Mhigo met with the same fate, but in their case they were experimenting with ancient magics like meteor.

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Given the revelation that Minfilia gained her Echo during the timeline shown in her Tales from the Calamity, at 17 years old, I would say this is a false assumption. Was she always fated to be one of Hydaelyn's Blessed? Probably. But then again, maybe that just depended on how she used the Echo. Also, if there are no inconsistencies, which I'm not denying is a possibility, Minfilia could have gained the Blessing after her Echo, ie sometime after Carteneau.

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I should probably backtrack about Nabriales causing the Isle of Val incident, but the whole thing seems like an ascien plot to me. It certainly benefits them that Students of Baldesion disappear.

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Well, I was just asking because it's very possible that I missed something that he might have said with regards to that. Either way, I'm inclined to think that had he had anything to do with it, he would have been unable to keep from bragging about it, especially if he thought we were gonna die anyway.

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My original reasoning was that by the end of 2.0 we see there are more ascien. By 2.1 we learn of Val's lost communication and at the same time Nabriales telling Elidibus he doesn't like WoL/scions meddling and then 2.2 and up he's the main Ascien we deal with. But yeah, he has not come up and said he was responsible the disappearance of Isle of Val

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It could be one of the other named Ascians, for instance maybe Pashtarot. That would give some extra significance to giving them names early on as well as show that some Ascians not named Elidibus are capable of actually discreet subterfuge.