SE have any plans to keep White mages from being extinct?

My numbers may be high but thanks for backing up my point.

I think most of the players out there don't care about the pro/cons of being a whm or a sch. They play their class because they enjoy it. I play SCH because I like fairies, not because it's supposedly "better" than White Mage. I'd have played WHM if my favorite weapon was a staff. I rolled a PLD because of Curtana, not because it was better or not than a warrior. People on forums are acting like they were all doing/clearing FCOB, and like there wasn't any other kind of players in this game, but when I saw the % of people clearing T13 ( 0 to 5% depending of the server?), I realized that forum's reality was faaaaar away from game's reality.
A vast majority of the population don't care if you're playing a WHM or a SCH ( or the incoming AST) as long as you're doing good with your class.

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Originally Posted by Aurora-Pendragon

I think most of the players out there don't care about the pro/cons of being a whm or a sch. They play their class because they enjoy it. I play SCH because I like fairies, not because it's supposedly "better" than White Mage.

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Sadly, not everyone who lurks the forums think like that. There's this thing I'll dub the scholar bandwagon and it comes with the elitism with it. Bandwagon? Yes, bandwagon. The good scholars know better and don't spread hate or grief against the other healing class.

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Originally Posted by Galdous

-Snip-

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Until we see exactly these four things, no one will be able to assess exactly what any healer will need "to be competitive":
-What new abilities WHM will get from 50-60
-What new abilities SCH will get from 50-60
-What AST ability list will be
-How S-E will design the Alexander bosses

The first three are very obvious. We can't make any judgement on anything until we see exactly how the three healers will interact with each other at 60. The fourth one is a bit less intuitive because how S-E designs the fight may encourage certain pairings.

For example
-Alexander Boss #1 could have mechanics that are best handled with WHM + SCH
-Alexander Boss #2 could have mechanics that are best handled with SCH + AST
-Alexander Boss #3 could have mechanics that are best handled with WHM + AST
etc...

Hell, for all we know AST will be so damn OP all raid healers will be AST + AST.

Or AST can be such a weak healer that WHM + SCH will still reign supreme.

Or the abilities given to WHM from 50-60 will be so incredible everyone will want WHM + WHM.

Until Heavensward hits the game, every form of discussion we have about AST and the interactions it'll have with the other healers is based on pure conjecture and speculation.

While it is interesting to discuss "what-ifs", especially on the spells and abilities category, spearheading your topic on doom and gloom will easily do to things:

(1) Make you look like a fool
(2) Dilute the actual discussion with "lol" posts

The best setup for any two healer situation is a WHM+SCH combo. If SE does their balance right it'll the WHM+SCH/WHM+AST/SCH+AST combos will all even out. AST has the daunting task of having to complement both WHM and SCH, and the new WHM and SCH skills need to be able to complement AST.

WHM isn't in any trouble, the thought is just silly. WHM vs SCH, WAR vs PLD, they both get the job done in each case, they just have different ways of doing it. It's all about how you prefer to play.

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Originally Posted by Gorvi

The best setup for any two healer situation is a WHM+SCH combo. If SE does their balance right it'll the WHM+SCH/WHM+AST/SCH+AST combos will all even out. AST has the daunting task of having to complement both WHM and SCH, and the new WHM and SCH skills need to be able to complement AST.

WHM isn't in any trouble, the thought is just silly. WHM vs SCH, WAR vs PLD, they both get the job done in each case, they just have different ways of doing it. It's all about how you prefer to play.

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step 1) insert large, glowly axe into enemy
step 2) repeat

:3

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Originally Posted by aisustrong

step 1) insert large, glowly axe into enemy
step 2) repeat

:3

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The amount of enjoyment I get from carrying out the above steps is why my Warrior is becoming a serious threat to my White Mage as far as being my main class. :)

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Originally Posted by Aurelinaus

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By nature Scholar is a faster healer. In the static i mentioned the WHM is slightly better geared than me, but my spell speed is higher. In the time it takes him to cast one cure II i can cast one and a half physicks. Succor is not meant to be as strong as medica because it provides the shield mitigation bonus. However, a succor with a roused last whisper easily matches the healing power of medica II in total healing. The White Mage can keep a tank full with powerful heals to combat the powerful damage coming in while Scholar kicks out fast band-aids. I would never expect my WHM partner to only heal the party because his raw power would be wasted. Whereas I can heal the party and succor as necessary and never lose mana. Its about working with each other. Why make the WHM do all the work when I can patch the group up while he keeps the tank nice and fresh.

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Originally Posted by sirlombax

By nature Scholar is a faster healer. In the static i mentioned the WHM is slightly better geared than me, but my spell speed is inherently higher because of my class.

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Misinformation post of the day

Hey SCH how are you guys doing in Odin?

Can Odin's Einherjar be silenced?
I only cleared it once (thank you PoM and Divine Seal) before I went my merry way on devouring other content.

Seems pretty unreasonable for an attack to deal 50%+ damage and applying a 30 second bleed on all 8 members and expect the healers to "deal with it".

The fight is a hard dps check. After several ass whooping I decided to parse the fight.

To my horror majority of the dps were hitting around 250 and they were i100+.

I haven't tried it with a premade or do group but will definitely try out the silence idea.

All I know so far is that 1 pld, 2 whm, 5 DPS (at least 1 melee) can easily clear it. Two WHM can easily handle the damage dished out but a SCH needs to be very careful how their pets are used and when to use what skills.

Yesh, Odin seems like a very simple, but brutal fight. All about big numbers that need to be healed up quickly and big numbers that need to be dished out. Haven't had any luck with beating it yet, one group had Odin casting Shin-Zantetsuken at like 45%. That said, shame on those who give up! :P

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Originally Posted by Galdous

I am not saying that the odd group will not have a white mage for the flavor but the way things are going both white mages and summoners will be in the same boat coming into the expansion. Why have a inferior white mage partnered up with a scholar when the new healer is looking to carry strong heals and add utility to complement the scholar and the absorb/mitigation mechanics it brings.

Yes I understand that people feel white mage is fine (when it isnt) paired up with a scholar but the only saving grace is because a white mage beats out double scholar from lack of shield stacking but that is the only reason a white mage is of any use. A scholar can prep for massive incoming damage with a properly time succor and rouse/whisper succor with sacred soil which beats out medica I II right now. Seeing a new healer is coming out will more then likely to be the death blow to white mages.

SE have any plans to give utility or some absorbs to the white mage?

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So first of all, we dont know anything about astrologians healing style (unless i have missed some major bit of news), so to say that they will make WHM extinct is a little bit of doomsaying if i ever have seen it :).

Second of all, due to not knowing anything about astrologians healing style, so we know nothing of how it will fit in to a party. We know it has a deck of cards that that will probably buff party/debuff enemies. Wether these buffs/debuffs function the same as SCH, stack with SCH's ones and are reliable to the same extent as SCH ones is not known. If they dont stack, rely on some sort of draw mechanic (i doubt they will but you never know), and have different functions from sch, yet dont compliment sch ones, then you will not have AST taking the place of WHM in a party. Look at how SE handled the WAR/NIN debuff on enemies, they dont stack. If AST has a buff/debuff that works too similarily to a SCH one, then what is the likelyhood they will be allowed to stack, if they dont stack, its AST/WHM.

AST with healing style , as i have said, is unknown. We can, however, make some educated deductions. We can assume that this healer is going to be make unique compared to sch and whm (whm being the aoe healer, with regen skills, and self cooldowns; sch powerful single target healing and mitigation, with party wide buffs). So maybe they can just take one part of whm and one of sch and stick them together (bad design but meh). In that case it wouldnt make either class extinct over another. However, the more likely scenario is that this healer has been designed to compliment either of the healers in the game, with it only occuring in end game raid where you come across situations that certain pairings of healer will give the group a significantly better chance at passing the content.

TL;DR too early to be doomsaying about one healing class being made extinct, wait and see what AST design is in terms of style :).

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Originally Posted by firstsin

Hey SCH how are you guys doing in Odin?

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Um mainly having a heart attack when there is mass aoe damage going out and the whm i am with decides to cast cure on then tank, then another one, and maybe a third cure just to make sure :). How about you? :).

jobs going 60, WHM will get new skills as well
let's wait before crying, shall we?

Here we go again...

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

A sch solo healed t12....

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Likely in a group that pushed to phase 3 with 3 Bennus, doing so trivialises the only unavoidable healing check in the encounter. Assuming people were careful with P4 dives, theres no reason why a WHM can't do the same.

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Originally Posted by sharazisspecial

Whats so good about an AoE regen that you can barely use .
Raw healing isnt utility because every healer provides that.

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Please do yourself a favour and get working on FCOB, Remember how Turns 1-5 felt when your group first rocked up in darklight gear? Turn 13 (and to a lesser extent, T11) recaptures that feeling and then some, it's a healer check like nothing else I've seen in this game and even with our fairly simplistic spell book, it's a hugely enjoyable encounter that simply pounds you with raw damage rather than gimmick oneshot mechanics.

Whilst yes, I agree wholeheartedly that I'll never pull the DPS numbers on my WHM that I can do on my SCH and certainly, I'd love to be able to help mitigate those transitions in the same way as well. But I also know fondly that if the need arises, I'll always have a big chunk of healing a button press away. Several times now I've kept the raid alive through a missed tower in phase 4 and more relevantly, I've done it without any cooldown or charge dependancy.

Sure, in the perfect minmax world I'd never need to put out that kind of burst healing unexpectedly but alas, I don't seem to be able to find one of these inhumanly perfect groups everyone seems to theorycraft for. It's all good though since I love my group <3

Also keep in mind that almost nothing concrete is known about AST right now. In honesty, the only assumption I'm prepared to come to is that AST is most likely going to be a debuff orientated healer (and similarly, my money is on DRK having an alternative to succor) to offer an alternative to dragonkick for groups without a monk. From there you could either assume that it's going to play similar to a scholar (Heals plus dot dps with a bigger focus on debuffs instead of buffs) or hope that SE really go wild and make the job heal via debuffs on the target or something else of the sort. Gogo conjecture!

I still think that SE missed a trick not going with a melee healer and dressing it up as fencer/rdm though, hire meee Yoshida! =(

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Originally Posted by DreamWeaver

Can Odin's Einherjar be silenced?
I only cleared it once (thank you PoM and Divine Seal) before I went my merry way on devouring other content.

Seems pretty unreasonable for an attack to deal 50%+ damage and applying a 30 second bleed on all 8 members and expect the healers to "deal with it".

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Yeah tell me about it...we somehow healed through a redfire explosion today lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFxDyX7w2h0

It was exciting, to say the least XD

OMG, two SCH's in Odin is pretty much a guarantee fail, IMO. I queued in once yesterday as SCH and we ended up getting the other healer as SCH as well. We did not win the fight. Now, I know a WHM is pretty much a must in this fight.

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

OMG, two SCH's in Odin is pretty much a guarantee fail, IMO. I queued in once yesterday as SCH and we ended up getting the other healer as SCH as well. We did not win the fight. Now, I know a WHM is pretty much a must in this fight.

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How could this be. SCH are better than WHM. Check all of the previous posts. So many great example of SCH doing everything SOLO. Surely you wiped cos there was a WHM hiding somewhere not doing DPS. Oh wait the SCH can DPS and the Pet can heal duh.

/sarcasm off

Annoyingly this in DF is a 100% fail for me so far. Either DPS are dying to AoE or their DPS is terrible.

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

OMG, two SCH's in Odin is pretty much a guarantee fail, IMO. I queued in once yesterday as SCH and we ended up getting the other healer as SCH as well. We did not win the fight. Now, I know a WHM is pretty much a must in this fight.

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No it's not. I had 2x SCH (myself and another), and we healed it no problem with lots of time for both of us to contribute to DPS. I almost solo heal it except for that dangerous time when you have 2x bleeds and you have to heal the tank from the Sangetail.

Be smart with your cooldowns and you should be fine.

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Originally Posted by HoratioTeakettle

No it's not. I had 2x SCH (myself and another), and we healed it no problem with lots of time for both of us to contribute to DPS. I almost solo heal it except for that dangerous time when you have 2x bleeds and you have to heal the tank from the Sangetail.

Be smart with your cooldowns and you should be fine.

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I WAS THE OTHER SCH !!!! LMAO

Such a small universe

WE OWN'D ODIN 2x SCH FTW

Why is there more of the bullshit going around? What is everyone's sudden issue with WHM? =/

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

Why is there more of the bullshit going around? What is everyone's sudden issue with WHM? =/

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Because if people couldn't complain about something, and make proofless speculations on the internet, what would they do with their lives?

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

Because if people couldn't complain about something, and make proofless speculations on the internet, what would they do with their lives?

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What I don't understand is why is that WHM is getting all this... hate? It that what you would call it? Why is everyone assuming AST will compliment SCH? What if AST has a shield like SCH and they can't stack? What if SCH is the one that becomes "extinct" because WHM gets better spells from 50-60? I'm not saying this is going to happen, but what I'm saying is that there is a possibility for a lot of things to happen since WE DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT AST.

I agree. If I were to make a guess, I would guess AST will be more like a SCH than a WHM.

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Originally Posted by VanilleFang

What I don't understand is why is that WHM is getting all this... hate? It that what you would call it? Why is everyone assuming AST will compliment SCH? What if AST has a shield like SCH and they can't stack? What if SCH is the one that becomes "extinct" because WHM gets better spells from 50-60? I'm not saying this is going to happen, but what I'm saying is that there is a possibility for a lot of things to happen since WE DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT AST.

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because scholar bandwagon hippies

I doubt that the playerbase in general has anything against WHMs.

Seems much more like certain WHM players have an inexplicable inferiority complex and want to blame their own shortcomings with the Job on a perceived disparity between WHM and SCH effectiveness.

As for this thread, I'm not sure why it even started if not as troll bait. How in the hell is anyone supposed to guess at a new Job overshadowing an existing Job when there is no gameplay information available for making comparisons...?

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

How in the hell is anyone supposed to guess at a new Job overshadowing an existing Job when there is no gameplay information available for making comparisons...?

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Exactly my point. Some one did the same thing in another thread. I had to walk away. lol

@Lyrics: omg! That explains it! Thank you! <3

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Originally Posted by HoratioTeakettle

No it's not. I had 2x SCH (myself and another), and we healed it no problem with lots of time for both of us to contribute to DPS. I almost solo heal it except for that dangerous time when you have 2x bleeds and you have to heal the tank from the Sangetail.

Be smart with your cooldowns and you should be fine.

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Yep! Rouse combos FTW with 2 SCH!

Err, there are no issues with WHM. In fact, I prefer to play as my WHM over my SCH any day of the week. There are no issues with WHM, so please take that elsewhere.