Friendly community indeed...

I feel bad for your friend. When I became level 49, my FC members told me to do the final dungeon with them, because of the reasons that you have mentioned in your first post. At first I thought they were exaggerating, but I did the final two dungeons with a full FC run and watched the cutscenes in peace.

When I was done with the dungeon, I decided to queue for the bonus roullete and what I saw baffeled me. There were newcomers who were forced to either skip cutscene or get kicked, they were excluded from boss fights and if they were a Tank or Healer, I saw players leaving the dungeon. I was suprised and happy that I have a good FC that is looking out for me.

I wish your friend has the same type of players around him, but atleast he has one player that is looking out for him, you.

Hey officer from said FC.

Shuu if you have trouble with other FC-mates you could maybe talk to us officers we are reasonable people and would try to help you get sorted out, maybe give us some names and we can talk to them (not public name and shame them of course).

Unfortunately since we are a large FC and have all kinds of people its kind of hard to manage everyone and how they act around people, but we try to get people up through content often and its good someone can go "Can we do "X"" and normally get a response quickly.
Anyway, I have the name of the tank, I will talk to them, if the member wants to do a story run at any point I hope they still ask the FC.

Anyway M out.

Don't get that saying mixed up with FFXIV.

That saying was for Final Fantasy 11 mmo and yeah that community was awesome.
Then you have other players from different MMO's coming here expect a change, not only that the game mechanics and the way its set up makes people flip out after so many losses they become different.

From the helpful its no problem we died we can try again mentality to this sucks, you got us killed, kick this guy im better than everyone else attitude.

I refuse to budge if anyone is in a CS in ANY instance. Benefits of maining both WHM and WAR.

When I did CM my first time, as a MNK, even with skipping CS, I got separated from my group. A DPS started attacking me for being behind and called me stupid for "not knowing how to use the map at 50." Luckily there was a tank there that took the group back to find me, and most of the party called that guy stupid for thinking a first timer had the map. You could say that was an inspiration to me.

There's no reason someone should try to dupe new people to get bonus. That just makes you scum. Same to the people demanding people skip or belittling those that don't (There's a special place in Tartarus for people like Miss "I skipped because I'm not self-centered.").

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Originally Posted by MirielleLavandre

Glad you're on my server, Ghanima -- good to have nice people around ^_^v

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Thank you Rin <3 I'm glad to see that we're on the same server. If you ever need a PLD or SCH, feel free to add me.

I've experienced only a few of the people rushing others...One had the gall to tell me, "You know you can watch them all later, right?" And I just kept watching after telling him, "Yes, but I want to see the story in the right order". I was WHM...and they still left me LOL. But whatever, they were in such a rush to carry me, so I let them.

I kinda wish more people DID watch the cutscenes, even if just once lol. A few of my friends are like, "Who's Such-And-Such?" when I talk about story-related things, and I just want to facepalm...and often say, "If you watched the cutscenes, you'd know..."

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Originally Posted by Violyre

I refuse to budge if anyone is in a CS in ANY instance. Benefits of maining both WHM and WAR.

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that used to be a thing until gear got as high as it is now. now, a tank is barely needed for any of those fights, let alone two of them. also, remember, depending on how the party make up is, there can be at least 6 others that want to keep going. you can bet they would leave both of you in a heart beat.

My FC just took 2 new player through Castrum and Praetorium last night. We all told them to enjoy the cutscenes and read at their own pace. That is how White Wind operates when it comes to doing something for the first time. Relax and enjoy the cutscenes.

Sad to hear your experience was not the same. I would not stick around a FC if they only helped if it meant easy Tomes, or plowing through everything. :(

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Originally Posted by HeroSamson

Don't get that saying mixed up with FFXIV.

That saying was for Final Fantasy 11 mmo and yeah that community was awesome.

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Aye - this game is a whole different animal. It feels the same aesthetically, but you need look no further than MANY of the replies in this very thread to see just what a cesspool of awfulness this community is. These old dungeons are the worst. It's SE's fault for seriously thinking it was a good idea to put long cutscenes all over a raid, but the players take it to new levels of just plain meanness with some of the things we say to new players. All it will do is cause those players to say "nope - there's too much choice of game out there for me to put up with THIS nonsense" and they will cancel and move on. That's cutting directly into SE's bottom line, and that means less effort being put into this game we all want to love as much as we loved XI.

So here's a tip to everyone who posted in here with a jackhat comment about your time being more important than anyone else in existence: Get over yourself.

Oh and, start scheduling raid trips for when you actually can sit still for 20 minutes without popping a vein. You will live a longer life, I promise.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

*snip*

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The nostalgia filter is strong with this one.
FFXI had just as many if not more problems with elitism than FFXIV does, especially around the same point in the game's life.
Leveling any class that wasn't one of the "core" classes in that game was a horrendous chore unless you had friends.
I actually love this game MORE than I cared for FFXI, pretty much for precisely that reason. I've had very few problems with a "poisonous community," but that might have to do with me being on a much smaller server than Balmung.
Seriously roughly 80% of all the horror stories about community I hear in this game originates from Balmung or Gilgamesh.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

The nostalgia filter is strong with this one.
FFXI had just as many if not more problems with elitism than FFXIV does, especially around the same point in the game's life.
Leveling any class that wasn't one of the "core" classes in that game was a horrendous chore unless you had friends.
I actually love this game MORE than I cared for FFXI, pretty much for precisely that reason. I've had very few problems with a "poisonous community," but that might have to do with me being on a much smaller server than Balmung.
Seriously roughly 80% of all the horror stories about community I hear in this game originates from Balmung or Gilgamesh.

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Oh, I'm under no illusions of how some of the elitists were at end game, but we aren't talking about that. We're talking about shouting in Jeuno for help with one level cap item, and that friendly and bored soul helping you with all three. I'm talking about those linkshells that actually did things together and didn't get mad if someone wanted to see a cutscene. I'm talking about the amazing people on the Alla forums who used to crunch their numbers and actually share that knowledge. I'm talking about Jinte, Catwho, Seriha, and all the others who had amazing debates and discussions about the game and the jobs and everything else. I'm talking about Pikko Pots and her gardening. I'm even talking about Rog, though I was probably one of the most vocal to get him banned, which is what eventually happened. I'm talking about folks you actually knew by name - gosh I couldn't tell you the name of one person outside my FC much less not on my server that actually contributed in a meaningful way to the betterment of the playerbase... or the detriment. It's just a long string of random "stfu nub stop watching cs and wasting my time" utterances reminiscent of the diatribes I'd see when my little brother played CoD, throughout the revolving door ushering the sea of players in and out of my life. It's miserable. Hunts were the all time low, but it hasn't climbed very far out of that hole.

I'm not talking about BlueGartr at ground kings or other elite content. You went to that corner of the game, you knew what you were going to get. That isn't the same thing as some new guy just trying to finish his storyline quest in the queue because no one else will help him.

No, there was a lot to love about XI's community, and a lot of us wanted to recreate that here. The problem is, our generation is over. The time of the narcissist and instant gratification has come.

But I agree - maybe it's just my server. Balmung does seem to be one of the worse ones. Still, I was on a high pop server in XI and still felt more a part of a larger community than I do here. These official forums just don't feel like what we had before. Not by a long shot.

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Originally Posted by kyuven

FFXI had just as many if not more problems with elitism than FFXIV does

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HAHA no, sorry If there was, I don't even remember always had help, nobody complained everyone was laughing having a good time.

One of two bad apples but usually you never saw much fighting, It wasn't up until they added SOA people started to lock people out of their shells and content, claiming you needed a high level weapon to join their run.
I left before all that mess happened, though there was no problems at all, I was from Bismarck not sure what server you were from maybe the wrong one since you think elitism was more crazy in FFXI.

Everyone pulled together in FFXI nobody said no, Ohat runs shout instantly helped, sky runs everyone had fun going after that, I remember Cop sea missions people pulled together to help get through it before they nerfed it to hell.

When it had something to do with winning content nobody ever had issues.

If you are talking about Linkshell leaders, yeah some were out of control but i never joined those shells because I knew they would take off after they collected everything and ditch the shell, I wouldn't help those type ever.

Can't you watch the cut scenes later? I skipped them all and will go back and watch them later if I get really bored.

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Originally Posted by ofTheMoores

Can't you watch the cut scenes later? I skipped them all and will go back and watch them later if I get really bored.

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When asking for help from FC mates, people get one of the few chances to see cut scenes during the actual related instance. This may not be important to everyone, and surely it aint the way to roll in PF farm parties, but when setting up your own FC party asking for help I'd expect some politeness. Just because the tank wasn't treated with politeness when he first ran the instance, doesn't mean he should treats others the same way. The group had agreed on how they'd run the instance. Adding a smiley doesn't make it any less rude.

mid-dungeon cutscenes were a terrible idea. they should've anticipated this sort of friction.

i've never watched them in-dungeon because i'm fully aware they're a giant pain for people who have are not new.

regardless of if it's how they were intended to be seen, that doesn't change that it is a terribly short-sighted idea. if you want to establish that someone wants to watch the cutscenes, it's whatever. don't expect it to fly every time, though, and don't complain about it when people don't want to, which is perfectly reasonable.

especially in a dungeon like praetorium where there's lots of clickable dialogue/other things for players to interact with mid-cutscene, it's a huge waste of time for everyone else involved.

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Originally Posted by dioxideUniversa

mid-dungeon cutscenes were a terrible idea. they should've anticipated this sort of friction.

i've never watched them in-dungeon because i'm fully aware they're a giant pain for people who have are not new.

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They should have made those in combat cutscenes NOT SKIPPABLE by anybody if there is someone seeing them for the first time ever (aka a new player). That would have forced everybody to sit there to watch them.
To prevent potential people using an alt character faking for a 'new player' they would have added a time limit of like 10 sec per dialogue box, to avoid potential trolls never clicking on it and moving on lol

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Originally Posted by HeroSamson

HAHA no, sorry If there was, I don't even remember always had help, nobody complained everyone was laughing having a good time.

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This is what's called the "nostalgia filter"
Just because you don't remember it, doesn't mean it didn't happen.
The racism in FFXI, especially during the early days, was abhorrent.
I remember the good points and the bad, and over time the good will definitely outweigh the bad unless they were SPECTACULARLY bad, but don't pretend the bad wasn't there.
JP players didn't care for grouping with NA players, and NA players spouted some of the most disgusting racist vitriol I've ever seen at JP players.
Meanwhile in FFXIV we rarely see that (mostly because JPs and NAs have their own data centers, which is what FFXI players were asking for for the whole year I was there) but instead the animosity turns inward and is much more...comprehensible.
And again, I personally have experienced very few problems with players compared to other games. My EQ1 experience was dotted with some of the most heated rivalries and vitriol I've ever seen, but most of those bad apples are long, long gone. Since I don't even recognize a lot of the terms you're using, you probably played FFXI long after I did, when the majority of the truly nasty individuals vacated the game for "greener pastures" (WoW).

"Everyone pulled together and no one said no." well...not only is that kinda false (but again, nostalgia filter so you probably DO remember it that way) but it's also a different environment. Since the majority of everything required groups in FFXI, if you weren't in a group you weren't about to say no to doing something that would actually be...doing something. I had this experience myself in FFXI, as well as EQ1. We got up to some wacky hijinks in those days. But the cost was pretty high. Long, long hours of doing nothing if your job wasn't needed or your friends weren't online. I'd trade those hours for dispassionate dungeon runs with strangers in a heartbeat.
Because my friends will still be there when they're there. But I don't log into a game to sit on my ass for hours on end.

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Originally Posted by Hyunckel

They should have made those in combat cutscenes NOT SKIPPABLE by anybody if there is someone seeing them for the first time ever (aka a new player). That would have forced everybody to sit there to watch them.
To prevent potential people using an alt character faking for a 'new player' they would have added a time limit of like 10 sec per dialogue box, to avoid potential trolls never clicking on it and moving on lol

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I actually had a thought on this: along with your idea, have the default option for cutscenes be to skip ones you've already seen. Some people don't even realize it's an option and it would be a nice little compromise.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

But I agree - maybe it's just my server. Balmung does seem to be one of the worse ones. Still, I was on a high pop server in XI and still felt more a part of a larger community than I do here. These official forums just don't feel like what we had before. Not by a long shot.

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Allow me to relate some of my experiences over many, many years that have lead me to this conclusion: The more people on a server, the more assholes on a server.
When I played EQ1 and FFXI, I was on fairly mid-pop (at the time. Brell Serilis in EQ1, Leviathan in FFXI. The latter was only "mid-pop" because of the way people were distributed into their servers at the time) server. We had fun, we got along, and there weren't very many "problem children," though the problem children in EQ1 were pretty spectacular in their antics.
Then I move on to CoH and WoW, where I played on high pop servers, the latter also being a PVP server. Night and day attitude shift. Some of the worst jerks I've ever seen occupied this server. People who would camp newbie zones just to get their rocks off. Not to mention teabagging. Oh the teabagging. And that was just the PVP. CoH was just as bad, though due to the lack of PVP you would just get harassment of the more...bizarre kind. Truly bizarre.
But special mention goes to my time in EQ2. Not that much happened to me in particular, as again I was on a mid-low pop server, but the stories coming out of Antonia Bayle (the high pop server) made me cringe.
Since I had personally not had these experiences, I deduced that it was based more on population of the game than anything else.
If your server's having a rough time, make a character on another one, tease out their community. See how they act.

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Originally Posted by MirielleLavandre

I'm sorry you're not on my server. Our FC has 'movie nights' where we just go in with a full FC party and let the new person watch all the cutscenes while we just wait and chat or whatever. Sure, it takes a bit of time, but a good FC will do this for those who are new and want a better experience than many of us had at launch -- sorry that had to happen to you, and personally, I'd look for a new FC...

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I like this idea. I may propose it to my own FC.

Nothing to do with nostalgia.

I do remember my time on FFXI I was there for first event twinkling treants all the way to dec 2013 before I started to play this game.

Me saying I don't remember the bad stuff was figure of speech, I do remember JP saying no to NA players but who cares they didn't do that cause they hated us they did it cause they didn't understand what we were saying.
Sure some players had attitudes but who cared about that stuff it never effected my gameplay at all, I destroyed almost every single content they put out up until SOA where they decided to actually ruin the game with elite players also the fact they made quest and missions have to be done by 2006 standards flagging up and not getting a party for 3-5 hours or trying to make your own but everyone was busy.

Though as I said the bad players who started crap never effected the way I played at all, it never halted you unless you gave up.

Here in FFXIV you get kicked non stop from a dungeon if you screw up or if anyone else screws up they blame you anyways since they are from another server, people have control over what you finish in this game, if they don't help you don't beat content.
they get mad cuss you out, rag on you if you don't use the moves they want you to use its never what you want to use, if you dont use what they say kick.
Also the game plays for you as well setup to anticipate moves its not random, also I see it all the time in PF about being beefed up when sometimes a low level player with low armor can be just as good as a high level with armor its all about how they play its not about having best stuff and destroying content.

Here is another one, watch youtube video so you know the fight, you didn't watch video OMG SCREW THIS GUY lets leave always never seen that in FFXI

If you go to coil expect to be 100% or be kicked lol this game has far more elite than any game I have ever seen even more than WoW I only tried it for 30 days free.

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Originally Posted by HeroSamson

Here in FFXIV you get kicked non stop from a dungeon if you screw up or if anyone else screws up they blame you anyways since they are from another server, people have control over what you finish in this game, if they don't help you don't beat content.
they get mad cuss you out, rag on you if you don't use the moves they want you to use its never what you want to use, if you dont use what they say kick.
Also the game plays for you as well setup to anticipate moves its not random, also I see it all the time in PF about being beefed up when sometimes a low level player with low armor can be just as good as a high level with armor its all about how they play its not about having best stuff and destroying content.

Here is another one, watch youtube video so you know the fight, you didn't watch video OMG SCREW THIS GUY lets leave always never seen that in FFXI

If you go to coil expect to be 100% or be kicked lol this game has far more elite than any game I have ever seen even more than WoW I only tried it for 30 days free.

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I have never been kicked from a raid/dungeon in this game yet and I've been playing since ARR closed beta. Time to step back and realize that maybe you're the problem and not the rest of the community.

FFXI encounters were so basic that you really didn't need to know fights ahead of time so long as there were even a handful of experienced players ready to hand hold you through it (mainly good stunners). In FFXIV, DF encounters have a time limit and one person not performing mechanics properly can potentially wipe the entire group. So yes, if you queue into Coil 6-9 with zero prior knowledge then you're being inconsiderate to the other 7 players in the group.

I'm not even saying you need to be perform everything flawlessly, just a general idea of the fight goes a long way.

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Originally Posted by Deculture

I have never been kicked from a raid/dungeon in this game yet and I've been playing since ARR closed beta

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I haven't been kicked I have watched people get booted.

News flash there wasn't any kick option in the closed beta, are you sure you played closed beta?

"Time to step back and realize that maybe you're the problem and not the rest of the community"

Never been kicked myself always won my fights unless someone didn't know how to dodge and I never leave when we lose I stay till they get it.
Though I feel now since you said this line you maybe one of those elites always quick to assume never anyone elses fault but the other person that they kick even if the person they kick stays alive longer than most.
Though quick to say DPS too low or they wasn't dodging and yet everyone else dies and their alive, I don't say a word and laugh to myself and once they kick they all leave instead lets put down the guy before leaving yep sad.

How long have you played FFXI? Cause I know since the very beginning of FFXI since twinkling treants nobody held anyones hand, when new players came they joined LS and was showed the ropes.
I didn't see anyone asking to be rushed for GIL like here in FFXIV not until, the only time anyone ever paid for anything was a craft or teleport or a warp 2 and a raise if they were in the middle of no where land.

I see people asking to be rushed past content on FFXIV even in the PF board people asking for GiL to beat it for them lol

http://awesomegifs.com/wp-content/up...stion-over.gif

nothing against you but I don't feel like dragging this on any longer than it already has.

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Originally Posted by HeroSamson

I haven't been kicked I have watched people get booted.

News flash there wasn't any kick option in the closed beta, are you sure you played closed beta?

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Achievements are open if you care enough to click to the last page and check dates if you don't believe me.

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Never been kicked myself always won my fights unless someone didn't know how to dodge and I never leave when we lose I stay till they get it.
Though I feel now since you said this line you maybe one of those elites always quick to assume never anyone elses fault but the other person that they kick even if the person they kick stays alive longer than most.
Though quick to say DPS too low or they wasn't dodging and yet everyone else dies and their alive, I don't say a word and laugh to myself and once they kick they all leave instead lets put down the guy before leaving yep sad.

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Because automatically assuming the rest of the group is at fault rather than examining your own weaknesses or faults = I'm somehow quick to assume it's nobody else's fault. Your train of thought is all over the place.

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How long have you played FFXI? Cause I know since the very beginning of FFXI since twinkling treants nobody held anyones hand, when new players came they joined LS and was showed the ropes.
I didn't see anyone asking to be rushed for GIL like here in FFXIV not until, the only time anyone ever paid for anything was a craft or teleport or a warp 2 and a raise if they were in the middle of no where land.

I see people asking to be rushed past content on FFXIV even in the PF board people asking for GiL to beat it for them lol

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Really, you never encountered LS's that merced stuff like ground kings for ebodies/Ace's helm etc? Like I said, you played a completely different FFXI from what I remember.

Honestly, for Praetorium I do not mind the cutscenes. Castrum is just so long and tedious that it's more of a case that "I signed up to do it much much slower." It's pretty much the last stand of that portion of the MSQ so it's great to see you face and take down (so easily) Gaius with your badass group. Last night I queued into MSQ Roulette and saw that there was at least 1 new person (one being one of the whm, the other whm had only 3.8k hp). I didn't mind cutscenes at all and was the better geared tank. I voiced that I didn't mind a slower pace even when some BLM mentioned that people should watch it in the inn. I'd rather take it slow than die on a stupid pull. But the other tank ran off and the healers followed. Not much I can do about that at that point. It was just amusing to rip hate in sword oath not using provoke or flight or fight off the other tank.

Pleasantly enough, I queued into Stone Vigil NM for my low level roulette. It should have been quite obvious that I was there for exp but w/e. The tank had their novus(ormaybeitwasnexus) and the WHM was using their atma. The other DD was in a similar situation as I was. They tried to sac pull but failed to do it to the first boss so we killed a few things. At that point I realized that the BLM didn't really know the more useful rotation (Using only Fire 3. Then Blizzard or Freeze and then Blizzard 3). I asked or told them that they should use just Fire 3 once and then Fire 1 until just enough MP to then use Blizzard 3. He asked why, didn't get really offended. The whm said something about MP and I said that it was more efficient and better. He tried it out, fixing his hotbars all the same. Said "oh I see now." Then we sac pulled again to the 2nd boss and he got lost. That was fine... until he returned and ended up locked out of the 2nd fight. We ended up finishing SV, no one left. No one rage quit even though the tank and whm were more interested in speed runs than allowing us to get the exp we were sorta hoping for. It was still better than queuing into an otherwise-empty-but-for-this-one-monk Stone Vigil.

Seriously, I run FCOB and we insist on seeing the new cutscenes, even when some people have already seen it. The one time skipping was insisted upon was when it was Monday night, 3 hours to reset and we wanted as much practice in t12 as possible.