The Heavensward raid: Alexander

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Originally Posted by Gardes

Who wants to bet people will be begging for echo for normal mode?!

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Considering a lot of people are still stuck on turn 5...yep.

My level of excitement for this is TOO HIGH *spins mercilessly into the future*

Nothing like a holy sentient castle being to put a pep in your step, apparently. I might consider dedicated raiding this time around rather than subbing into Coil fights when friends need a body who can pull weight lol.

Isn't creating multiple tiers of difficulty on Raids something from World of WarCraft? Yoshi P copying his favorite MMO again?

For WoW experts, please let us know what it was like. I remember reading someone saying in WoW, the lower difficulty you got "welfare / poor man's gear" and you HAD to do the Hard Mode to get the real gear? If it's the case, as someone said earlier, I think most players would just feel compelled to do the "Hard Mode" Only.

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Originally Posted by jomoru

I wish harder stuff would give per cosmetic gear, titles, mounts etc stuff that doesn't effect game play but can be shown off for how awesome someone is.

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i think they must give different skin version of the normal armor. maybe the one from the hard mode can be dyed. because i'm sure i'm not the only one thinking at how will look the BC1-2-3 armor in different color. it will be a very good reward, maybe a mount too. but more ilevel? no clearly no, Yoshida is concerned with the progression of the ilevel, i will not be suprised if they slow down the progression of the ilevel into heavenward.

but i'm sure part of the playerbase don't care, they simply want bigger number. sadly it's the worst for the game to add more number simply because you beat the harder content. time to time, simply add more cosmetic reward is far more than enough. and if the number are all they care for, it's maybe time to rethink them way for the game.

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Originally Posted by Kiara

For WoW experts, please let us know what it was like. I remember reading someone saying in WoW, the lower difficulty you got "welfare / poor man's gear" and you HAD to do the Hard Mode to get the real gear? If it's the case, as someone said earlier, I think most players would just feel compelled to do the "Hard Mode" Only.

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In WoW, a prerequisite to opening Heroic is almost always beating Normal at least once, and Heroic often assumed you had several weeks of attempts of loot saved up from Normal in its stat tuning. The last couple fights of a Normal raid were also often very hard to pug, because of their coordination checks. They also didn't share a lockout, IIRC, so you could keep doing your Normal weekly for Even More Loot after Heroic was open. I think. It's been a while.

Heroic got you the best gear but you couldn't skip straight to it, basically. Though there were a few 'joke fights' that people always set to Heroic if they had it.

Using SCOB as an example, basically, imagine postnerf SCOB set to 'normal mode' and prenerf SCOB set to 'hard mode'. Normal mode would drop, say, i105 gear so it'd still be better than mashing dungeons out all day, you'd need to beat T9 to access 'hard' mode, and 'hard' mode would drop i110 that looks better or is dyable or something.

Well with the new raid you won't need to have cleared coil so that's good for people stuck on T5 :P

It seems like this will be their answer to the "Story Mode" Coil that was brought up awhile back. I'm sure Normal Mode will be plenty challenging, but I definitely see the rewards for it being reduced or removed entirely while Hard Mode is where the real prizes will be at.

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Originally Posted by Azper

It seems like this will be their answer to the "Story Mode" Coil that was brought up awhile back. I'm sure Normal Mode will be plenty challenging, but I definitely see the rewards for it being reduced or removed entirely while Hard Mode is where the real prizes will be at.

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I am guessing they will just do what you said take out any loot for normal mode like they do with the hard mode primals now. They are there for people to see the story. If you want loot you should do hardest version of the fights.

Normal and Hard modes....sounds like the old LOTRO, when raiding still happened there...Tier I and Tier II (and Tier II Challenge).....worked great, until the different tiers started drawing from the same loot table, which contributed to spelling the end of it all for that game's raiding...

As long as there are completely separate loot tables, this is a positive step and will get more people into raiding, which is good for the elite raiders, as well.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

but i'm sure part of the playerbase don't care, they simply want bigger number. sadly it's the worst for the game to add more number simply because you beat the harder content. time to time, simply add more cosmetic reward is far more than enough. and if the number are all they care for, it's maybe time to rethink them way for the game.

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My point was if people actually just care about challenge they'd want maximum challenge not "Because it gets me x" but clearly I see time and time again no one cares about challenge when they can get loot x. so I'm going to quote these people each time someone complains about content being too easy, that they want a challenge that people really want anything but a loot pinata.

Honestly what would be a fun idea to allow for challenge to stay in the game is to create a system in which you can lock the il cap and your rewards are influence by your ilevel.

Let's use alexander for an example. In Normal Mode let's just say they decide no loot drops.

**To keep it simple I"ll say the entry I level is 110 and the i level cap is 150 (raid drops 140 that can be upgrade to 150)
For the Hard mode it would work like the following:
-Item Level=Loot Drop
Unlimited=2 chest which can have gear for any job
130=3 chest drops (may drop materials for unique vanity)
120=4 chest drops (may drop a unique minion)
110=5 chest drops (all players gain a unique token which can be used to purchase special items)

And pretty much players could impose their own difficulty into certain dungeons but at the same time be offered new and unique rewards for them. So while some players can say "I just want to beat this" others may want to go that extra mile and challenge themselves for additional loot and to impose this challenge their IL would be limited.
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This could also be reflected with 4 man dungeon:
Unlimited= il130 gear drop
110= gear drops + vanity materials
100= gear drops + minion + vanity materials
90= gear drops + minion + vanity materials + special token to exchange for unique items

Honestly I believe SE could exponentially increase the weight of their content by allowing players to impose their own difficulty while also giving them more rewards from the treasure pool. It would give players a way to hone their skills and take on dungeons that would otherwise be easy given the inflated item level player's can easily achieve in a months time.

Hahahahahahahahaha aaaaahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaa

The moment Heavesward was announced I knew Alexander would be in. And apparently they are doing it justice Aaaahahahahahaaaaaa. This is going to be one cool expansion.

So, I never did Coil before the echo, but I can tell you it doesn't make a real difference. If you can't handle the mechanics, you will still get 1 shotted and wipe the raid. I hope they keep the echo out of normal mode and just have it toned down mechanic wise, so we can get an idea of what we can see before we try hard mode. I'd rather a system like that better than watching a youtube video.

thanks for the necro.

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Originally Posted by Phafi

thanks for the necro.

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well this is all speculation anyway...either way, i deleted.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

I think the more important question should be "is Alexander all of endgame raiding the way Coil has been for 2.0?". If everything gets funneled to Alex, that means we'll be exactly where we are now. Was hoping for something along the lines of "Alexander will be one of several high level raids".

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There were some other curious structures shown in 3.0 artwork, like that glowing mountain and the giant white palace thingy.

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Originally Posted by Gardes

Who wants to bet people will be begging for echo for normal mode?!

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This would be nice!! Some of us just wanna see the story. Why cant we see the story.....lol

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Originally Posted by Phafi

thanks for the necro.

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This thread isn't that old, you can't call it necro.

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Originally Posted by Airget

I feel like if they plan to make them the same then they run into two issues.
Raid groups can easily build their gear up through normal mode and then tackle hard mode once they are properly geared rather than spending time challenging hard mode

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ppl cleared T13, with ilv110'ish...
ppl are already properly geard for Alexander HM :)

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Originally Posted by Phafi

thanks for the necro.

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When people use established threads they get harassed for thread necro-ing.

When people don't use established threads they get harassed for not using the search feature.

No one can win. Ever.