Define what the core game is. Surely it's the part of the game you enjoy the most, the thing which keeps you playing? In which case, surely it differs from person to person?Quote:
Originally Posted by melflomil
I know a few people who enjoy collecting things far more than anything else in the game. People who'd do Coil just to get the Wind-up Louisoix more than anything else. Fairly sure their "core game experience" has already been pay locked given minions were the first things to get locked behind Mog Station, or soundtracks before that.
And yes, I'm well aware Yoshida said they wont go too far with it. Do I trust him though? Sadly, not anymore. I remember when veteran rewards were our cash shop, and then they added the cash shop (in an alternate reality we probably get rewards every 30 days still and all the cash shop minions/mounts/dyes are gated behind subscribing for X days, which I find fine). Heck, Retainer Ventures in the same update that let us buy two extra Retainers was already pushing it further than 2.45 has. Two extra Retainers. Two extra lots of Allagan Silver Pieces to instantly convert to Gil. Double the chance for (expensive) minions. That is an advantage, albeit small. I doubt we'll ever see powerful gear in the cash shop, but I'm certain they're going to continue to push the limit of what they can dump in there.
This guy gets it Terms and Services
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12-10-2014, 04:59 AMNalien
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12-10-2014, 05:50 AMBlindseer
I can agree that the retainers may offer an "advantage", yet this is after the consumers complained that they did not have enough storage space for all of the items they need.
As for most of your other posts on this subject stating that it provides something that should of been included already. They aren't removing anything if you want your wedding you can still have it, the extra "Add-on" is for more cosmetic attachments. Additionally we don't see similar posts on the World of Warcraft forums complaining about the cash shop and that one offers much larger advantages and similar products at much more exorbitant prices. So please can we let these posts die each time someone feels a cosmetic item = P2W or that they are cheated out of something they can get.
TLDR: Your not being blocked out of content, your only losing customization/vanity. Other games have this in todays day in age the juggernaut World of Warcraft included. The Devs have heard this all before and the complaints are always met with the same, cosmetic does NOT equal P2W. -
12-10-2014, 05:57 AMmelflomilThe core of the game is what keeps the game going. It is what MATTERS to the Developers. FF14 has few core contentsQuote:
Originally Posted by Nalien
1. Content that you need to advance in through story. Not to be a dick or anything but having a different color piece of gear or mini Yuguri follow you around will certainly not help you get through the story
2. Raiding... either it be casual or Hardcore. This keeps people coming back
3. Crafting... needed for the economy and to make items
4, Gathering.. needed for the economy as well
Now if the Cash introduces anything that conflict with any of the above than that's a no no.
If Odin's horse (forgive me for my spelling ) Slepinar had even a slight speed increase that will give others an advantage.
I understand that collecting minions and dyes etc matter for some people but the reality of it, it will not help you access the core game. It is just extra. -
12-10-2014, 06:03 AMpolyhedral
Meh, the green metallic dye is ugly anyway. I'd ask for a refund, but I know what SE would say, and that's a NO.
You're more spiffy without the green at least. -
12-10-2014, 06:30 AMNalienSuch people do not care about accessing (your definition of) the "core game". They are paying customers who are collectaholics. Apparently their dollar isn't as good as yours though, so SE has to charge them extra for a few collectibles. To you, Wind-up Urianger is just a silly extra. To them, it's part of a collection, and they have to pay extra to obtain it. They log on each day and do Frontlines to obtain a Warhorse before switching Grand Company to obtain the next one. They log on each day and check Sightseeing locations. They go fishing to complete their Fishing Log. Now every update they have to check the Mog Station to see how much a new collectible will set them back. Why exactly is their dollar worth so much less than yours that SE has to gate their content behind a cash shop? Because they're in an overwhelming minority? Because such players probably also have other reasons to play? What does any of that matter? If I log on and all I want to do is craft, I can. No extra charge. The same should be true for anyones play style.Quote:
Originally Posted by melflomil
Again, this seems to come down to apathy. "I don't care about vanity content", and all that. OK, I get that. Why should people who do care have to pay extra though? Why do you want them to pay extra? If you don't care about it, you don't care. Why are you here? The whole "I don't care about it, so leave it in, whatever" attitude that plagues these threads is making me wonder why I'm the one being called pretentious. I don't actually particularly care about vanity content. I simply find it ridiculous that people who do care about such content get such a raw deal, and that the majority of people posting don't even care but seem to think everyone else should adhere to their apathetic view on such content and stop whining about it. "I don't care about it so stop whining" really is one of the more pathetic things I've seen in these forums, and that's saying a lot... I get that WoW set the bar low with regards to cash shops, but other MMOs set it higher, and FFXIV even did a fairly good job with the Veteran Rewards. -
12-10-2014, 08:03 AMDyvidActually subscriptions are what keep the game going and best method to keep players around is offer a wide variety of content beside the normal raid and dungeon run. As long as people have something to grind for and enjoyable goals to reach they'll keep paying SE monthly.Quote:
Originally Posted by melflomil
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12-10-2014, 08:07 AMRiepahAh, I get it! Money is the core of the game, right? Right?Quote:
Originally Posted by melflomil
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12-10-2014, 08:17 AMBunsenThis isn't just his definition of "core game" this is realistically, what the game was built around... meaning core. The definition of core is the central of what something is built around. This is fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalien
The game wasn't built around collecting as many minions or mounts you can. It just wasn't, any reasonable person would agree. Let's be real here..... I totally understand that people play the way they see fit and no one has the right to say how they should play, especially if they pay a subscription for it. But to argue what is core and what isn't is complete nonsense.
SE reads the feedback "I want more minions, I want more mounts and I want more options for vanity"Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalien
Risk Analysis: Developers and designers spend X amount of hours and Y amount of dollars/yen to create Z item in game that a small portion of the population would even care about. What do they do?
A. They can ignore and put that time and those resources for other projects.
B. They can appease that minority by making it possible for Z item to be implemented into the game at the cost of time and resources for SE. With the extra cost and resources to develop these non-required elements into the game, the money has to come from somewhere.
Basically, if the "collectors" want more and more available non-required options than SE can provide, then it will come at a cost from someone for SE to put in that extra work to meet those special customer requests.
What's better? One price we pay for subscription to be limited to the certain # of vanity items? Or the availability to have many more options in addition for that extra price?
Would the community even notice if these extra Cash Shop items didn't even exist? Would they miss them if they were gone? -
12-10-2014, 08:50 AMmelflomil
Thank you bunsen. You have my love.
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12-10-2014, 08:52 AMLaylaTsarraWant to bet it won't stop the complaining. There is nothing game breaking in any of the Cash Shop offerings. They are simply optional features that some may elect to buy. Personally I've only gotten the name change offer for one of my accounts and haven't gotten anything else just yet. I do like the fact that there may be some things I'll find interesting and want to buy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemuel81
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12-10-2014, 11:03 AMDyvidThat's a loaded question because you can't miss what doesn't exist. The real question is would the community prefer to buy Slepnir straight out or win it from Odin EX? Would they prefer to buy scion minions or receive them from veteran rewards? Would the community have preferred to pay gil for platinum wedding items or just pay cash?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunsen
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12-10-2014, 03:45 PMGiantbaneYou're right, we have no legal basis to sue SE due to the inclusion of items in the cash shopQuote:
Originally Posted by melflomil
aaaaaaaannnnnnndddddddd....
that's all the ToS is there for
as a consumer anyone can feel entitled to anything they want from SE by right of the subscription they pay. And if they feel SE is not fulfilling enough of what they feel entitled to, they can complain about it through the proper channels (for instance, on the official forums) or they can quit. Every bit as much of a right as SE has to ignore their feedback if that's what they feel like doing. -
12-10-2014, 03:58 PMtocsinSpeak for yourself. we have entire subdivisions without even a single house purchased.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalien
You chose to add yourself to an already overpopulated server, and wont shell out the money to go to a server that has housing. you cant have it all, pick what you like the most.
@Bunsen: you are a godsend. Keep up the good work.
I would rather also have the option of paying for something vanity or optional, rather than having it gated behind an in game wall that I cant access, or ever will be able to access due to lack of skill or time (AKA final coil or nexus/zodiac) -
12-10-2014, 04:35 PMAlberel
So let me get this right:
The TOS covers SE's ass against any eventuality thus no one is ever allowed to complain about anything as long as the TOS covers it.
So why do these forums exist then? Is it just for people to sing endless praises to the gods or something?
The TOS also covers them against hiking the subscription fee but I'm sure you and all your cash shop loving friends would be here complaining if they hiked it to $50 a month. -
12-10-2014, 04:45 PMruskieBut it does. From a certain tier onward you get all that and more...Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunsen
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12-10-2014, 04:47 PMTaikaBut the comparisons aren't accurate. In case of FFXIV, the "extra" content sold for extra fee is something that is part of the game's content, not a separate addition. Accurate comparisons would be you buying a movie ticket, and then finding out some of the scenes are blocked behind a paywall, buying HBO subscription* and having certain episodes of a series excluded, or buying a gym membership and them telling you you'll need to pay extra to be allowed to use certain weights.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunsen
The complaints are, from what I personally think and have seen others saying, about people feeling this content should be included in the subscription fee. And that the "extra" content they're selling seems to be cut from the game, which means the players who don't wish to use the cash shop will have to settle for second class experience even though they're already paying at least 120 euros / dollars a year.
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Well in my home country you can't buy HBO as an "extra" for a cable service, you just buy the HBO and pay a monthly fee for it. :P Apparently this example doesn't work because it varies depending on country. I'm sure the point is understandable though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunsen
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12-11-2014, 02:28 AMBunsenYou pay a subscription for your cable service which blocks HBO unless you purchase that in addition. It is an "extra" an "add-on"Quote:
Originally Posted by Taika
This is a very simple, valid real life situation. Please don't try to complicate it.