How to make tanking more rewarding?

Even if there is equal number of all jobs, we have way too much dps jobs compared tanks and healer jobs. But that is gonna be fixed in the new expansion.

I have tanked aswell and tanking should not be about doing more damage. What Square Enix needs to do is go back to the drawing board and change the way Paladin and Warrior play. Some people dont like the role, even if you reward them this will only be a short time solution, what we need is a long term solution that will fix the tank shortage that this game and many others are sufffering from.

Yoshi-P and SE need to see what people like about the dps role and add it to tanks or else they could just give a tanking stance to all classes (but this wont happen and alot of players dont like this at all).

In otherwords the things that make tanks a probleem to find is:
1. The role is boring and more demanding then the dps role.
2. There is more responsability, which means tanks are on the spotlight and one mistake might invite verbal abuse.
3. Paladin and Warrior needs to be changed in the way they are played. Personaly for me Paladin is a huge snoozefest. I love sword and shield, but the class is so boring, especially when leveling up. Untill level 40 I only had to use 2-3 buttons.
4. Warrior and Paladin are not liked alot by the FF community. I think making Dark Knight a tanking class was the right step, since it is a fan favourite, we will see alot of non tanks make one to test it out.

Out of the three Tank, Heal, DPS of which Ive done upto and including T9, T12 on MNK. I find tanking the easiest of the three in FFXIV. But, I've done tanking, healing, DPS and mezzer roles going back to EQ1. If you don't know, Mezzer was a Crowd Control role that controlled the battlefield, the designated puller pulled, if any aditional came the Mezzer was tasked with crowd controlling the additional whilst each one was tanked and killed.

In coil, for progression there is the least pressure on the tanks to play optimal than the DPS and healer, DPS to constantly push and the healers to react. Spike damage is timeable for cooldowns. Or within set rotations.

As I say, tanking is easy, just takes a tiny bit of common sense and spatial awareness. Something, unfortunatelly, sorely lacking in too many people XD

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Originally Posted by Vorpal_Spork

A good healer won't be trying to click your avatar in the first place.

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You are absolutely right.

I don't need big outputs of damage or I would dps. What I love is in the briefing before a fight they say something like, "Monster "X" hits like a train. Don't get caught in his line of fire." Then the fight starts and in it a bit I get caught in its sights and "BLAMO!!!!", barely a scratch, like it never touched me. Being invincible like Superman makes me feel like a bad mamajama.

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Originally Posted by Hyunckel

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/d1/d18a...2a15ecfe40.jpg

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I tanked shiva HM from adds to death while DC'ed this week end xD I even got commends for that



on subject : people don't want to tank because they prefer to wave their epeen with high numbers. nothing will change that in the long term

Make it so that full party duties like Hard Mode trials and the main scenarios count toward the two mounts.

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Originally Posted by ErikMynhier

Being invincible like Superman makes me feel like a bad mamajama.

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Unless you get hit with that Kryptonite blast, it hits like a city bus thats behind schedule.

Not sure any reward would get more people to tank. Blame the community. You get people who decide to try out something new, get into a dungeon for the first time. Message pops on screen that there is a new person to the instance. Then you get the people who haven't slept in days, eyes bloodshot, constipated, been running the same dungeon for the 1000th time, could do it with eyes closed, that decide to give the new guy crap because he doesn't know what they are doing. Tank thinks, "man is this how its going to be all game?" Decides not to tank any more.

Then there's me, I don't mark, I don't bother keeping an eye on aggro, I don't rotate, see its not that I'm lazy, I just don't care. People want to be dicks, well revenge is a dish best served cold.

Its become a symbiotic job, you need me, I need you, shut your trap if you got nothing good, and just kill that damn thing. If this game had voice chat across the board it would sure liven things up, then I could go COD rage on everyone, that would be reward enough for me. I'm not happy until you're not happy.

I remembered FFXI and Ninja tanking. The utsusemi: Ni to Utsusemi: Ichi was kinda fun and required to pay attention. If done correctly, you had the best damage mitigation, if not you get slap around and had to try again.
Unfortunately it won't work in FFXIV because of the many monsters at the same time tanking and the difficulty to keep hate if you are trying to do something a bit complex at the same time (imagine that you had to input ninja mudra while tanking while the dps are spamming attacks at the wrong mobs).

love tanking but hate pugs, as tank u need to know everypull , every boss like the back of your hand..... the pressure is huge.

Even if u have gear , if u dont have exp u will make mistakes....mistakes as tank are HUGE mistakes.

Going blind as dps or heal is usually more relaxed , u kill stuff/heal party and move outside of aoes....thats 99% of the encounters that are puggable .

However is the other side of the coin , lots of endgame encounters for tanks are stand there and look pretty , move the boss a bit if that , or provoke when other tank has X ...thats BORING.

I love playing as tank and in most cases it's easier to play as tank rather as healer or dps. In my opinion SE did not handle the tank reward system very well. They put a tank only achievement (the mount one) but this requires only high lvl full party duties and this does not help the situation for all the 50 and <50 dungeons. They should put another achievement which rewards tanks for playing all this content or helping others in the low lvl dungeons. The extra gils on roulette is nice but it's not enough. Another thing that may help is making tanks "cooler" to play. This may include new or better skill animations which will not break the class balance. I think tanks need a better reward system.

Tanking reward should be tier 1 - 4 crit/det materias depends on content ^^

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Originally Posted by Sunako

Tanking reward should be tier 1 - 4 crit/det materias depends on content ^^

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No. Definitely not. Way too unbalanced. ^^

They already buffed the adventurer in need gil reward for low level roulette from 4500 to 7500.

I main a tank, I use it in my static or FC runs.

I also have a dps I use when puging.

It's nothing to do with numbers, fear of making mistakes, responsibility, or many of the other things mentioned. I just don't like asshats who rage just because I go too slow, too quick, miss a chest, don't miss a chest, full clear, don't full clear, etc.

Easier to wait a little longer in the queue and let somebody else deal with that.

Tanking is easy, Handling a party full of incompetent people is not.

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Originally Posted by Yhoiryo

playing is easy, Handling a party full of incompetent people is not.

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FTFY
/10char

I don't think the big numbers will help, by thinkin this you are looking the tanking role in a dps way. And tanking is another thing.
I like tanking because it's a controlling role.
People prefer dealing dmg, it's a fact and you'l never change it.

tank in FFXIV : deal less dmg and make of glass
DPS in FFXIV : deal more dmg and make of super thin glass <--------- this one sound more fun

@on topic: the reward are fine for tanker, if ppl don't want to play tank, they don't want to play tank, simple as that. Add more reward "might" solve issue for queue (it is not like it is an issue anyway) for DFR but after that, they will go back to what they like, the problem remain

Playing Warrior on the side; I think it's more the general fear of having too much responsibility in a party and or getting blamed for mishaps. I've been playing the job mostly for duty roulette and haven't encountered many, I can't remember any right now, people complaining about anything. I'm not doing speed runs most of the time and not every 'pull' is perfect but the majority of random people I've played with never complained...

Personally I think it's already quite rewarding, the adventurer in need bonus, the mostly instant queues and the feeling of helping people getting through content (especially if you play low-level roulette or story).
Though some nice glamours wouldn't hurt, especially for Warriors, not job specific mind you but something that fits the Warrior style, many current pieces fit more the Paladin with all their plates. I'd like to see more armour in the style of Warrior's AF gear.

I'd love to see some more really cool axes for warrior. Paladins get a lot of cool swords to choose from (Allagan, High Allagan, Ifrit, Garuda, Levi, Odin, Ramuh, and Shiva swords are super rad IMO) but I feel like a lot of the axes are boring in comparison. I'd like to see more variety I guess.

Hmmm... My FC has a huge number of tanks present and none of them play it anymore for a variety of reasons. My main raid tank plays tank all the time because he likes to do it and be dependable. However, he never goes into low level things on it unless it's for us. He just doesn't need anything.

Our once main healer went WAR and he doesn't do it for anything besides raid because he doesn't like to feel like he's letting down the party with a single mistake. So high pressure there. Our current raid WHM was once a main tank but he doesn't bother anymore because he's bored of it and has gotten everything. Myself? I personally hate it when no matter what you do, you're not good enough for the party nor feeling as if you did enough.

For my friends who were once tanks, they all complained about not having enough to do on tank. Mechanics ignored them and their drops came easily (aside from a stubborn T9 fending ring), leading them to be geared up too early and unfulfilled in playing. Our raid tank takes on all misc jobs like markers, call outs etc because he feels he isn't doing enough.

My main is PLD, and I can get an insta queue every day for my roulette, however I queue as BLM. It's just more fun to play. DPS is generally easier than tanking in most dungeons, you can halfass as a dps and still get by, whereas the tank has to be on his game the entire dungeon run. Not saying tanking isn't easy, one combo and a few hate generating actions and you have all the mobs on you all the time.

There are other things that contribute to people not playing tanks too here are some things I've heard in the past

Too much pressure
People expect you to lead the party all the time
People think you're a jerk when you tell them what to do
People don't listen
People don't attack numbered mobs

I don't want to tank in PUGs. In fact I don't want to really do much of anything in PUGs and I think the bigger problem is a lot of people, especially the better tanks, share my displeasure in the prospect of tanking for duty finder parties.

Good example for me is Stormcloak. As the tank from start to finish...I feel like I'm soloing the dungeon. From always running ahead to interacting with everything and always adjusting the damn Sasquatch so it creates snow balls while stunning the other add. Aside from that it's do this then this then this then this till your eyes bleed from babysitting everyone and everything in the dungeon for 30 to 60+ minutes straight.

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Originally Posted by Recaldy

always adjusting the damn Sasquatch so it creates snow balls while stunning the other add.

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Actually you can spice this up by playing the "I freeze ya" game with the party (ofc don't tell them beforehand). I also never pick up the add. This guy always mess things up when I'm building my snowman, and it doesn't hurt the dps classes, so I just don't care. If they don't like it, they can always kill it.

The main reason in my opinion that people dont tank, is the responsibility of tank switching, repositioning the boss, gathering mini bosses wile trying to keep the boss in position, its alot to handle and keep straight for very long when the rest of the party keeps wiping to silly things. Very stressful and can take its toll on your soul when you get blamed for others mistakes.

I used to love tanking. PLD was my main when I started and I loved it. Then it just started to become babysitting others whining about every little thing. That got old quick, so I switched to dps and it is just so much more relaxing, I don't play a video game to deal with stress or people pouting because something isn't done their way, I get enough of that at work.

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Originally Posted by Thistledown

Tank is the least preferred role to play in the game. It is apparent from all those \\'in demand\\' messages on the roulettes.

I gave it a thought and after playing WAR for a while I think I figured out why.

Tanking isn\\'t as enjoyable as dps because it produces small numbers.

We deal and take less damage. Sure the whole point of tanking is to take less damage but the point is, we don\\'t know how much

Here is my suggestion: show \\'% damage mitigated\\' on flying displays like Parry currently does. So if I had Inner Beast active, a mountain buster would say \\'1610 (20% mitigated)\\', as opposed to just \\'1610\\'.

What do you think? What other non-encounter-specific improvement would you make?


TL;DR- show % damage mitigated by cooldowns on tank\\'s damage taken, just like Parry.

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For one moment I thought you were about to suggest a whole reform of the tanking jobs adding some system where we really need to do certain actions or combos to enhance our defense or slow enemies, or reduce enemies attacks, and all that having to deal with aggro... Yes, I mean, uhm... Something the opposite to PLD, perhaps... (Easy one combo and just burn Coldowns... really?)

At least warrior has to play with stacks.... I'll just take this part of your phrase and hope DRK to be awesome: ["We deal and take less damage. Sure the whole point of tanking is to take less damage but the point is, we don't know how."]

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Originally Posted by mosaicex

And of course, regarding undesirable attitudes from other player, it would be beneficial to all the newbie tanks out there to develop 'thicker skin' regarding criticism and/or insult. Remember that you're important part of the group, keep in mind that other players ARE expendable (maybe not the healer). This doesn't meant you can or should act like pompous ass, however. And when people offer advice, be sure to take it to heart.

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same should be said about lazy good for nothing dps, i play all roles, and mnk is by far my favorite and drg close behind that. i tried to give a dps advice when i was in a dungeon on his drg, and after the next fight, vote kick initiated. luckily, immediately after that dps was vote kicked instead, but point is, cant expect tanks to follow this idea if dps dont do it either

tanking will make you bitter about other players,i tanked since 2002 on alot of mmos, players will just blame you from everything like dying to a mob that they pulled or focusing on the wrong mob,standing in front of a boss even when it has a cleave, poping all burst cds before the tank has a chance to get aggro in a fight,etc. i have made some tanking mistakes and i will say my bad and will do better. but the constent crap you get from players over the couple years i just giving a **** what they think and continue to tank i know how, look up fights and position the boss etc. because at the end of the day im the tank and lead you go where i go end of story. im also more like to jump in front of a healer to shield them than dps... cant live in my healer bites the dust :D

Oh wow this thread really blew up. Thank you everyone for participating in a civilised manner and putting forward a lot of different opinions.

It is lovely to see people with actual concern over tanking as a whole, not just focussing over 'add moar tanks' or 'dps queue too long' circlejerk.

It makes me sorta proud to have chosen WAR as my secondary.

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Originally Posted by Vorpal_Spork

The only MMOs i've seen that tried not to have the trinity were horrible. There was no teamwork required and none was possible anyway. It felt like just a bunch of people KSing my solo kill rather than a group fight. It also involved a whole lot of dying and respawning because there weren't any healers. If someone held a gun to my head and tried to force me to play Guild Wars 2 I'd pay really good money not to.

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City of Heroes said hi.

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Originally Posted by warren-ragnarok

same should be said about lazy good for nothing dps, i play all roles, and mnk is by far my favorite and drg close behind that. i tried to give a dps advice when i was in a dungeon on his drg, and after the next fight, vote kick initiated. luckily, immediately after that dps was vote kicked instead, but point is, cant expect tanks to follow this idea if dps dont do it either

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Yes, the same could be said for every bad players, but like I said earlier, DPS players are expendable. Tanks (and to certain extent, healers) are not, most of the time anyway. If bad DPS players are giving you too much trouble you can just votekick them and get another one replaced in like 1 minute max.

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Originally Posted by Thistledown

Tank is the least preferred role to play in the game. /snip

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Tanks control the tempo of the battle.

Majority of players don't feel up to the pressure of being that person that controls the tempo of a dungeon or encounter. When in reality tank is the easiest role to play once you can get past that pressure.

edit: they can make tank more rewarding by multiplying the roulette reward for adventurer in need by x10.

The instaqueues are nice, especially when I play with my WHM friend.