Thank you SE!! (DF lockout)

I personally never do leves or FATEs while queued up, especially as a dps, since the wait times are so unpredictable. At least tanks and healers can predict their queue times.

they're going to need to fix the thing about not being able to commence while in combat (going hand in hand with the inability to change classes on the fly for df). that accounts for 99% of my missed dfs.

So it sounds like it all boils down to this. When you want to DF:

You will not craft.
You will not gather.
You will not do Fates.
You will not do Leves.
You will not do anything that will otherwise make you change back to the class you DF in.
You will not Alt-Tab out of game.
You CANNOT level up Chocobo while waiting.
You must know in advance, that within the next 2 hours while waiting for DF, that you will not have the need to get a drink refill, use the bathroom, or any other reason that may take your eyes off the screen.
You CANNOT wrap up your retainer work when the DF pops, because the game will not allow that, nor will it allow you to commence with retainer windows open.

i have a bad feeling about this..
does the penalty apply when ur in a party?
if someone in ur party goes afk for whatever reason randomly, yeah D:
lotsa trolling incoming

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Originally Posted by Mykll

You will not gather.

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Because it really takes you more than 45 seconds to clear one gathering node.

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You will not do Fates.

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Because you can't run out of range to deaggro within 45 seconds.

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You will not do anything that will otherwise make you change back to the class you DF in.

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Because it takes you longer than 45 seconds to press a gear set button.

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You will not Alt-Tab out of game.

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Because there's no option in the game settings to have the game sounds played while alt-tabbed.

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You must know in advance, that within the next 2 hours while waiting for DF, that you will not have the need to get a drink refill, use the bathroom, or any other reason that may take your eyes off the screen.

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Because you really like Murphy's Law, don't you.

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You CANNOT wrap up your retainer work when the DF pops, because the game will not allow that, nor will it allow you to commence with retainer windows open.

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Because exiting a maximum of 5 windows takes more than 45 seconds.

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Originally Posted by Mykll

You must know in advance, that within the next 2 hours while waiting for DF, that you will not have the need to get a drink refill, use the bathroom, or any other reason that may take your eyes off the screen.

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What happened if someone just recently diagnose with kidney stones? lol

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Originally Posted by BobbinT

What happened if someone just recently diagnose with kidney stones? lol

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Then they should really be sitting at the doctor's, not at the computer waiting for a queue.

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Originally Posted by Minorinz

i have a bad feeling about this..
does the penalty apply when ur in a party?
if someone in ur party goes afk for whatever reason randomly, yeah D:
lotsa trolling incoming

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The penalty is applied to the person that withdraws or times out, so they can only troll themselves.

I wonder if you can pull your ethernet cable without penalty? I mean some tosser might think about doing that explaining he has had connection issues all day.

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Originally Posted by Elven

I wonder if you can pull your ethernet cable without penalty? I mean some tosser might think about doing that explaining he has had connection issues all day.

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You lose connection but the character remains in the game which means he'll time out and count towards the penalty.

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Originally Posted by Garotte14

"What if I have to pee?" Really? 3 times in a row?

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Most people tend to have to pee 3 times in a day, yeah.

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Originally Posted by Riviere

You lose connection but the character remains in the game which means he'll time out and count towards the penalty.

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Even if you're losing connection legitimately you're penalized I hope this discourages people from withdrawing but it also highlights another matter. People still largely us DF because they are not in statics or FC and SE has noticed a large number of their player base still plays this game alone. What with the debacle over at destiny with no match making forcing people to find groups. I personally think SE is addressing this problem in a attempt to shorten wait times.

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Originally Posted by whoopeeragon

Then they should really be sitting at the doctor's, not at the computer waiting for a queue.

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k then...

what if someone got sudden attack of serious diarrhea? lol

i view this punishment unfair in general sure there are a few trolls in the duty finder but that's no reason to punish innocent people who have a legit reason for withdrawing

i dont think this is right at all because some people troll we all will be suffering this is why i hate people ^_^

Missed 4 pops yesterday as I was in the midst of a craft and could not finish before the short timer ran out. Having to requeue on itself is already annoying enough. Getting a penalty added on top of that is simply outrageous in my opinion. Have already submitted a suggestion ingame to add a "wait" button.

And will continue leaving the same suggestion every single time I'd run into a waiting penalty. Either till they remove this completely, or till they introduce a wait button to extend the timer.

3 withdrawals per HOUR would be enough to cull the fishing-in-progress crowd, without punishing crafters, alt-tabbers, parents and so on. Per day seems unreasonable and unneeded.

they need to not do this period it punishs people who got legit reasons and why even have it to start with people need to just deal with it people leaving a duty after searching happans all the time even outside of this game its part of a mmo life ~_~

Then go take care of your business first? You make it sound like you have to withdraw 3 times straight. I rather not have my party wait several minutes longer because every other person joining "suddenly" had to do something else/couldn't drop what they were doing in game.

there´ll be soo many dissapointed faces when it comes out that this system wont work....Dont be too happy about that. as long as there is no penalty for being kicked, all we´ll get are tons more of those "afkers" waiting for you to kick them to bypass the Penalty

Then just report and resort to party finder then. No use in crying about it. Besides, I highly doubt there are going to be a lot of people waiting in long queues just to troll afterwards.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Then just report and resort to party finder then. No use in crying about it. Besides, I highly doubt there are going to be a lot of people waiting in long queues just to troll afterwards.

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Tanks would do it

And why would they go this far in the first place?

They wouldn't have had to introduce this feature if some people didn't act like complete cockwombles and fish for insta-ques.

As the sayings goes "A few bad apples spoils the whole bunch", "This is why we can't have nice things" etc. Even if you, yourself, don't DF fish, we, as a community, have only ourselves to blame for a feature (that I welcome) being implemented.

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Originally Posted by Noshpan

They wouldn't have had to introduce this feature if some people didn't act like complete cockwombles and fish for insta-ques.

As the sayings goes "A few bad apples spoils the whole bunch", "This is why we can't have nice things" etc. Even if you, yourself, don't DF fish, we, as a community, have only ourselves to blame for a feature (that I welcome) being implemented.

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They could have come up with a better solution than 3 withdrawls per day. 3 withdrawls every hour, or every few hours you'd think would still curb the fishing that is causing the problems here. They could also have changed the display so it doesn't show whether a run is in progress or not. Although I suppose it depends on what their idea of "temporary" is. If it's only a 5 min timeout or something like that, it's not that bad. But we'll have to wait and see.

-OR-

Since the problem is fishing for instant queues, just give people what they want. Give them 3 options for queuing: "fresh dungeons only", "in progress or fresh dungeons", or "in progress only". If people really, really only want to do dungeons that are already in progress, let them. This will effectively get everyone who is fishing for dungeons OUT of the pool of players that just want to run the dungeon from start to finish and you won't get any fishing whatsoever. And before you think that everyone's just going to do "join in progress only", you have to remember that if too many people start doing "join in progress only" they're going to have to wait in line not only with everyone else who wants to "join in progress only" but they'll also be in line with "join in progress optional". At that point, you're probably going to end up waiting longer in the "join in progress only" line than it would have taken to just do the dungeon from start to finish. It will balance itself out that way.

In addition, don't show the actual progress of the dungeon. CT/ST was changed to showing 0/1 only, no matter what the progression level was. That should be the standard for all dungeons. This will further reduce fishing for "last boss only" runs, and will prevent people dodging "bad" in progress runs like 0/3 or 0/4, which is arguably where people need the most help.

And then to just to take care of the trolls that like to queue/withdraw just to mess with people, give anyone with 3+ withdraws in a 1hr timespan a 10min timeout.

Granted, it's a slightly more involved solution, but it should handle most of the withdraw problems we've been seeing, without the risk of being overly punitive to those who get stuck in a situation where they need to withdraw for legitimate reasons.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Then go take care of your business first? You make it sound like you have to withdraw 3 times straight. I rather not have my party wait several minutes longer because every other person joining "suddenly" had to do something else/couldn't drop what they were doing in game.

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um not all things can be tooken care BEFORE hand your logic is selfish just because u dont have emerergys come up or choirs u get called to do last mintue that you werent expect dosnt mean the rest of us have a perfect full day to sit still watching the duty finder.

so stop being selfish anyone who believes this is a okay system is really selfish there are legit reason to withdraw that can not be helped

theres health issues for 1
theres family matters that come up for 2
power outages for short times

and wireless connection acting weird for a day is another but thats not all people could have legitmit reason

all for what because u cant wait but 3 more mintues or few seconds for most cases you going to punish people who leave for logical and realist reasons

its completely selfish logic

And the other side isn't selfish by holding up the rest of the party?

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

And the other side isn't selfish by holding up the rest of the party?

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no they arent not mostly its for logical reasons they cant HELP whats so hard to understand some people cant help it for that time or day and its not harming ANYONE IN ANY WAY u just gotta wait 30 seconds at max normally plus UR A HEALER so u rlly should shut up about the search time unlike dps who has hours of queing u get what 5mins max of a search ur really selfish u know that

heres the reason why this is wrong
2 weeks ago my day went
first with draw was cuz of the time and i had to throw up out of know where (food poisoning)
second time i was withdrawen was my kitty cat playing with her toy accidently unpluged my connection
and third time the power went out no thunder storm or anything just boom out
and for that i would be punished for a issue that wasnt helpable and was completely unexpected and way out of my power so i should be punished cuz some selfish perfect life rich kids dont have to wait another 3 mins or less for a duty im sorry but thats screwed up

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Originally Posted by winxbloom61

no they arent not mostly its for logical reasons they cant HELP whats so hard to understand some people cant help it for that time or day and its not harming ANYONE IN ANY WAY u just gotta wait 30 seconds at max normally plus UR A HEALER so u rlly should shut up about the search time unlike dps who has hours of queing u get what 5mins max of a search ur really selfish u know that

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I am not sure about selfish. But really it is three times in a play window. I would think if you are having that many life issues you should step back from the game or inflicted your issues upon the community(sounds mean).

I guess we'll see how this pans out in the next few days. if it turns out to be a huge burden I can see SE changing it ASAP.

The only thinh is that people will have to wait alot longer for tanks to queue if thier previous tank leaves

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Originally Posted by winxbloom61

um not all things can be tooken care BEFORE hand your logic is selfish just because u dont have emerergys come up or choirs u get called to do last mintue that you werent expect dosnt mean the rest of us have a perfect full day to sit still watching the duty finder.

so stop being selfish anyone who believes this is a okay system is really selfish there are legit reason to withdraw that can not be helped

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Your legit reasons only apply to maybe once or maybe twice at most during a day, if happens three times then it is not a legit issue because if having that many emergencies in a single day and what you care about is whether or not do a raid or dungeon in a video game then you have your priorities completed messed up. If a parent or yourself need to do the chores then use some common sense and do them before putting yourself in a queue, even if your playing and first time have to go away to do a chore then again use common sense and ask if need any others doing or do any others before put self back in the queue. Take responsibility for your actions and the consequences of them.

There is no reason for you to miss or ditch a queue once popped up three times during a single day with your excuse of emergencies. A single emergency is understandable but three in the same day is not, if was that unlucky to have three in a single day...after the first one or two you should be reevaluating joining a queue in the first place especially if they are actual emergencies and not just inconveniences. This punishment system is fine and those who try to abuse the system by waiting till in dungeon before going afk hoping to get vote kicked will still suffer a consequence of being blacklisted by the community as in people will not group with them anymore, will not invite them to raids or hunts and might even report them for abusing the system which could end up being a longer ban than 24 hours for them.

Plus as said above chores is not a valid excuse either, do your chores before you play and like before if your quitting when pops up more than three times in a single day you shouldn't have been in the queue until they were done after first time getting called away. You do not get punished for dropping out a queue prior to popping up so you had plenty of time to evaluate whether or not have time to do the dungeon or raid prior to then and your excuses above about cat pulling power cord, throwing up plus additional power cut seem very unlikely in the sense they would all have to had to happen within the 45 seconds I believe that the window popped up each time out of an entire 24 hour period.

If your going afk and off watching TV or doing something else while waiting in a queue then you deserve to be punished for wasting everyone's time if don't care enough to even be playing the game or watching the screen when times out multiple times during the day. You should learn from your mistakes and if times out once or twice because you can't be bothered to pay attention then you should of corrected your behavior and not allowed to keep happening for a third time. Do not do high level HQ crafting while in a queue unless your willing to stop crafting when pops up, there are many other things in game could do which fills time while queuing.

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Originally Posted by Electrowitch

there´ll be soo many dissapointed faces when it comes out that this system wont work....Dont be too happy about that. as long as there is no penalty for being kicked, all we´ll get are tons more of those "afkers" waiting for you to kick them to bypass the Penalty

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This is what I'm thinking now, but still I'm pretty sure people would prefer to be in the dungeon already than clicking Ready over and over and over and over again until the end of time.

DF lockout is a great idea.

An harsh punishment would be a lockout after just one withdraw / time out. Everyone could have an emergency or simply forget to check the confirmation window.

But 3 whitdraws /time out per day after the Duty Ready confirmation window deserves a lockout penalty.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

In addition, don't show the actual progress of the dungeon. CT/ST was changed to showing 0/1 only, no matter what the progression level was. That should be the standard for all dungeons. This will further reduce fishing for "last boss only" runs, and will prevent people dodging "bad" in progress runs like 0/3 or 0/4, which is arguably where people need the most help.

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ONLY if they can allow direct invites to the dungeon. The progress is the only way I know I might be getting someone's dungeon run to help them out to finish. Otherwise, it will be enter, look around, wrong group, leave. Queue up again, enter, look around, wrong party, leave. Yet another bad decision from SE that we cannot invite directly into a dungeon. That is the only time I have ever fished.

And because of their bad decision making, I might be punished starting Tuesday to help friends out. Many times it takes several fresh run withdraws, in order to get the partial run I wanted to help someone out. Which is bad. The partial run should have taken priority and been in front of the queue to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Mykll

ONLY if they can allow direct invites to the dungeon. The progress is the only way I know I might be getting someone's dungeon run to help them out to finish. Otherwise, it will be enter, look around, wrong group, leave. Queue up again, enter, look around, wrong party, leave. Yet another bad decision from SE that we cannot invite directly into a dungeon. That is the only time I have ever fished.

And because of their bad decision making, I might be punished starting Tuesday to help friends out. Many times it takes several fresh run withdraws, in order to get the partial run I wanted to help someone out. Which is bad. The partial run should have taken priority and been in front of the queue to begin with.

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You would rightly deserve to be punished for doing so in my opinion even if not everyone will agree and the reason is all those groups you enter and ditch in an effort to find someone specific is screwing with all those other people in those other groups. If going to join an in progress run then help the people you first join with or don't join in the first place, the friend would probably get someone come in and help even if it is not you and if they don't then help them run it again after they finish the current run only this time help from the beginning instead of trolling all those other groups trying to find your friend.

Way too many people abuse the system while trying to fish for things like final boss only, consider yourself a casualty of war if you feel like it punishes you alongside them but while it might seem mean...I have very little sympathy for those who fish for a friends group anymore so than those who fish for final boss since I still consider it trolling a lot of other groups while searching for their friend. I have no problem with adding an invite function to an already in dungeon running group and it would be a good idea to have such but as the system works currently without it your annoying the many groups you pass through on the way to finding your specific one.

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

You would rightly deserve to be punished for doing so in my opinion even if not everyone will agree and the reason is all those groups you enter and ditch in an effort to find someone specific is screwing with all those other people in those other groups. If going to join an in progress run then help the people you first join with or don't join in the first place, the friend would probably get someone come in and help even if it is not you and if they don't then help them run it again after they finish the current run only this time help from the beginning instead of trolling all those other groups trying to find your friend.

Way too many people abuse the system while trying to fish for things like final boss only, consider yourself a casualty of war if you feel like it punishes you alongside them but while it might seem mean...I have very little sympathy for those who fish for a friends group anymore so than those who fish for final boss since I still consider it trolling a lot of other groups while searching for their friend. I have no problem with adding an invite function to an already in dungeon running group and it would be a good idea to have such but as the system works currently without it your annoying the many groups you pass through on the way to finding your specific one.

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I'll consider myself and everyone a casualty of a bad system. If I KNOW there is an in progress, why is that not the front of the queue ahead of a fresh group that has not even started yet?

If the friend already had to wait hours, or myself had to wait hours as a dps to get into something, and I can easily offer to swap to tank or healer, knowing my then empty dps slot would fill up faster, why would I think staying in as dps instead of changing roles for the group, or letting someone I know rot waiting for a replacement or starting over at the back of the line for a new run, that we would get a replacement before the dungeon timer runs out, when we/they already waited longer than the timer just to get in to begin with?

You agree with a system to have direct invites. If that happened that I would bypass the groups I am not looking for. Same as me trying to help a friend, or me offering to swap from dps to a tank/healer so the current group can continue instead of starting over at the end of the line, because I am not blind to long queue times. We want the same thing and it is just splitting hairs with the same end result, except the groups that I withdraw never know that I "withdrew" and passed them up with a direct invite to the dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Mykll

You agree with a system to have direct invites. If that happened that I would bypass the groups I am not looking for. Same as me trying to help a friend, or me offering to swap from dps to a tank/healer so the current group can continue instead of starting over at the end of the line, because I am not blind to long queue times. We want the same thing and it is just splitting hairs with the same end result, except the groups that I withdraw never know that I "withdrew" and passed them up with a direct invite to the dungeon.

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Yes I agree an invite function would be good but until that time with the current system people who keep ditching groups and ditching queues should be punished, we have the punishment for those who ditch in progress via a 30 minute lockout and now we have a punishment for those who keep trolling, abusing or ditching the groups when the window pops up to start a run.

These punishments are good incentive to stop people doing those things which annoy a vast amount of people. If they add an invite function, great but this latest punishment is merely a step in the right direction to solve a multitude of problems...what you do adds to this problem even if unintentionally, this latest measure does not solve all the problems and solution to your specific aspect which currently adds to the problem this is trying to deter may come about further down the line. I consider it one step of many they will probably introduce over time.

The current amount of time locked out from withdrawing constantly over and over is debatable but what is not as far as I am concerned is the need for a lockout punishment for such actions and a three strike rule seems fair amount of chances to stop abusing, trolling or annoying the other members of groups.

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

You would rightly deserve to be punished...

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So... you think anyone who DF-ing for like more than half hours and missed their commence by accident because no one in right mind staring the screen that long unless he/she got not life, and have to re-DF again are not punishable enough?

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

there are many other things in game could do which fills time while queuing.

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and please enlight us those "things" that are risk-free and not mind-numbingly boredom-fest.

I think this system will backfire but I'm willing to see what it's like. The reason I think this is a bad idea is it seems to be based on the following logic:

1) The people who are withdrawing are the same people. It seems like so many people are queueing at once that you can have several withdrawn queues from entirely different people. I don't think in-progress fishing or trolling happens that much.

2) If there is a penalty timer, people won't withdraw. I enjoy doing tons of things in FFXIV and I'm not going to do something I don't enjoy just because of a penalty timer. I've never once stayed in a dungeon that was a completely miserable experience just because "OMG 30 min penalty!" But I mainly tank so I'm sure the faster queues make a difference. So it seems like the penalty timers penalize some roles more than others. Anyway, people who get penalized will just do something else they enjoy be it crafting, hunts, doing real life stuff, or just playing a different game.

3) Withdrawing from a queue only happens under exceptional circumstances (e.g. an emergency). Since SE announced this change I've been mentally counting the "strikes" this new system would give me. Let's see, I got one today because I went to the bathroom, another because an FC member wanted to join our party after a queue already went through, and a third because I was in a long queue and figured I had time to craft a 100k item. In the last case, I had a choice: lose the 100k item or get a "strike." I decided to withdraw from the queue.

So in conclusion, one thing that makes long queues tolerable is that you can do other things: craft, gather, fates, go to the bathroom. For a DPS this system is especially harsh since the queues are so much longer. Now one solution is to just not queue if you can't be glued to your screen but that is pretty unfun (kind of the opposite of what playing a game should be about). Another solution is to just not play :)

I don't think this system will have a very noticeable effect on my playing habits. I'll withdraw from queues if something important comes up (that might simply be finishing a crafting synth). If the only fun thing I can do is queue and I can't do that, I'll just log out. If the penalty is too great and I incur it too often, I just won't play. This is yet another issue that DPS will feel the most because it means less tanks in circulation. If I miss a queue, it's annoying, you go back into queue, your time is wasted. I understand that. I just think that more time will be wasted waiting on tanks who aren't planning on changing how they play the game but can't requeue because of the penalty timer.

Pretty sure this system will either have no effect whatsoever or will have a negative effect. I don't see how anything good will come of it.

Edit: Possible exception if the penalty timer is like a minute or something (which is enough to disrupt in progress fishing and trolling I think).

Edit #2: Also, I'm on PS3 and it sometimes takes 40 seconds to load into a zone, so if I'm zoning when a queue pops and don't react fast enough I could miss it.

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Originally Posted by BobbinT

So... you think anyone who DF-ing for like more than half hours and missed their commence by accident because no one in right mind staring the screen that long unless he/she got not life, and have to re-DF again are not punishable enough?

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Given if you miss one or two times you do not get this new punishment, then yes because clearly you don't care very much for missing the commencement if you do it over and over again despite missing the previous times. That's why it is not a punishment for timing out or withdrawing for first few times, most people with some common sense would learn from their mistakes not constantly repeat them over and over again in the same day and especially if they actually cared about it.

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Originally Posted by Snugglebutt

Given if you miss one or two times you do not get this new punishment, then yes because clearly you don't care very much for missing the commencement if you do it over and over again despite missing the previous times. That's why it is not a punishment for timing out or withdrawing for first few times, most people with some common sense would learn from their mistakes not constantly repeat them over and over again in the same day and especially if they actually cared about it.

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Define "care". :p

and yeah, you still haven't give that example of safe "things" you can do. :p