RDM? (Artbook image)

I guess if I squint I can think of it as a rapier, but it just kind of looks like a stylized skinny longsword to me.

Would love a rapier class, regardless.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

I think the fact we have a dps job that can lower its dps output to offer support disagrees with this. Yes, BRD is expected to dps, but that's not its only role. It's also a support job, as situational as its support may be.

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Alot of the dps roles have support tactics implemented in their moves. IE Summoner's miasma implementing disease, and Dragoons move (disembowel I think?) adding more susceptibility to piercing damage, allowing BRDs to do more dmg + other drgs in the group as well since spears/bows count as piercing dmg. Bards support moves are just more up front and in your face with regards to what they do (Oh hey I got a song the restores mp noice)

Regardless a DPS rdm wouldn't really add much to the game, other man MAYBE repping a brd if they actually incorporated the use of Refresh/Haste as they did in XI...but with that they would need to beef up their dmg. Irregardless, a RDM in FFXIV will not be the same RDM you've had in the past if it is indeed implemented, with our current BRD job being the example of that, along with SMN. The current system just doesn't allow for a heavy support class OR a job that has been dubbed 'A Jack of all Trades'.

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Originally Posted by Adeline

Alot of the dps roles have support tactics implemented in their moves. IE Summoner's miasma implementing disease, and Dragoons move (disembowel I think?) adding more susceptibility to piercing damage, allowing BRDs to do more dmg + other drgs in the group as well since spears/bows count as piercing dmg. Bards support moves are just more up front and in your face with regards to what they do (Oh hey I got a song the restores mp noice)

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Then you agree that the dps role is the most fitting for a support job.

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Regardless a DPS rdm wouldn't really add much to the game

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The same can be said of every single job they will ever introduce.

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Originally Posted by Adeline

I hope rdm isn't a dps :S Need a new healer ASAP

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RDM always was a front line job, except for in FFXI.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Then you agree that the dps role is the most fitting for a support job.



The same can be said of every single job they will ever introduce.

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No I don't agree. I believe that they can go a different route if they decide to make RDM a healer with some support moves instead of just rehashing what they did with BRD. For example, in situations during T9 if your WHM is halfway decent, most whms can solo heal parts of that fight (golems, heavens fall with no add etc). This usually leaves the SCH in a position to dps while their fairy is healing along with the whm. The fairy itself is a huge support role, with Selene being of great use to push DPS phases.

Now let's reverse that and align RDM along the healer route, and give them decent heals (not the BEST but something), and give them some cool support moves as well, such as haste/refresh. While your other healer is primarily healing (either whm or sch can work TBH), the RDM is buffing the party in between heals if need be. The only issue I can see this maybe being an issue perhaps lack of AOE heals if you have a SCH alongside the RDM. Don't get me wrong, succor + shield+ Eos Regen can suffice for it, but finding a decent sch capable of these things is another story <_< And since past games, RDMs were never given aoe spells, I'm assuming they would be lacking in the department. The same thing can be said of their AOE dps rotation if they were actually implemented as a dps class...

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Originally Posted by Meier

RDM always was a front line job, except for in FFXI.

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And bards sang songs and didn't shoot bows, but here we are.

IIRC, some point during one of the betas, Yoshi-p said something about people requesting a job with haste and how he said we would never see it as a player skill because it would be impossible to balance it with the implemented battle system. If the effect is too weak, no one would use it (like Tri-disaster). If the effect was too strong, mobs would have to be adjusted to compensate (and that class/job would have a guaranteed spot in every party because of it).

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Originally Posted by Adeline

And bards sang songs and didn't shoot bows, but here we are.

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To be fair:

A) Gilbert/Edward from FFIV was a Bard, yet he was able to equip bows (not the most optimal choice, but there you go)
B) FFXIV's version of the Bard job does sing songs; it's just that there aren't many to choose from (4 in total if we count Swiftsong)
C) You could argue that Archer and Bards both use an "string-based instrument" as their weapon, so it kind of fits to combine them

I do agree that Bards need more songs...and the Ranger job needs to be properly introduced later on.

Maybe for the upcoming expansion...?

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Originally Posted by Exodus-E

To be fair:

A) Gilbert/Edward from FFIV was a Bard, yet he was able to equip bows (not the most optimal choice, but there you go)

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It was kinda to go-to weapon before the remakes for backline non-dps (still is? haven't follow DS remake). Rosa's main weapon were bows too. Not that I complain, I honestly wish my WHM could wield a bow like her.

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Originally Posted by Exodus-E

To be fair:

A) Gilbert/Edward from FFIV was a Bard, yet he was able to equip bows (not the most optimal choice, but there you go)
B) FFXIV's version of the Bard job does sing songs; it's just that there aren't many to choose from (4 in total if we count Swiftsong)
C) You could argue that Archer and Bards both use an "string-based instrument" as their weapon, so it kind of fits to combine them

I do agree that Bards need more songs...and the Ranger job needs to be properly introduced later on.

Maybe for the upcoming expansion...?

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This is like when you push phases during t7, and your group is like "frack too much dps"

Too much dps.

Too much dps..Bottom line I'm trying to say is that there is going to be job imbalance as there was in FFXI if they keep spitting out all these DPS classes at us by throwing an idea out there for a job that COULD potentially be a healer if thought out correctly. I'm sure there are many groups atm potentially struggling to replace their current tanks/healers because they are all gonna be Naruto Ninjas once 2.4 hits. If they work on releasing DRK/RDM (?) as something OTHER than dps, it will be a better addition to the overall system, and I guess return the job populace to decent number.

Unless of course, you all want worse DPS ques, then be my guest lol.

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Originally Posted by Adeline

Now let's reverse that and align RDM along the healer route, and give them decent heals (not the BEST but something)

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And then DF gives you two RDMs and you're screwed.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

And then DF gives you two RDMs and you're screwed.

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4 rdm dps gonna be so sweet too

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Originally Posted by Adeline

4 rdm dps gonna be so sweet too

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Which is more likely to happen?

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

Which is more likely to happen?

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Nothing, que won't pop because everyone is playing DPS ninjas/rdms/drks, GGGGGGGG

I feel like Fencer -> Red Mage could potentially be a Magic/Parry Tank - Red Mage has been associated with Duelist and Warlock before and as far as I can tell Rapier/Sabre have always been their distinct weapon. Cross-casting or as I fondly recall it "X-Cast" with access to both White & Black was what made Red Mage's magic fun.

However Yoshi-P has said several times that each Class/Job should feel different and have a "unique" niche to fill. I honestly think that a Red Mage perhaps using (THM/CNJ/ACN) spells to debilitate or damage an enemy while generating enmity through melee/AA and relying on parry based or Phalanx abilities and (CNJ/ACN) recovery magic to mitigate would be something new. Perhaps using stances like Paladin to modify themselves dancing between Duelist and Warlock actively to utilize skills & magic.

Who knows - maybe the cover is just a funny sword...


Also it would be nice to have another class that actively uses their shield - maybe more Bucklers?

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Originally Posted by Adeline

Nothing, que won't pop because everyone is playing DPS ninjas/rdms/drks, GGGGGGGG

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No amount of new jobs is going to change role distributions. People who don't like to tank won't tank. People who don't like to heal won't heal. No amount of new jobs is going to change that.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

No amount of new jobs is going to change role distributions. People who don't like to tank won't tank. People who don't like to heal won't heal. No amount of new jobs is going to change that.

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People like change, not every healer/tank is going to want to do it forever. Especially when the new hip job is out.

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Originally Posted by Dhex

I feel like Fencer -> Red Mage could potentially be a Magic/Parry Tank - Red Mage has been associated with Duelist and Warlock before and as far as I can tell Rapier/Sabre have always been their distinct weapon. Cross-casting or as I fondly recall it "X-Cast" with access to both White & Black was what made Red Mage's magic fun.

However Yoshi-P has said several times that each Class/Job should feel different and have a "unique" niche to fill. I honestly think that a Red Mage perhaps using (THM/CNJ/ACN) spells to debilitate or damage an enemy while generating enmity through melee/AA and relying on parry based or Phalanx abilities and (CNJ/ACN) recovery magic to mitigate would be something new. Perhaps using stances like Paladin to modify themselves dancing between Duelist and Warlock actively to utilize skills & magic.

Who knows - maybe the cover is just a funny sword...


Also it would be nice to have another class that actively uses their shield - maybe more Bucklers?

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Yay someone with ideas~ I mean your concept is similar to PLD from FFXI, but hey it could work.

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Originally Posted by Adeline

Yes but they are introducing too many dps classes if they don't go this route. Too many dps = job inbalance...unless they introduce something like chemist, RDM is the only other option at this point, and makes the most sense considering all the viable jobs throughout FF history. It's going to be bad enough with the launch of 2.4 and the 5 brillion ninjas that are gonna be running around.

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That has nothing to do with RDM at all. It's not RDM's fault SE decided to release NIN early as a way of baiting people to stick around between now and Heavensward's launch.

Besides, there's plenty of other jobs you can sucker--I mean, push into healing. RDM's had too much of that in FFXI and those of us who've been of the melee camp for the last 7+ years would like some actual closure instead of empty promises and videos that show us spamming Haste II in parties instead of, you know, being melee mages.

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Also FF14 operates on a WoW system, with the Dev team confirming there is no intent of adding a pure support class, or a freedom job as you call. Every job they will introduce will have a certain role, either DPS/Healer/Tank.

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That also has little to do with the discussion, aside from the fact that the core concpet of RDM (sword & magic hybrid) best fits as a DPS with utility. WoW did this with Enhance Shaman and Retribution Paladins, which are pretty much the best templates you can hope to use for a modern RDM in a game designed around the trinity.

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I'm also hoping they make DRK a tank, cuz we also need a new tank in this game.

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Samurai has a better chance of being a tank than DRK does. And Soken's sort of spoiled that bit during the NA fanfest. We'll most likely get more details this coming weekend.

PS: you want ideas? Read my sig.

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Originally Posted by XenlanVordal

Pretty sure the one you labelled as Monk is actually the Paladin

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He has Baghnahkhs, so no.

The one labelled Rogue is beautiful *.* She looks far too elegant for that class!