Why aren't there more tanks in FFXIV?

Reward Vs Risk.

Good tanks have lots of thing they need to be doing and DPS have no clue if they never played tank jobs.
Healer have lots of thing they need to be doing but blame goes to tank more often then not if people die.

I don't find tanking any easy simply because, ps4. I've seen people tank on PC and it is very less chaotic. Less movement to do when selecting targets and what not.... Less buttons to work with. More hot bar space on screen.... I can't even move my character properly on pc... lol so switching platforms is out of the question. I've been living with consoles for a long time.

Tanking is fun at times but it drains me and hurts my hand because idk... I button mash if it's not a mage class.... Yeah guys. The more you press the faster your skill speed is!

BAD habit I know. Gg controller.

I would consider PLD as secondary class though. Whm is my main. I'm actually glad to learn how to tank because now I can see the tanks pov in instances/dungeons/coil.

I do not tank for randoms because I read general discussion and do not ever want to end up tanking for some of these people out of principle.

they're now currently on their DPS mains grinding their nexus weaps.

Also amusing is a full FL alliance today with 1 healer, coz everyone on dps main coz nexus xD

Well makes me happy, can't stand healing in pvp, or at least would make me happy if the enemy team had less healers too ofc xD

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Originally Posted by Eclair_Xysha

I can't even move my character properly on pc... lol so switching platforms is out of the question.
BAD habit I know. Gg controller.

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You just need to get used to moving by holding down both mouse buttons and mouse turning. I agree that for some things, a controller is very, VERY comfortable. However, when I hop on my tank, I need precision movement that you can never get without mouse turning.

I think that SE still needs to have another look at low level tanking for Gladiator. Warrior is fine, but most people who want to play as a tank see the Paladin sword and board archetype as the "tank" - but the abilities you get while leveling are nearly all dps centric. Switching Sword Oath and Shield Oath would help. Bring Flash to be on par with Overpower when you are on Gladiator (paladin) main. Little things like that will help...

And don't introduce more DPS classes without more tank classes alongside them. We have enough DPS.

Until you start raiding. Then its almost never tanks, but scholars that are the rarest thing in existence. The different substrata's of the game don't have the same class/job distribution issues. Players who like playing in coordinated teams are more likely to take on the "go bold or go home" roles of tank and healer than other players because the responsibility doesn't phase them. At the same time, they get through all the content so fast that they don't stick around long enough for others who are leveling to benefit from their presence.

So I don't think its that we don't have enough tanks. Its that all the tanks get concentrated at end game because in a game based around grouping, those that group advance quickly.

I don't mind tanking, I specifically run all content for the first time as the tank so I can "control" the group so to speak... Of course this doesn't work so well with 8 person groups and raids, but for most content it seems to work. And of course the daily rewards for being tank are ok as well, but if I can get a chance to be a different class I will. And my WAR/PAL is not even my best geared, still at i80 on them, and have no problem with any content I do... just haven't done coil 5+ and some extremes but that's mostly cause people quit to much in duty finder

I have started leveling both a MRD and GLD and I have noticed that as tanks I need to:

• Know the layout of the dungeons, the adds mechanics.
• I will be blamed for everything, even if its not my fault.
• DPS and sometimes healer do not have any patience and will pull mobs.
• Instead of tips I get insulted, even if I tell other players that I am new to the role.

I have leveled a healer to endgame, so I know the mechanics in dungeon, but what about a new player who started with a GLD and MRD, they will be clueless. One thing that I dont understand is, why insult another player and not give them advice on how he or she can preform their role better? As a newbie tank, I can understand why Tanks are hard to find, it can be stressfull, you will be insulted alot. So why should a new player go tank, when they can go easy face roll dps and follow the pack?

Anyway to end this rant, tanking as a role is easy, but its the other 3 or 6 players who can make it a hell.

Because this is an actual MMO.

There's tanks in the game, most of them just prefer not to tank. Its not because they hate tanking, they just prefer doing everything else.

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Originally Posted by Granyala

They are easy targets, because a fail is MUCH more visible and often wipes the party.
if a DPS derps, he gets an instant rez and everybody forgets about it 30s later.

Personally I love to heal. So exciting when stuff goes wrong, so relaxing if everybody knows what they are doing. You never know what's in the box! :D

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"How did you take all 6 Lustrates and STILL die?!"

Thank you for putting this up, was definitely an interesting read. My advice ( which might have been said already) is to level a healer, dd and tank so that you have a better appreciation of each role. Also even though I have both tanks at i90, I don't ffind myself tanking often simply because the lack of runefencer and how boring the savage blade combo is. < admittingly I'm also addicted to 1.0s warrior playsyle, which is no longer a thing :3 As for the high stress of tanking: I just fall back on my army training push on. When the room is full of spinning mobs, aoe circles and ring o' thorns happy drg theres an odd rhythm that is to me peaceful.

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Originally Posted by Blindheart

And of course the daily rewards for being tank are ok as well

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Am I the only one who thinks the rewards for tanking are a joke?

I main healer but have all jobs at 50. I dont like tanking in dungueons with PUG simply because I dont trust other people healing, I judge them so fast not by the gear they have but their ability to heal.

Leveling a healer has been easier for me than tanking, but I leveled warrior on an alt. And honestly.. No, physically tanking is Not difficult. For me, its the emotional and mental aspect of it. You're running the party, and people expect you to everything their way. Go faster, pull more, more more, and if you don't do it right, some people are not above being complete jerks about it. I only leveled warrior to help my FC. I trust them. i know them. They know I don't do well under pressure, and I feel safe with them.
Pugs?
Heck no.
I'd rather swallow a fist full of molten hot nickels than deal with pugs at max level content as a tank.

I actually enjoy tanking but I detest speedruns, so I only tank for my FC or linkshell. My tanks aren't super geared (i77 pld, i80 war) and my FC is understanding, but I feel like PUGs wouldn't be. Heck, I have that issue with DPS. I feel bad taking my under i90 monk or dragoon into things because people run everything as though they think everyone is above i100.

So, I really appreciate that this thread exists. Originally, I found myself agreeing with most, if not all of what they sated. FYI, I was DPS(THF) in FFXI. in that game, it was up o THF's to set the pace and pull appropriately, and that was my only MMO before coming to FFXIV (1.0) and I only started tanking in 2.0+. I started 2.0 as a Sea Wolf MRD, and I currently still main class Warrior.

But the more I thought about reasons why I don't use he DF . . . the more I realized it has nothing to do with the reasons posted.

I have limited times to do stuff. Sure, everybody blames the tanks for stuff, but I have all of the current content on Farm (Except Savage mode, my group doesn't want to attempt it/waste of time) but I don't want to go into a Duty Finder, end up with DPS who don't know what they are doing, don't listen, have the bare minimum equipment to enter the instance, and take an hour and a half to clear a dungeon. With FC members, I can clear any of the Extreme dungeons in 20 minutes. Plus, we don't need to talk or type out in chat to enjoy ourselves, we use a VOIP (Teamspeak).

I ran Moogle (HM) a dozen or so times last night, and I think I actually caused a bunch of wipes from being overgeared. Second phase, I could easily get King Mog down passed 50% HP before the rest of the part had killed the rest of the moogles, and then he would use his LB and kill us. All because the other tank calls "Shotgun OT" (Tanking WAR & PLD, I kill the WAR before party members come to help me with them)

IDK, Sometimes I just wish we had a built in VOIP we could use. Except that I don't want to VOIP with 13 yr olds, or listen to "MOM! NEED MOAR CHEESYPOOFS!"

With respect to everything you said - I know as an endgame tank, I simply don't do DF's b/c it's a waste of my time. SE incentivizing the DF had me doing it more often for a while . . . then I found alternate methods to make the same amount of gil a reasonably the same rate, by myself. So I make the cash solo. If they up the rewards anymore for playing tank it'll get silly and disrupt the economy I think . . . so IDK.

Most of the tanks in my FC claim it is the easier role out of the tanks/healers and DPS. I actually felt like the OP mentioned from a DPS theorizing about the role and that put me off trying to make a tank but it was the tanks in the FC themselves who said it's not true about the sort of things mentioned here and that being a tank is not hard work or stressful. They said it was an easy and enjoyable job so it has me thinking I might give it a try in future based on what they said. Though they did say you have to have a certain mindset to enjoy it as much as they do.

One thing to keep in mind is if push the angle of something being hard, frustrating and stressful then your contributing to the decline of people who want to fill that role by putting them off it. Maybe my FC tanks are playing mind games with me or maybe they are being honest and right about it but one thing I know for sure is their way is the best way to get more tanks and not making it sound worse than it might be.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

Tanking in FFXIV isn't the hardest thing in FFXIV to do. Its also not the hardest game with tanking. But that makes it no less stressful and no easier to do. It can still be quite intimidating.... *snips excellent post*
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The stress level for tanking is a little more nuanced I believe. Single target pulls are pretty easy to maintain as a tank, It's the group pulls that cause anxiety because you have 10 seconds to establish hate on the pull, and if something goes wrong it deteriorates quickly. I play a paladin so I'll use that as an example. I mark targets to mitigate stupidity but it doesn't always work. There is always one moron who thinks 3 needs to die before 1. Then I pop at least 2 flash bombs and then do a three sword combo on 1, just in time for the AOE attack of target 1. Do I evade it, forcing the lancer to move around so it can keep poking it in the ass or do I try to shield slam it and maintain position while risking losing hate on the target? However, I have to immediately break off 1 to do a three combo on 2 because healer aggro rises on all 3 targets at the same time. Then I go to 3 for the same reason as 2. Now somewhere between 2 and 3 you need another flash bomb because the DPS are already on your ass for hate on target 1 by this point, if they haven't puled it off you already. Of course, there is always the BLM who thinks nuking Fire II is the only way to fly since they seem to enjoy watching you run around like a chicken with your head cut off. So if you comeback to 1 and you still have aggro, congratulations, you did a successful pull. Just 30 more just like it until the end of the dungeon assuming patrols don't come by to say hello, and they usually do.

This is the most stressful part for tanking. Primals and raids have their own issues but it's dungeons where tanks go through their trials by fire. My solution is buffing Flash Bomb's and Sunder's(?) AOE enmity. That initial hate is crucial to establishing hate for the entire battle. Once that is lost, for whatever reason, it causes most of the anxiety for tanks. You remove that problem and tanking will become more appealing to the masses.

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Originally Posted by OldGeezer

-snip-

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Telegraphed aoes can be dodged without moving the mob at all. Since you only have to stay out of the telegraph, once that's gone the mob will do the animation. You can move back during that time and not have the mob move at all.

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Originally Posted by OldGeezer

For conal, yes. For circular you will have to reposition (or eat it) and if the DPS is going all out, transitioning to target 2 can be hectic and that leads to anxiety.

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No, even circular you can dodge and not have the mob move. Unless the circle is huge and animation is very short.

I had never tanked before in an MMO until this one. I picked up the Marauder as my new character for 2.0 and I've been loving it. I grew with it through all the issues at start and was even able to take effectively back when the Warrior was broken. Things have gotten less stressful than they used to be, I can generate threat much better and hold it easier, and it is really fun to play. The thing I like most about Tank is its always a needed and valued class landing me very quick queues. With the way tomestones are acquired, I can gear up other classes while playing this one. Tanking is pretty awesome!

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Originally Posted by ispano

Telegraphed aoes can be dodged without moving the mob at all. Since you only have to stay out of the telegraph, once that's gone the mob will do the animation. You can move back during that time and not have the mob move at all.

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For conal, yes. For circular you will have to reposition (or eat it) and if the DPS is going all out, transitioning to target 2 can be hectic and that leads to anxiety.

I tanked once back in 1.0 and I loved it but sadly never got the oportunity to do it again and now I feel it's too late to try. Since 2.0 launced I haven't touched my WAR or PLD and besides not knowing how to use them now I don't think I could handle the stress of trying to relearn.. I'm happy being a background player.

I'm here, I've just only done like...14 runs total this whole year.
It's fun, but stressful. And the perceived stress often causes me to second guess my actions and mess up, which compounds into more stress and anxiety which snowballs till the final boss of the dungeon when I usually perform my best for some reason.
It's a bit silly. I mean, most of the time the people I play with are either fully supportive or entirely forgiving. I just let the anxiety of letting others down burrow inside and, ironically, cause me to do even worse than I would have if I wasn't worrying about doing well.

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Originally Posted by Souljacker

You just need to get used to moving by holding down both mouse buttons and mouse turning.

I think that SE still needs to have another look at low level tanking for Gladiator.

And don\\'t introduce more DPS classes without more tank classes alongside them. We have enough DPS.

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Oh Lord! Lol! The horrible memories trying to PC. xD Yeah... moving in general is difficult for me... I just couldn\\'t grasp it. :x

I gatta agree that with low level taking is a bit backwards...

After my PLD hit 50, I shelved it. The most stressful part was doing a dungeon the first time, and knowing we might wipe because I didn't know the mechanics. Sometimes, I'd just get lost, lol. Being SCH main is a different kind of stress, but less anxiety because my responsibility is singular, heal and DPS and follow the herd. Being the party leader just isn't for me, I've always played support jobs in other games, but I've been thinking about leveling my WAR. Probably when 2.4 hits, I'll give tanking another go, now that I know the fights a little better.

Tanks, stay awesome. Even if you screw up, you're still better than waiting 45 minutes in DF.

I have tanked in other MMOs and this is the only game where tanks have to wait till after 40 to have their full threat toolkit. In other games, the tanks usually have all of their basic threat generation by 15 or 20, single target, aoe and threat maintenance. I would try and tank but I am reluctant because I watch low level tanks desperately try to hold threat with very little success.

That's a result of leveling too quickly. People do one or two dungeons then FATE grind 20 levels. When they finally return to dungeons, they have more buttons than they know what to do with and they never learned how to maintain hate. You can do what I did which was just use the low level roulette to level your tank. It gives plenty of experience with your weaker abilities so you know to alternate your rotation when things get tougher and new abilities arrive. It's slow but you learn the basics pretty well instead of getting yelled at in Cutter's Cry for being a sucky tank.,

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Originally Posted by Hyperia

I have tanked in other MMOs and this is the only game where tanks have to wait till after 40 to have their full threat toolkit. In other games, the tanks usually have all of their basic threat generation by 15 or 20, single target, aoe and threat maintenance. I would try and tank but I am reluctant because I watch low level tanks desperately try to hold threat with very little success.

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For Paladin, Sword and Shield Oath should be switched in levels.

Some people find tanking boring.

Others, such as myself, have no desire to deal with bad attitudes of others when you don't tank (or heal) perfectly. Those with the bad attitudes don't care if you're new to tanking/healing, they just want perfection.*

*I can understand that in the end game dungeons/raids/trials, but the low level stuff, people just need to unclench their butts and stop behaving like entitled, butthurt brats.

http://i.imgur.com/s1FgHra.png

I plainly dislike several mechanical differences that make it more bothersome than it needs to be. Like there being no aggro threshold to pull and barely having any time to catch an add spawning before it runs off to club someone. Anything with a spell queued up as its next attack will also refuse to break off a target until it reaches them and casts it. There's also that delay before mobs react to threat changes.

I also enjoyed tanking in general way more when there was still a strategic aspect to pulls and dealing with groups. The whole "AoE all day erry day YOLO" just mashes everything in to feeling like the same thing.

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Originally Posted by ispano

Telegraphed aoes can be dodged without moving the mob at all. Since you only have to stay out of the telegraph, once that's gone the mob will do the animation. You can move back during that time and not have the mob move at all.

No, even circular you can dodge and not have the mob move. Unless the circle is huge and animation is very short.

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ispano is actually right about this. As soon as the telegraphs disappear, it is safe to move back into the affected area. Most times the boss will sit there during the animation. And you have time to move back into the previous position, move in front of the arrow on the target ring circle and the boss never moves.

Really need to get a video up showing this.

Another tip, especially with gladiators/paladins in the lower levels. Marking targets works, and many will follow the order. But heals generate alot of threat too initially. To prevent this, there is a few things you can do:

1. Level a Conjurer to 34 and then use Stoneskin before 3+ pulls. This means you don't need to be healed for the first couple of hits and allows you to get some enmity hits in there before the heals do come in.

2. Flash bombs are a waste of time. This is assuming where you go flash flash flash. Instead to get AOE threat. Use Flash, Fast Blade, Flash, Savage Blade, Flash, Rage of Halone. Basically intertwine the flashes and you'll build a solid AOE threat base. Its even enough for stray DPS not to pull for a few rounds. Also it ensures you hold enough threat on your main target.

3. Switch targets before the one you're focusing on is dead. You don't need to kill the mob yourself, thats why you have damage dealers. Feel free to switch at 20% and focus on the next target. That helps immensely when you have heavy dps. In addition you can see how much threat everyone has, if everyone is below half, feel free to switch targets there too and focus on something that needs more attention.

As for warriors and marauders. I don't have enough experience with these. I've been told about 1-3 overpowers and everything is good lol. Someone else can comment on those.

I have all classes leveled to 50 and am working on 4th Animus weapon as PLD (BLM/BRD/SCH for last 3). I will not say tanking is easy or hard. But tanking is boring especially in lower level. I can literally flashing thought the whole dungeon without losing any hate.

Because like in almost every MMORPGs people are afraid to play as tank. They feel tank has all the responsibility of the group and they don't want to feel this extra pressure on them. In this game tanks are easy to play most of the times but playing as DPS sitting back and mindlessly hitting random things infront of you seems easier than tanking. Also many times people are harsh towrds tank's mistakes. This is another reason. Countless times I set marks on mobs and people never follow them resulting on some messy aggros. So when something bites someone else they use to cry and blame the tank. Or the other problem is when you have a new players as tank who is really bad at tanking then you try to explain to him what to do and he seems his eaither dooes not speak English or does not care at all. So you have a raged group who again blame the tank and this time they were right but the tank receives this aggresion only and does not realised the why.

I main PLD and sub WHM. I enjoy tanking the most, then healing, then dps.
Why? Because that is the way I am. I like responsibility and having to step up to the challenge. I also like the fact that as a tank (and healer somewhat) you really have to pay attention to all the details. What is the mob pack makeup? What is the area that I'm fighting them in? Could patrols run into us while fighting and add to the pack? How much MP do the casters have? How fast can the dps down things? How much aoe capability does the party as a whole have? What are the other players doing when I do a pull? Etc. Etc.
These are all things that I look for and take into account when tanking and that is not even taking into account trying to pace out and maximize my ability useage to get the most out of a run or fight. To me and many other tanks these things become so second nature that we don't even think about doing them, they just happen. To someone new to it, it can be very overwhelming.

DPS is much more focused on a single thing, kill mobs quickly. They can focus on that one thing and not have to pay attention to much else and most of the time they will be fine. They can focus on the mob and not have to really worry about what everyone else is doing, unlike a tank.

In a fight the challenge for a dps comes from the monster they are fighting, where the challenge for a tank comes from the other players they are fighting with.

Some people will like having to focus on many things and adjusting to all those variables, many others will not and prefer to be more singularly focused in what they do.

Oh and people can also be really nasty to tanks, especially those that have no clue how to tank themselves.

P.s. This thread probably belongs more in the Tank role section of the forum.

Lack of tanks because community comes down hard on failure sometimes.
Lack of tanks because the tank roles take bland to new levels.
Basically combat in this game is already boring, and tanking is generally boring.
1+1=???? No profit.

P.S lack of tanks because some DPS likes to backseat tank.

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Originally Posted by Mags

I see mostly "tanking is easy" responses. I suppose that is why tanking is not seen much in Duty Finder?

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Heya Mags ^^

The reason Tanks are rare and 'seem' that there is a lack of them: Random players.

As others stated, I can cope easily when a DPS cannot check his own Enmity colour bars, or that we even wipe because of anyone's action, or lack thereof.

What we don't like is when people start bashing on Tanks, or Healers, or Healers on tanks etc..

The best way to circumvent this: FC and friends.

We wipe, no biggie, we'll get him next time.

No harsh words like: man, do you know how to play your role?

Well, comments like that are what's pushing those on the border to help others.. to change idea.

Side note: so far, I must be blessed, I never got any bad complaint whatsoever. Hopefully it will stay the same.

But yeah, with my limited time, I prefer to play with those that make me enjoy the game and feel like I'm having a fun time for my sub, versus feeling empty after a hard day at work.

If I'm not alone sticking to FC, Ls and friends, you have now a better idea why it's rarer on DF.

Side note: I decided to give more love to my bard, no fuss, no trouble as long as you play songs and dps, move and dont die etc.. It's wayyyy more fun, and easy.

for the past 5 years this is the only MMO I've played where the triad roles are strictly followed, yet tanks being the least favorite class seem to be the "norm" across the genre. as I see it, DPS is the most popular role because it seems more fun to pewpewpew than be the meat shield. I don't think people being overwhelmed as the "real" party lead during dungeons is the main reason why we lack tanks, instead it's about play style preference, then the mechanics of the game, and people being mean to one another just adds to the disinterest of the community.

personally, I'm always DPS or support. you can check all my toons in all my games since 2003 and I only have a tank or two, which I never capped because I dislike melee. would I consider tanking here? maybe.

I was maining warrior for a while and a mix of the pressure and just how boring it was to tank at the end of the day made me switch to Monk.

More interesting feedback on the tank shortage. So I am seeing a "tanking is boring" response a bit more. What makes it boring to tank versus DPS or healing? Is the positioning requirements of DPS that much more exciting? Is watching and managing health and status bars more interesting?

I added before I felt overwhelmed as a tank but also once an encounters mechanics are known after a while of doing it, they become trivial. I think, for me, it is the almost needed requirement to study an encounter before playing with others outside friends and FC mates. I like to learn as I do, and it somewhat spoils the moment for me when I need to learn before hand what to do. I understand the need to do so.. as others may be well acquainted with the encounter and want a smooth run. A reason you see people leave a party if a wipe occurs once.