Has the question of how many people have cleared T9 vs. obtained Novus ever been...

I have a feeling the more and more intensive the Zodiac Quest becomes the better it will be.

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Originally Posted by skaterger

It's bad enough. HA weapon does about 5-10 dps more than book of spades. Any worse and it would be inferior to novus ;)

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The difference between High Allagan and a full Det/Crit Novus for SMN is <1%. That's how bad Spell Speed is.

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Originally Posted by Archulak

IMO SS is garbage for BLM if you get 50 more points of it it drops your cast time by something like .05, meaning that in order to get 1 extra cast over someone using 50 less SS you need to cast, uninterrupted, 47 times in a row which would take about 2 minuets of just standing there. Bar T8 when you're not handling any mechanics this never happens meaning any extra dps SS does is basically moot. Also after dropping from 590 crit to about 560 I've seen 1-2% less crits because it starts scaling poorly after 560.

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Good thing that opinions are irrelevant in the face of facts.

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Originally Posted by DishSoap

I have a feeling the more and more intensive the Zodiac Quest becomes the better it will be.

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They totally messed it up because the group they were trying to appeal to with the grind came from a game where everything was done in teams. There are two big groups of players that play social games. You have your type A's that make friends via active guild chat, and then you have the type B's that make their friends by socializing in the openings that used to exist when completing the goals of the game. MMORPGs have become so fast paced that type-B's get left out in the sun to dry by end game. They could have fixed that with the atma/animus/novus grind and they didn't.

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Originally Posted by Fendred

They totally messed it up because the group they were trying to appeal to with the grind came from a game where everything was done in teams. There are two big groups of players that play social games. You have your type A's that make friends via active guild chat, and then you have the type B's that make their friends by socializing in the openings that used to exist when completing the goals of the game. These games are so fast paced that type-B's get left out in the sun to dry by end game. They could have fixed that with the atma/animus/novus grind and they didn't.

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They way I see right now it's the "casual" weapon to get people into raiding and such but as the quest line progresses it could get more unfriendly to "casuals" and become a stronger weapon overall. I don't think it's to much out of left field to do something like this.

I'm going to laugh so hard when the next installment of the Zodiac weapons makes the Relic better than anything obtained from the newly released Endgame raid.

It would be the most brilliant thing ever. All those silly angry teens who care only about e-peen and being jerks towards others for not being as well-geared as they are, suddenly having inferior weapons compared to those "filthy casuals" who grinded out their relic for 5-6 months and millions of gil. I wonder how much their tone will change then. I'm sure all of them will jump over or quit (yay!), but i wonder what things they suddenly have to say to everyone who did grind one out before all that.

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Originally Posted by Dwill

The difference between High Allagan and a full Det/Crit Novus for SMN is <1%. That's how bad Spell Speed is.

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Novus is 44/31 crit/det at 75 mdmg
High Allagan is 46/32 crit/SS 77 mdmg

Taking the stat weights shouldn't it be something like this;

75*6.570+44*0.211+31*0.283 = 510.807
77*6.570+46*.0211+32*0.094 = 518.604

Nearly 8 INT is less than 1% difference? Also, weapon damage for SMN is sad..what a low weighting.

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Originally Posted by Surian

I'm going to laugh so hard when the next installment of the Zodiac weapons makes the Relic better than anything obtained from the newly released Endgame raid.

It would be the most brilliant thing ever. All those silly angry teens who care only about e-peen and being jerks towards others for not being as well-geared as they are, suddenly having inferior weapons compared to those "filthy casuals" who grinded out their relic for 5-6 months and millions of gil. I wonder how much their tone will change then. I'm sure all of them will jump over or quit (yay!), but i wonder what things they suddenly have to say to everyone who did grind one out before all that.

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Would be irrelevant since those people, who I assume you're talking about, are clearing the content that is difficult and those others are not. So the focus will change from, "I'm better geared than you" to "I can beat this and you can't".

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Originally Posted by TheRogueX

It's actually a catch-22: prices are high, so people buy gil from RMT because they need it now and so they buy at those prices. Thus, the sellers are motivated to keep prices high, which continues to motivate people to buy gil.

The only people this doesn't apply to are the people making all the gil from selling these overpriced objects, who can buy whatever they need because they're filthy rich off of their and the RMT buyer's greed and impatience.

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I like how you immediately label all the buyers as gil buyers. Have you taken a look at the economy anytime lately? Have you looked at shard prices? Uncommon low level materials? Gear of practically any level or type? Everything is massively inflated, and that is a combination of desynthesis taking all the excess materials out of the system and SE continuously adding gil fountains since 2.0 without also adding nearly enough gil sinks to compensate for them - which is hilarious, given their stance on gil inflation in the past.

I'm sure there's RMT gil taking its effect somewhere, but just sit down and think about how many thousands of gil you get daily for doing the simplest things - challenge log, roulette, dungeon mobs, daily quests, etc. Now multiply that by however many players are active on your server. Now look at half the responses in this thread. Just what do you do with your gil anyways, besides repair and teleport? Unless you're into vanity or playing the MB, exactly, nothing. Gil continues to build up in the system, which leads to inflation.

On the other hand, I know players who struggled to make more than 1 million gil make it easily now. I make 60k/hour for doing nothing because Grade 3 Shroud Soil is 35k and Grade 3 Thanalan Soil is 25k on my server and both are on a node route I follow anyways. If you're still struggling to make more than a few hundred k in this environment, I don't know what to say.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

Novus is 44/31 crit/det at 75 mdmg
High Allagan is 46/32 crit/SS 77 mdmg

Taking the stat weights shouldn't it be something like this;

75*6.570+44*0.211+31*0.283 = 510.807
77*6.570+46*.0211+32*0.094 = 518.604

Nearly 8 INT is less than 1% difference? Also, weapon damage for SMN is sad..what a low weighting.

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Stats weights on Ariyala are off a little. CRT is closer to 0,25 and Spell Speed closer to 0,07 which is closer to a 6 INT difference. 6 INT is ~4 DPS increase. 4 DPS on an estimate 440 DPS in BiS is a 0,9% increase.

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Originally Posted by DishSoap

They way I see right now it's the "casual" weapon to get people into raiding and such but as the quest line progresses it could get more unfriendly to "casuals" and become a stronger weapon overall. I don't think it's to much out of left field to do something like this.

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To be honest, I think he is confusing games that are subtly entertaining for hours, but use what appears to be repetitive mechanics for massively multiplayer online grind house mechanics. They are the same in repetition, but one facilitates conversation over solo play.

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Originally Posted by Surian

It would be the most brilliant thing ever. All those silly angry teens who care only about e-peen and being jerks towards others for not being as well-geared as they are, suddenly having inferior weapons compared to those "filthy casuals" who grinded out their relic for 5-6 months and millions of gil. I wonder how much their tone will change then. I'm sure all of them will jump over or quit (yay!), but i wonder what things they suddenly have to say to everyone who did grind one out before all that.

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Nice stereotyping. You sound a bit bitter. Believe it or not, some of us that clear coil within an hour or so aren't teens. Some of us even have a novus of our own. Your proposed solution wouldn't really affect who ever it is that you feel looks down on you. They'll "lord" over you with the gear obtained from the hardest content regardless as stated by Exstal. Ignore those type of people.

The whole relic quest line in reality, is for the hardcore people. I'm only still at 4/12 atmas because the grind is just too real. But it doesn't matter, because I have my HA spear and it's definitely better than anything else right now. All I can hope for is that SE continues to keep the best weapons attainable only through raids and the relic quest line just second best ((:

Exactly my thoughts. The amount of time to spirit bond my own materia, or craft and sell items to buy materia, combined with the RNG to meld that materia (if you're going to go through all that, why not go for top stats?), and still not have the strongest weapon in the game... really!? I'd much rather take my 1/9 RNG chance for an HA weapon, especially knowing that the lockout will be uplifted in just a few months to grind it out for the weapon, which will then be once again obsolete with Third Coil out. The soldiery weapon is more than good enough until that drop for me. I'm definitely not knocking anyone willing to go for their Novus, but for someone that only has a few hours a week to play, the Novus is not happening for me, ever.

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Originally Posted by Bushido_Brown

I'd much rather take my 1/8 RNG chance for an HA weapon

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It's 1/9. Arcanist has two jobs.

Also, some of you people in this thread are talking about the issue as if you are "supposed" to get at least one of these alternatives easily. HA is the best in slot -weapon, you will need a group, skills and luck for it. Novus is the 2nd best, you will need time, effort and then some. (But you never need to do anything challenging like raid-content). Your easiest i110 -route is obviously getting the soldiery weapon, which in most cases is nearly as viable as the Novus weapon anyway, and easy to obtain now. Considering the relic weapon will always be updated, even if it's only the 2nd best weapon in any given patch - it is definitely worth it to do.

Seems balanced enough to me.

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Originally Posted by Orlandeu

The whole relic quest line in reality, is for the hardcore people. I'm only still at 4/12 atmas because the grind is just too real. But it doesn't matter, because I have my HA spear and it's definitely better than anything else right now. All I can hope for is that SE continues to keep the best weapons attainable only through raids and the relic quest line just second best ((:

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Way to be a smug asshole about it.

whoops, thanks, forgot they don't share books after darklight (have yet to even start leveling those classes >.<). The Novus weapon requires just the same amount of luck, if not more, since RNG gets to play with your emotions after the first 4 melds (which was the main deterrent for me, no way I'm grinding that much materia with a chance of failing to meld it, and lose it in the process). The 2 options are definitely balanced, but being worth going for the Novus is really just as much of a matter of opinion as the HA weapon is, different strokes for different folks. As of right now, the Novus just seems like a time/gil-sink that adds nothing to the end game storyline, which is just my opinion that no one asked for :p

It's pretty sad when i see someone with a full novus all i can think is "wow, how much did that cost you.."

The prices have certainly reached absurd levels to the point i will never bother with one untill they stablize. and untill SE changes the fact you need consumable materia for them this will never die down.

What really bothers me however is how active RMT will become because desparate people will start buying gill more just to pay these stupid prices. which in turn will just naturally cause inflation and make them more expensive over time.

I think in the end HA weapon is a better investment, on your time and sanity, i'd rather deal with Coil then spend way to much gill for minor increases.

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Originally Posted by Volcano

It's pretty sad when i see someone with a full novus all i can think is "wow, how much did that cost you.."

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Agreed, currently the only wow factor tied to the Novus is realizing how many millions of gil the person shelled out for it.

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

Agreed, currently the only wow factor tied to the Novus is realizing how many millions of gil the person shelled out for it.

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I bonded ALL of my materia used. So it didn't cost me anything. In fact, I had so many Tier IV's left over I made money.

I am perfectly happy with my blm soldiery weapon as atma grind has been a real pain.
I cringe thinking how much money i will spend for my Bard Novus

But the Alagan weapon is a trophy that relic keeps on going. I guess you can rationalize time invested over reward but meh what are you going to do if you're sitting on your hands waiting for the next patch.

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Originally Posted by Black91CRX

I bonded ALL of my materia used. So it didn't cost me anything. In fact, I had so many Tier IV's left over I made money.

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Awesome! I could use your godly luck to get some appropriate IVs! Care to loan it out?

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Originally Posted by Black91CRX

I bonded ALL of my materia used. So it didn't cost me anything. In fact, I had so many Tier IV's left over I made money.

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Just curious, the gear that you bonded for materia, did you craft or buy them? If you crafted said gear, did you gather the materials, or did you buy them? Not trying to sound abrasive, but just trying to say that in the end it all still costs gil, ya?

Either that or people gave the gear/materials to him.

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Originally Posted by Bushido_Brown

Just curious, the gear that you bonded for materia, did you craft or buy them? If you crafted said gear, did you gather the materials, or did you buy them? Not trying to sound abrasive, but just trying to say that in the end it all still costs gil, ya?

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I have a lvl50 GSM and lvl50 Miner. I gathered all my materials (raw spinel, electum ore, wind/fire shards) and crafted/bonded Spinel sets daily while running my roulette's. It was a bit tedious, but it's better than spending a ton of gil. Yes, alot of RNG goes into getting Tier IV's out of spinel gear but I was surprised how often I got what I needed.

You being blessed by the rng gods makes you the exception rather than the norm tho.

I realize it is possible to somehow grind out the materia needed, which is why I'm spiritbinding. However the skyrocket price of IVs goes to show just how many people are shelling out the millions for their Novus, and sadly unless the rng gods forsake you and turn their gaze upon me, I'm going to have to take that route as well and dish out the millions.

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Originally Posted by Orlandeu

The whole relic quest line in reality, is for the hardcore people. I'm only still at 4/12 atmas because the grind is just too real. But it doesn't matter, because I have my HA spear and it's definitely better than anything else right now. All I can hope for is that SE continues to keep the best weapons attainable only through raids and the relic quest line just second best ((:

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lol, same, except i am only at the 2nd book and i decided, no time for this grind.

I see people with 2 novus (there might be more) and i just can't get myself to even complete one animus book. :(

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Originally Posted by SDaemon

You being blessed by the rng gods makes you the exception rather than the norm tho.

I realize it is possible to somehow grind out the materia needed, which is why I'm spiritbinding. However the skyrocket price of IVs goes to show just how many people are shelling out the millions for their Novus, and sadly unless the rng gods forsake you and turn their gaze upon me, I'm going to have to take that route as well and dish out the millions.

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Despite RNG, the ones shelling out millions probably haven't put very much effort into bonding their own materia. Some people just don't have the patience. And don't forget, any crummy materia you get can always be rerolled in Central Than. I got lucky a few times turning elementals into red VI's. And to be fair, I play this game ALOT. So what may seem like pure luck is mostly just tons of time/work. But I enjoy it all the same.

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Originally Posted by Black91CRX

I have a lvl50 GSM and lvl50 Miner. I gathered all my materials (raw spinel, electum ore, wind/fire shards) and crafted/bonded Spinel sets daily while running my roulette's. It was a bit tedious, but it's better than spending a ton of gil. Yes, alot of RNG goes into getting Tier IV's out of spinel gear but I was surprised how often I got what I needed.

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Kudos to you for that. RNG was definitely good to you, perhaps because you rock a CRX, respect :) The spiritbonding I did attempt for a bit (gear and spinel accessories alike) yielded only a few skill speed IVs, and the rest all 3's... gave up. Sadly, with the limited time I have to even play, I'm better off taking my chances in T9 than leveling other classes then gathering/crafting/bonding. How long would it take, say beginning to end, to gather the needed materials, craft, then spiritbond? What stat build did you go for also?

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Originally Posted by Bushido_Brown

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If I had a static coil group, believe me I'd have went that route too. But I'm mostly a solo player in a small FC. It's hard to say how long it took to gather all the materials considering I've been gathering since 2.0 launched. I had most of the shards already stockpiled. As far as my Bow stats go, I went with +35 crit, +20 Det, +20 Acc. Looking back, I wish I had swapped ACC for Skill Speed. My current setup is quite lacking in that department despite being il103.
Oh, and ty for the CRX compliment. I love that car. Been driving it for 16 years!

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Originally Posted by DishSoap

Way to be a smug asshole about it.

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you can call me anything you want and I couldn't care less about it :p
I may sound like an arrogant prick, and believe me I did not intend to, but I'm not spending hundreds of hours grinding for a weapon that is only second best. All I'm trying to get across is that they intend for the whole relic quest line to be an alternative for the casual player and yet there is nothing casual about it.

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Originally Posted by Black91CRX

Despite RNG, the ones shelling out millions probably haven't put very much effort into bonding their own materia. Some people just don't have the patience. And don't forget, any crummy materia you get can always be rerolled in Central Than. I got lucky a few times turning elementals into red VI's. And to be fair, I play this game ALOT. So what may seem like pure luck is mostly just tons of time/work. But I enjoy it all the same.

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I play 5-6 hours a day so I can relate to playing this game alot. Like I said however, unless the rng begins to bless me, the only other option I have is to shell out millions like most of the population. It isn't the time or work needed, it's the rng gamble when converting the gear (which is the time /work part).

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Originally Posted by Surian

I'm going to laugh so hard when the next installment of the Zodiac weapons makes the Relic better than anything obtained from the newly released Endgame raid.

It would be the most brilliant thing ever. All those silly angry teens who care only about e-peen and being jerks towards others for not being as well-geared as they are, suddenly having inferior weapons compared to those "filthy casuals" who grinded out their relic for 5-6 months and millions of gil. I wonder how much their tone will change then. I'm sure all of them will jump over or quit (yay!), but i wonder what things they suddenly have to say to everyone who did grind one out before all that.

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I really don't understand this line of thinking. In my experience the hard core playerbase are among the most mature segment of the gaming spectrum. We have to actually work with other people, for many hours, have tolerance & patience for each others mistakes, as well as have the mechanical skill to do the content.

If you aren't doing raids, then you don't need high end gear. Theres nothing in the overworld that requires more than your basic i90 myth gear, you can craft, level up classes, spirit bind, run dungeons, you name it.

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Originally Posted by Paruza

I really don't understand this line of thinking. In my experience the hard core playerbase are among the most mature segment of the gaming spectrum. We have to actually work with other people, for many hours, have tolerance & patience for each others mistakes, as well as have the mechanical skill to do the content.

If you aren't doing raids, then you don't need high end gear. Theres nothing in the overworld that requires more than your basic i90 myth gear, you can craft, level up classes, spirit bind, run dungeons, you name it.

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Agree, people wanting maxed out gear of the highest order do not even realize they don't actually NEED it unless they are strictly doing coil, i don't even think most people even need anything higher then an animus weapon.

which in turn i laugh at people who insult others over not having maxed out gear when they hardly even do "hardcore" endgame.

In short, when you sit and think about it, no one really NEEDS a novus or HA weapon, but of course if you are doing coil to which those weapons would help you, then you'll get HA eventually.

Keep in mind all this max gear does is make easy content even easier. outside of coil, More room for you to make mistakes

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Originally Posted by Paruza

I really don\\'t understand this line of thinking. In my experience the hard core playerbase are among the most mature segment of the gaming spectrum. We have to actually work with other people, for many hours, have tolerance & patience for each others mistakes, as well as have the mechanical skill to do the content.

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To be fair you work with the same 7 people, even in other MMOs you work within a select group that you progress with. This doesn\\'t make you mature or accepting because you come to expect that level of performance. It is when people fall short of that expectation when outside of the static that those at endgame dog on those who are new.

That isn\\'t all encompassing though, but just pointing out that being in hardcore raiding doesn\\'t breed maturity. You either have it or you don\\'t.

It would be interesting OP, to see the stats on how many people have obtained Novus vs HA weapons. I would assume its somewhere in line with what SE was targeting internally.
I would say anyone who has not gotten to Novus at this point is actually much further behind than they think. Since it is now harder to get Atmas due to less people doing it, and its harder to get Myth now that hunts are nerfed although not much harder.
For anyone who decided not to do it or wait, I would say its probably only going to get worse as time goes on.

I can't wait for the complaint threads when the last Zodiac patch comes out, and its better than everything out there....

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Originally Posted by MythToken

I can't wait for the complaint threads when the last Zodiac patch comes out, and its better than everything out there....

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Unless its required for entry into the "final" raid of the game... don't care...
http://weknowmemes.com/generator/upl...5211465620.jpg

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Originally Posted by Wobble

Getting a UAT in ST and 1300 sol for the tokens is easier and cheaper than novus, I got it on smn but did not go above tier III on crit and Det instead I put the other 19 in acc as I don't use the job for end game, otherwise it would have cost me around 6.5 mil to finish off drift and Det if buying the materia. Also consider the changes to spiritbonding as this is where a lot of us got ours, but now with the changes it's not as easy as it was for us.

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I call lies!
I've been fighting ST for 2 weeks now (26 runs so far) and that silly thing has dropped once!
I hate rng sometimes

Edit: It actually dropped on my 27th run! I rolled 5...

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

I make 60k/hour for doing nothing because Grade 3 Shroud Soil is 35k and Grade 3 Thanalan Soil is 25k on my server and both are on a node route I follow anyways. If you're still struggling to make more than a few hundred k in this environment, I don't know what to say.

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Grade 3 La Noscean Topsoil: 7,000g
Grade 3 Shroud Topsoil: 24,000g
Grade 3 Thanalan Topsoil: 13,500g
Savage Aim Materia IV: 333,000g
Savage Might Materia IV: 500,000g

These are the prices on my server. It must be nice to be on a server where it's so easy to make money.

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Originally Posted by Paruza

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There's a "special" part of the hardcore community, the so called elitists, which also happen to be the most vocal individuals. I think Surian is making reference to these players.

Not all hardcore players care about exclusive content for them, they focus more on enjoying challenges than worrying about what the other people are doing or getting, this unlike elitists, these will protect that content that makes them special with the last bit of their virg... err purity.

You can see some of them arguing a lot in a few threads here.

Its mega RNG whether or not you get the weapon you want form T9. My group has only cleared it 7 times because we pretty much only go 2 days a week so T9 took like over a month to get down. But we seen so many of the same weapon. 3 axs, 2 sch book, drg for the non existant drg. I got the ax for my warrior and however I always play paladin and the sword hasn't dropped.

Thats why I went for novus since its a guarantee you will have a weapon. If HA drops well that will be good but you can never count on it dropping. In Coil 1 we never saw the BLM staff or the Sch book. You have to have something else for weapons because RNG can mean for the entire raid tier you won't see your weapon.