From Mog to you: Darkhold full clear, 4 chests, 20 minutes remaining.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

but it seems that no one wants to actualy kill mobs in the dungeons...and thats a bit disturbing in itself

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One of the main reasons for killing stuff is to get SP. Most people who run dungeons are already rank 50.

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

I actually wondered to myself if he was just mad that his group had been killing everything.

BUT I wont say that out loud.

shi...

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Theres got to be some underlying reason to pick you apart for your wording. It's like when your partner starts attacking you for wearing a certain t-shirt or smoking a cigar. It's never about the cigar. It's about you, mog, being a dog and checking out other women. TheVedis is insecure cause she doesn't feel sexy anymore. Buy her some chocolates so she can just shut up already.

By the by... great video and great run you presented. I'm sure you've helped a lot of the community out with your candid view into your group's strategy. Hell, I know you've helped me rethink some things that I do in my runs. Thanks a bunch. :)

Also we already know that 2 of the normal mobs in the dungeons are actually key placeholder mobs for chests. Now we will find out if we are right about the last one.

Part 4:

Batraal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKDca4QPRVs

(Still rendering)

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

im sure you can see why im hating it though
and im sure im not alone in this

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I'm sure everyone would love to clear that trash for the 100th time in a row. Sounds fun to me.

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Originally Posted by Abella

Anyone who bashes something because they cant do it better is pretty much considered a troll in the forums.

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Not really. It just boils down to difference in opinion. And EACH SIDE dont want to admit the others opinion.
Im assuming vedis doesnt like it cause he doesnt see it as an accomplishment worth posting, since its well aware from both NA and JP sides that the setup is easy mode. While it is a complete dungeon clear and explanations are helpful, i do understand where he is coming from. The 20 min left on the dungeon run speaks about the overall difficulty that was faced.

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but it seems that no one wants to actualy kill mobs in the dungeons...and thats a bit disturbing in itself

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lots of people grind on those mobs. Its good exp and there is more then enough to grind on. But if you have a full party of 50s who get no exp anyways and their intent is to get chests and kill the final boss, there is really no reason to fight the fodder on the way unless you have to.

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The 20 min left on the dungeon run speaks about the overall difficulty that was faced.

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Use the same set up they did and do it all in the same time. Then come back and tell us how easy it was. Ever think that maybe they are just good players?

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Originally Posted by Deceptistar

its well aware from both NA and JP sides that the setup is easy mode.

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For something that is "easy mode" I sure see alot of parties with the exact same setup attempt the dungeon and eat sh*t consistently.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

For something that is "easy mode" I sure see alot of parties with the exact same setup attempt the dungeon and eat sh*t consistently.

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^ That.

Try pugging and see how well it goes. It may be made to look easy, but you need a tight-knit group of people who can react and understand each other under certain pressure points.

Very well done Mog, nice to see that people have a visible goal to beat for the speed run now. :)

Edit:
I find it funny as well that we have to censor certain words on the forums that are used in-game, just thought I'd say that as I've had a post deleted for saying sh*t before.

Thanks for the awesome videos you guys, really helpful stuff.

Now I can't wait to see where this 5th chest is hiding, keep up the good work!

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Originally Posted by Scape

Use the same set up they did and do it all in the same time. Then come back and tell us how easy it was. Ever think that maybe they are just good players?

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

For something that is "easy mode" I sure see alot of parties with the exact same setup attempt the dungeon and eat sh*t consistently.

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This is what i meant by both parties not wanting to admit the other.
Anything that is not an agreement or a praise just ends up with the other party jumping at the others throats.
I have yet to have seen any posts that question the other party, and is NOT replied with either a belittling or sarcastic undertone.

What's the advice for melee?

I'm still trying to figure out what triggers his inferno drop... that always one shots me.

the thing is when you watch a video it looks easy, but that is because they are good players, not because the content is easy. you could try the same set up and repeatedly fail and that is what many groups are doing. my point is everyone calling 3 arc easy mode is full of shit and most likely hasn't even tried it.

after watching these videos, what i found most interesting is that we run the dungeon pretty much exactly as the op's linkshell has and we've had zero contact with them. all it is practice and figuring out what works best...experimenting. linkshell's that just copy get nowhere and will always remain behind.

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Originally Posted by Belial

Try pugging and see how well it goes. It may be made to look easy, but you need a tight-knit group of people who can react and understand each other under certain pressure points.

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Personally, if your aiming for pure speed its another story cause your aiming for the specific classes that can do the dungeon with less heals and most dmg.
But the dungeon itself is not that difficult. I did mine couple of times, each time hosting my own run on the recruit, a JP pick up group. (cause im JP) Most cons i ever had was 2, most archers i ever had was 2. Rest were mixed class. The dungeon is a breeze when everybody paid attention and knew it. We always had ample time for the last boss.(Mr.B) Sometimes we ignore it, sometimes we pick at it. We get it to about half way, but since the set up is not made with intention to kill the boss, you time out. =) We basically spam run these to get chest drops.

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Originally Posted by Deceptistar

This is what i meant by both parties not wanting to admit the other.
Anything that is not an agreement or a praise just ends up with the other party jumping at the others throats.
I have yet to have seen any posts that question the other party, and is NOT replied with either a belittling or sarcastic undertone.

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What do you expect? You're saying stuff like this:

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since its well aware from both NA and JP sides that the setup is easy mode.

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Says who? The only people claiming it to be "easy mode" are those failing to provide any evidence of completion. Meanwhile, all of the decent linkshells are respectful enough to post information they have in regards to the instance. So if you're gonna run into someone's helpful topic to condescend to them about how "this is easy mode" and "youre using this set-up" etc, etc, then yea... you're gonna met with equal aggression. /shrug.

Wow that was impressive, congrats on the run. Thanks for cutting past the final boss kill cutscene for all the people who haven't cleared it yet lol ^^

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Originally Posted by Deceptistar

The dungeon is a breeze when everybody paid attention and knew it.

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^ That's a very important piece to your response. With topics like these, people can go in having an understanding. Coming into someone's topic just to bust their chops about a set-up, when they're providing information for people, makes you a troll...

If the setup was easy mode more than 280 linkshells across all servers would have beaten it.

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Originally Posted by BloodLotus

If the setup was easy mode more than 280 linkshells across all servers would have beaten it.

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That was 280 people, not linkshells. Sorry, not gripin' at ya, just making your point more valid.

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Originally Posted by Belial

That was 280 people, not linkshells. Sorry, not gripin' at ya, just making your point more valid.

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would be 35 groups total. with probably a lot of said groups in the same LS

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Originally Posted by Krausus

would be 35 groups total. with probably a lot of said groups in the same LS

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Likely. Hell, BG's already selling runs on our server, so I imagine some of those numbers are fluffed with people buying runs, or joining an LS run, some successful pugs, etc.

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Originally Posted by Belial

That was 280 people, not linkshells. Sorry, not gripin' at ya, just making your point more valid.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

would be 35 groups total. with probably a lot of said groups in the same LS

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Wow lol...

So ya, it must be really easy with the ranged setup..

We took an extra 3-4 people, one at a time, from our shell that weren't in our static.

So we took 11-12, not 8.

Agreed, its probably a few shells bringing others through.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

so why put mobs in any dungeon ever if they werent meant to be killed

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Hmmm. I thought they put mobs in dungeons to try and kill you. Nevertheless, who cares about semantics. If you get all the stuff from a dungeon and still skipped trash mobs, then you did an even better job!

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

im sure you can see why im hating it though
and im sure im not alone in this

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You've got to be kidding? Upset that others don't do it your way? How about you enjoy how you do it and let others enjoy their way. Who's to say which one is the "right way".

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Originally Posted by Belial

What do you expect? You're saying stuff like this:

Says who? The only people claiming it to be "easy mode" are those failing to provide any evidence of completion. Meanwhile, all of the decent linkshells are respectful enough to post information they have in regards to the instance. So if you're gonna run into someone's helpful topic to condescend to them about how "this is easy mode" and "youre using this set-up" etc, etc, then yea... you're gonna met with equal aggression. /shrug.

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Says pple on the forums JP and NA, and also my own experience when i embarrassed myself a couple times when i tried to make a setup like that and was hinted if i was even capable of running this dungeon with that mindset. At first i thought it was limited to just a few on the forums maybe but then stumbled ingame to a particular group of initial dungeon members picking at the idea. I noticed the idea (about easy) was not so limited when it happened a second time with another group)

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Originally Posted by Belial

^ That's a very important piece to your response. With topics like these, people can go in having an understanding. Coming into someone's topic just to bust their chops about a set-up, when they're providing information for people, makes you a troll...

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Having an understanding does not equal jumping on any post that does not praise and admire you. You need to understand that part. A discussion is something where each side throws in ideas but also be able to catch the others and contemplate on theirs too. Not just throw, and swat the incoming if it doesnt suit your tastes.

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Originally Posted by Deceptistar

Says pple on the forums JP and NA, and also my own experience when i embarrassed myself a couple times when i tried to make a setup like that and was hinted if i was even capable of running this dungeon with that mindset. At first i thought it was limited to just a few on the forums maybe but then stumbled ingame to a particular group of initial dungeon members picking at the idea. I noticed the idea (about easy) was not so limited when it happened a second time with another group)

Having an understanding does not equal jumping on any post that does not praise and admire you. You need to understand that part. A discussion is something where each side throws in ideas but also be able to catch the others and contemplate on theirs too. Not just throw, and swat the incoming if it doesnt suit your tastes.

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You're taking certain things out of context here. It's fine if you provide some constructive criticism, but again, jumping into a thread claiming things are easy, or shouldn't be done that way, without any information to support the theory/idea/etc, it provides no discussion whatsoever, just a baseless comment. It's only bickering and nonsense.

You're agruing with me about something I'm not even commenting about, so I'm unsure why you are even mentioning some of this stuff. I don't care if people praise or condemn, so long as it's constructive.

Also, I know very well what a discussion is, and making that statement goes against what you were saying in your previous post (see; snide remarks). So if you want to take a walk down this road, I'd be more than happy to start dictating definitions to you as well, seeing as how you missed responding to any of my valid points.

Video of a full mele run coming in a few days. No archers, 1-2 CONs,

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Originally Posted by Belial

Likely. Hell, BG's already selling runs on our server, so I imagine some of those numbers are fluffed with people buying runs, or joining an LS run, some successful pugs, etc.

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They do? Haven't seen that yet lol.

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Originally Posted by Petori

They do? Haven't seen that yet lol.

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Full Dzemael Darkhold clear: +7,000,000
Any gear of your choice: +1,000,000 per item

シャウト失礼しますが、だれかダンジョンのクエできたこと必要あったら、「スーパーメガデラックス・ダンジョン・フルクリア・サビス」を７百万ギル売りますよ！テルお願いします（＊’－’）

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sup cuties.

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

Video of a full mele run coming in a few days. No archers, 1-2 CONs,

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poor archers, though I think it is a good idea to have at least one Archer. I think the setup no one can complain about is GLD, PUG, LNC, MRD, ARC, THM, CON, CON. That way you can say everyone is helpful.

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Originally Posted by Belial

You're taking certain things out of context here. It's fine if you provide some constructive criticism, but again, jumping into a thread claiming things are easy, or shouldn't be done that way, without any information to support the theory/idea/etc, it provides no discussion whatsoever, just a baseless comment. It's only bickering and nonsense.

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Not really. Have you not realized that my post is just answering yours? My initial post was a comment in response to why a certain person might be feeling how he is. Apparently pple didnt like anyone even remotely trying to explain for him and pple including you immediately jumped in and nitpicked pieces on a comment.
From there i had to go on to explain why i said what i said, and its come to the point where i can lay out all what i hear and seen but your just complaining for the sake of complaining cause you dont like what you see. Its as if your asking for some kinda big theory, on a casual comment that no one would even question irl (well at most roll their eyes),
(ex: boys are stinky!! girls are chatterboxes!)
and ive tried to keep my posts sarcasm free and explain as best as i can even with the snide comebacks. >_>;;

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You're agruing with me about something I'm not even commenting about, so I'm unsure why you are even mentioning some of this stuff. I don't care if people praise or condemn, so long as it's constructive.

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im just replying to what your posting is all. >.>;

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Also, I know very well what a discussion is, and making that statement goes against what you were saying in your previous post (see; snide remarks). So if you want to take a walk down this road, I'd be more than happy to start dictating definitions to you as well, seeing as how you missed responding to any of my valid points.

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...um no.. im just replying to what your posting is all. Your just blowing it out of proportion and over reacting <_<; i did reply to what you said but i cant help you if you dont want to accept that answer =/ i cant keep on giving you unlimited answers so that one may fit your tastes.

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Originally Posted by DNO

TheVedis is a troll.

Mog great job you COMPLETED the raid and did it with time to spare. Great job.

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This post is accurate.

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Originally Posted by Richardd

sup cuties.

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I pity the buyers if chests give 'em DM.

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Originally Posted by Petori

I pity the buyers if chests give 'em DM.

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We issue refunds if the gear isn't dropped. Been pretty successful thus far with mercs :D

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Originally Posted by Deceptistar

your just complaining for the sake of complaining cause you dont like what you see.

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^
That's different from complaining about someone's class set-up.... how? You're defending someone for something, while condemning another for, apparently, the same act. Tsk.

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Originally Posted by Deceptistar

Apparently pple didnt like anyone even remotely trying to explain for him and pple including you immediately jumped in and nitpicked pieces on a comment.

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You responded to my comment first sir, and only part of it at that, I'd suggest taking your own advice.

Now, I understand you said earlier that you were JP, and I'm not saying this to be rude, but you clearly do not understand what I'm telling you. So at that, I bid this conversation adieu.

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Originally Posted by Richardd

We issue refunds if the gear isn't dropped. Been pretty successful thus far with mercs :D

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Oh I see. Well that is certainly fair.

Yeah, it really seems as if strategies between LSs are pretty similiar if they know what they are doing and got some "theorycrafting" going on.

Our LS didn't do nearly as much runs as most of the hardcore shells, but it took just a few tries on Ogre to figure out what would work well. We started off with just random positioning on first tries, then switched to 2 set camps after and got him down. Sometimes I got killed running between those 2 camps though, cause of healer repositioning and being out of range to me while doing that, so the next step was to figure out how to avoid that and then we figured out it would prolly be best for the tank to seek out one spot to stay at and let the rest of the group reposition only while staying in range to me all the time. Worked out really well, Ogre became a joke and now it's all about Batraal.

If people are able to think, it's really not that hard to figure out strategies. I mean, the first time we reached Batraal ever, we only had 4min left but in those 4 minutes we already figured out that tanking him South East is the best choice, cause we saw that the eyes never leave the great room, so why position yourself there, if you can avoid them. Next step was to figure out how to deal with the skeletons during the fight. 2 choices, keep them seperate and focus kill them or zerg them in one spot with AoE. We decided for the zerg them in one spot strategy and just spam AoEs. One downside on that strategy is, on the last skeleton spawn phase that puts you under danger, cause IF the 3 skeletons all AoE at once, this can become an instant wipe. We had 2CON 1 THM on our 3 real Batraal tries we did so far and on our last try we reached the last phase and got him to around 35%. We weren't prepared for the massive dmg increase on me as a tank in that moment, so the THM from the add group helped my CON healer to keep me alive, putting the add group at risk with one healer only and it happened, all 3 skeletons used their AoE and almost the whole add group died except for 2ppl. After that incident we decided to take 4 casters on the next run, so we have 2 healers on the tank and 2 healers on the add group. And another thing I had to figure out on tanking Batraal was, that once he is in phase 4 you can almost avoid all high dmg attacks from him, but facing it the first time that's kinda rough to figure out instantly, so I think on our next few tries he should definetely go down easily.

It's all about the skill of ppl and them paying attention. If that's given, the dungeon really is not a big deal, but as it is in most MMOs, it is here as well, most people don't have the skill and will never be able to get it cleared(at least for a while)
Those peolpe are the ones trolling others for using "easy mode" setups. Sorry, we are not using "easy mode" setups, we are using the most efficient classes we have available and it's not our fault that almost our whole endgame members got 3-4 battle classes at 50. If you are not able to get it down with other setups, then figure something out, the people who are able to figure out stuff can't babysit everyone.

Thank you Doctor Mog! At the very least, I appreciate it. :)

change to this, last one is a bit weird...:
シャウト失礼します!ダンジョンのクエクリア必要あらば、「スーパーメガデラックス・ダンジョン・フルクリア・サービス」を７百万ギルで売ります！各希望装備百万ギル。興味ある方テルお願いします（＊’－’）

Excuse for shout! Selling "Super Mega.....Service" 7m for dungeon quest clear. 1M per item lot. PM if interested.

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Originally Posted by Belial

^
That's different from complaining about someone's class set-up.... how? You're defending someone for something, while condemning another for, apparently, the same act. Tsk.

You responded to my comment first sir, and only part of it at that, I'd suggest taking your own advice.

Now, I understand you said earlier that you were JP, and I'm not saying this to be rude, but you clearly do not understand what I'm telling you. So at that, I bid this conversation adieu.

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I rest my case for you... your picking things apart so much that you dont even know what your talking about anymore much less what the other person is...and your wondering why >_>; add to that, nowhere in my post did i state the setup was bad or anything, and to top it off your blaming your own assumptions and confusions on other pples race >.>;
good god...

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Originally Posted by Deceptistar

change to this, last one is a bit weird...:
シャウト失礼します!ダンジョンのクエクリア必要あらば、「スーパーメガデラックス・ダンジョン・フルクリア・サービス」を７百万ギルで売ります！各希望装備百万ギル。興味ある方テルお願いします（＊’－’）

Excuse for shout! Selling "Super Mega.....Service" 7m for dungeon quest clear. 1M per item lot. PM if interested.

I rest my case for you... your picking things apart so much that you dont even know what your talking about anymore much less what the other person is...and your wondering why >_>; add to that, nowhere in my post did i state the setup was bad or anything, and to top it off your blaming your own assumptions and confusions on other pples race >.>;
good god...

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I didn't say you said anything about class set-up, I said you were defending someone who did.
But thank you for proving my point.