So I just finished leveling ARCANIST to 15 to be a Black Mage...

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Originally Posted by Alukah

Uh okay, I was coming more from the PoV of someone who just started leveling a caster or just started the game, not someone who is used to end game caster stuff...

I mean the quest that requires THM 30 and ARC 15 is not going to be done by someone who raids with BLM.

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don't need to be high level to know ACN stand for arcanist since the Weathered Grimoire (the level1 book you get when you unlock the quest) description say ACN/SCH/SMN

leveling up ACN will let your BLM heal yourself. It's very useful.

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Originally Posted by TheRogueX

The same logic that made Archer turn into Bard.

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Hey, he used to be an adventurer like you before but then he took an arrow to the knee. That's why he's a bard now. Simple logic.

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Originally Posted by Ayamia

Hey, he used to be an adventurer like you before but then he took an arrow to the knee. That's why he's a bard now. Simple logic.

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Technically he's a bard because he didn't put enough arrows into knees.

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Originally Posted by Rjain

You're going to have to level more things a lot more than that to get the full use of your black mage.

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I guess so. Like I said, I'm not so mad over having to play both the classes to 15 as I was to have to go through 1-3 more hours before I'd be able to start Black Mage. I was also having some uncharacteristically bad lag last night, so it made leveling (especially as ARC) really difficult at times. I think it was totally worth the wait though, the startup quest cutscenes were super cool.

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Originally Posted by Dark-Saviour

And made mathemagicians into biomancer's/cabbit summoners. The latter of which is treated like, "Obviously this is the pinnacle of our art. Because reasons."
And turned conjurers that focused on elemental spells into healers.
And turned thaumaturges, that supposedly focus on manipulation of aether within an individual, into elementalists.


And then there's the whole "Scholars has faeries for some reason, so having a faerie makes you a scholar, ya know?"

Honestly, the way the lore/class descriptions are written, basically...
Conjurers should have been closer to what thaumaturges currently are.
Arcanists in their current form are more like what thaumaturges should be, or, in a pinch, thaumaturges could have become healers.
And the summoning ability arcanists have doesn't really suit anything.

Long story short, don't try to make sense of classes and jobs too much. They just kind of end up being whatever SE wants them to be, because "why not"?

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Always felt this was strange, yeah.

Arcanists sound like they would do something with the arcane, dark evil arts, like "black magic" or so.
Conjurers dont sound like healers, they sound like someone who would use "Summoning" since that's what conjuring is.
And then there's Thaumaturges with Thaumaturgy, the ability normally possessed by someone who is a saint to perform miracles (of healing?).

These jobs always sounded like they were labeled completely the wrong way around. It's almost like saying a Monk is a Bard, or a Paladin is a Dragoon in my view. It's so incredibly flawd yet people blindly accept it.

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Originally Posted by Hik0

don't need to be high level to know ACN stand for arcanist since the Weathered Grimoire (the level1 book you get when you unlock the quest) description say ACN/SCH/SMN

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That's... way too far from the point, when you change to ACN it will say ACN under your exp bar, I never said the term ACN was hidden or that you have to be lvl 50 to know what an ACN is, but for a new caster or a new player to get used to the difference between ARC and ACN right off the bat...

The post I was replying to said people should be used to the term ACN listing examples that non-casters would rarely pay attention to, and that new players would have zero knowledge of (Vanya,Cashmere,Levi,T5,Allagan + High Allagan), note that we're talking about a level 30 THM learning lvl 1 ACN/ARC.

I do agree with their post that a lvl 50 BLM or SMN should be used to the term, but that doesn't apply for this case (30 THM / 1 ACN)

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Originally Posted by Dark-Saviour

Long story short, don\\\\'t try to make sense of classes and jobs too much. They just kind of end up being whatever SE wants them to be, because "why not"?

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From what I heard from a friend, and the little I remember from early 1.0, conjurers used all the element magic. They were closer to DDs than just straight healers. THM used more dots. Both had cure magic iirc. So their abilities made way more sense lore wise but it was changed when jobs were implemented by Yoshi in later patches iirc

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Originally Posted by Surian

Always felt this was strange, yeah.

Arcanists sound like they would do something with the arcane, dark evil arts, like "black magic" or so.
Conjurers dont sound like healers, they sound like someone who would use "Summoning" since that's what conjuring is.
And then there's Thaumaturges with Thaumaturgy, the ability normally possessed by someone who is a saint to perform miracles (of healing?).

These jobs always sounded like they were labeled completely the wrong way around. It's almost like saying a Monk is a Bard, or a Paladin is a Dragoon in my view. It's so incredibly flawd yet people blindly accept it.

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Because they are a remnant of 1.0.
In the beginning of 1.0 THM was a priest that used both light and darkness elements ( Nald'thal priests to be more specific ), while conjurer was using all elemental magic, being a mage of the spirits he calls the elements to help him and therefor is a conjurer, we don't know what ACN was supposed to be though. Maybe non elemental magic ( as they are now, more or less ).

During 1.0 they changed that and the lore, but not the names, therefore THM became servants of Thal ( or Nald, don't remember ) the avatar of Death and destruction ( while Nald is life ) and became BLM. Conjurer used the more natural elements ( Earth, wind, water ) and healing ( nature=> nice people => healing ) and became WHM.

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Originally Posted by lololink

Because they are a remnant of 1.0.
In the beginning of 1.0 THM was a priest that used both light and darkness elements ( Nald'thal priests to be more specific ), while conjurer was using all elemental magic, being a mage of the spirits he calls the elements to help him and therefor is a conjurer, we don't know what ACN was supposed to be though. Maybe non elemental magic ( as they are now, more or less ).

During 1.0 they changed that and the lore, but not the names, therefore THM became servants of Thal ( or Nald, don't remember ) the avatar of Death and destruction ( while Nald is life ) and became BLM. Conjurer used the more natural elements ( Earth, wind, water ) and healing ( nature=> nice people => healing ) and became WHM.

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So it's 1.0 logic then? That explains everything to the fullest. @_@

(I didn't play 1.0, forgive me)

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Originally Posted by lololink

During 1.0 they changed that and the lore, but not the names, therefore THM became servants of Thal ( or Nald, don't remember ) the avatar of Death and destruction ( while Nald is life ) and became BLM. Conjurer used the more natural elements ( Earth, wind, water ) and healing ( nature=> nice people => healing ) and became WHM.

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The class stories at the beginning of 1.0 were the same at the end of 1.0
What changed was the skills and some NPCs who gave you soul stones.

As example, in the first CNJ quest at level 30 you needed to fight against different elementals and you did more damage if you fight with the right element spell. The quests didn't changed after CNJ lost fire, ice and lightning spells.

Someone had mentioned it and I agree, I'm pretty sure Archer is the class you need because the abilities you get from it actually are intended to help with DPS whereas the Arcanist skills are intended for support. From what I remember of the initial dev talks about it, the intent of the cross-class skills for the jobs was to make sure you have an understanding of the armory system and provide you with skills that will reinforce the intended role of your job. I think the only miss in this regard is Paladin but it barely relies on cross class skills in the first place.

Also please don't heal anybody on BLM if you have a healer in the party. It's pretty terrible and any time you are not nuking things is significant DPS loss which is why you are there in the first place.

I think they should just change the abbreviation for archer to ACH.

And if we're talking about secondary classes that make no sense , wasn't the secondary for WHM in 1.0 pugilist or something? Lol.

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Originally Posted by Frisque

I think they should just change the abbreviation for archer to ACH.

And if we're talking about secondary classes that make no sense , wasn't the secondary for WHM in 1.0 pugilist or something? Lol.

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Gladiator.

It used Gladiator and Pugilist for the self-defense buffs which actually were pretty useful.

I simply levelled every class to 15 before I went for specific jobs. Problem solved :P