WHY ARE YOU PLAYING A BARD IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO SING?!

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

People are reading this because they are insecure about their job performance, like claire above who posted several times in this thread to (unconvincingly) reassure us that they are not mad. The point of the thread should be to talk about how bad bards who don't sing are, who are bad and people who play any job and are confident in their job don't get upset over it. If there was a thread about black mages who are garbage at their job as a black mage main you'd see me there joining in. Man so many black mages are embarrassing at their job, and I enjoy having a conversation about it, and I won't start lashing out because I don't have anything to defend.

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I see. Sort of. I still don't fully understand how being insecure could lead to some of the replies here. They have absolutely nothing to do with what the OP said. Oh well.

To be more on topic, I've lost track of how many BRDs I've come across who never sing.

To answer the 'why don't you sing' argument, I've had it happen where people complained at me songs and not. Like a Stone Hell run where they complained about lack of Foe's... I've never had anyone ask for Foe's before. Ever. It was so very out of the blue. I've had people complain about me playing a song, "Why are you singing, the healer has over half their mp left." Like the damage reduction from singing was the deciding factor in winning the fight. Literally, you can't win so I prefer to wait for when people ask so that there's no reason for anyone to complain, someone asked so it was clearly wanted.

My favorite has to be: Get into EXDR as blm, get bard as dps partner, don't really care whether if I get songs or not, so I didn't check party list and I have other player debuffs filtered and I didnt have to look at my own status since I'm aoe-ing and don't get procs from it. Halfway through the dungeon see a song icon on the party list I've never seen. I thought it was battle voice but it was strangely very light in yellow. Mouse over and...it's paeon. I looked at my tank and he's a paladin. I start looking around across pulls and while the blm and pld is using mana, the healer is also using mana so I can only come to the conclusion he's only using paeon for himself...in the middle of battle, to prolong his weakened aoe or something.

It wasn't just one bard too.

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Originally Posted by Yoninxi

I've seen enough bards to know what/how they do what they do

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So many bad tanks that started as Healer/DPS believed the same thing. Just because they watched something, they thought they could do the same. So many deaths.

As people have said, you have good and bad bards/players everywhere. I try to keep an eye on MP and cast ballad when necessary, or use Foe's when we're caster heavy, etc. (Plenty have told me I'm a terrible bard because I do this.)

My favorite was during an ST run when a fellow bard used literally no songs other than Paeon when their TP ran out.

So Claire posted that there are bad players in every job and now every one is raging at her since there is no more point to another QQ thread?

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Originally Posted by PArcher

I see this too often, guess no one got the memo that resistance down debuffs ([...] Foe's) don't affect DoTs.

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It would appear you are the one who didn't get the memo about Foe Requiem increasing the damage for both the initial hit on application as well as the actual DoT -ticks.

I think Bard suffers from the name they have (Bard). In FFXI Bard was all about singing (and a dps BRD was a joke). In FF14 BRD is trying to be a dps (and very often fails, unless you are actually good).
Bard doesn't have enough songs to be a proper support class so you end up just DPSing (i.e. be Archer) and forget to pay attention to things like "how low is the MP" (and be a brd). (Poor design maybe, or maybe they are holding back for the future level increase)

Should Bard ballad between pulls? Well it really depends what kind of pulls the tank is doing. If he is pulling 3 mobs at a time... maaaaaaybe not. If the whole dungeon goes in 3 pulls, then hell yeah cos you have time to do it.
WHM however on a dungeon run should not run out of MP even with HOLY spam... but that is a different topic. Imo. let the BRDs dps in dungeons while they can, in coil they are TP and MP jukeboxes anyways.

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Originally Posted by Mamba

WHM however on a dungeon run should not run out of MP even with HOLY spam...

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...........I don't even know how to reply to this one

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Originally Posted by PArcher

guess no one got the memo that resistance down debuffs (Dis, DK, Foe's, Eye) don't affect DoTs...(EDIT: This is also why I don't really care if Foe's isn't up for a lone SMN with other Phys DPS in a PUG/DF

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Actually, this means that you need to pay more attention to Requiem because you should have it up and on before the Summoner engages or it'll go to waste.

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Originally Posted by reality_check

...........I don't even know how to reply to this one

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Well, imo WHM should always have a reserve to cast at least one heal as they are healers in the end of the day but I don't know what you had to say about it as you don't know how to write it. Cheers for the useless reply though ;)

(And PS. I actually liked your OP, you brought up some valid points)

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Originally Posted by PArcher

I have a macro on WHM for Manasong. Spam macro...no Ballad. See BRD with full mana, trying to ignore the fact that the tank is dying too fast cause I had to rez two of the other DPS and our other Heal...

Also have a Paeon macro for my melee...oh look, BRD has no mana cause we have a SCH as our healer and Foe's is up while we try to AoE...I see this too often, guess no one got the memo that resistance down debuffs (Dis, DK, Foe's, Eye) don't affect DoTs...(EDIT: This is also why I don't really care if Foe's isn't up for a lone SMN with other Phys DPS in a PUG/DF. Rather save the BRD's mana in case the fight goes bad and healers get near OoM rezing than boosting Fester damage by 20%...)

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Except that Foe's Requiem actually applies for Summoner's DoT if Requiem is on the target before the DoT's application ?

No wonder that almost no bards sings Requiem if most of them think like you do.

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Originally Posted by PArcher

guess no one got the memo that resistance down debuffs (Dis, DK, Foe's, Eye) don't affect DoTs...(EDIT: This is also why I don't really care if Foe's isn't up for a lone SMN with other Phys DPS in a PUG/DF. Rather save the BRD's mana in case the fight goes bad and healers get near OoM rezing than boosting Fester damage by 20%...)

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Foe's affects DoTs if you use it before they start casting DoTs.

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Originally Posted by ClaireAbigail

What's the matter op? Is there anything wrong with what I said? Does it bother you? Please I beg of you let me know instead of doing something original like responding with a gif. If you don't get any of said things I would gladly explain it.

Wanna hear a plot twist? My main is my whm. I've had my share of bad bards, tanks, healers, you name it.

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Why are you being so defensive? It's not like they are calling out all Bards. Yes there are bad players for every role, but this thread is specifically about Bards who never play songs.

As a main WHM MP is only an issue when spam raising, or solo healing in aoe heavy fights, like EX Titan or levi. as examples. keep in mind ballad DOES lower BRDs already weak DPS. SO you are asking them to give up a lot for situational issues, If you see a lone WHMs mp very low on MP you ballad as if they cannot heal you cannot win, at that point dps does not matter if no one will be alive soon.

In other words Use commen sense, shaking your fist at a brd telling me "sing me songs grrr!" isn't going to help much, most of the time a bard never has to ballad me and we get along fine, because i don't mindlessly drain my mp over curing.

Foes on the other hands, that is something i see BRDs doing if most of the DPS are BLM.

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Originally Posted by ClaireAbigail

Nah I get plenty of hugs already. I'm quite a cheerful and lovable person. Can't you tell?

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No. /10Chars

Only Thing to say about this Thread,like every other Thread where People play bad:
This Casual Game is not casual enough for Casuals.
Because People obviously cant read their Skill Descriptions and comprehend.Everything's so easy in this Game..but like always:Weak People make it hard for you ~.~

It truly is amazing. Did ST last night on blm with my blm guildie, tons of bards, no requiem. Even after we repeatedly asked for it.

I'm of the impression there are a number of different types of bards:

1) I play bard because I like archer, and I dont know ( or maybe like to ignore ) the fact it is a support class. Wtf are songs-bards.

2) I play bard to do crazy damage, why should I waste 2 seconds to raise casters dps, it will waste my own dps time!. Delusional bards.

3) that I/100 who sings. the 1/200 who turns off requiem after pulls. the 1/1000 who uses battle voice (!)

Bards have terribad dps ( imo ) if they aren't supporting. Me and a friend were messing with the ol' abicus recently, was surprised to see sch pulling out 220 dps ( i90 ), and this isn't a hundred miles away from bards dps. It's worth requieming the sch, so why not requiem the godam blms and smns pulling 400+ dps?

the conclusion has been reached, 99% of bards don't sing.

Both healers have ways to get mp back. In many parties you won't have a bard. With proper mp management you will never need ballad. A lot of bards do not want to use ballad because it lowers their damage by 20%. Proper MP management should be used instead of asking for ballad.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Both healers have ways to get mp back. In many parties you won't have a bard. With proper mp management you will never need ballad. A lot of bards do not want to use ballad because it lowers their damage by 20%. Proper MP management should be used instead of asking for ballad.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Proper MP management should be used instead of asking for ballad.

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The only scenario in which I feel a ballad is truly needed is after +3 deaths, with SoS & x-ethers on CD. I get embarrassed if I was personally dead and hope SoS would be sufficient but usually a kind bard plays a ballad for me.

Ballad wouldn't have been implemented if there wasn't a need for it at all.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Both healers have ways to get mp back. In many parties you won't have a bard. With proper mp management you will never need ballad. A lot of bards do not want to use ballad because it lowers their damage by 20%. Proper MP management should be used instead of asking for ballad.

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http://media0.giphy.com/media/10uct1aSFT7QiY/200_s.gif

Haha, well, to be fair, BRDs should know when to use requiem, that's for sure, but about mage's ballad, I think a WHM should have a <se.1> ballad macro, it really helps a lot. I mean, it is very obvious a WHM is going to struggle with his mana after holy spam, but in the middle of a heated fight, you are not very aware of how much healing that WHM is doing or if he needs ballad, you are basically focused on your BRD rotation (*trollface* I know).

You can't manage your MP with Holy spam without Ballad. If there is no Ballad you can Holy like 2-3 times on every group, and you will run out of MP quickly, if there is ballad you can pretty much spam Holy until they die.

With Foe my Holy can do over 1200 dmg *per mob*, just to give you the idea of how it can speed things up for the party. Of course the choice is on the Bard, but you can't say Holy doesn't speed things up by a lot. (or you can, but it's not true lol)... ( > . >

Also let's not forget the stun, which saves MP on heals. if you time Holy right, it will stun the enemies and instead of spending MP on heals you spend to dmg the mobs PLUS prevent the tank from taking dmg for a few seconds.

After all that said, my opinion is to let Bards play how they want. But I won't lie - it's nice to have a singing Bard that knows his sacrficed DPS multiplies when he supports the party.

The 1/1000000 who casts armies paeon ......

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

The 1/1000000 who casts armies paeon ......

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I didn't even know this spell existed until like 6 months into playing the game.

Another 6 months later I still trip every time I see that elusive little buff icon appear.

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Originally Posted by reality_check

I didn't even know this spell existed until like 6 months into playing the game.

Another 6 months later I still trip every time I see that elusive little buff icon appear.

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A drg and monk personally thanked me for using it one time....quite elusive indeed lmao.

I can understand complaints if you aren't using Requiem, because that should be the first thing used if you have casters in the party because it doesn't affect the BRD's damage. But Ballad does affect damage, why loose 20% damage per BRD if a healer is ok for MP, BRD's also don't need to be staring at the party list to wait for MP to drop. The WHM should be the one concious about their MP so they should hit the Ballad please macro.

Now onto Holy spam, I don't see it much playing, it's not something I expect to see in a dungeon run, now if other BRDs weren't expecting it that's probably why you didn't get the songs, I don't use Requiem without casters in the party, and I would cast Ballad if needed, that's why you didn't get your songs, WHM is not what we see as a caster, they are a healer, if the BRDs expected you to heal you won't have got Requiem without asking because it would be a waste of MP.

I play both WHM & BRD and I don't care.... If I do holy spam I'll take care of my own MP and when I play BRD I only mind my own DPS so no song for ya!!

healers can manage their own MP if they know how to do it.

Well, it's not just a matter of having BLMs in party and using Foes. What if without BLMs are close to stealing hate from the mobs? Because they don't have/or use Quelling strikes. Foes would push them past that, WHM on 50% mana? How much HP has the mobs/boss got left? 30% or less? No reason to use ballad.

Not a simple matter if A do B, have to take into consideration C also. ^_^

But if healers need a mana boost BRD can easily pop ballad+BV then drop ballad after BV expires to give them a helpful top up with out affecting their DPS too much. Also I've seen many WHM not pop SoS at all.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

I play both WHM & BRD and I don't care.... If I do holy spam I'll take care of my own MP and when I play BRD I only mind my own DPS so no song for ya!!

healers can manage their own MP if they know how to do it.

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Well tbh there's only difficulty in conserving mana when the tank and/or healer are low geared. Having to rez or excessive usage of high mana cost heals do cause mana issues, but that's down to player abilities.

Then there's the last turn of SCoB. Which has a LOT of really heavy spike damage, not just on the tank, but the rest of the party also. Which does take practice for the WHM to not burn through their mana too fast during even the first phase.

But SE pretty much designed it that BRDs support abilities, whilst useful at times, are not a definitive need to allow mixing jobs for content instead of having to have one specific job for everything.

So.... What do you do when there is not a bard in the party? I see so many people complain about not getting bardsong, but it makes me wonder how they survive without a bard.

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Originally Posted by Blindheart

So.... What do you do when there is not a bard in the party? I see so many people complain about not getting bardsong, but it makes me wonder how they survive without a bard.

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When you don't have Bard in party, you play differently.

I love it when people like to spit out their opinions about something that's not related to the thread. Oh wait, I'm doing it too. :)

Dat feeling when there are like 5 bards in syrcus tower and none of them is playing foe for the casters..

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Originally Posted by Sayori

Dat feeling when there are like 5 bards in syrcus tower and none of them is playing foe for the casters..

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5 bards = 0 casters. I c wut u did thar

I main bard, and I am always mystified by bards who are weird about using their job's utility. Healer is struggling with MP? Play ballad, possibly with BV to really top them off quickly. Doing a speed run with a warrior and a melee? Play Army's Paeon to keep their TP up for overpower and rockbreaker spamming. In a run with big pulls and a blm in the party? Let the tank group them up while you pop Foe's Requiem. Yes, they should be able to do the run without a bard, but if you're there, why not help? It's not complicated, and it's not unfair or selfish of the group to ask that of you - it's your job, and no one's going to freak out because you don't crank out the top dps of the group.

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Originally Posted by Appleh4x

5 bards = 0 casters. I c wut u did thar

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Requires 1 bard to sing for the whole alliance to get foe.
Last time i checked ST required 15 DPS

I don't main brd, so I'm guilty of sometimes forgetting to use requiem! Sometimes I just forget. A simple 'can I have a requiem, please?' Is normally all it takes to resolve this issue!

I know I shouldn't *need* to be told, but there you go, sht happens :/ sometimes we like to take a break from our mains and therefore might not play quite as effectively.

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Originally Posted by Sayori

Dat feeling when there are like 5 bards in syrcus tower and none of them is playing foe for the casters..

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This! 100x this! It always frustrates me when my Foe's ends and then I watch the other bard/s in my group sit there with their full mana. Even if there are no casters in your party, you should still be playing it if there's even 1 caster in the alliance. It saves everyone's time and it's not like you need the mana for anything else... and the animation is cool :>

I think that, because songs are so often not even needed some bards forget to use them when they would be useful.

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Originally Posted by Sammich

This! 100x this! It always frustrates me when my Foe's ends and then I watch the other bard/s in my group sit there with their full mana. Even if there are no casters in your party, you should still be playing it if there's even 1 caster in the alliance. It saves everyone's time and it's not like you need the mana for anything else... and the animation is cool :>

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You do realise that playing songs lowers your DPS, right? That might be a factor.