Benediction

Benediction used to be a 2 hour ability in final fantasy xi. So 5 mins is just fine by me. lol Thought that's just my experience from transferring out of FFXI into FFXIV 1.0+ lol That spell is powerful, being less than 5 minutes is a bit too much. Only thing I do have a problem with it-- as well as some other spells. I don't know if this is intentional or it never been addressed. Though it takes quite a delay to do it's job when cast. I've seen it go off and heal the player targeted and yet fail, as it has like a 1.8 seconds delay in between the instant cast and healing the hit points. That make it not really a "Instant" Same with "Hallowed Ground".

So Benediction is pretty good as it is, excluding the awful cast on it and getting the hit points "Instantly" ;__;

5 min is too long. Benediction is powerful, but not so much so that it deserves that kind of cooldown. SE sometimes forgets that overly long cooldowns just aren't fun. It's like getting 50 DRG and finding out that your super-cool, non-gamebreaking Dragonfire Dive is on 3 minute cooldown.

If you're going to make players wait 5 or more minutes for skill reuse, it needs to be a game-changing strategy. Full heal sounds like (and is) a strong ability, but not so much stronger than what can be accomplished every minute with Swiftcast if so desired. Healing a tank from nothing to full is great, but usually the tank isn't in serious trouble unless the party is in trouble already. Benediction is fairly useless if everything goes according to plan, actually.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

If you're going to make players wait 5 or more minutes for skill reuse, it needs to be a game-changing strategy. Full heal sounds like (and is) a strong ability, but not so much stronger than what can be accomplished every minute with Swiftcast if so desired. Healing a tank from nothing to full is great, but usually the tank isn't in serious trouble unless the party is in trouble already. Benediction is fairly useless if everything goes according to plan, actually.

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have you read anything thats been said? have you healed? benediction's cooldown is extremely justified and perfect the way it is. it balances out. you shouldnt have to use benediction. if someone suck so bad at healing that they need to use benny every 2-3 minutes, they shouldnt heal that fight, its that simple. benny is designed for emergency use, not full heal whenever i feel like it

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Originally Posted by monochromicorn

have you read anything thats been said? have you healed? benediction's cooldown is extremely justified and perfect the way it is. it balances out. you shouldnt have to use benediction. if someone suck so bad at healing that they need to use benny every 2-3 minutes, they shouldnt heal that fight, its that simple. benny is designed for emergency use, not full heal whenever i feel like it

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............. ^ this

The reason "some" of us want this on a shorter CD is because for a 5min CD (currently the MAX) its really weak, should you rely on it? Hellz no, but, the fact its on such a long CD motivates you to NOT use it. Longer CD = You dont want to use it often, and as a few people said earlier, if all goes the way it should you wont use it, i personally never have to use it in any content even T9. Fact is, for 5min CD, it sucks, DS cure II crit is almost just as powerful. At the very least make it an actual instant ability, using it when you need it is fine, but when it fails to proc in time cause I have to dance a stupid circle and the PT member dies and NOW i have to wait 5min sucks, it sucks D:

When benediction misses, my life is over.

Reducing Benediction's cool down by 50% but at the same time reduce it's potency by 50% will enhance this skill's utility greatly. :)

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Originally Posted by monochromicorn

have you read anything thats been said? have you healed? benediction's cooldown is extremely justified and perfect the way it is. it balances out. you shouldnt have to use benediction. if someone suck so bad at healing that they need to use benny every 2-3 minutes, they shouldnt heal that fight, its that simple. benny is designed for emergency use, not full heal whenever i feel like it

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Not sure what's up with the hostility here, but okay. If you had read what I actually said, your take away would have been that I was pointing out that overly long cooldowns aren't as fun for gameplay except in the case of game-changers (e.g. party full heal vs. single target) and that Benediction is overkill except when things go horribly wrong, anyway.

They just need to fix benediction from not going off in time due to animation. The cool down is fine.

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Originally Posted by DreamWeaver

Reducing Benediction's cool down by 50% but at the same time reduce it's potency by 50% will enhance this skill's utility greatly. :)

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So 50% 2.5min CD > 75% 1min CD....? Am I missing something?

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Originally Posted by Hollowed

for a CD that is the same as HG it is very under powered

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HG is a 7 minute CD, actually.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

HG is a 7 minute CD, actually.

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My mistake, I only spoke out of what I Was told, I am no pld.

Remove the delay it takes for Benediction to affect the target and I am super happy.

Also, as a Scholar I feel very safe when my WHM partner in raid has its Benediction off CD.
Good to have when I have to use too many Lusterates on DDs when they fail mechanics ;)

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Originally Posted by DreamWeaver

Reducing Benediction's cool down by 50% but at the same time reduce it's potency by 50% will enhance this skill's utility greatly. :)

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This would be horrible. With the way how various boss fights are (that hit for over 50% HP), this would be an immense nerf to the White Mage class. Having the ability to top someone off with a single button--mind you, off GCD as well--is a very very powerful skill. I can't tell you how many times I've saved various players from x percentage* due to an incoming nuke-hit.

* "Let x represent a number between 1 and 99"

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Originally Posted by Sodamachine

Remove the delay it takes for Benediction to affect the target and I am super happy.

Also, as a Scholar I feel very safe when my WHM partner in raid has its Benediction off CD.
Good to have when I have to use too many Lusterates on DDs when they fail mechanics ;)

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I'd honestly rather have this quality of life buff than anything else. The delay is horrid and shows how much a split second can mean life or death.

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Originally Posted by Hollowed

My mistake, I only spoke out of what I Was told, I am no pld.

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I was just offering the correct info. :3

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Originally Posted by Sodamachine

Remove the delay it takes for Benediction to affect the target and I am super happy.

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I'd love it if Benediction and Hallowed Ground were as "instant" as is written on the box.

I can't tell you how many times that delay has killed me.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

I can't tell you how many times that delay has killed me.

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Having both PLD and WHM at 50, I know your pain bro.

@parawill

It will enhance Benediction's utility immensely IMHO.

Being on a shorter CD means you will be able to use it more liberally, and not just for "oh shit" moments only.

Other than extreme cases (Raven's beak casting, tank at 20% hp, which begs the question what were you doing in the last 5 seconds O_O), I find that a full cure is overkill, you still have your healing skills yes? A 50% benediction will buy you precious seconds for you to stabilize the situation.

honestly, the whole basis of this thread boils down to this: "i dont use benny because of the long cooldown,so it should be shortened". plenty of experienced WHMs have made it clear that, even though it has a long cooldown, it hasnt stopped them from using it, and it doesnt make it a "weak" spell. the only problem with benny is the animation.

and the long CD doesnt encourage you not to use it, its a system. is discourages the constant use of it by making it impossible to use frequently.

and, for the record, you arent encouraged to not do something, you are discouraged from doing it.

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Originally Posted by DreamWeaver

It will enhance Benediction's utility immensely IMHO.

Being on a shorter CD means you will be able to use it more liberally, and not just for "oh shit" moments only.

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In my opinion, I think Benediction is a wonderful skill especially when someone is going to be taking incoming damage that will kill them if they're below 99% HP while they're below 49% HP. While it may seem overkill, it's a very strong skill which shines during "oshit" moments and is only -so- good because the target is back at 100% HP. I'd honestly rather have them heal the missing HP rather than a full 100% HP since there are times where I'm getting unwanted enmity, but that doesn't warrant a 50% nerf with a lower cooldown.

This is also why Scholars and White Mages synergize so well. Lustrates cover our lack of off-GCD instant-burst heals whereas Benediction covers the lack of "uber-oshit" moments.

I honestly rather have the skill's cooldown be refreshed if no HP was healed or if the Benediction was more instant than it states. But this is a personal preference anyways.

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Originally Posted by DreamWeaver

Other than extreme cases (Raven's beak casting, tank at 20% hp, which begs the question what were you doing in the last 5 seconds O_O), I find that a full cure is overkill, you still have your healing skills yes? A 50% benediction will buy you precious seconds for you to stabilize the situation.

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There are many factors to tanks getting below 20%, but that never happens unless...

(Not Limited to Turn 9)

a) Auto-Attack and/or Cleave Crits

b) Tank Provoke fail

c) Melee/Off-Tank Meteor Placement fail

d) Somehow the other Healer died

There are many other scenarios, but I don't think this is the appropriate time and place to justify why I had to use Benediction at least once or twice healing T9. Shit happens, but Bene's there. ;)

On an end note, I will agree to disagree~ I would love to try your suggestion in a sandbox environment though :o

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Originally Posted by monochromicorn

and the long CD doesnt encourage you not to use it, its a system. is discourages the constant use of it by making it impossible to use frequently.

and, for the record, you arent encouraged to not do something, you are discouraged from doing it.

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I concur.

Though I've been using it a lot as of late due to healers not efficiently healing in Syrcus Tower. Plus, those 2x Fire Orbs on a Frozen Target with those Elder Staves' AoE on people ... (This specific instance would be nice when it comes to that 50% Benediction suggestion, @DreamWeaver)

@Parawill
Just to clarify, what I meant by these extreme cases is a heavy hitting attack is coming right up, and your tank's HP is at critical condition, so even with a 50% benediction, the tank will most surely die from the heavy hitting attack. In cases like this, obviously the current benediction will be way better. :)

Anyways, as it stands, it's a decent skill to have around, if there's any skill that requires a buff (includes all classes), it should be SMN's Tri Disaster and BLM's Freeze, where the utility is extremely niche.

With that out of the way, let us start a movement to change what should be considered the worst skill/trait CNJ/WHM have currently : Overcure :).

overcure can be useful in 8 man. you just used cure 2 on tank, all mellee dps take dame, aoe heal, not centered on healer, for slightly less heal then cure 2. its not useless, you just have to learn when to use it

Overcure last 15 seconds, 15% chance to proc when using Cure 2 (which is NOT our bread and butter heal skill).

The probability of having overcure up, multiple melee jobs taken damage (1 melee + 1 tank is still not worth using overcured Cure III) so you can utilize the proc is so laughably low.
Please understand I am not saying Cure III is useless, I am saying the trait related to it : Overcure is useless. :)

i come acrss overcure more than id like. when healing mt in endgame, i use cure 2, just because they can take a big hit, and i can already have a heal going for double cure 1(minus 100-200 points). so, i un across it more than you might think. and taking the cost down by half, for a cure on par with cure2, but also aoe? and there are instances where dps get hit by aoe, or by differnet monsyers. so, i find both overcure, and the mp reduction cost, quite useful

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Originally Posted by DreamWeaver

@Parawill
~snip~
Anyways, as it stands, it's a decent skill to have around, if there's any skill that requires a buff (includes all classes), it should be SMN's Tri Disaster and BLM's Freeze, where the utility is extremely niche.

With that out of the way, let us start a movement to change what should be considered the worst skill/trait CNJ/WHM have currently : Overcure :).

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Agreed. Freeze (lol) I find pretty worthless aside from a huge mob of mobs that's wider than 5 yalms, and Tri-Disaster is almost worthless in PvE! PvP though, I love Tri-Disaster.

As for Overcure, I often find myself leaving the proc go to waste because I don't need a Cure III. And chances that I do need a Cure III, Overcure hasn't procced; however, there is room for change as it's very lackluster and there are very specific instances where you should use a Cure III over a Medica.

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Originally Posted by Moqi

I mostly use it when I am holy spamming and don't want to switch out of Cleric Stance. It's pretty great to keep the momentum up, but the cooldown is fine. I would never use Cure if it were on a 1 or 2 min cooldown.

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I do the same and also is a holy shit moment heal that means that is only for emergencies I think the CD is perfect.

imo benediction needs to have another use besides a full heal, i feel like in its current form the 5 minute cooldown isn't appropriate but if benediction had a secondary buff it cast on its target or something along the lines of that i think it'd be warranted?

Wow, people seriously want a full instant heal that costs nothing and is on a short cd changed?
There used to be a similair spell in wow called lay on hands. This spell used to do the same except it was an hour cd and drained all your mana in the progress. This spell even tough it was the most expensive thing in the game to cast saved countless of lives.

Now here we have people complaining about the same thing, except its a million times cheaper.
And people claiming you encouraged not use it? Well duh, its a o shit button used only in bad situations but even then you can use it every try of an encounter cause by the time you ran back and buffed back up its off cd again.
Look at it as a second chance cause you messed up. Not as a cool flashy spell you want to use all the time.

The only thing that should be changed is the delay of the heal getting out.

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Originally Posted by Hollowed

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You're forgetting that Lusteate shares Aetherflow stacks with other abilities. A SCH has to balance these and use them according to the situation. There will be times when you want to use Sacred Soil to mitigate incoming raid damage or extreme damage to the tank. Other times you might need to pop Cleric's Stance and help DPS adds, so you'll need Bane. If you've had to raise multiple people then you might need to use an Energy Drain or two.

The point is it's not a static "75% every minute."

I'd like to point out that Benediction is not WHM's only "oh shit" CD.

Divine Seal + Swift Cast + anything is pretty damn great. I save Benediction for tanks only and only in extreme situations, or if I just don't feel up to switching out of Cleric Stance while DPSing.

I'm pretty on the fence on this one. If the CD doesn't get reduced, I will still play WHM the way I am now. If it does, great.

I'm pretty sure if WHMs had the option to take Lustrate and lose Benny most of them would take Lustrate. That being said people need to stop trying to justify a ridiculous CD timer! I don't want WHM to get Lustrate, I just want Lustrate to not totally destroy Benny. (Yes it totally destroys Benny!)

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Originally Posted by Hollowed

I'm pretty sure if WHMs had the option to take Lustrate and lose Benny most of them would take Lustrate. That being said people need to stop trying to justify a ridiculous CD timer! I don't want WHM to get Lustrate, I just want Lustrate to not totally destroy Benny. (Yes it totally destroys Benny!)

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You cannot just compare them. They are 2 completely different spells. One is a heal which is intended to be used in fights a bit. The other is a full reset of tank hp basically giving you a second chance if something bad just happened. But since you love to compare spells that have different uses.
Can i have a regen effect and a major increase on my succor to compete with medica(2) then?

Btw, as a scholar i would rather have benediction tbh.

I'm fine with Bene in its current state. Before the animation was fixed, the target you tried to save was dead by the time spell went off. Presence of Mind getting buffed helped to lessen the need of having a shorter CD on Bene.

I think Benny should be changed:
-It should restore 1/2 MP/TP that would then justify the long CD

I also agree that Benediction should get a buff of some sort.
While I agree that it's a very powerful spell, in anything outsides of coils and extreme primals it's never needed.
The only time I ever use it is when I'm spamming holy, nice way to heal without having to switch out cleric stance.

But the five minutes cooldown is too much imo. Having a cooldown of 3min would not trivialize or make any of the 4man party endgame content any easier. And on longer boss fights like, for example twintania, having a 3min cd would still only allow you to use it 4times... Which is really not so much.

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Originally Posted by Gilwaethwy

I also agree that Benediction should get a buff of some sort.
While I agree that it's a very powerful spell, in anything outsides of coils and extreme primals it's never needed.
The only time I ever use it is when I'm spamming holy, nice way to heal without having to switch out cleric stance.

But the five minutes cooldown is too much imo. Having a cooldown of 3min would not trivialize or make any of the 4man party endgame content any easier. And on longer boss fights like, for example twintania, having a 3min cd would still only allow you to use it 4times... Which is really not so much.

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I cannot believe what i am reading here, at all.
A full heal that costs nothing and is instant x4 and its not much? No offense, but are you insane? I think some of you either never played healer before in other games or simply do not realize what you have in your arsenal and just want a flashy spell regardless of what it does.

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Originally Posted by Assirra

I cannot believe what i am reading here, at all.
A full heal that costs nothing and is instant x4 and its not much? No offense, but are you insane? I think some of you either never played healer before in other games or simply do not realize what you have in your arsenal and just want a flashy spell regardless of what it does.

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Don't come in here and start attacking someone because you don't like the idea of WHM being buffed. This thread was for WHMs to talk about if they believe benny should be buffed or not, not for people like you to come thrash on them when they do so. And this isn't any other game, this game is balanced around its current CDs this is FFXIV not WoW so stop trying to compare the two. P.S. You clearly never play WHM if you would willingly take benny over lustrate if the option was given to you.

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Originally Posted by Hollowed

P.S. You clearly never play WHM if you would willingly take benny over lustrate if the option was given to you.

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i main as a white mage, and i wouldnt trade benny for anything, i honestly thinks its perfect the way it is

I love Benediction. 5 min cooldown isn't even that long.

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Originally Posted by monochromicorn

i main as a white mage, and i wouldnt trade benny for anything, i honestly thinks its perfect the way it is

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Yeah going to have to second this. I have both at 50 and used to switch between them but I'd much rather have bene as a WHM than Lustrate. Lustrate works for a SCH but at this point only the most geared tanks would get more HP out of a lustrate than my cure 2s. 5 mins isn't that long of a cooldown.