A massively.com write up on why hunts are ruining this game

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

As a white mage, I'm considering not wasting any sands on left side... I do have scholar as well which would love to get unweathered left side, but I almost never use it...
I was going to before 2.3 just so I could dye the daystar set, but then 2.3 arrived with the divine harvest set, and I settled for glamour. Really love that set. Just missing hand and feet pieces now.

As a side-note... Thyrus Novus is within reach! Should be able to complete it tonight :3

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I just finished my Thyrus Novus a week ago, I love it.

Grats on yours!

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Originally Posted by Jubez187

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/07...ts-are-broken/

and reddit mirror

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...ts_are_broken/

Didn't see it posted here so either it never got posted or didn't get the read it deserved.

EDIT: The "ruining" is more or less my own words. Not the words of the author.

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In the article it says that players have no control over spawn conditions which is an outright lie. If you talk to the "Hunter-Scholar" NPCs in each area, they will give you clues on how to spawn each one. Or you can look at This cheat sheet I found.

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Originally Posted by Darki

In the article it says that players have no control over spawn conditions which is an outright lie. If you talk to the "Hunter-Scholar" NPCs in each area, they will give you clues on how to spawn each one. Or you can look at This cheat sheet I found.

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Is there any difference between a pop time and a npc that cannot inform you of success or ensure your reward against the horde?

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Originally Posted by Kallera

Is there any difference between a pop time and a npc that cannot inform you of success or ensure your reward against the horde?

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There is a cool down timer but once the cool down is over, the mark won't pop until a player or players in the area do something first. As far as ensuring a reward, frankly I don't want it that way. I like a system that rewards players doing at least an elementary school level amount of research.

I had no idea that BiS sets was full upgraded soldiery gear. Thanks everyone for complaining to let me realize this!

Remove sand as a possible reward from hunts.
Replace the oil in ST with sand.

Limits you to 1 sand per week, but still allows you to faceroll your accessories if you really wish.

The other suggestion of only giving full credit for the first kill - as a weekly bonus would solve a lot of additional issues.
This would effectively be a soft cap of 1275 seals per week (provided you hit every mob including every S).

The part that is broken about it is that it's an infinite supply in its current state. You can faceroll your keyboard for as long as you are awake and get unlimited seals.
There is "catching players up" and there is "broken".
Hunts are most certainly broken.

Finally another alternative which is probably not mentioned - award some degree of Allied Seals to Frontlines.
If anything - you could cap the amount you can earn through hunts with the "one kill per week" suggestion, then move on to PvP for 20/10/5 seals (for campaign 1st/2nd/3rd)..

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Originally Posted by Darki

In the article it says that players have no control over spawn conditions which is an outright lie. If you talk to the "Hunter-Scholar" NPCs in each area, they will give you clues on how to spawn each one. Or you can look at This cheat sheet I found.

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Originally Posted by Darki

There is a cool down timer but once the cool down is over, the mark won't pop until a player or players in the area do something first. As far as ensuring a reward, frankly I don't want it that way. I like a system that rewards players doing at least an elementary school level amount of research.

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This, of course, is for S-rank marks. B and A rank marks are not forced respawn, they're random. Weekly marks are most often going to be B-rank which is where all the grief really comes in. After 99% of players have gotten their weekly done (usually by the following Monday) the issues die down... But on Tuesday, the community goes to Hell as everyone attempts to make a mark with a random spawn point at a semi-random spawn time.

If they didn't want to cap seals or move sands elsewhere they could just have the vendor say "oh whoops I can only sell you one sand a week because of limited stock lol."

It's really too late now I guess, but hopefully they don't screw the pooch again the next set of updates.

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Originally Posted by Jubez187

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/07...ts-are-broken/

and reddit mirror

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...ts_are_broken/

Didn't see it posted here so either it never got posted or didn't get the read it deserved.

EDIT: The "ruining" is more or less my own words. Not the words of the author.

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People just love to cry. It's called a "hunt" for a reason, didn't find it, to slow to get to it? well you're not a hunter lol... another wasted thread and a wasted topic on a URL domain lalal

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Originally Posted by Vittorino

People just love to cry. It's called a "hunt" for a reason, didn't find it, to slow to get to it? well you're not a hunter lol... another wasted thread and a wasted topic on a URL domain lalal

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Wasted post too it seems. The article doesn't complain about "not getting full credit". In actual fact, the article talks about how much you can actually obtain from it, rendering a lot of brand new content practically (and literally) useless.

Ramuh as a prime (no pun intended) example.
i100 ring? No thanks, I will just do some hunts and get an easy oil - will even get the soldiery to buy the base item while I do them.
i100 weapon? No thanks, I will just buy & upgrade an i110 soldiery weap..

ST? The only purpose for this is to get a UDT. Don't want a new soldiery weap? Then back to hunts!

Hyperbole is what's really ruining MMOs.

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Originally Posted by Altena

Wasted post too it seems. The article doesn't complain about "not getting full credit". In actual fact, the article talks about how much you can actually obtain from it, rendering a lot of brand new content practically (and literally) useless.

Ramuh as a prime (no pun intended) example.
i100 ring? No thanks, I will just do some hunts and get an easy oil - will even get the soldiery to buy the base item while I do them.
i100 weapon? No thanks, I will just buy & upgrade an i110 soldiery weap..

ST? The only purpose for this is to get a UDT. Don't want a new soldiery weap? Then back to hunts!

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It's like you people play 1 job.

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Originally Posted by Altena

Wasted post too it seems. The article doesn't complain about "not getting full credit". In actual fact, the article talks about how much you can actually obtain from it, rendering a lot of brand new content practically (and literally) useless.

Ramuh as a prime (no pun intended) example.
i100 ring? No thanks, I will just do some hunts and get an easy oil - will even get the soldiery to buy the base item while I do them.
i100 weapon? No thanks, I will just buy & upgrade an i110 soldiery weap.

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Don't know what people find so surprising about this horizontal patch implementations.. It's not intended for the 1% wait your 2.5 months for the next patch. SE solely caters to the casuals over HC folks and people clearly know that.
In 2.2 you know all too damn well they will not release content that is equivalent to SCoB; it's just factual such as your relic will never be better than the Coil wep.

Oh btw, a wasted post too lol.
Cheers

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Originally Posted by Wolf_Gang

You assume they're not going to do more with a brand new currency they just added to the game? I see them adding the next round of upgrade-able items to it with 2.4

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You think they are going to do it in 2.4? I highly doubt that. They change what the currency is used for every other patch.

Hunts aren't ruining anything. I just started my alt and its now on its third week of soldiery. So no matter what I can only upgrade items based on that which is locked with a weekly cap. Even on my main I am now at the point where I can only upgrade one more item and then I'm soldiery locked already. So even if you could get 10 bazillion sands and oils, it eventually just boils down to getting your couple pieces done and then glamour items. Whoopty doo.

2 words for this hunt malarkey: OVER DRAMATIC.

log in do or don't do hunts and be happy. You don't like it? Don't do then. You like it? Enjoy it.

Simple as

That article if terrible, your thread title is linkbait, & anyone hating on the hunts is too damned ocd. You're playing the game wrong.

Two biggest problems of hunts is that it doesn't match the time/reward of everything else that was released in the same patch.

Why not have Sands right away in ST? Also they can put Marked Logs in the 4th chest of ST for the entire alliance to roll on.

Why not have Sands/Oil/Logs be sold for Wolf Marks?

Why have i100 items drop from Ramuh EX?

they can lower hunts or lift everything up to that level.

and the Daily Bills are a total waste of time.

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Originally Posted by Mature

2 words for this hunt malarkey: OVER DRAMATIC.

log in do or don't do hunts and be happy. You don't like it? Don't do then. You like it? Enjoy it.

Simple as

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it's not that simple, it lowers the amount of players you can find to do other things. and this is not a game you can play when you can't gather up a group of 8 people.

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Originally Posted by Ryans

You think they are going to do it in 2.4? I highly doubt that. They change what the currency is used for every other patch.

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They said they were going to add more marks, so I wouldn't assume this currency is a one shot thing.

They might decide to make the next relic upgrade a certain number of hunt logs, or kill this elite mark, or a new item that is added to the vendor, or a combination of them.

Hunts are killing the game any way possible:

Took out the worst of the comunity who expect u to share every hunt u find....
A lot of stress to the server and close to every day maintance....
Party Finder its empty, make the other content obsolete...

Easy posible solutions:
Make a weekly cap for allied seal (like 200-250)
Add Sand of time to CT2
Add a way to change myth for allied seals (like 500myths for 50 allied seals)
Add allied seals to roulettes (like 5-10) and Daily quest (1-2)
Rewrite how Daily Hunts works (1 seal????....)
Make possible to go into Coil 2 without complete Coil 1 t5... many players are stuck there!!!
Make posibble all coil content via duty finder (wtf with the static groups ? that suck) just add a weekly cap like CT for coil 6-9 and thats it....

Hunts are destroying the complete lv 50 game.

The notion that "Casuals don't care about hunts" is kind of silly. Casuals DO care, we just avoid it because it's a giant drama zergfest ran by people who spend multiple hours constantly checking spread sheets and ensuring that they have a monopoly on most of the marks.

Her it goes again! droves of complainers. blah blah blah yada yada yada! First atmas was ruining the game. Then thread after thread was created hoping for a change. No change happened, other then the fact myth was made a ton easier and less boring and mundane to get. Now people (most likely those that belong to farm statics) are complaining because other people can match their ilvls without going through the relationship breaking, elitist making, separatist, oppressive, GATED grind of second coil of bahamut.

Here's a COUNTER ARGUMENT: where we're you when people didn't do any content OTHER THAN coil???? People would literally log on, cap myth/soldiery, do their turns then log off. Where was the complaints about coil ruining the game? I got a great idea: SHUT UP AND PLAY! I'm sick of you entitled brats with your terribad logic on game balance. Wanna know why call of duty sells so well? accessibility!!! Wanna know why fighting games don't sale as well? Because they require a huge amount of time and dedication to be good at. Like coil, it requires a huge amount of time and dedication to clear. You need a good team, you need to schedule, you need to play almost perfectly, you need to gear, you need to be consistent. NOT EVERYONE GOT TIME FOR DAT!!!

I'm all for different kinds of progression, its just that there aren't many good examples of games that successfully balance open world progression against instanced/raid lockout progression in the triple A industry (partly due to the copy pasta disease of the last decade). My guess is he put something simple (and which he knew well would not be balanced) into the game to give a starting point for future development.

People defending the current system seem to miss the memo on the fact that the general experience for hunts and atma are going to vary widely in both directions due to server population and just random chance. Your detractors are not detractors at all, but people who simply wish the same level of enjoyment that you have experienced which was prevented by random conditions clearly outside anyone's control. Current open world content is in its infancy, is clearly not well balanced against instanced end game content, and requires significant work to fix.

Edit: Also, it should be noted that Yoshida's desire to keep the absolute best level of gear in raid level content is not compatible with the community's desire for alternatives to the usual stuff. People are less enthusiastic about raiding because its been the focus of end game in MMORPGs for over ten years now. They have expanded their target audience clearly outside the realm of those that traditionally raid, and that means we need viable, functioning alternatives more than ever.

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Originally Posted by Eissels

The notion that "Casuals don't care about hunts" is kind of silly. Casuals DO care, we just avoid it because it's a giant drama zergfest ran by people who spend multiple hours constantly checking spread sheets and ensuring that they have a monopoly on most of the marks.

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Most casuals just avoid it as being too heavy and too taxing, same as Coil and other end-game content.

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Originally Posted by Valoiz

Party Finder its empty, make the other content obsolete...
Hunts are destroying the complete lv 50 game.

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This is a common cry from people who just suck at competition games. Now even B marks widely left over for "casual crowd" as most hardcore hunters moved onto window camping strategy and just camp A marks (and often just leave and rest if there is a long window between spawn).

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

Why not have Sands right away in ST? Also they can put Marked Logs in the 4th chest of ST for the entire alliance to roll on.

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Because you know, ST can be done in half-AFK and require little to zero efforts. Alliance should be bad beyond measure to actually fail ST. And still - we got stone&oil there and at some point of time sands will be added too.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

Why not have Sands/Oil/Logs be sold for Wolf Marks?

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Because PvP has nothing with PvE?

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

Why have i100 items drop from Ramuh EX?

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Because Ramuh, same as with Moogle Ex, is for BiS crowd and weapon is just a nice addition for offspecs. Moogle Ex have the same ilvl100 as unweathered soldiery stuff and there were way less people who did it compared to Levi, mostly those who go for the kill or who wants something better than crappy soldiery neck item.

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Originally Posted by Eissels

The notion that "Casuals don't care about hunts" is kind of silly. Casuals DO care, we just avoid it because it's a giant drama zergfest ran by people who spend multiple hours constantly checking spread sheets and ensuring that they have a monopoly on most of the marks.

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The spreadsheet thing is really hilarious to me. Kind of takes the whole 'hunting' portion out of it, eh.

I guess I better unsub.... said no one

They are ruining the community even if they aren't ruining the game. I pulled a mob by accident the day before yesterday when there were only about 50 people ready (hit a wrong key when I meant to just cast protect) and had people yelling at me in shout and hounding me in tells even though I apologized. It was awful, and I seriously considered just unsubscribing right then and there-- I'd generally thought the population of my server was fairly nice until that point. The next day, I saw someone yelling at a lowbie with a sprout next to his name who happened to face pull a mark without knowing what was going on.

I'd honestly rather have a proper competitive claim system, to put an end to the obnoxiousness.

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The spreadsheet thing is really hilarious to me. Kind of takes the whole 'hunting' portion out of it, eh.

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All the spreadsheet does is save me the trouble of keeping written notes myself, which was what I was doing before I found my server's spreadsheet.

It's the same as games now having maps, rather than gamers needing to use graph paper to map our own dungeons. Only we're still actually keeping track of our own NM progress... so it's actually a lot more old-school than meets the eye... only we can all share each other's work.

Just a question, but what do you think keeps people who are not interested in BiS playing? If you find crafting, housing, and rep grinding lack the depth to hold your interest, than why would you think the rest of the community would be satisfied with that? The "you have your content, I have mine" argument goes out the window here because clearly anyone not raiding has little to do in the long term and any content provided to them is given as an afterthought.

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Originally Posted by Fendred

Just a question, but what do you think keeps people who are not interested in BiS playing? If you find crafting, housing, and rep grinding lack the depth to hold your interest, than why would you think the rest of the community would be satisfied with that? The "you have your content, I have mine" argument goes out the window here because clearly anyone not raiding has little to do in the long term and any content provided to them is given as an afterthought.

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Frankly there needs to be more raid content aside from one high tier (Coil) and one mid-tier (CT).

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Originally Posted by Kagari_Asuha

Frankly there needs to be more raid content aside from one high tier (Coil) and one mid-tier (CT).

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I'd like it if coil was expanded beyond four bosses and one set of gear for each job. :/

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Originally Posted by Kagari_Asuha

Frankly there needs to be more raid content aside from one high tier (Coil) and one mid-tier (CT).

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I agree, although over 13 years of MMOs has taught me that the secret to long term success is getting a community that supports one another and doesn't tear each other apart, which unfortunately end game raiding does not accomplish. The current form of open world content does it even worse, but that is due to Yoshi just throwing in some mechanics without much thought put behind them. Frankly, I think the leveling experience is somewhat to blame here, as it doesn't ramp up the difficulty nearly fast enough to build the core proficiencies needed to tackle hard content.

What I hate about it is that it isn't even about the monster fights themselves, it's more like a retarded form of PVP. And if they wanted to implement Chocobo racing there are better ways to do that.

This is the equivalent of cramming a room full of people shoulder-to-shoulder and saying "We're going to release an ant in here a few times a day, and whoever can stomp on one gets $1000." People would be stomping all over each others' feet, pushing and shoving, arguing over which one stomped it first, etc. And whether or not people get a decent amount of money doing that they're going to have a miserable time in the process.

Thread title is pretty misleading. They do need rebalancing, but "ruining" is
something else.

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Originally Posted by Namasu

By the time of 2.1, you could farm myth all day

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except there was a weekly cap.............

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Originally Posted by Kiara1

Thats why we get it easy, SE meant for us to get full ilvl 110 gear so we all can start doing next coil in 3 months

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Except the people who can't do T6 or T7 in 100 will still not be able to do it in 110 since its not about stats its about following simple mechanics. Same reason people who are in 100 gear now still cry that divebombs and twisters are too hard. Because pushing the up arrow when a cast bar appears is too hard.

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Originally Posted by Etupa

Quite the same (really worst) has happened to PvP player's with level sync... Every body found it fair and awesome.

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Haven't heard anyone praise making the gear you gain with the pvp currency worthless... But ok.

No point in pvping unless you like filling your armory chest with more worthless gear.

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Originally Posted by Zarzak

except there was a weekly cap.............

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Yep, it still took time to be full i90 even after they raised the cap.

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Originally Posted by Fendred

I agree, although over 13 years of MMOs has taught me that the secret to long term success is getting a community that supports one another and doesn't tear each other apart, which unfortunately end game raiding does not accomplish. The current form of open world content does it even worse, but that is due to Yoshi just throwing in some mechanics without much thought put behind them. Frankly, I think the leveling experience is somewhat to blame here, as it doesn't ramp up the difficulty nearly fast enough to build the core proficiencies needed to tackle hard content.

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Most of the oldest popular MMOs all have extensive raid content. The ones that die in under a year tend to be overwhelmingly lacking of raid content. Personally I know a lot of people who are waiting out the expansion. If the raid content is still as limited as it is now will be going back to EQ.. or maybe XI.


I give them credit for having to make back their losses from the abomination that was XIV 1.0 but that has been done it is time to stop pandering to the lowest common denominator and give some attention to the people who stick around for years instead of sticking around until the next game releases (hi everyone who ran for Wildstar and are now talking about Destiny)


I agree the leveling experience did nothing to prepare people though. They followed the terrible trend WoW started with the "follow the glowing ! mark until your level cap!" which does nothing but tell me people can follow simple symbols and arrows.

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Originally Posted by Zarzak

No point in pvping unless you like filling your armory chest with more worthless gear.

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Some people derive a thing called "fun" from competition. Also, desynth.

It's funny I tend to agree that the Sands and Oils should not have been on the hunt vendor at all, but when I see dour faced posters who share that opinion I sort of regret agreeing with them. I wish they hadn't done it, but I still don't see the sky falling from handing out a few loot upgrade tokens.

I like Massively for their news and information about MMOs but their opinion stuff is just like any other junk on the Internet.