Everybody Hates Ramuh (and why the fight needs reworking)

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Originally Posted by Seibah

That being said, I do think he should drop i110 rings, especially with the hunt giving them.

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Another reason why it would be sweet to have ilvl110 rings from Ramuh is that unless you are farming T9 tanks will not get 2 ilvl110 rings, all other classes gets ilvl110 ring from T6-8 in SCoB and tome ilvl110 ring ;_; For this reason all rings should drop from earlier turns in future because you need two of them instead one, hell i would love to see more diffirent rings to drop from raids no just one and one via tomes.

Ramuh EX is melee friendly, just dont be bad, thats for the first point and 2nd one is, well if people decide to not play content because it give underwhelming rewards, why the hell are people botherin with ST then ? I dont understand its ilvl 100 gear you cant upgrade to 110 .............

;)

Ramuh EX is fine, the fight is very good and the rings are hella nice. On top the scholar book is actually better than leviathan - UAT one.

Oh and just like in the time people couldnt do Titan EX in full dl because they sucked, here its no different. You ll pass the adds at 87, if you cant the problem is upon you

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Originally Posted by Seibah

Then take it up with your tanks? Ramuh EX is great for melee besides the add phase; the dude does not move, ever. He is a dummy if your tank can hold him right.

I agree the adds are rough for melee but the rest of the fight is pretty heavily in their favor.

also needs to be mentioned: ramuh's theme is baller

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This isn't advantageous for melees, since a ranged DPS isn't disadvantaged by a lack of enemy movement either.

Also, while Ramuh doesn't move, his abilities force *you* to move.

But yes, the music's very good!

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Originally Posted by Sygmaelle

Ramuh EX is melee friendly, just dont be bad, thats for the first point and 2nd one is, well if people decide to not play content because it give underwhelming rewards, why the hell are people botherin with ST then ? I dont understand its ilvl 100 gear you cant upgrade to 110 .............

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ok for the don't be bad, in ramuh ex when it comes to pugs while fighting the arbiters i aint selected for thunder crack (the circle aoe i do not remember its name properly) so without being selected and pugs with poor communication they electrocute me to death in the water, if i am selected the time to react is similar to titans ex plumes with laggy net faster then it can be done,(especially if your trying to get back combos on the arbiters)

also to point out from what i understood, i beleave OP was saying that how ramuh a fight that basically requires i100+ parties to beat a primal who's design is meant to be a challenge on par with ScoB, where all equipment is I110, while ramuh's equipment is i100, the same level as ST gear, using the 3 ex primals ifrit garuda and titan as examples they had accessories on par with BcoB, while keeping them as valid options for best in slot, while now best in slot is basically a Scob ring and a unweatherd ring, ramuh's ring is hardly used when thinking about any classes BIS, as for the weapons only a few can be called more effective then tilde wave weapons, (which is i95) the i100 ramuh weapons however can be replaced by soldiery (i110) due to how easy it is now to obtain a unidentified tombstone and sands of time, so with this he's saying how ramuhs drops may not be worth the hassle for anything other then glamor while all the primals' drops all had a use both in and out of Coils.

at least thats how i understood it

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Originally Posted by Seibah

I agree the adds are rough for melee but the rest of the fight is pretty heavily in their favor.

also needs to be mentioned: ramuh's theme is baller

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The adds and all of the mechanics therein are basically the choke point of the entire fight. I can't see a team of melee dps being able to take down those adds effectively while having to run in and out of the water, and to a waymark to get charmed.

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Originally Posted by DracotheDragon

-experience with the discharge mechanic-

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A suggestion for this: keep Ramuh on focus target. Thunderstorm appears on his cast bar, so you can see it charging and know to get back out fast, even if you're nowhere near any of the circles.

I thought Titan was the one everyone hated.

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Originally Posted by NyneAlexander

The rewards for this dungeon were stupid too.

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It was an easy dungeon that players refused to do properly thereby making it hard.
Rewards were suitable for the difficulty level when done properly.

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Originally Posted by Deedsie

I thought Titan was the one everyone hated.

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Imagine if getting hit by landslide also got people near you killed. That's what Chaotic Strike and Thunderstorm are, because double or triple stacking Thunderstorms is the popular thing to do apparently.

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Originally Posted by DracotheDragon

at least thats how i understood it

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Can be done with ilvl87 without any problems. I just kind of stopped to listen to people that need to insanely overgear content in order to beat it. Melee isnt a problem on Ramuh EX, RANGED that stick to melees are.

And again the rings are really good !

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I can't see a team of melee dps being able to take down those adds effectively while having to run in and out of the water

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And yet Garuda EX was literally beein destroyed by full melee parties like 2 weeks after release when everyone was fearin that double whicked wheel

/yawn


You have to run out of the water at a precise moment for like what, 3 seconds ? thunderstorm happening + conductivity just after, thats truelly not a lot.

Extreme primals were supposed to be a challange. Coordinate with your group and everything will be fine. And free ilvl100 jewelry and weapon from the kill is a really fair reward for a content you can just spam over and over. And dont compare Primals with hunts, please. What happened to the Hunts was an anomaly and SE didn't plan to have people stocking on sands of time on the first weekend.

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Originally Posted by Sygmaelle

And again the rings are really good !

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They are, but I honestly wouldn't mind bumping them up to i110. In 2.1, you could get a Vortex ring, a Hero's ring, or an Allagan ring; why can't we have three max-level ring choices here in 2.3?

Because theres already kind of a lot of options to get the main pieces at ilvl110, same for the weapons. These 100 rings are better than 110 if you wanna play without accuracy .. the healer ring is also effin sweet. Like you really think 2 mind or 2 str will make that much of a huge difference ?

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Originally Posted by Sygmaelle

Because theres already kind of a lot of options to get the main pieces at ilvl110, same for the weapons.

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No, see... There are currently TWO possible choices for i110 rings. You can unweather a soldiery ring, or you can grind T6-9 to get one (on tanks this is especially harsh since the High Allagan Ring of Fending drops from T9). In 2.1, there were THREE choices for i90 rings: you could buy a myth ring, you could grind out T1-5 to get it, -or- you could kill Garuda EX for her rings. What I'm asking is why the same system, which was perfectly fine in 2.1, isn't apparently desired here in 2.3? I remind you you can only HAVE one each of the unweeatherd soldiery rings and HA rings; if we want the same flexibility to choose two out of three rings as it stands we have to take a 2-point primary stat penalty to use a Judgment ring. (And yet it's still vastly superior for healers to do so...)

I say leave it alone and buff the weapon drops. We finally have a Primal fight besides TitanEX that isn't a total cakewalk and requires decent mechanics to win. I can agree the weapons could be more rewarding and i100 gear is always welcome, but saying the fight needs to be remade just because it's mechanic and teamwork intensive shouldn't hold up to any proper reasoning when this is Endgame content. We've had a lot of threads recently say that the Endgame isn't difficult enough, so why nerf something that's actually difficult?

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Originally Posted by Jasiwel

I say leave it alone and buff the weapon drops. We finally have a Primal fight besides TitanEX that isn't a total cakewalk and requires decent mechanics to win. I can agree the weapons could be more rewarding and i100 gear is always welcome, but saying the fight needs to be remade just because it's mechanic and teamwork intensive shouldn't hold up to any proper reasoning when this is Endgame content. We've had a lot of threads recently say that the Endgame isn't difficult enough, so why nerf something that's actually difficult?

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End game isnt difficult enough ? funny how I keep readin that from people that didnt clear turn 9 yet or even entered Savage Coils. I mean, if you REALLY want to see what is under the hood just go in Savage and have a blast.

Otherwise I do agree. Don't play because of the rewards. I bet that you cant really find a Levi X farm in pf as much as it was before since 2.3 heh ?

And I agree Brine, but really, 2 points will really not make a huge difference

Nukocafe brings up a lot of good points. The rewards really aren't worth it, especially now that Hunts have taken over everything and people can get 110 gear without any skill involved. The fight would be a lot harder without voip, too, but the fight isn't that bad for melee (if they had to switch to bard they need to just get better at playing their melee class). I mean, I think at this point melee are used to having a harder time with most fights. I see drg/mnk as a class for people who are looking for more of a challenge. I did the fight on blm as well and I basically just stand in one spot the whole time, dodge a few things.

In general, I find the ex primals (except titan) boring, drawn-out fights, so I don't have much interest in them. But the whole server is doing hunts now so it's not like we need any other content anymore anyway! /sarcasm

I just finished the story. A fight unforgiving like titan has me pumped. Titan is by far my favorite even though it can be frustrating.

Edit: if it is a difficult as people state it to be loot should be ilvl 105

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Originally Posted by melflomil

Edit: if it is a difficult as people state it to be loot should be ilvl 105

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The fight isn't difficult. Other people are. Much of the content put out these days seems to place heavy emphasis on personal responsibility (which, by the way, I do agree on). Unfortunately, that means the average player fails at it. Go ahead and call me elitist but I'm sorry, for the same reason most people still haven't cleared T5 because one person messing up divebombs can prevent the entire group from progressing, one person messing up T7 voices, one person messing up T9 meteors, one person double or triple stacking Thunderstorms in Ramuh, can and will wipe the group.

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Originally Posted by Kiara1

This doens't really have anything with the thread to do, buuut could someone please post a pic of some of the weapons that drop? I have never seen them and didn't know he dropped weapons

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I know I sent a few already, but apparently Bayohne put up a dev post a week or two ago that I completely forgot about. In addition to the monk and dragoon weapons I linked screenshots of earlier, it also shows off the paladin sword/shield and the bard weapon Thunderdart.
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/pr/blog/000783.html

Neat stuff all told. Though I wouldn't say no to putting them at 105, since Levi's upgraded weapons are already i100...

An upgrade item like the mirrors would be nice, but considering the weapons themselves are essentially like the mirrors in Levi EX in terms of drop rate, I doubt it'd happen.

Don't worry. Everyone will scramble to do it due to whatever Extreme Primal releases in 2.4, because they'll be farming hunts day and night until then (2.4), and Run-Sellers will be very happy. ;)

I've played this fight on every role the game has to offer, and I have the most fun doing it on melee (done it on both MNK and DRG and have also done many runs where I was working in tandem with a second melee in the same party). Sure, it punishes you if you have slow reaction time, but that's kind of an important factor of even being a melee to begin with, isn't it?

Melee classes are often harder to play because they need to dodge and be more aware of general mechanics more than ranged classes. However, as in this game on many encounters, they are often times the highest single target DPS due to their higher skill cap, strength and complexity. That's just a simple fact of MMO's as a genre in pretty much every fight. I'd say if you think anticipating/dodging conductivity is too hard then you might want to look into changing your main to a ranged class that has less focus on dodging while still maintaining your DPS.

Ultimately, like Turn 9 and every other fight, it rewards you for being able to memorize the pattern. If you know that Conductivity always comes right after Thunderstorm you can sit in the water while fighting adds and maximize your DPS by only leaving for a split second to avoid Conductivity.

Personally I like the fact that is a fight that encourages communication and teamwork. Titan was more of a show of individual skill where everyone being on their game results in success, whereas this punishes people who can't work together. I think it's a nice change of pace.

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

The fight isn't difficult. [snip]

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It's not elitist, it's just the truth. If one can clear all of an MMO's content, before long you have the no content whiners. And a major part of that difficulty is making sure there are enough snags to grab one person in a group of eight that then kills everyone.

Stuff like Titan EX would be nothing in a single player game, because it's just following a basic pattern. For one reason or another, square doesn't want to ease the 1HKO that wipe entire raids, but rather give a boost on dps/healing etc to raids that just need a small push. They're still perfectly fine watching people blow each other up on twisters.

The echo assists the players who are capable of mechanics but maybe struggle with dps/healing checks, but those who aren't will still never get their titan win or T5 kill. . Of course, this only applies to 1HKO fights or fights with complex mechanics like EXs, stuff like T1-4 is just a joke with it now.

also pfing anything will 9/10 times have that guy who thinks hes ready to farm Levi EX while sitting right where Levi is about to bodyslam the boat

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Originally Posted by Nukocafe

4. My high allagan ring for summoner is pretty awesome.Also are you saying a lvl 100 ring is better than a level 110 ring? LOL ok dude.

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Actually, the Judgement Ring of Casting is better then the High Allagan Ring for SMN (Especially if you don't need the ACC, which you shouldn't)

So many garbage DPS complain about a 1000 dps check what the heck. I laughed hard when the OP called it strict, it is possible to reach that with all dps at i90. Bad players cry for nerfs in the most round about way.

Also proves the stereotype that DPS are lazy players that avoid responsibility. Give them something that shifts the burden of the fight on them and they cry foul.

To put things in perspective, we carry it with 3 DPS and we clear the check by a wide margin without LB. Titan EM had tighter checks with 3 people when it came out, even if you were i90.

i think the progression is correct in terms of primals ex trials, leviathan ex dropped i95 weapon, mog ex drop i100 neck pieces, ramuh ex drop i100 weapon and i100 rings.

but in the current overall progression it's not as appealing for people to go for it since there are better alternatives. I personally just cleared it twice with my static and am done with it.

that said, it's not entirely melee unfriendly, it's only inconvenient during the adds phase, the rest of the phase ramuh just stands there, if thunderstorm is being casted, go in and put a few dots on ramuh and back to adds after.

I also do see people doing it to glamour the weapons though, they look very nice.

Considering that there is still a lockout on gear better than i100, Ramuh works great for equipping alts with good weapon and accessory.
Just like Levi Ex (weapon) and Moogle Ex (accessory).

I cant really hate a fight I haven't had the chance to try in game.
I will say this though - The fight looks interesting from a Youtube standpoint and I love love love the music. <3
-hangs head and sobs- Oh why is the soundtrack on a bluray disc?? D:

Hmm, this is why i saw some greed monger charging 10 mil for a ramuh win ( another server, because i was scouting) after a few minutes of massive laughing i started thinking is he really that hard? that someone would be that desperate to spend that kind of gill for a win? ( i doubt anyone fell for it tho) But much like Titan Hm was at start people simply need time to get used to the fight, and more will get it down, but i honestly can't speak since i never did the fight. outside of watching videos of his fight, But at least the content is keeping people on their toes. it's still new.

i was one of the lucky few that got to farm this w titan egi and i can testify that beyond the nerf there really is zero point for the majority of people to do this beyond the clear or sellers.
levi sux with mirrors. ramuh sux period. almost all gear is easily trumped by simple sold farm. yes, a secondary stat here or there may seem appealing but given the low worth of secondary stats
for just one item, the fight seems a waste of space. this fight has become the new mog ex. it was like pulling teeth at 2.2 to get people to run that due to the same imbalance.
i get that there should be different paths, but please at least make those paths appealing.

I blame hunts ruining ppl's drive for ramuh ex.
Its always the why do this when you can be doing this kind of thing.
Btw the real boss(es) are the adds, not ramuh lol.
Barely any ramuh parties in pf as ppl don't know the fight thus not willing to learn and wipe it.
Haven't seen a
" know fight 100% " ramuh ex pf groups since release.

Funny you should post this thread at the same time my group had our first Ramuh ex event and beat him. I personally found the fight enjoyable and relaxing as the WHM. The reward item levels compare well to fight difficulty. This is probably not a big challenge to a group farming Coil 2, but can be to a pug or a group that's not in Coil 2 yet. I felt that this was the easiest of Ex primals so far, and took our group the shortest amount of time to learn and kill (around 2 hours total).

That being said, as with Moogle ex, we won't be running this again after our first win. Except for maybe the mount after we've beaten T9 and have nothing else to do. :)

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Originally Posted by Brine_Gildchaff

And the rings are a pretty good secondary ring once you've got your restored soldiery ring (most of the H.Allagan rings are godawful...).

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The primary stats from the HA rings being 110 trumps any gain you might get from having better secondary stats on an i100 ring.

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Originally Posted by Kiokin

The primary stats from the HA rings being 110 trumps any gain you might get from having better stats on an i100 ring.

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Dragoon Stat Weights:
Weapon Damage: 8.488
Strength: 1
Critical Hit Rate: 0.184
Skill Speed: 0.152
Determination: 0.323

High allagan Ring of Slaying:
STR 18 (18)
ACC 19 (0)
Skill Speed 13 (2)
TOTAL WEIGHT: 20

Judgement Ring of Slaying:
STR16 (16)
Crit 17 (3)
Det 9 (2.907)
TOTAL WEIGHT: 21.907

the judgement ring of slaying, in terms of raw stat weights, is stronger. However, the i110 ring gives accuracy. Still, I'd take the ring of slaying over another piece if I was already over accuracy cap and wouldn't fall below the 515 needed for T9.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

Dragoon Stat Weights:
Weapon Damage: 8.488
Strength: 1
Critical Hit Rate: 0.184
Skill Speed: 0.152
Determination: 0.323

High allagan Ring of Slaying:
STR 18 (18)
ACC 19 (0)
Skill Speed 13 (2)
TOTAL WEIGHT: 20

Judgement Ring of Slaying:
STR16 (16)
Crit 17 (3)
Det 9 (2.907)
TOTAL WEIGHT: 21.907

the judgement ring of slaying, in terms of raw stat weights, is stronger. However, the i110 ring gives accuracy. Still, I'd take the ring of slaying over another piece if I was already over accuracy cap and wouldn't fall below the 515 needed for T9.

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Stat weight are never set in stone though, they depend on your other gear. In a vacuum the ring of slaying might be better, but if you can swap another piece so that you don't overcap accuracy, the HA one will be superior.

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Originally Posted by Kiokin

Stat weight are never set in stone though, they depend on your other gear. In a vacuum the ring of slaying might be better, but if you can swap another piece so that you don't overcap accuracy, the HA one will be superior.

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Right. Issue with the High Allagan ring, though, is that it's skill-speed based, instead of any -useful- secondary stats (Sorry, I -really- hate skillspeed.)

I've had to switch my armor around for a very similar reason, maximizing my gear with High Allagan drops and mixing in my weathered items, because the stat weights were collectively higher on them. This is what the judgement ring of slaying can be used for - to switch out. The stat weights on it are so strong, that should you have another piece or already be over-accuracy, it makes a -great- sidegrade.

(Basically, as my example, here's what I started wtih:
Liberator
visor of Maiming
Weathered body
legs of maiming
Weathered Gloves
Weathered Boots
Weathered Ring, rest of it was some kind of Hero/Maiming combo

And I started to get H.A. drops, so I switched to...
Liberator
H.A. Head, Legs, Feet, Hands
Dragoon AF2 body
Full H.A. accessories on right-side, save Gloam (110) and Maiming ring)

AOE design is part of the difficulty and it is beautiful.
Absolutely no need to nerf the fight itself, 2.1 added 5 new primals with 3 EX which required to be decently stuffed. 2.3 has __ONLY__ ramuh and the stuff requirement is really not that high, it is all about handling mechanisms by finding the strat and the way to communicate that fit for your group.
The fight remains unappealing with the rewards that's why it is really tough to motivate player to kill/farm it for the fun/glamour/reroll weapons/mount, compared to the hunt or even CT2. I highly consider its implementation as a mistake, like mirror drop rate was in levi, but here at an higher level, the fight is too poorly introduced to the community.

Its not the rewards that are the problem(atleast for me).
Im just tired of tank swaps.

I vote "increase ring lv to 110, and weapon to 105"