Most difficult DPS class to play?

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Originally Posted by skaterger

I believe some players are hugely exaggerating the difficulty of optimising blm dps while moving. They repeat is as fact without explaining what the difficulty is. It takes some practice but like all classes, because the mechanics of bosses are hugely scripted, once you memorize the fights it's just basically repeating the same thing. It can basically be broken down into the following steps

1. Can I totally circumvent moving totally? Notice how some blm stand away from plumes in titan ex, get assigned the least duties in t8, not stack for thermionic beam in t9 or leave it to other players to break vines in t6. For some reason it seems acceptable to do this which in itself mitigates many of their movement problems.

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Try to do get max dps out of BLM while still doing your work and don't let do all the work to others. Sure if someone can't play well a BLM the rest of the party can take some load off but that is not "BLM is easy", it's "Said player can't play BLM well"

I main a BLM and while I have fun with my job and do it decently well I find that the upkeep and the mechanics for SMN are quite fun. All those poisons, Garuda's contagion, as well as weaving in Festers, Enkindles, and even having the capability to rez people make the SMN quite the useful DPS member. As for melee, I haven't played MNK much but I do have a DRG (not to 50 yet) but I do enjoy that as well. The combos are long and take some memorization as well as skill prioritization but I find it fun as well. (Though I most likely am close to being considered a lolgoon but eh, to each their own!)

As for Bard---that job is straight utility in my opinion. DPS can definitely be good however with it's song's and ability to full party rez with LB and even the DoT's it can dish out while still damaging on the move it's a pretty useful job. Not to mention silence. It's really just up to you. But I'd say SMN.

Judging by the Ninja video, they have a jump not unlike the DRG. Queue "lolNIN" banter when all the Ninjas jump and get nailed by an AoE...
On the plus side, DRG may get some sympathy after people realize it's the mechanics and not necessarily the people behind the keyboard.

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Originally Posted by LetBloodline

Try to do get max dps out of BLM while still doing your work and don't let do all the work to others. Sure if someone can't play well a BLM the rest of the party can take some load off but that is not "BLM is easy", it's "Said player can't play BLM well"

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This is not what I said. If you read some of the posts here and on reddit, these are what some of the "top blms" are claiming to be doing.

I would say it may be a toss up between Dragoon and Monk for difficulty.
I have neither class but just from what i have read.
Bard is in fact the easiest and those claiming it is harder then blm, well you have the right to your opinion is all i will say ;)

I'll go wit SMN, because of the micromanaging.

Depends on the person. I'm just fine with my SMN, but can't play BLM worth crap. Meanwhile, another guy in my FC can play BLM really well, but has a very hard time with SMN. Just a different rhythm to the gameplay.

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Originally Posted by skaterger

This is not what I said. If you read some of the posts here and on reddit, these are what some of the "top blms" are claiming to be doing.

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Well everyone can call himself "top BLM" if in the fight they let do all the work to others and just stay put and fire

I call a "top BLM" the one able to deal with the fight and do his share and make that work affect the less possibile his DPS. He/She will have less DPS then scarecrow BLM? Sure but it's effectiveness in the fight and in the party is miles ahead of scarecrows BLM

Sure, why put a BLM doing the "homing missile" job or kiter in t7 job? Some jobs are just wrong for BLM but many others can be done without much problems

I have played as all but the LNC/DRG. PUG was dang hard! I won't say that BRD is hard, but I will say that there is a lot of finesse and cool stuff you can do. I'm the only DPS who can bring everyone back to life from a full wipe if on the 3rd limit break. I'm the only one who can give people TP and health. I can silence. I can drop 2 AOE's simultaneously. I love being a BRD. I also tip my hat to the THM's. I went to level 31 and I know there's so much more, but gosh, how hard a class to play! I think many of us forget the summoner. Maybe that's because most ARC go the patch of SCH. Heck, if you already have PAL, you can do both easily. The ARC/SUM is definitely a thankless job. My three favorites so far are WAR, WHM and of course, BRD.

As much as I'd love to say Monk is the hardest (aka most skill intensive) class, sadly I'd have to give that to DRG

DRG share a LOT of similarities with how monk works, however though both have flank and rear rotations with a DRG if you do a move in the wrong spot (or if the mob turns before your move finishes) you will lose the effect you're doing the move for in the first place where monk will just lose damage and still maintain whatever buff/de-buff they were applying. Also DRG has more options of buffs and CDs to throw in during their rotation, where you fit them in can have a large impact on your DPS. They do have a bit less to worry about than monk though, as keeping up GL3 on monk can be difficult (or sometimes impossible so you have to plan your PB to get it back quickly) and have a much easier time AoEing than monks (which again requires good use of your PB).

The casters are both easier than the melees. I personally am not very good with Blm but the rotation isn't hard by any means, I just can't stand the long cast times and never got great and finding those nice windows were you can stand still to get everything you want uninterrupted. Summoner has a lot more options than Blm, but they have a ton of more mobility making them easier to utilize as well. I rather enjoy my smn and don't find it hard to play, but I'd like to say that it is indeed more challenging than blm.

Bard is hands down the easiest dps to play, yet a rather large amount of bard players still manage to be bad at it somehow. Anyone can play bard and do good dps with it, its the song management to help the rest of your party do their jobs better that makes someone stand out as a good bard player.

So from my perspective:
1. Dragoon
2. Monk
3. Summoner
4. Black Mage
5. Bard

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Originally Posted by LetBloodline

Well everyone can call himself "top BLM" if in the fight they let do all the work to others and just stay put and fire

I call a "top BLM" the one able to deal with the fight and do his share and make that work affect the less possibile his DPS. He/She will have less DPS then scarecrow BLM? Sure but it's effectiveness in the fight and in the party is miles ahead of scarecrows BLM

Sure, why put a BLM doing the "homing missile" job or kiter in t7 job? Some jobs are just wrong for BLM but many others can be done without much problems

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No you don't get my point. Even the best blm in the world will never be able to do the same dps in titan ex as say T8 because while a great blm can mitigate much of the movement problems, they will never be able to do so perfectly. So in instances where a raid can allow a blm to not move, it is in their best interests to do so if they want to maximize dps. In fact, I would go so far to say that a great blm will realize that they should not move unless they absoluitely need to and in circumstances like not stacking for plumes in titan, they should certainly do so. But in the process of doing so, it makes their job inherently easier to play.

That is what I meant when I said that top blms will recognize when they absolutely need to move and when they can cut corners. Why would you want to move to activate landmines when a summoner can do so at a much lesser cost to his dps? Sure, if you want to move to prove that you can move while dpsing, thats great, but a turret blm will always be better than a moving one, and good blms will recognize that.

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Originally Posted by skaterger

No you don't get my point. Even the best blm in the world will never be able to do the same dps in titan ex as say T8 because while a great blm can mitigate much of the movement problems, they will never be able to do so perfectly. So in instances where a raid can allow a blm to not move, it is in their best interests to do so if they want to maximize dps. In fact, I would go so far to say that a great blm will realize that they should not move unless they absoluitely need to and in circumstances like not stacking for plumes in titan, they should certainly do so. But in the process of doing so, it makes their job inherently easier to play.

That is what I meant when I said that top blms will recognize when they absolutely need to move and when they can cut corners. Why would you want to move to activate landmines when a summoner can do so at a much lesser cost to his dps? Sure, if you want to move to prove that you can move while dpsing, thats great, but a turret blm will always be better than a moving one, and good blms will recognize that.

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I know, and if you gave me a perfect party with player that can do all the jobs flawlessly even if you give them all the work i'd agree with you. I'm not in such group. First we don't have a summoner. Second if i say "i stay still to di little more dps, you do all the work" they kick me. 3 we are 2 BLM so... It'a hard do all the work leaving 2 BLM jobless. 4 i do some jobs better then others so i think it'a better do little less dps and don't whipe.
A BLM that do 380dps and stay still help to win the fight way less then one that di 378 easing up job distribution

So again, scarecorow's BLM are a worse resource than good BLM that are way more useful to win the fight

it's all about being lucky or not. The more luck you have, the better dps (station or mobile, it doesn't matter)

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Originally Posted by Umero

it's all about being lucky or not. The more luck you have, the better dps (station or mobile, it doesn't matter)

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Meh.. When it comes to RNG, maybe. Otherwise, luck has nothing to do with knowing your job inside-out. The latter overcomes the former.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Meh.. When it comes to RNG, maybe. Otherwise, luck has nothing to do with knowing your job inside-out. The latter overcomes the former.

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I'm talking about on top of "knowing your job inside-out"

Dragoon is much harder than monk its laughable to hear some of these monk players say monk is the hardest.

1. Dragoon
2. Summoner
3. Monk
4. Black Mage
5. Bard

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Originally Posted by Vire

Dragoon is much harder than monk its laughable to hear some of these monk players say monk is the hardest.

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I know several people who play both MNK and DRG at end-game and they all tell me the same thing: Monk is harder. And I've played both so I can see exactly where they are coming from.

There is a significant difference between the amount of positional attacks that are possessed by DRG and MNK. MNKs will spend lots of energy moving around to get their crits, while DRGs spend a fair bit of time at the rear. So on stationary bosses, both are going to do well. But when it comes to big pulls where the Tank is constantly moving things to avoid AoEs and MNKs have that pretty derpy AoE skill and a bunch of positional attacks, MNKs going to have a hard time and DRGs... not so much. Not to mention if MNKs are not constantly cycling through their skills, they're going to be losing their stacks which means their DPS is going to drop like crazy.

Difficulty, I think, is based on each individual. One person might think that this class is harder than this class or vice versa. Every answer here is an opinion and people will disagree and argue over and over.
For example, a majority of people rank Summoners to be below either a Monk or a Dragoon but to me, I find Summoners to be the hardest class to play simply because I don't want micro-managing any critters to help me do my thing.

Bottom lines is, It's all subjective and it's up to you to decide which you think is the most difficult class to play.

PS Only one thing here is a facy, Bards are the easiest to play (:

I have DRG, BRD and MNK at 50 and DRG and BRD seem to be most fun thus the easiest for me. MNK just have too much running around the target and his skills are set so that you don't have much room for improvisation when something goes wrong - at least it is much easier for me to change and adapt to situation with DRG or BRD. Haven't leveled mages much because I don't like the concept how their jobs work but it does apply to almost every single game I play that I avoid caster jobs.

DRG - most fun and most versatile
BRD - most safe because you can walk around where you want all the time
MNK - most awkward and kind of boring
casters - don't use/no idea

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Originally Posted by Buklohn

The reason why there are so many bad Dragoons is because they have the lowest magic defense, having a high physical defense is great and all but its useless since 99% of the games adds and bosses are magic based. Add this with the jump animation lock and the results of certain death increases beyond any other class. In all honesty this game just isn't Dragoon friendly because of this reason.

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This game is very much dragoon friendly. The greatest difficulty dragoon (and monk too) can have is spinning tank in dungeon.

I think out of BLM, SMN, MNK and DRG, each comes with its own inidvidual challenges and its very hard to make a reasonable argument on what is the most difficult because you cant compare apples to oranges. Do you find it more challenging to time your cast for most uptime? Having a long rotation with lots of skills to use? Having to micromanage a pet and all its abilities on top of your own? Keeping up stacks of a buff on top of a multide of positonal attacks?

Each persons opinion will greatly differ here and there can be points made for each dps to be the hardest.

That being said however, from the sounds of it, the op is looking for a very specific kind of challenge, mainly having a complex rotation. In that regard i would think MNK would be the most fitting class, as in my opinion it has the highest entry skill barrier, due to having to learn forms and positions on top of the usual business. BLM, DRG and SMN by comparison, will give you an easier time when starting out and the challenges will shine through only at the higher lvls of play.

Just my 2 cents.

Being a main Bard myself I have to be honest, from a pure DPS standpoint, it is easy. You can be mobile and still do damage, and the pressure is not on you to deal loads of damage because you aren't expected too. However, there is an aspect of Bard that sometimes gets overlooked. I was doing Ifrit HM the other day and both WHM started running out of MP and we wiped. Who do you think took the blame because he didn't pop up Mage's Ballad? This guy. While not entirely my fault that they weren't managing their MP, it still didn't make me look good. No doubt the DPS aspect is easy peasy. Just don't forget everything else with it.

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Originally Posted by KingSora

Being a main Bard myself I have to be honest, from a pure DPS standpoint, it is easy. You can be mobile and still do damage, and the pressure is not on you to deal loads of damage because you aren't expected too. However, there is an aspect of Bard that sometimes gets overlooked. I was doing Ifrit HM the other day and both WHM started running out of MP and we wiped. Who do you think took the blame because he didn't pop up Mage's Ballad? This guy. While not entirely my fault that they weren't managing their MP, it still didn't make me look good. No doubt the DPS aspect is easy peasy. Just don't forget everything else with it.

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Where the "everything else" is watch WHM's MP?

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Originally Posted by KingSora

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As a WHM main, I can tell you that if you have to raise 2-3 people within about 10 minutes. You're mana is going to be incredibly low, even with proper use of Shroud. Raise is incredibly costly.

However, as a DPS, you shouldn't be babysitting the MP party list like a healer looking for something to esuna.

If a WHM or a SCH or whoever else needs a song played, they should be asking. If they were spamming a macro asking you to play Ballad 20+ times in the chat with those annoying twinkly sound effects; then yes, that's 100% on you for not paying attention. But if they're not saying anything at all even when their MP is in the triple digits, that is on them.

If as a bard with so little to normally have to worry about you can't manage to watch your healer's MP... then why should they bother to watch your HP? As a healer I absolutely hate it when I have to shout for manasong, you should be able to pay enough attention to what is going on to see when its needed. If manasong isn't needed and there are mages in the party, then you should use foe's requiem. The only one that is tricky and I don't blame bards for is the TP song in melee heavy parties since you can't see what their TP is at.
As much as you may want to be just a ranger, your are in fact a bard. Your songs are a key part of your job, so please use them! D:

In general, Yes, Bards should be using songs. But in all fairness to King Sora there, if not one but both WHM ran out of MP on a HM primal, the party had more problems than just a mana song.

Funny how mostly rate based on inexperience and opinion.

As all 50's i90 +,
1) Monks have the hardest rotation as it is extremely customizable which can cause a simple screw up for bad dps. Lost of GL mean 30 sec trying to get it back. And if you get GL 2 then need that last positional skill to hit but the boss moves or disappears for X amount of time... you lose it all. And dont forget the dots.. building GL 3 and working about dots.. come on...

2) Summoner, my raid job, is not as difficult as monk as getting DOTS up is easy. However, micromanaging Garuda or Ifrit is a task in itself. In between dots, I have to make sure pet is in proper position, either in obey or sic depending on the phase, and getting their buffs up as much as possible.. that only within 18 secs.

3) Dragoon, not complicated at all as you only have a 3 chain attack compare to Monks 9. You screw up, oh well. that only 6-9 sec recovery. However, its also a dot class, so you have to make sure dots up and getting max dps with positioning. I still think the jump animations are a hinder to DPS, even after the fix.

4) Black Mage, the rotation is 1,2,3,1,2,3... nothing special about it. No mana consideration other than how you convert from Astral to Umbral (Convert, Transpose, Blizzard 3). The only thing that make this job hard.. you cant move. While, Monk and Dragoon constantly having to dodge AoEs either from boss or raid, the Black Mage have to only worry about raid AoE. Deal with it really.. Scathe, swiftcast, surecast, manawall, manaward, Aetherial Manipulation, even thunder and fire 3 procs...

5) Bard, my actual main, why... cause it easy. Why learn new content while struggling to keep up DPS? Anyways, seriously Heavy Shot all day. Dots are easy to keep up.

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Originally Posted by Inkarozu

If manasong isn't needed and there are mages in the party, then you should use foe's requiem. The only one that is tricky and I don't blame bards for is the TP song in melee heavy parties since you can't see what their TP is at.
As much as you may want to be just a ranger, your are in fact a bard. Your songs are a key part of your job, so please use them! D:

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I did forget to mention those and I do try to use them. I just have to be careful not to run out of MP on something like Foes Requiem and then not be able cast Mages Baalad when we really need it. And yes I try to get Army's Paeon out there but it is hard to judge and again don't want to waste MP. Like I said in first post DPSing as a Bard is easy, and using the songs isn't that difficult as well. some people just forget about that part. I'm in no way trying to argue that Bard is difficult. We all know it isn't. It just isn't always a complete snore feast either.

Monk for melee and summoner for range in terms of most complex. Next bard and easiest black Mage and dragoon. I have played all jobs to 50 in the game so far and this is what I found personally for dps.

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Originally Posted by DeathFiend

Funny how mostly rate based on opinion.

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Of course it's going to be based on opinion...

One player might find MNK easy (my friend, for example), while another might find BLM to be very difficult.

DPS difficulty is not objective, it is subjective.
I have played MNK and DRG, and I find DRG more complex, while others see differently.

Just like how you say DRG is "not difficult at all", while it definitely has the most complex rotation, this is a subjective opinion, so don't dismiss others' comments with nonsense like "Funny how most people based it on opinion".

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Originally Posted by KingSora

I did forget to mention those and I do try to use them. I just have to be careful not to run out of MP on something like Foes Requiem and then not be able cast Mages Baalad when we really need it. And yes I try to get Army\\'s Paeon out there but it is hard to judge and again don\\'t want to waste MP. Like I said in first post DPSing as a Bard is easy, and using the songs isn\\'t that difficult as well. some people just forget about that part. I\\'m in no way trying to argue that Bard is difficult. We all know it isn\\'t. It just isn\\'t always a complete snore feast either.

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If you play a content long enough you can time when mages need ballad. In most cases, you will need to play it 1to 2 times in the entire fight. This means that you just need to know which phase to play song. Otherwise, keep foe requiem up as much possible. If a mage runs out of mp prior to said phase, inform them there is such a thing as overhealing. In regards to tp, you should never play it for personal gain. If warrior or monk request it, then it should be played or during heavy aoe fights. Otherwise, Invigorate has a decent cool down, works better than peaon.

Tl;dr: time your mage ballad, use for requiem as much as possible, army paeon only on request.

Every DPS class will tell you that their class is the most difficult to master and to a degree they're all right. Every DPS/tank/Healer job requires a certain level of understanding the nuances of the that specific job to be at maximum effectiveness. Not only that, you have to understand how to fight alongside other DPS jobs to stay effective. As a DRG my tactics to how I approach fight can change depending what other DPS alongside of me. My rotation focus changes when paired with a BRD, compared to a BLM.

I'm gonna start a little riot with this one, but:

1) Summoner
2) Black Mage
3) Monk, Bard and Dragoon tied

Simply for the fact that anyone can DPS, but not everyone can master said class. Monk and dragoon rotations become muscle memory with enough practice. Bards have a certain buffing order.

Black mage needs to plan ahead to optimise DPS. They may waste a thundercloud or firestarter proc while they're saving it to use while moving. Ideally you'd want that last MP tick to happen right before you switch from Umbral ice back to Astral fire.

As for summoner. Anyone can slap some DoTs on the target and deal decent damage. But it's possibly the hardest class to deal as much damage as possible. It's not simply DoTing up when they're about to run out. They don't have a specific rotation either, unlike the other classes. You add your dots and everything afterwards is pretty much on the fly. Muscle memory simply doesn't apply for Summoner.

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Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

Black mage needs to plan ahead to optimise DPS.

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Well same as monk. only difference is with monk, you have alot less time to decide and you have to move to maximize your dps.

But the thing is, monk does soo much dps even when slacking that people think it's easy to be monk. But the truth is compared to a good monk, he'd do 50-150+ more dps, and that is something a few can only achieve.

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Originally Posted by Lolifell

Most difficult class to play

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Most difficult one as of today - Ninja.

Now try to use his skills - he's just invisible, must be nerfed already..

Else

Monk if you like different combos as you stated.

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Originally Posted by Numenor1379

The BLM rotation IS set in stone as far as the most efficient way for the class to do damage. T3 - F3 - F1 (4x or 5x depending on MP) - B3 - T2 - F3 - repeat. 5 skills rotated at a regular rate. That's it. Far unlike MNK or DRG with their 20+ skill long rotations that also require the player to be moving to the correct spots.

Where BLM gets complicated, and very hard to master, is mitigating the movement penalty we suffer while maintaining the above rotation. Other jobs can switch things up a bit if needed, BLMs cannot. Other skills like our shields, teleport or buffs are not part of the damage rotation, which is what this topic was addressing.

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If your using a "set in stone" rotation for bosses as a BLM you will be doing less dps than if you constantly change your rotation slightly based on the current situation.

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Originally Posted by scarebearz

If your using a "set in stone" rotation for bosses as a BLM you will be doing less dps than if you constantly change your rotation slightly based on the current situation.

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Very true, but note that my post was regarding the most efficient rotation possible. It is what you WANT to do as much as possible, circumstances however require the player to adopt rotations that while may not equal the Fire spam one in pure numbers, out class it due to circumstances.

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Originally Posted by Numenor1379

Very true, but note that my post was regarding the most efficient rotation possible. It is what you WANT to do as much as possible, circumstances however require the player to adopt rotations that while may not equal the Fire spam one in pure numbers, out class it due to circumstances.

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The adapting to maintain dps, while moving is the bit that makes BLM one of the tougher DPS classes to do well with, imo.

Although I find all DPS classes "easy" to play, I will agree with others here that some are harder to "master" than others. It depends on the fight however.

Assuming a target that moves around a lot, or requires you to change targets at a moment's notice.
1. Dragoon
2. Monk
3. Black Mage
4. Summoner
5. Bard

Assuming a primarily tank-n-spank target
1. Dragoon
2. Summoner
3. Monk
4. Black Mage
5. Bard

Two runs of ST last night, both as BLM. First run was flippin though. Everything wanted to either target me, be directed at me or pop on me. Soo much movement in that run. Then next run was a dream. NO movement at all. I was a turret and a damn good one lol. For BLM it is soo random. THe numbers we produce are random, our procs are random...so it's nice when you can reliably cast without unnecessary movement.

Syn