Tam-Tara Deepcroft and Edda

I agree that I don't think she was really bringing back her boyfriend at all but just creating bodies for voidsent.

I really want to know though, was what Edda achieved accomplished with a twisted form of White Magic... or was it Black Magic? Or are they really not that separate? Or was it some other kind of magic entirely?

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Originally Posted by Wasselin

I agree that I don't think she was really bringing back her boyfriend at all but just creating bodies for voidsent.

I really want to know though, was what Edda achieved accomplished with a twisted form of White Magic... or was it Black Magic? Or are they really not that separate? Or was it some other kind of magic entirely?

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Creatures of the Void come to our plane because it's rich in Aether, which in many ways is like air and water to them. Black Magic is essentially the art of using magic like the Voidsent do (Or at least in a similar matter). Which is the problem with Black Magic - learning it will, eventually, lead to you learning from a Void creature itself, or from some third party that originated from the Void.

White Magic is essential a 'pure' magic from our world, in a manner of speaking, 'tainted' by the things that produce aether in our world. It's still dangerous, but for a different reason.

What Edda was doing, regardless if she actually brought her bf back or not, was probably mostly Black Magic, though whether she recognized that is up for debate. I doubt Voidkin could have taught her how to do what she was doing with White Magic, even if they wanted to.

I got the idea that most of the void sent involved were more attempts to conjure up a body for Avere. With no real lore on this sort of thing Edda had to trial and error the process. One army of monstrosities later Avere gets his "new body" powered by souls.

I have my doubts that we've seen the last of our poor Edda. As we know from Haukke Manor, the voidsent are not wont to release those whom sell their souls to them.

It could be that Necromancy itself (by Eorzean definition) is the combining of White Magic (life/restoration) and Black Magic (death/destruction), which would explain why it's not common. Each are rare themselves due to being forbidden. Someone adept enough at magic to have the capacity to mix them would result in a unique and frightening type of magic (and I'm not talking about a job like Red Mage that utilizes magic from each individually, but rather a merging of the two).

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Originally Posted by Velox

It could be that Necromancy itself (by Eorzean definition) is the combining of White Magic (life/restoration) and Black Magic (death/destruction), which would explain why it's not common. Each are rare themselves due to being forbidden. Someone adept enough at magic to have the capacity to mix them would result in a unique and frightening type of magic (and I'm not talking about a job like Red Mage that utilizes magic from each individually, but rather a merging of the two).

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Not arguing, just bringing up a parallel point. Though this only makes Edda even more strange! Edda was, for lack of a better term, a failure at magic. She admitted that most of her healing was through the use of potions as she couldn't figure magic out... So, either she really hit the books following Avere's death or she reached out for help and the Void answered. I'm thinking the latter.

I could be wrong, but here's what I get from the whole Edda thing. She created or summoned those soul-less bodies for Avere to inhabit. However, he is too weak to inhabit those bodies. He needs a soul to absorb to make binding to one of those bodies possible. She summoned the Lalafell to Tam-tara to see if his soul was powerful enough. We don't know because we rescue him before Avere can possess? him. Now we enter. Edda's grand design was to get us to come in and use our souls to power Avere.

Ok, so we enter and do our thing. Could it have been a trial? See if our souls are powerful enough to handle everything that Tam-Tara throws at us? Edda even says we have strong souls to give Avere. Not entirely sure how this whole thing would play out if we failed. Would she have Avere eat our soul then possess the iron guys that we fight? Would he have possessed our soul and body?

It's true we don't know how it would have played out, but I do agree. The end-game was to have <insert player name here> be the new Avere. I assumed that this would be done by having <player>'s soul absorb by Avere and him using the body, though it is also possible the she's fine with the wholke floating head-thing. I mean, why not, she went on romantic excursions with a severed head. Not too much of a stretch here.

You're all forgetting that Avere was already long dead. Most likely, a voidkin (floating eye) was simply playing on Edda's weaknesses to gather more souls to consume/become stronger/whatever. The fact is that the boss is NOT Avere. It is simply NOT Avere.

As to the why, think about it: why kill one helpless girl when you can get her to lure others in at a "rescue attempt," only to be consumed, further fueling your strength? (You should all read Steve Harvey's new book - Act Like An Adventurer, Think Like A Voidkin).

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Originally Posted by A_Magical_Unicorn_Rider

You're all forgetting that Avere was already long dead. Most likely, a voidkin (floating eye) was simply playing on Edda's weaknesses to gather more souls to consume/become stronger/whatever. The fact is that the boss is NOT Avere. It is simply NOT Avere.

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How can you definitively say that the Voidsent we fight isn't, in some part, Avere reborn: Void Style? To be honest, we don't truly what happens after a character dies. Do we truly go to Nald'Thal? For all we know our souls could just be pulled into the Void. I agree it most likely isn't THE Avere but I think it's possible that some part of him could be in there, albeit corrupted by her necromantic experiments.

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Originally Posted by MercuryD

How can you definitively say that the Voidsent we fight isn't, in some part, Avere reborn: Void Style? To be honest, we don't truly what happens after a character dies. Do we truly go to Nald'Thal? For all we know our souls could just be pulled into the Void. I agree it most likely isn't THE Avere but I think it's possible that some part of him could be in there, albeit corrupted by her necromantic experiments.

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Question, is a character's "soul", and "aether" one and the same, or different parts? If so, then it doesn't go to the void, the aether is release back from where it came.

Hm, interesting thought popped in my head though with your comment that souls are "pulled into the void". If man has a soul, and it came from the void... the recent talk about "the darkness in man's heart" is mighty interesting. However there is no proof to back that up.

I just want to correct something, I saw someone mentioning the ghost train hoping that it will finally be revealed since ARR now have some creepy material.

Thing is, the ghost train already exist, it's the train that link the two castrums from mor dhona and bluemist/northern thanalan.

Now to the real point, I'm pretty sure in the notes she left here and there she says that the bodies she gathered are not strong enough, not avere's soul, she really was looking for a body to put Avere's voidcorrupted soul in it IMO.
(Btw, if the boss wasn't avere, he wouldn't have his name, thus the boss is avere but, probably not the same avere she Stockholmly loved)

Side note: Just noticed today that if any of the grooms to be reach the center "A V E R E" that is written around the center will light up, letter by letter. I wonder if he does something special if you let his name complete... You know, more than a 4k red wedding.

I tried it, it hurts xD

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Originally Posted by MercuryD

Side note: Just noticed today that if any of the grooms to be reach the center "A V E R E" that is written around the center will light up, letter by letter. I wonder if he does something special if you let his name complete... You know, more than a 4k red wedding.

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a 1HKO red wedding?

It's not one hit ko but only the tank survives it most of the time and without a healer you die in seconds.

Not taking the story in itself into account (which is good) Now I want NECROMANCER CLASS! (Hint: my Character name ^^)

The last Boss fight is just insane, fast-pace, lots of dodging, always on the move, we killed too fast the adds on the first time, can't wait to be with a full FC to let ourselves to see all the written symbols on the groud.. really looks like dark magic at his best.. simply WOW! SE, you made something good over there.

a big THANK YOU!

"from a satisfied customer"

I loled with the "from a satisfied customer"
I can totally imagine you getting out of the most scary haunted house and look at the guy who handle it with your thumb up and a big grin on your face xD

I think I'm the only one who prefers the idea that Edda just went so mad after her experiences that she managed to find and cultivate these powers on her own. :-/

Reducing it to something lame like "Voidsent told her to do it." would just be incredibly cheap, uninspired, and would suck all of the intrigue out of this to me.

Rather tired of the voidsent as a whole honestly, but meh...

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Originally Posted by Dark-Saviour

I think I'm the only one who prefers the idea that Edda just went so mad after her experiences that she managed to find and cultivate these powers on her own. :-/

Reducing it to something lame like "Voidsent told her to do it." would just be incredibly cheap, uninspired, and would suck all of the intrigue out of this to me.

Rather tired of the voidsent as a whole honestly, but meh...

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I don't think it's "Voidsent told her to" more "Voidsent laid the breadcrumbs" I mean laying the knowledge about necromancy in a place where only a person mad enough to look for it will find it, from there it's only a matter of time. I honestly have no doubt that Edda, after however she got the knowledge of the art, experimented and cultivated her powers on her own volition. She just happens to have been that batshit crazy.

Necromancy is definitely a void art though, see as there are ALOT of voidsent in Tam-Tara HM, though that could also be her using her new powers to tap into the void energies already present in the area, seeing how the Lambs of Dalamud used it to to revive Galvanth the Dominator in the Story mode version. So many possibilities :3

Voidsent are pro at sniffing out people's darkest fears/desires and then tempting them into terrible deeds. Just remember what happened to the lady of Haukke Manor, who used to be a normal Elezen (and also what happens during the THM class quests). Voidsent are not just pawns for unhinged mages, but can also manipulate and warp a person in return.


Who knows what changed in Edda, either mentally or otherwise, because of her dealings with the voidsent. Whether that thing was really Avere or a creature feeding off her feelings/killings and lying to her -- who knows?

I could be insane myself here, but I like to agree with the theory that the Voidsent manipulated her in some way. After the events of the main story, she met up with us and had renewed vigor when it came to bettering herself, and return to adventuring. However, we also know that she lost A LOT from that one dungeon, Tam-Tara. I may be delving too deep into this, but here is what I've noticed from it. Edda makes no mention of family or friends aside from those she went to Tam-Tara and Sastasha with, not even in concerns to her getting married. After that, as I already said, she came back to us to express her gratitude for inspiring her.

With her renewed vigor she probably hit the books hard to become a better Conjuror and get a good grasp on magic, which she admitted to not being able to. However, the loss she experienced most likely was constantly weighing heavily on her. To her the adventurers with her, as abusive as they were, had been her friends. One of them was even her fiance. She likely felt that she was responsible for losing her friends and the death of her loved one. That loss, along with her desire to get better, would have allowed the Voidsent the key they needed in order to influence her. As I said, this was likely just influence rather than direct guidance. The mass numbers of Voidsent in the dungeon, up to and including her fight, lead the suspicion that she had some sort of dealing with them. They all seemed to be "on her side" as they were acting like Ushers and guards against unwanted guests. If you'll notice the only people that were ACTUALLY invited to the wedding were her friends, the adventurers she travelled with. Our characters weren't on the guest list, despite her numerous writings/ravings about us throughout the dungeon. We only knew what was going on because of Paiyo. That explains why the Voidsent were hostile towards us, but allowed Edda and Paiyo to go through the halls unscathed until Edda had set Paiyo in her area for the ritual concerning him. Voidsent, however, do not side with mortals unless they have something to GAIN from it.

What could they gain from enticing Edda down the path of Necromancy? Numerous souls. If you see from the "guests" she had went as far as to dig up her fiance's head and her dead "friend" to bring back to life. If you look at the rest of the dungeon as well, she brought in many other people as well. All the Best-men and Groomsmaids. The failures, note that they are called failures, and the grooms to be that are in the final encounter. All those corpses had to have come from somewhere, and the fact that they're not magicked bones means that they had to be fairly recent corpses. The only thing that could prevent the decay, as seen in Pharos Sirius, is the infusion of corrupted crystals with the corpse, those not infused decay into bone as seen with the countless skeletons throughout the game. Now, the failure corpses are likely one of a numerous number of victims that she was influenced to use to attempt to bring Avere, or a Voidsent posing as Avere, "back to life". Eventually the Voidsent/Avere grew to the point where normal souls would not be enough, and she would have eventually invited our character to the dungeon to fulfill that requirement.

I even beg to ponder that the Voidsent that had influenced Edda was the one that Avere became/was posing as Avere. And I also beg to offer that after the boss fight that same Voidsent attempted to take control of Edda as well, for its own survival. While we couldn't see Edda in the ending cutscene, the fact that Paiyo could strikes me as odd. It's well known that Voidsent often play tricks on their targets, as well as try to influence them. The fact that Edda appeared so close to her "death" and how her overall demeanor was drastically different than even the crazed Edda from the dungeon also stand out. In fact her demeanor was more akin to the Lady Amandine from Haukke Manor, someone who had been influenced and essentially taken over by Voidsent as well. Her giving up on her life because Avere had been defeated would have been the perfect amount of despair to allow a Voidsent in, especially if that same Voidsent had been the one that pushed that same soul down the path it had been going. I feel we'll see Edda again, but likely not in the same fashion as we last saw her.

Sorry for the long read ^_^; This part of the story really had me interested because I feel bad to see a character we inspired so much take the path she did. Add in my like for lore and I had to think of some reason as to why this may have occurred. If there are any major flaws in my theory I would love to hear them, or even just speculation on it!

From the point of view of a manipulative voidsent trying to get a poor girl weighed down by loss and a guilty conscience, you don't have to worry about aptitude. Seems to be that deals with the void aren't the hard part you just need the right way in. Perceived flaws or failings seem common. (Guilt for Edda, Vanity for Amadine, Proof of Worth for Thancred and his Ascian problem, not the same, but similar) As for follow-through, making her believe that Avere would come back if she just followed these steps. Lead her gently down the slippery slope under the guise of a "miracle", slowly warp her perceptions of right and wrong.

"It's all to reunite you with your one true love. Who could possibly say that's wrong? Why should YOU be denied, when others are happy?" etc.

So it all starts with a whisper here, and blood ceremony there, then when the failures occur (some of which you cause intentionally to power her desires all the more) you let slip a little morsel of info. something like this maybe "Weell, it could work if you up the juice a bit, but...you're not interested in that."
"No. Please. I want him back" or "I've come too far, sacrificed too much, to give up now"
"Alright...then follow these instructions. For love." *secret evil grin*
It works for us adventurers too. Just look at our Animus weapons and the 900+ souls we've harvested for power. But we're the heroes. It's all good right? Right...?

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Originally Posted by Kayokane

I don't think it's "Voidsent told her to" more "Voidsent laid the breadcrumbs" I mean laying the knowledge about necromancy in a place where only a person mad enough to look for it will find it, from there it's only a matter of time. I honestly have no doubt that Edda, after however she got the knowledge of the art, experimented and cultivated her powers on her own volition. She just happens to have been that batshit crazy.

Necromancy is definitely a void art though, see as there are ALOT of voidsent in Tam-Tara HM, though that could also be her using her new powers to tap into the void energies already present in the area, seeing how the Lambs of Dalamud used it to to revive Galvanth the Dominator in the Story mode version. So many possibilities :3

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I don't really have a problem with "She's using void powers". I DO think the whole, "She's being manipulated and following their plan" thing is stupid and takes away from this particular story by making it extremely generic and repetitive in terms of how things tend to go in this game.

Something more along the lines of "She managed to understand and utilize void magick far beyond what any normal human should ever be able to." simply out of natural aptitude and madness would work far better, IMO.
If there's any void manipulation going on, I'd rather see it go the other way around where she's subjugating them and the upper tier of voidsent don't see her as a boon or a mark, but more of a threat.

Basically, rather than having 'breadcrumbs' laid to lead her to the void, I'd rather think she just burst through the wall like some kinda necromantic kool-aid-man and started stealing their bread of her own volition.

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Originally Posted by Dark-Saviour

...Basically, rather than having 'breadcrumbs' laid to lead her to the void, I'd rather think she just burst through the wall like some kinda necromantic kool-aid-man and started stealing their bread of her own volition.

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Oh yeah!

She could easily have known of the Amdapor war and and then started smashing though the void like a crazed demented chessmaster. Hell she might have even manipulated the Voidsent into think they were maniplating her when the opposite is the actual truth.

Even ehr death could have been a benefit to her machinations. Considering what we now know about the afterlife and the Void. If she lives then "Avere" also lives. If she dies, she gets even more access to void magicks.

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Originally Posted by Dark-Saviour

I don't really have a problem with "She's using void powers". I DO think the whole, "She's being manipulated and following their plan" thing is stupid and takes away from this particular story by making it extremely generic and repetitive in terms of how things tend to go in this game.

Something more along the lines of "She managed to understand and utilize void magick far beyond what any normal human should ever be able to." simply out of natural aptitude and madness would work far better, IMO.
If there's any void manipulation going on, I'd rather see it go the other way around where she's subjugating them and the upper tier of voidsent don't see her as a boon or a mark, but more of a threat.

Basically, rather than having 'breadcrumbs' laid to lead her to the void, I'd rather think she just burst through the wall like some kinda necromantic kool-aid-man and started stealing their bread of her own volition.

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The problem being is that we know she's massively incompetent, and, more significantly, this obviously isn't her story. It's just another chapter of the voidsent story, which starts in Haukke Manor and will, most likely, 'end' in CT3.

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Originally Posted by Bombast

The problem being is that we know she's massively incompetent, and, more significantly, this obviously isn't her story. It's just another chapter of the voidsent story, which starts in Haukke Manor and will, most likely, 'end' in CT3.

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A) She was massively incompetent. As a healer. It's quite possible that she was actually rather terrible at that, but naturally pre-disposed to necromancy. And it's also possible that she had an artificial wall in front of her that grief and madness tore down.
B) This doesn't need to be part of the larger voidsent story that's going on with CT3. It doesn't all have to be part of a giant overarching plan, and trying to shove everything under one umbrella just serves to undermine the potential the game has. I'd much prefer that this is her story that exists as a tangent to everything that's going on. Degrading her into a tool to further that story (that honestly shouldn't be overextended further, IMO) completely diminishes the beauty of and connection to her particular story-arc in my eyes.

I fully expect it will just become "lul voidsent overlord. Push her to the side so we can fight this guy and try to pretend this is actually interesting". But that's mainly because I have no faith they will actually deliver a satisfying story. :-\

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Originally Posted by Dark-Saviour

A) She was massively incompetent. As a healer. It's quite possible that she was actually rather terrible at that, but naturally pre-disposed to necromancy. And it's also possible that she had an artificial wall in front of her that grief and madness tore down.

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Just to say something, necromancy and healing are not so different in the grand scheme of things. Both involve bringing life to dead things, and with keeping them alive (heck, look at D&D. ALL healing spells belong to the school of necromancy). Main difference would be the source of power, not the casting itself (and intent, but you can use necromancy for good, and healing for evil). Necromancers naturally make good healers due to their knowledge of how the body works, and healers can also make great necromancers for the same reason.

We know the Voidsent are jealous creatures, only helping mortals when they have a lot to gain. Necromancy almost certainly cannot be learned without a Voidsent's aid, whether indirect or direct. Edda is definitely being manipulated by *something* that is incredibly powerful, as she is known to be a bad mage and knowledge in-and-of-itself likely wouldn't be enough to help her.

What about the priest of dalamud?

Weren't they in tam tara deepcroft to revive Galvanth? They were also holed up in amdapor keep.

Maybe she had some ddealings with them? Though she probably was so grief stricken that she surrendered herself to darkness.

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Originally Posted by Lucke

Did Avere truly love Edda? He treated her like garbage, or was she delusional?

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Edda is Meg

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Originally Posted by Jobefuzz

Edda is Meg

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Yet in Family Guy, Peter didn't die unless you're implying that Avere is Brian?

And before anyone jumps on me about potential spoilers, I don't even watch the show. KnowYourMeme did all the spoiling (and maybe those that were shocked at the you-know-what)

How'd she get into a level 16 dungeon without being at level 12 to learn Raise? She could have just used that on her man and saved herself a whole lot of trouble.:p

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Originally Posted by AlexPayne

How'd she get into a level 16 dungeon without being at level 12 to learn Raise? She could have just used that on her man and saved herself a whole lot of trouble.:p

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From what I understand, Raise only works on 'nearly-dead' people, not 'fully-dead' ones. ;)
Since Avere was reduced to a decapitated head, I'm pretty sure he was 100% dead.

No wait, i heard chicken can still run after being beheaded, maybe it would have worked :3

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Originally Posted by lilirulu

Avere was abusive to Edda. And if Liavinne's dialogue while she was at the waking sands is any indication he was also cheating on her with Liavinne.

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I'm curious about which dialogue you mean specifically. Does anyone have a link or transcript?

Avere's abusiveness is just before you enter sastasha, the whole party is standing there, Edda completely exhausted from running to them with the few options she could have bought, avere saying that she is only good for her wallet and the two others making fun of her.

Later Liavinne joins the scions and you can talk to her a few times, some time before the garlean raid on the waking sands, she tells you that the reason she was so harsh toward Edda was because she was jealous due to her unrequited feelings for avere.

Paiyo reiyo also tells you that he was using Edda as a way to get rid of his frustrations, not able to find a powerful party nor become powerful himself and always regretted that he did such things.

Also the talking with Liavinne reveals that avere wasn't always a douche, especially after meeting you (like many other people in eorzea, he becomes a good guy witnessing your sheer awesomeness, cuz you're just that awesome after all, godslayer and all xD)

So no avere was not cheating on Edda but wasn't the best lover either.

So a satire of bad party behavior turns turns into a tradegy where one member goes insane two membes are dead and one is insane and dead? Maybe SE hates the toxic players as much as we do.

Morale of the story, don't go making your healer mad, it's bad for your health

Lol. Would be great if somewhere down the line our healer jobs could take on the additional "Homicidal Maniac" sub-class, too.

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Originally Posted by lilirulu

And if Liavinne's dialogue while she was at the waking sands is any indication he was also cheating on her with Liavinne.

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Originally Posted by Phyllo

she tells you that the reason she was so harsh toward Edda was because she was jealous due to her unrequited feelings for avere.

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Her dialog prior to meeting the Sylphs:

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Liavinne: Once upon a time, I aspired to make my name as an adventurer. It all came crashing down the fateful day when I lost the man who led my party-the man who had won my heart.
If I could not protect my love, how could I hope to protect my realm? I sunk into the depths of despair.
Pathetic, is it not? Others may have come to join some great cause, while I am here only because I have nowhere else to go.

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It can be seen as ambiguous as to whether or not the love between Liavinne and Avere was unrequited or not, but I'd say it leans more on the side of that they were cheating.