International Server?

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Originally Posted by Dranio

If at all possible this would be great. I've recently started to learn the language but I'm quite a ways away from effectively communicating at the current moment. That list would be an excellent thing to have if you wouldn't mind posting it or posting a link to it.

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I will try and straighten it up and post it sometime tonight after my linkshell's events.

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Originally Posted by Atoli

The person who does not understand is you.
I told you I'm learning Japanese, not because you told me to, but to show you, hey wait, it's possible to learn a language which is entirely different from your own!
Yes I know it's not easy, but it is possible. Learning English will maybe make things a lot easier for them if they ever leave their homeland, and a lot easier for other people who try to have fun on the same playground as them, too.
That's the other thing you don't understand:
I'm not saying "Oh my god! How dare they do not learn English, ignore them, bash on them, whatever!"
What I'm trying to say is that it's basic politeness to try being able to communicate with others, even if they do not speak your native language.
You can get by without being polite, but the other person will always feel kind of bad, and that's the reason why threads like this one are made.

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This confirms that you don't get it.

The fact that learning any language is POSSIBLE doesn't make it mandatory or required.

For a Japanese learning English is much harder than for a westerner. It's a simple fact.

So you're basing your very personal (and very convenient) "rules of politeness" on something that's easy to do for you, and hard to do for them.

Sorry mate, but etiquette doesn't have double standards.

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Btw, it would be a generalization if I ever said that all people speaking in their native language are like that.
I never did. All I said is that things like that happened to me. I described what I experienced. Where do you see a generalization?

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The generalization is in the fact that you're trying to make it look like it was the norm. And it isn't.

Everyone is xenophobic, I live in one of the most visited cities in America in terms of tourists, and tourists get shit talked all the damn time. Japan isn't special in this regard.

- When was the last time you tried to communicate with them in Japanese?
- When was the last time they tried to communicate with you in English?

Probably they last tried to communicate to you in English.

Regional servers also won't help for anything but latency issues, and even then they'd have to set up servers in different countries for that to work. Spanish is spoken a lot even in the US. Canada isn't all English; they speak French as well. Hell, there's a good population of French-Canadians on Selbina already and it isn't unusual to see French in /say or /shout.

EU? Only a handful of countries in EU speak English natively. Everyone else speaks French, German, Spanish, Polish, etc. etc. Eastern EU has so many different languages that it would be idiotic to shove them all into their own regional server and expect them to communicate effectively.

As far as an Asian regional server goes, would their official language be Mandarin? They have way more native and total speakers than any other Asian language. No, their unofficial "official" language would be whatever the most people spoke. Same as it is right now.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

For a Japanese learning English is much harder than for a westerner. It's a simple fact.
So you're basing your very personal (and very convenient) "rules of politeness" on something that's easy to do for you, and hard to do for them.

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Right, because learning an Asian language like Japanese, which is totally different from any language I've ever learned, is waaaaaay more easy for a western person like me than learning a western language like English is for them.
You are really making sense now:rolleyes:

/irony off

Suzaku is right btw.
I don't think dividing people into national servers is going to fix anything.
Less fun, too.
If people just started treating each other more nicely, this "problem" would be fixed anyway.

Learn some basic Japanese people. You can type it in Romanji.

I can see how it is annoying with the language barrier but when I first moved to Japan I didn't speak any at all and I got by...mostly through pointing, saying what little (horrible) Japanese I knew, and being patient.

Also, many Japanese (Mainlanders) speak decent English, but are too shy/embarrassed to try talking to you. Be nice or paticent and you will be surprised. It's not like you need to have a long complicated conversation.

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Originally Posted by Atoli

Right, because learning an Asian language like Japanese, which is totally different from any language I've ever learned, is waaaaaay more easy for a western person like me than learning a western language like English is for them.

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So, let me understand. You think that in order to be "polite" every westerner should learn japanese and every Japanese should learn English?

Man your etiquette is a demanding one.

/sarcasm

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

ok i come from FFXI and never had problems with japanese people, but in FFXIV it seems more dificult to do anything with them. What is the reason to have international servers if I can only play with Europeans or Americans?

And i know some poeple will say: ohh one day i played with them and i have no problem.. ok i did it on FFXI too but 1 day is not enough to be polite. Seriously i feel discriminated by not being able to speak Japanese.

What to do? allow it and play a game with 2 "factions" where u join oriental or not oriental people?

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you NEVER heard the joke "JP ONRY" before?
i had leveled with a handful of super awesome uber JP players in my years of FFXI, but the vast majority did not party with westerners. they would respond JP ONLY about 90% of the time. the other 10% usually being in the need of a healer.
and to answer your question, yes. JP only was prevalent in FFXI and it will be in FFXIV.

So in the end, we are racist coz we want in a international server, people to talk english (i HAD to learn it, enough to people understand me) and these talking their own language, not allowing people join them coz you can not understand them, and having to learn their language, or use third program/webs to translate to their native language, they, are the victims.

how many times i have to repeat it, i am not against any cultures, or any people, i am against to some people joining a international game, and trying to create a closed community not allowing people to join partys/events/whatever coz you dont meet their language/culture. You can say whatever you want to defend them, but dont say i am racist or xenophobic, i dont care where u are, i care WHY u dont let me join you.

PD: please, quote where i said to separate servers or something similar, i just express a fact about feeling discriminated coz i cant speak japanese.

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

So in the end, we are racist coz we want in a international server, people to talk english (i HAD to learn it, enough to people understand me) and these talking their own language, not allowing people join them coz you can not understand them, and having to learn their language, or use third program/webs to translate to their native language, they, are the victims.

how many times i have to repeat it, i am not against any cultures, or any people, i am against to some people joining a international game, and trying to create a closed community not allowing people to join partys/events/whatever coz you dont meet their language/culture. You can say whatever you want to defend them, but dont say i am racist or xenophobic, i dont care where u are, i care WHY u dont let me join you.

PD: please, quote where i said to separate servers or something similar, i just express a fact about feeling discriminated coz i cant speak japanese.

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The reason why some (even just painting them all as people that will never group with anyone that doesn't speak japanese is a quite racist generalization and simply false) japanese don't let you join them is very simple. They have more fun playing with people that speak their own language and to which they can easily communicate.

They aren't "discriminating you". They are exercising their right to enjoy a game the way they want, with the people they want.

On the other hand, you don't have a right that entitles to be included in any party you want just because you want it.

This is a simple fact.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

You think that in order to be "polite" every westerner should learn japanese and every Japanese should learn English?

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No, I think everyone from every country in the world should learn English(including Japan and the countries in Europe), because it already is the most "important" language on earth, without even being the most spoken one (that would be Mandarin). For good or bad, that's how it is.
If there were no language barrier, there would be less problems, ingame and offline.

I can't force people to learn it, but it would be great if they did.
I'll stop talking to you now because you don't even try to read what I write and just try to provoke me with sarcastic comments which have nothing to do with what I said.

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Originally Posted by Atoli

No, I think everyone from every country in the world should learn English, because it already is the most "important" language on earth, without even being the most spoken one (that would be Mandarin). For good or bad, that's how it is.
If there were no language barrier, there would be less problems, ingame and offline.

I can't force people to learn it, but it would be great if they did.
I'll stop talking to you now because you don't even try to read what I write and just try to provoke me with sarcastic comments which have nothing to do with what I said.

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So I was actually right the first time. Thanks for clarifying.

According to your very convenient etiquette standards Americans and English can be polite just by speaking their own language.
Westerners can be polite by learning a language similar to theirs, and as such pretty easy.
Japanese to be polite have to learn a language completely different from theirs, which is a remarkably hard task.

So your stanard of "politeness" involves something easy for you and hard for them. Exactly as I said before.

Yep. Very convenient, and completely nonsensical.

Obviously it's the most convient for people whose native language already is English.
Blame it on the fact they were good conquerors in the past or whatever, that's how the world today is, you can't change it.
Even in Asian countries, if you want to get really far in politics or economy, you already have to learn English, because we live in an international world, and the main international language is English, no matter if you like it or not or if it's easy for you to learn or not. It's an official decision which won't be changed until something really big maybe happens one day.
So I just wish people would hurry up and learn it, so we don't have to be sad or at least unhappy about things caused by language barriers, like this thread.

so my native language is not english, i had to learn it in school (like all japanese have to, more hard or not) and in the end, to talk with them, i have to translate to japanese, coz they cant translate english to japanese.

And u are wrong, if in school, children dont allow a kid to join them coz he is diferent, that is bad, is not their right to choose. You can choose your group with thousands of reasons, but at least, always let people to join. You can decide later if u like him or not.

it not just japan there *** everywhere.