Syrcus Tower is 1 tank, 2 healer, 5 dps per party

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Originally Posted by Zumi

I hope not it would just make queues longer for tanks.

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So what, 2 seconds instead of 1? And without a 2nd person to outlot you? Yes, poor tanks, truly a sad day for us.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

take the penalty, weeding out the problem? the problems you only you care.

until se says you have all right to treat bad players horribly you are the problem not them.

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Yes, weeding out the problem. So your solution is to punish yourself over someone else causing problems. Also getting kicked is not "horrible". And that's what you don't get, if one person TRULY is holding back the entire alliance in this case, that's 23 people that ONE person is punishing. And i'm talking about if the person just doesn't have the HP to take certain hits, or doesn't have enough other stats to keep enmity causing DPS to go slow and not meet dps checks. Similarly to what Nyaa said, there's a difference between just playing poorly, and just not having the stats to do the job.

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Originally Posted by ispano

Yes, weeding out the problem. So your solution is to punish yourself over someone else causing problems. Also getting kicked is not "horrible". And that's what you don't get, if one person TRULY is holding back the entire alliance in this case, that's 23 people that ONE person is punishing.

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yes it is, because you are treating this bad player as a griefer which they are not. it doesn't matter if they are holding back 23 people se says it's vote kick abuse.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

yes it is, because you are treating this bad player as a griefer which they are not. it doesn't matter if they are holding back 23 people se says it's vote kick abuse.

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Again, not talking about BAD players. Please start talking on the right point. We're talking about people who CAN'T do the job properly due to the SB gear they are wearing. If the tank has 4k HP and a big hit will do 5k+ to him in his current gear, he will die. That means he is intentionally gimping himself to a point that he cannot perform his job. He is intentionally causing wipes by doing so at that point.

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Originally Posted by ispano

Again, not talking about BAD players. Please start talking on the right point. We're talking about people who CAN'T do the job properly due to the SB gear they are wearing. If the tank has 4k HP and a big hit will do 5k+ to him in his current gear, he will die. That means he is intentionally gimping himself to a point that he cannot perform his job. He is intentionally causing wipes by doing so at that point.

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they already said sbing it perfectly fine. once again vote kick abuse.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

they already said sbing it perfectly fine. once again vote kick abuse.

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Post it. Because this post http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2160384 says nothing of the sort.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

they already said sbing it perfectly fine. once again vote kick abuse.

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actually they didnt, it was never clarified.
All this does is give more ammo to the players who play to their fullest to have a go at said people causing issues. One more thing, those who are doing their job properly arent the problem, they are actually playing the game in their role as intended, and consuming the content as its given, leeching off and expect others to be punished is just horrid, doesnt work in real life, be damned in here.

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Originally Posted by ispano

Post it. Because this post http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post2160384 says nothing of the sort.

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Originally Posted by Camate

I clarified my post a bit. Thanks for the suggestion!

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even achnoledged that someone said that people were saying from his post it was saying it's ok to report players who sb and he said fixed. unless you're saying he was joking.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

even achnoledged that someone said that people were saying from his post it was saying it's ok to report players who sb and he said fixed. unless you're saying he was joking.

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He said he clarified the post. And what he did was to NOT take a stance on spiritbonding. They haven't said either way with the clarification. So, again, post where they actually said it.

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Originally Posted by ispano

He said he clarified the post. And what he did was to NOT take a stance on spiritbonding. They haven't said either way with the clarification. so, again, post where they actually said it.

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good one like i said they clearly stated sbing is fine and you won't accept that. not my problem that's yours.

Ninja as the hybrid tank / dps job confirmed.

;)


I'm kidding

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

good one like i said they clearly stated sbing is fine and you won't accept that. not my problem that's yours.

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Uh, read it again, they never said it was fine or not fine. The original post before he edited could easily be seen as them endorsing reporting/kicking for SBing in a dungeon. The clarification says NEITHER that they think it's ok or that they think it's not ok. In fact, the discussion isn't that they are spiritbonding, it's that they are causing a problem DUE to them spiritbonding. There's a difference that you cannot or refuse to see.

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Originally Posted by ispano

Uh, read it again, they never said it was fine or not fine. The original post before he edited could easily be seen as them endorsing reporting/kicking for SBing in a dungeon. The clarification says NEITHER that they think it's ok or that they think it's not ok. In fact, the discussion isn't that they are spiritbonding, it's that they are causing a problem DUE to them spiritbonding. There's a difference that you cannot or refuse to see.

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no they were commenting about going in there with bikini's and other such things which you seem to not comprehend in sb gear you can do all dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Youmadesca

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oh i am super bad cause i don't suport vote kick abuse.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

no they were commenting about going in there with bikini's and other such things which you seem to not comprehend in sb gear you can do all dungeons.

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Are you still not getting it? Unless they specifically say EITHER way, I mean specifically, then they aren't telling their stance on it. That means it's a gray area. But you know, that's not even the point. A tank with enough crafting/gathering SB gear is going to cause problems for the group, i've actually seen it, the guy didn't have enough HP to survive the dungeon, no matter what the healer did. It's not the spiritbonding alone that's the issue. If the player is smart and knows he needs to have a certain level of actual usable stats and does so, that's completely different. And sorry, if a tank wears all Crafting gear and a the only "proper" gear he has is the weapon and shield(for Gladiators) then yes, he IS harassing the group, because he is KNOWINGLY and WILLINGLY doing it.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

oh i am super bad cause i don't suport vote kick abuse.

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No you just support other kinds of abuse. It's pretty clear too.

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

Does anyone have any guesses about the whole gear/tome/oil/sand?

Meaning, obviously we know the gear is 1 piece per week. They've confirmed that. But, in regard to the tomestone/oil/sand, is that something you will need/greed or is it something randomly distributed to a player. Furthermore, if you need a sand of time, does that disqualify you from an actual piece of gear?

Again, no one knows at this point, but any educated guesses?

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Tomes you would get everytime you finish the raid
About oil and sand, I think it would be like with the furnishing mat before 2.2. A chance that there would be a extra chest at the end and picking up the item would count to the weekly item lockout.

We have an harassment option in the votekick feature, yes?

Let's see what my dictionnary has to say about this word...

harassment: [noun]
Harassment is behaviour which is intended to trouble or annoy someone, for example repeated attacks on them or attempts to cause them problems.

In my opinion, someone spiritbonding and/or sucking on purpose is someone who annoys me on purpose. So obviously, using the "harassment" choice in the votekick feature seems perfectly appropriate for that.

now I just want a 1/1/6 setup ^^

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Originally Posted by Felis

Tomes you would get everytime you finish the raid
About oil and sand, I think it would be like with the furnishing mat before 2.2. A chance that there would be a extra chest at the end and picking up the item would count to the weekly item lockout.

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They're talking about unidentified Tomestones. Not Myth/Soldiery.

Had another thought on this, though I'm not allowing my hopes to get too high:

Unless the mechanics turn out to be face rollable for an i105 tank to single handedly take out the entire CT, this could possibly start improving tanks ability to be tanks. I mean, if all 3 tanks, due to mechanics of the dungeon, are required to tank well, and honestly will HAVE to learn if they haven't already by this time, it may end up making or helping to make a better breed of tank.

5dps? That may lead to one hell of a dps check down the line. o_o

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Originally Posted by Ramzal

5dps? That may lead to one hell of a dps check down the line. o_o

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It's a good thing in a way. But I also feel that they won't do it with CT, so kind of moot.

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

There is a clear difference between actually "being bad but actually trying to do the job", and "intentionally refusing to do the job".

FYI, I haven't once asked for the first case tank to be kicked, or initiated vote kick of such a player.
For the second case I have initiated vote kick once and asked for it for another. In both cases after repeated wipes with the tank refusing to listen.

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This is very much like a situation I had in Copperbell HM with a scholar 'healer' who just had me on /follow and figured eos was enough to do all the work. I think she was spending her time in FC chat or watching a video or something. She wasn't actually afk, only seemed like it, as when I stopped progress to chat she answered. Having me on follow meant that she usually ended up parked between me and the mobs and there was nothing I could do to turn them away from her without killing the rest of the party. Hence she not only kept dying but I had to do everything I could to stay alive, popping cooldowns on trash mobs. We obviously were never going to make it through the boss fights. She wasn't a bad player probably if she actually deigned to play. I first asked her to take me off follow and she refused. Then I realized she wasn't doing any healing either, only Eos (who often ended up being in a place that either couldn't manage to heal the party or spent all of its time trying to keep the scholar alive).

I asked her to actually do her job as healer (didn't care if she dpsed), and she said that this was her play style and it was her right to play as she liked. While I agree, in my mind this was harassment and decided that while she had a right to play as she wanted she didn't have the right to play with us, and initiated my first vote kick for reason other than afk/link dead.

EDIT: While really annoying, I realize Eos alone can do the job in lower level dungeons. But not here. And even in lower level dungeons, if on follow in a way where the healer gets all mob front aoe damage, it still might not work.

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Originally Posted by Zakalwe

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She doesn't have the right to ruin the dungeon for everyone else. It's totally griefing.

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Originally Posted by ispano

It's a good thing in a way. But I also feel that they won't do it with CT, so kind of moot.

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Huh. Never thought about it that way. Good point.

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Originally Posted by Marxam

If its true I finally I don't have to fight another tank for a loot drop but to the dps, GL. But i think most people will go into CT trying for the oils and sands. So either way its going to suck

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In theory, this was awesome. In practice, it's looking kind of awful. I'm coming around 20 runs now, without ever seeing one tank piece drop. I obviously can't verify this past personal experience, but it seems like to compensate for fewer tanks, they lowered the drop rates on tank gear in general to make it more "fair" for the abundant DPS.

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Originally Posted by redisdrunk

In theory, this was awesome. In practice, it's looking kind of awful. I'm coming around 20 runs now, without ever seeing one tank piece drop. I obviously can't verify this past personal experience, but it seems like to compensate for fewer tanks, they lowered the drop rates on tank gear in general to make it more "fair" for the abundant DPS.

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There are 3 main possibilities... each gearset have equal chance, weighted against jobs, weighted against role distribution.
Worst case gives a 6.9% chance of no tank gear dropping in 20 runs. You might just have bad luck.

You guys say that... But all I've ever seen drop from CT2 has been DRG & MNK gear... And they never get picked up... OK I saw 1 WHM piece and It's mine