The Cutscene Skipping Debate - Change of View

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

About the OP, I see few options:

1. OP done it all, and now he does not care anymore about CS
2. OP states that if majority of players wants skip CS, then force skip CS even to new players, is legit
3. OP is a Cretan

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Congratulations, you have managed to miss the point. {please insert a joke about going the extra mile here}

The OP is basically saying, "No, DF is not only for first timers. If you expect others to respect first-timers, first timers better respect the others too, better skip a bunch of cutscenes than never entering CM in the first place"

The PF is not for first timer period. There is no and, but, except whatever. The first timers have NO way to know how or what to set up the party finder for. That is just utter nonsense to expect 1st-timers to do that. The speed runners should use the PF for speed running, but then they don't because there is no reward for that. They just want to take the reward for granted is all and run roughshod over all the noobs.

The OP just want to rationalize his loss of empathy and forget how he once was noob too, and just want to take the rewards for granted. Skipping cutscenes should be automatically disabled by the system if there is a 1st-timer. That is how it should be done, but SE decided to let people try to do this with their best behavior.

I leveled a tank so I can go to Castrum and Praetorium and tell everyone of those speed runners to wait for the 1st-timers. I queue main scenario roulette regularly to do exactly that. And it is like a 1 in 20 chance that I get a 1st-timer, the other 19 times I get fast myths, so you are really get 19x the rewards to sit thru the cutscenes once. This deal is more than fair and you still can't care about that 1st-timere. Talk about elitist attitudes! Taking everything and everyone else for granted.

Foo, then why does the "newcomers welcome", and "Story focused - no cutscene skipping" options exist in party finder? I found the party finder long before the last dungeon. While I can accept some may not have it's certainly an option for many. The issue is that it's used very little for anything other than experienced only groups of farming groups. The learning groups are normally only for very hard content not regular dungeons.

I didn't lose my empathy Foo. I joined a first timer for a Quarn run that he set up in duty finder last week. We explored all the area's and got all the chests. There was nothing in it for me but enjoying seeing this player enjoy his first run (i guess it was just fun for me too). I invited the player to my linkshell which is dedicated to helping people find a patient and considerate group, particularly for first time runs. Another player was shouting in Mor Dohna for a first time Castrum Run. I invited them to my shell, but unfortunately couldn't get a group together as everyone in my FC, and 3 linkshells was busy (out of my control). I asked them if they'd like me to join in duty finder, but they preferred not to. I am always happy to help any new player. Since 2.8 and forever more, I'll be setting my party finder search criteria for story focused, slow and easy, newcomers welcome and they'll have a white mage so long as I'm on and not in a group already. I really think this is the best option for new players (far better than making cutscenes mandatory for all) and hope square can improve this area and make it more apparent to casual / new players (see my suggestions in OP). Just so you know, I have done about 3 speedruns ever. I don't enjoy them at all - this being about me losing empathy is way off.

I was actually inspired by one of your own posts back along to enter duty finder and reclaim it for noobs. I'm a healer and I would stay back with any new player while they watched the cutscenes. I still would, but I'll no longer start to harass the other players telling them they are selfish for not waiting. If I can I'll encourage the group to wait for the player, if most aren't willing and can carry on regardless, I can respect that decision and will simply wish the new player the best (offer assistance after if on my server).

I'm not talking about letting the new players get bullied into skipping scenes and rushing through. I'm talking about dealing with the situation in the best way and not judging others.

If the cutscenes were mandatory then players would not get a group for days... some new players would rather just get the clear than queue for days. Don't you see that? If you keep queuing and helping out other new players I am totally supporting that, but I won't support anyone who'll guilt and harass players who decide they aren't happy to do the run slowly (also I won't support players who guilt and harass players to speed up).

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Originally Posted by Velo_Vandore

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If the cutscenes were mandatory then players would not get a group for days... some new players would rather just get the clear than queue for days....

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The reward is still really good even if cutscenes are mandatory in the 1 out of 20 runs (the odds you get a 1st -timer). People will whine, because they can, but they will still do the DR main scenario because 19 out 20 they get quick myths. People are taking the reward for granted is problem. The no cutscene skipping option exists on the PF, but it is really wishful thinking that anyone can figure that out and then use it.

Asking a first timer to use the PF is a non-starter. They can not know what they do not know. Some of them do not even know how do operate journal in the inn.

I missread. I thought you were saying the cutscenes should always be mandatory, but now see you're saying only if a new player is present.

I actually think that would be worth a try to see if people still come. My concern would be that most players would just leave the duty after the first scene, but maybe I should be more optimistic.

EDIT: I suppose even if they did leave that's not worse than right now, unless the new player is frustrated that everyone is leaving even though they wouldn't mind skipping the scenes.

Let's face it, the people who actually care about "muh immersion" and wish to watch all cutscenes while having the whole party wait for them are a fringe minority right now.

Yes, I say right now because the game has moved on.

Where there used to be a large pool of players who wished to do Storyline missions (CM + Prae) for the storyline, are now replaced with players who are doing it for the roulette bonuses.

Anyway with the introduction of pre-made full party roulettes, I already foresee even longer waiting times for new players who want to clear those missions.

Sooner or later, playing the game fresh as a DPS will become less and less viable due to there being a lack of players to pull from to create a full party for them to run dungeons to begin with.

So after facing hours and hours in the queue you think these new players will still complain about being forced to skip cutscenes? I think not. It's either skip cutscenes or go back to waiting if you're unlucky enough to get kicked.

Sure you can report them for kicking you but end of the day the biggest loser is still the new player as he/she is now stuck waiting in queue for hours again.

Now the luckier people who choose to go tanks/heals for their first classes would face less of such problems but at the end of the day, I doubt people expect everyone to start the game off as a tank or healer right? If that were the case, there'd be no issues such as "long DPS queues" in the first place. Then there's people who can't/won't ever want to play tanks or healers. What about them then?

So yes, roulettes are there to help new players. But not in the way most people miscontrued it. Roulettes were originally added to ease up long queuetimes on older dungeons. If you get a group that's willing to be helpful and will wait for you to watch cutscenes, congratulations you just won the ffxiv DF lottery.

I say the devs should come up with a poll for new players when they reach level 50 before they unlock CM and Prae with the question:
"Would you rather wait longer for uninterrupted cutscene viewing?"

and see the results.

Pretty sure most players just want to get those dungeons out of the way and progress further in the storyline than sit on their asses waiting for a dungeon to pop.

Roulette tomes are a reward for helping people. Helping people means sometimes you get noobs. When you get a noob, earn your tomes by helping them have a good experience, which means encouraging them to watch cutscenes.

If you don't think the reward is worth helping people, then don't use duty finder. You can SR Brayflox no problem.

OP, you feel your view has evolved, but actually you've lost sight of the purpose of the roulette reward.

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Originally Posted by OPneedNerfs

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"Would you rather wait longer for uninterrupted cutscene viewing?"
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The assunmption that people will wait longer is false. The myth rewards has attracted people to run Praetorium and CM as it is, when they do really nothing else for them. The odds of getting a 1st-timer is low. We should actually celebrate the fact that there are first timers because that means the game is picking up new players instead of treating them like crap and forcing them to skip. So if cut scenes skipping is blocked if there are 1st-timers, this block will really only engage 1 out of 20 times. People will run the for the reward they take for granted and whine about it, but there will be no longer wait times, they still want those rewards they take for granted.

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Originally Posted by Velo_Vandore

... My concern would be that most players would just leave the duty after the first scene, but maybe I should be more optimistic.
....

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Some people do leave and some people cuss me out for trying to help the 1st-timer. If they keep up the harassment, I have all the evidence to report them and I have reported them and talked to the GM for the investigations. The people that leave, it is their choice, and I could care less, and fact remains it is almost always instant refilled. I can solo tank CM or Praetorium, and you can run 1 healer no problem. The DPS refills are guaranteed instants. So the reward as it is more than attractive enough.

And sometimes I get a nice surprise from people saying how they finally get to play thru and seeing everything as it should for the first time out their all their numerous of runs and finally get to appreciate it.

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Originally Posted by Yoji

Don't know if it's been suggested already, seems such a simple solution to me: allow cut scenes to be watched BEFORE queuing for duty (from the menu) and remove cut scene auto-play at the start of dungeons?

Edit: I guess the problem is mid-duty cut scenes? Didn't think about that.

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This would be great. Let the people new to the dungeon view the CS when they que up for the run and allow people to just skip all of the CSs with a button click. I'm relatively new so there is a ton of content I haven't done, but skip a lot of the CSs because I don't want to get left behind. My first run on the main scenario dungeon where you ride the Magitek mount I ended up being completely lost because everyone left me behind (and I was even skipping the CSs, but for some reason my PC takes forever to even let me skip). I would just like something that would let me auto-skip previously viewed CSs like they have for the previously viewed travel scenes.

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Originally Posted by Maduro

...I'm relatively new so there is a ton of content I haven't done, but skip a lot of the CSs because I don't want to get left behind....

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First timers should never have to feel this way or be pressured this way. If 1st-timer no skip was implemented, no 1st-time will ever have to feel like that. Skip should only be done when people have done them before.

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Originally Posted by Foo01

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The queuetime argument was against people saying the roilette bonuses are negligible or even if cutscenes were made unskippable, they'd still do it.

Your post actually proves this point further by saying if people want faster tomes, just do bray sr. With roulette bonuses and skipping of cutscenes and maybe speedrunning them, cm and prae could turn out to be more tome efficient. However, if anything was done to the tome rewards or time taken to finish said dungeons, more people will gravitate towards bray sr for their tomes.

That ends up with the queuetimes getting longer for newer players. It just isn't happening yet as nothing is done nor can be done to discourage cutscene skipping.

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Originally Posted by Foo01

I leveled a tank so I can go to Castrum and Praetorium and tell everyone of those speed runners to wait for the 1st-timers. I queue main scenario roulette regularly to do exactly that. And it is like a 1 in 20 chance that I get a 1st-timer, the other 19 times I get fast myths, so you are really get 19x the rewards to sit thru the cutscenes once. This deal is more than fair and you still can't care about that 1st-timere. Talk about elitist attitudes! Taking everything and everyone else for granted.

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Same. It's a shame that being a tank is practically required if you want to get the most out of story dungeons (or help out others who do), but so be it.

I don't have a problem if a whole group wants to do a speed run -- and in fact, they can be pretty fun to do.

But, if someone's new, I'll always call that out first and let them decide if we should go fast or go easy. This is basic courtesy.

I don't mind cutscenes with new players. It gives me a chance to rebuff people with stuff like stoneskin. I can also type out the boss fight explanations while they watch the cutscene, so that when the newbies get out they have the information they need.

I think if people want to continue the run while someone watches a cutscene that is their choice. What I don't like is people being hostile about it. There is no reason to be rude. I understand having to run dungeons for all the myth needed for animus is annoying, but that isn't an excuse to yell at new players. You can ask them to please skip cutscenes if you are in that much of a hurry. Ask, don't go "OMG SKIP THE CS YOU NEWB!!!"

That is the only thing that bothers me. I join lower level dungeons a lot to help out. I've run into a lot of good new players that just need a bit of direction. I only get a bad new player once in a blue moon. Like yesterday during chimera it was a new tank so me (healer) and my friend (warrior tank) tried to help him out with positioning and he just screamed at us.

Anyway I'm getting off topic now but yeah, I don't mind people skipping cutscenes and continuing the run just don't be hostile towards those watching them.

Oh also, about the mentoring. I feel their shouldn't be a reward more then just the points. If their is a reward, people would only do it for the reward rather than helping the player. Kind of like how people did commendation farming just for the reward. Only keep the points so that people can see how helpful someone can be as a mentor. I think that is enough satisfaction for people who are actually trying to help.

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Originally Posted by OPneedNerfs

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Your post actually proves this point further by saying if people want faster tomes, just do bray sr. .

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19 out of 20 times you can be more efficient with CM or Pratorium, people will still do it. Beside most new level 50s can't run Bray SR even if they wanted to. So for a while they will do that just time. My point in no way says people will all run Brayflox SR. People want to change things up at times, want different mix. DR is roulette. the odds of you landing a 1st-timer is like 1 in 20, good odds in favor of the gambler.

Just to be I am not against the speedrun, nor am I asking for cutscenes to be mandatory all the time. The only tweak that is needed is the 1st-timer no skip. That happens less than 5% of the time, but it is a world of difference for the 1st-timer. Nobody is going to fuss after they've seen it once and can access it in the inn to review to their hearts content. The problem is the speed runners forcing speed run on everyone all the time ignoring the fact that for that 5% odds you got a 1st-timer. Be nice to the new guy, getting new players help keep the game alive and helps it grow. The other 95% of the time you get quick myths that gets taken for granted.

As long as the thread turned to a discussion about what DF is, let's face the facts.

- DF is a tool to create parties.
- it is written nowhere it is intended for newbie's sake
- on other side, it is written nowhere it is intended for veteran's sake

So, DF is just a game tool, that everyone uses for any reason, and no reason is more or less legit than another. So, unless SE states something about it, we cannot say the use of DF must enforce one rule or another.

There are players who:
1- enjoy cutscenes only the first time, then want skip them if doing same duty again
2- enjoy cutscenes always
3- always skip cutscenes
4- skip them but have no problems on wait players viewing them

Type 4 is out our discussion, they just don't care if cs or not cs.

The only problem to address is when a party have type 2 and 3 (and 1 on repeating duty) mixed together.

As things are now, with the fact that kicking out players for watching cutscenes is a bannable conduct, the only thing you all can do when someone watch a cs, is either wait him, or go ahead.

Waiting others, is something that is part of "living in a community", a thing that some people have problems to do, but they must adapt to. Waiting someone watching a cs, is the same as waiting in queue in a public office, or somewhere else.

When you want make things fast but at the office there is someone slow ahead you, you just call it bad luck and wait. The same is with duty parties, if you get mixed you call it bad luck and wait.

Shouting frustration on forum about the bad luck of finding bad people on DF parties, maybe can distress the shouting one, but does solve nothing.

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

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- it is written nowhere it is intended for newbie's sake
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It is not written because it does NOT have to be. And everyone gets something out of the DF anyways, all those bonus reward being taken for granted are not accessible to the newbie. It doesn't take a genius to know why that is incentivised that way. A reward to experienced players to help the newbie, only that 19 out 20 times there is no newbie/1st-timer and people still get the freebie reward.

Additional bait can be used to encourage people to watch cutscene, like rolls for loot drops that include a change for iLevel50 gear or something, these drops are only available for need or greed for players that watch the cutscenes, those that skip are treated as a pass.

You're assuming that DF was originally designed to help first timers, and that it is supposed to be. I don't think so. Remember: first timers only get called first timers once. When you're leveling your gajillionth class, even if you're level 1 you're no longer a first timer, but you still would have to be able to queue for lower level dungeons if you want it that way. I'd seriously say that's the intent. FATE is a fecal mistress.

Hell, add additional tomes when you watch the cutscene in full, done and done, everyone's happy

I love all of these game's cut-scenes, therefore I need to play them :D . If people wipe too bad for them for not ready-checking.

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Originally Posted by Razzle

The CS watchers defenders don't want others to "take it slow". They want others to stop playing. "Taking it slow" to me, is playing (as in DOING something) at a slow pace, not speed running. But it does not mean not playing at all, or standing around.

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Your statement has about as much weight as people complaining about the relic weapons. Don't want to waste your time? Then DON'T. This game gives you plenty of alternatives to the measly 100 myth this roulette gives that can be farmed in half the time outside of roulette. Quit queuing up for something you don't enjoy.

So much text in here for something so small :

Older players enabled cutscene skip > good
New players didn't and see the cutscenes > tell them about the cutscene skipper, maybe they don't know.
If they're 1st timers > leave them alone.

There ! Problem solved !
Now let's go look at those sweet ninja screenshots!