2.3 Frontline What do we know?

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Originally Posted by KitkatRoll

i will enjoy myself and im glad morale doesnt work, i actually dont give a fuck that ur rank 40 but then say thanks to ur win traders partners cause of that they canceled morale dont u see? are u f blind?

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wut

/10char

If SE has made it so that morale is not factored into Frontlines, then I would hope that they plan to address the community and explain what purpose they see for PvP gear is and why bother earning wolf marks from here on out.

Some of you people really don't get it, you think a large scale pvp was ever meant to(or could ever) be more competitive than an arena type setup? This was always going to be accessible for everyone to try and i'm glad they're equalizing gear for it, also if you do pvp just for x gear reward you're doing it wrong.
On another note i have 2 main gripes with this

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Originally Posted by Nalien

I mean, obviously it's Maelstrom v Twin Adder v Immortal Flames, but doesn't that royally suck if your friends are in a different Grand Company? I

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Yes it does, and while they still haven't confirmed whether or not you will only be able to fight for the gc you're aligned to or if they would make any adjustments to alignment system, either way it just should NOT be restricted they should make you fight for random x team regardless of alignment...
Then there's the issue of there being no class restrictions, i really hope they have something to balance this because i think anyone who pvped a bit knows about how imbalanced classes are, and we might just see same class stacking... really hope not.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

EDIT: Apparently Morale has no influence in Frontlines, and the iLv is capped at 80... Now I'm disappointed... I see what he meant by "Frontlines will be a good place for players to practice for real PvP", back when he said that I said I feared he meant Wolves Den is "real" PvP.

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*Edit: Nvm, found it*
And yes again, if you were expecting large scale pvp to ever be meant to be more competitive than arena small party death match, i dunno what you were thinking. There's also nothing inherently wrong with Wolves den, it's fun when you have teams who know what they're doing.
There's just a bit of balancing issues,which should be coming or i can't see frontlines as anything more than a big mess, and the fact that most of the population isn't decently geared, which frontlines should help with, would be awesome if they added some ladder competition to it.

Omg lol morale might not be factored into frontlines?!
If it's capped at i80, then it all matters on skill and knowledge of the arena.
Good choice SE good choice.

not using morale stats in a pvp enviroment is like the old guy telling link : "its dangerous to go alone, take this ... well actually you dont need this.. fck it use the boomerang dude"...

/ZeldaReference

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Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

Omg lol morale might not be factored into frontlines?!
If it's capped at i80, then it all matters on skill and knowledge of the arena.
Good choice SE good choice.

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Well yeah, experienced/good PvPers will still be at an advantage, especially if you form an 8 man group of good pvpers in the same GC. Also if if PvP skills come into play, then higher ranks will still have that too. Idk I was really upset at first, but meh, you are right, all skill now I suppose

BUT what about missing 4th stat due to no morale and melds, wonder how that's gonna work

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Originally Posted by Epistane

especially if you form an 8 man group of good pvpers in the same GC.

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Am i the only one who sees how bad it will be if you can only play for your own gc??(we don't know yet though)

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Originally Posted by Pibz

Am i the only one who sees how bad it will be if you can only play for your own gc??(we don't know yet though)

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I mean I see it too bro. List of things:

1. No morale in frontlines
2. PvP gear missing a 4th stat in frontlines
3. GC

Hmm what else..

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Originally Posted by Epistane

I mean I see it too bro. List of things:

1. No morale in frontlines
2. PvP gear missing a 4th stat in frontlines
3. GC

Hmm what else..

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I was referring specifically to the possibility(seems highly likely at this point) of people being only able to play for the gc they're aligned to as opposed to them being just teams to which players are assigned randomly to create better queue times and no restriction of with who you play with.

As for the morale thing, meh if it means there won't be completely useless people using i55 pvp gear as there are at the moment in wolves den i welcome it lol.
Though i hope they will at some point implement something like a pvp ladder and i bet that's the point: Frontlines as "pvp lvling up" and wolves den(maybe other arena formats in the future too) as the more competitive and punishing side of pvp.

As for the stats thing we have no indication how it will work, keep in mind it will most likely be a different system from level syncing and won't work the same.

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Originally Posted by Pibz

Though i hope they will at some point implement something like a pvp ladder and i bet that's the point: Frontlines as "pvp lvling up" and wolves den(maybe other arena formats in the future too) as the more competitive and punishing side of pvp.

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I could almost deal with losing the morale stat in Frontlines if they implemented a ladder...Dear Rhalgr, one can only hope...

if there is enough uproar in the community , I am sure SE will fix it
my suggestions as follows

General PVP fixes:
1- have nullify on 30-60sec CD immediatly, and put a 5sec buff of invulnerability to any CC stun sleep etc.
2- give each class a limit break gauge that can be used individually and not as a group. this will bring up tactics of bursting enemy players if there are many healers in their team etc.
3- increase CD of charge skill in pvp, but also keep TPs up at the same time.
Frontlines Fixes:
1- have 2 versions of frontlines, one is for everyone with ilvl sync of 80, and no morale effect etc. but they will not get exp pvp or marks, just soldeiry/myths and the mounts. enough people going in for fun, i am sure then some will want to go to the real frontlines which is the 2nd version where morale matters and u get exp pvp and marks on top of everything else. this 2nd version will have a board showing players with most kills/points etc.
2- both versions, should not have points cap and allow people leave/enter during the 30min time frame, the winning team is the team with the most point at the end of 30min. if you join midway, your total soldeiry/myths rewards will be calculated proportionate to how much contribution you give. ( in this method, it will be sorta an open world since its just 30min after 30min of fights and you just join at any point with no delay at all)


Wolves Den fixes:

nothing really but very simple add on. have 5 matches instead of one and increase the wolf mark/exp pvp out of all 5/ ie the current wolf mark reward x5. this will really make it much more fun since you can try different tactics and might win 3-2 etc. another option is to have 30min fixed timer, where the team keep respawning with 15sec to be able to release to start of zone. but I prefer the first option.


I honestly think the suggestions above will make pvp in this game very different and enjoyable and most of all highly competitive.

/endrant

Losing Morale gear is the worst thing that has happened to pvp. It basically says to the pvp fan base "Hey, we know we gave you cool armor instead of updated arenas. We know we teased the direction of pvp was to include progression so we added 10 more ranks and cool new gear, instead of updated arenas. We know the queue times are horrible because people are bored of playing 4v4 in just one arena. We're patching in everyone can have pvp abilities to bring new players to pvp, hopfully they understand that it's only one arena and no variety. We made it a huge grind so that way most of you can enjoy just one single arena. We are planning to now introduce, finally, an awesome way to pvp. We only allow pvp gear in wolves den, but we know you'll still play it because its one arena. We love how queues times will be longer for wolves den because theres only one arena and new pvp elsewhere."

Seems good but let me queue/play with people from other GCs please. PVP players are rare enough, don't divide them by GC.

Or let me switch grand company one time without losing my rank, thanks!

We are upset because is a punch in our faces.
It's like a FC who clear T9 during months, and when a new content is released, SE say "Hey, you can't use your high allagan gear in the new high end content because we want a balance between new players and hardcores".

I gonna do pvp i love it, but i feel i wasted my time grinding pvp gear

Does anyone here actually play PvP for the reason that PvP is fun?

I do think PvP is fun. Just like those that do Coil T9 think it's fun. But to remove the reward for working on it is f'd up.

That's why we're (people who have same opinion as me) mad. The playerbase that actually enjoyed PvP and played it for fun gets their reward removed, while players that didn't enjoy PvP are left unscathed. I'd even argue that PvPers gearing up for Frontlines were more excited about it, and thus it hurts even more. Now I do know there is a group of people who didn't find wolves den fun but like pvp so were waiting on Frontlines. But that group surely has to be very aware that they would be undergeared come frontlines and were preparing to grind through the initial gearing.

I agree with Rappa 100%

The PvP we have now isn't the same PvP i'm used to, so I do have a harder time understanding the reasoning behind the complaints. The PvP I am used to generally rewards skill and knowledge, gear usually doesn't ever factor into the system. The rewards were the satisfaction of defeating your opponent and some PvP EXP that gave your a rank that did nothing more then change the symbol beside your name. From what it looks like to me is that Frontlines allows for more people to enter PvP without having to deal with the progression system that was quite punishing to new players (which I would think is part of the problem with the very long queue times and lack of interest by newer people).

I'm sure there will be a Frontlines that allows you to use your PvP gear against other players with equal or better PvP gear later on but let newer players join in the fun and have an entry into PvP so you guys have more people to PvP and your queue times aren't so horrible. This is basically the Crystal Tower of PvP.

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Originally Posted by Rawk

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Yes I pvp for fun and does it get the feel of a 3 way AB? I wonder if Yoshi-P is taking PvP in the direction of Bgs and Arena?

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Originally Posted by tehomegaking

Please stop posting stuff like this. Obviously he cares about PVP.

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I didn't say he didn't care but that he seems to have given up. He can care all he wants! But by removing the value of morale and putting PvE gear on par with or better than PvP gear that to me says that he has no faith that Frontlines will be intrinsically fun enough to garner more players' interest in PvP unless he waves the carrot of tomestones, mounts and insultingly low entry requirements in front of people's faces. But one thing he clearly doesn't care about is the existing PvP community's time spent farming or money spent on materia melds.

Edit: I've been a staunch supporter of Yoshida's vision for this game and have been on board with him since the day he was announced as the new producer/director but this is just unconscionable. And the notion that we should continue to excuse poor design and implementation because the game "was rushed" is ludicrous at this point. I gave them a free pass with 1.0 4 years ago and I'm tired of being led on with promises to "please look forward" to something only to have them screw it up like this.

I would like to point out that PvP materia *could* be a saving grace here. But melding pvp materia on pvp gear wouldn't that be the same as having a morale advantage? Maybe not as an exact thing, but we'll also see a rise of crafted gear with pvp materia in it, and that would become the new "pvp" gear. There was probably alot of thought put into their decision. I still think that it's a poor move and should be re-thought.

EDIT: Spelling

At this point I don't care if they do away with morale entirely. I just want to know that PvP gear plays a role in PvP progression. If that means that the gear bought at the Wolves' Den is the only gear that can have +3 Stun Resistance or +3 Sleep Resistance then I'm totally fine with that. I agree with everyone that utterly monkeystomping people in arena or battlegrounds isn't good for anyone. But there has to be value behind the grind to get that i90/i100 PvP gear.

But if morale is out the window without any further changes that means that Direwolf and the i100 gear is completely obsolete without a replacement stat.

well ... at least my pvp sets will make nice souvenirs

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Originally Posted by Ragecake

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How do you figure I'm entitled by saying that work should provide a reward? Is it entitled to say that someone who completes their Animus upgrade should have a better weapon than something bought at a vendor? Is it entitled to say that someone who farms tomestones should be able to exchange them for something worth their time? I'm not even arguing from my own situation because I'm Rank 26 and don't have even half of the Direwolf gear. Yet I'm arguing in favor of the people who have the i100 gear because I think that they deserve a return for the investment of their time. That's the plain truth about this: people (including myself) who spent their time preparing for Frontlines in order to have a competitive advantage are getting screwed because the gear is now obsolete. Without the morale stat, all PvP gear is inferior to their PvE counterparts. End of story. If Morale is removed then it must be replaced with something that makes PvP gear competitive again. This is not entitlement. It's common sense that when you're presented with an opportunity to work in a video game, then you should have a reasonable expectation that your work will pay off.

I won't even bother with responding to the rest of your insults.

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Originally Posted by Rawk

The playerbase that actually enjoyed PvP and played it for fun gets their reward removed, while players that didn't enjoy PvP are left unscathed.

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^ This. The people who didn't like PVP were probably alot of the same ones who thought they were going to waltz up in their 50 Job gear in level 50 arenas, thinking they were going own it, then when the gate opened, they got crushed and destroyed by r30s/r40s, time and time again, over and over and now they hate arenas all because they were in the wrong arena. in 30/40s arenas, PVP gear doesn't even matter anyway so if they were in 50s with no PVP gear and got crushed, that's their own fault. 50s is suppose to be a challenging reward, not a revolving door for people who just hit level 50. I don't see why people can't understand that.

Before the patch they bchd and moaned about getting smashed by r30s and now after the patch they are still bching and moaning about getting smashed by r40s. Some people are never satisfied. The people who are getting crushed in Wolve's Den, will be the same ones getting crushed in Frontlines and will be the same ones coming back to the forums to bch and moan about something else. Inb4 the bching and moaning about players in Frontlines.

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Originally Posted by Shake0615

That's the plain truth about this: people (not myself) who spent their time preparing for Frontlines in order to have a competitive advantage are getting screwed because their gear is now obsolete.

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I understand the need for people to jump into a bg and roflstomp everyone with thier pvp weapons and gears, but the designers clearly didn't want that. They want Frontlines to be accessible to ALL.

ilvl 100 pvp isn't useless. It's currently pretty good for Wolf's Den and glamours and bragging rights.

With R40 and ilvl 100 pvp gear, you aren't preparing Frontlines. You're preparing for the future of pvp in FFXIV ARR.

So hold on your crazy amazing pvp gear. I'm pretty sure there will be more usage for pvp gear in the future.

Please look forward to it!

And yes, you seem to be portraying yourself as entitled. wtf

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Originally Posted by Epistane

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*butthurt intensifies*

oooooooook buddy. If you really say so.

Until next time.

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Originally Posted by Shake0615

However, please don't make the mistake of assuming that I'm defending a system that allows i100 players to one-shot others. Not at all! I've gotten slammed by enough high rank, high item level parties in my time. I just feel that if Morale is to be phased out of large scale encounters then there MUST be a replacement stat on the PvP gear that makes it useful in Frontlines (or maybe a set bonus?). Otherwise, a player like myself who hasn't even tried the new Coil Turns for lack of interest will be compelled to complete PvE content that I don't want to in order to play the PvP content that I do. At the moment that isn't a problem because Frontlines will be synced to 80, but in the future that will change.

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I'll quote myself here to point out that I am not in favor of having a "roflstomping" kind of competitive advantage. I don't feel the need to go be a god on the battlefield and wag my e-peen in everyone's face. But when I began my grind through the Wolves' Den, I did it with the understanding that my work would pay off in gear much the same way that my trek through the Binding Coil would provide me with gear. If their intent was never to include PvP gear as a part of Frontlines, they simply should have been more up front about it and I frankly wouldn't have bothered with the Wolves' Den at all. Again, the issue here is that PvP gear has been unnecessarily and unceremoniously deprecated to the point that it is useless in what appears to be one of the major focal points of FFXIV's PvP.

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Originally Posted by Ragecake

*butthurt intensifies*

oooooooook buddy. If you really say so.

Until next time.

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Loled hard at having it to edit it from "rage intensifies" to butthurt intensifies. Whoa bro you are so cool, the pinnacle of badassery. Probably still rereading his post to come up with other ways to spit out his insults. And lol at all his posts. You REALLY are cool posting rustled jimmies memes as your responses. No like really, you are cool as fck. Gonna quote my favorite poster's post on these forums in response

"Are you that stupid? Super serious question: are you stupid?"

LMAO

http://crazycraggle.com/home/wp-cont...even-lift.jpeg

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Originally Posted by Shake0615

I'll quote myself here to point out that I am not in favor of having a "roflstomping" kind of competitive advantage. I don't feel the need to go be a god on the battlefield and wag my e-peen in everyone's face. But when I began my grind through the Wolves' Den, I did it with the understanding that my work would pay off in gear much the same way that my trek through the Binding Coil would provide me with gear. If their intent was never to include PvP gear as a part of Frontlines, they simply should have been more up front about it and I frankly wouldn't have bothered with the Wolves' Den at all.

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Shake, don't even bother. He speaks of balance, but how is it balance when a certain gear will be completely missing a stat. HAVING 3 STATS VS 4 STATS IS BALANCE AMIRITE

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Originally Posted by Epistane

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I'll get back to you tomorrow when you've calmed down.

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Originally Posted by Shake0615

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Wow. It sounds like you don't have much fun in this game. Heartbreaking to see... :(

Also, do you even read my posts?

More on this tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by Ragecake

I'll get back to you tomorrow when you've calmed down.

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No need to bro. Ur right, my jimmies are pretty rustled. Altho, was sorta messing around. Sorry, lol. I actually agree with most of what you posted.

Dat 3 stat vs 4 stat is what gets me tho

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Originally Posted by Epistane

Well yeah, experienced/good PvPers will still be at an advantage, especially if you form an 8 man group of good pvpers in the same GC. Also if if PvP skills come into play, then higher ranks will still have that too. Idk I was really upset at first, but meh, you are right, all skill now I suppose

BUT what about missing 4th stat due to no morale and melds, wonder how that's gonna work

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It's not going to work.
We all know SE won't really adress this until after launch with player feedback. So until then looks like pvp just got more casual ( it's suppose to appeal to the fresh masses? )

in all honesty it can really be easily solved by having 2 versions of frontlines, one with current rewards and no morale. and one with more rewards and morale included etc

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Originally Posted by Yumi_umi

So until then looks like pvp just got more casual ( it's suppose to appeal to the fresh masses? )

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- Rank required on gear were nerfed !!!
- Duty finder use rank in its research
- All abilities are unlock for all
- 110 pve > 100 pvp
- Jobnames are displayed on opponent's head

Now, you have ilvl80 sync !!!! Yeah, what about next update ????

I think that next ajustement will be an echo buff for all noobs !!! Because noobs always remain noobs !!!!

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Originally Posted by Ragecake

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I feel entitled to my PvP gear, I earned it and it's PvP gear not wolves den gear. The issue here isn't that we want to be pvp gods, cause frankly we're that skilled anyway and will stomp in Frontlines regardless. The issue is that SE has rendered our gear useless that we worked for under the safe assumption that PvP gear would work in PvP only to be let down. You know friends that are excited for frontlines that don't pvp? Yeah they'd probably still be excited regardless. You know we are excited about frontlines too, I'd argue more-so because we spent a lot of effort getting gear FOR frontlines. It's not even that absurd to think of how we could assume it was going to be used in Frontlines.

I am entitled to my gear, no shame in that.

Also, I've said this before, morale stat is vastly overrated. It's actually not that powerful as people like to believe. A set of ilvl70 gear and you're fine as long as you learn how to pvp.

Can't wait for Frontlines! Sounds awesome! :)

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Originally Posted by Rawk

Also, I've said this before, morale stat is vastly overrated. It's actually not that powerful as people like to believe. A set of ilvl70 gear and you're fine as long as you learn how to pvp.

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I actually agree with you on this. I have a theory though that the dev team is going to rework the moral stat to work differently in the future.

On another note, if you farmed R40 and pvp gear for the reason of Frontlines, you're going to have a bad time.

Again, to those who say that frontline is all about skill and not the equipment because SE has removed the morale stat, have you every played a lvl 30/40 match in wolves den? there is no morale in there due to sync, but guess what, i still have all my abilties and enhancements on my PVP skills. So guess what is going to happen in frontline when i fight someone new to pvp and doesn't have the rank i do? i'm going to beat them. But, eventually everyone new will complain that it's not fair that i get to use my skills and enhancements so SE will remove those to make it fair. how about SE just keeps frontline like wolves den, lvl 30, 40 and 50 matches and let us keep morale in the 50 matches.

Like I said, this pvp is a training for dummies, put job names on head was a begining, now with ilvl synchronisation, it's no longer possible to use vita or strengh jewelery cause all stat will be capped (like 3800HP)...
RIP PVP

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Originally Posted by rappa

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I know I'm repeating myself, but I think it's called appealing to the masses and getting people interested in pvp.

I know it all too well how it is to farm something and then to immediately use it and getting the achievement. New progression patch comes out, hard work to kill bosses, get the loots, rinse and repeat for the next content patch. I too think it is strange to release a pvp battleground without the use of the pvp stat. I started to question, "What is the grand plan SE is trying to do with Frontline?". I mean, I'm not happy that my pvp gear will be practically rendered useless in Frontlines, but I'm not unhappy either. Even if I did spend 3000 hours solo queuing as dps in the Wolf's Den to get my R40 and ilvl 100 pvp gear, my stance would still be the same on this.

Yes it is strange that moral may have no factor in Frontlines, but it would probably be better to look at the bigger picture of the current and future FFXIV ARR pvp scene.

Everyone ask yourselves: Why would SE make Moral a non-factor in the new battleground Frontlines?