What do you guys think of people buying gil?

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Originally Posted by Amberion

Actually, they could go after them for selling their Intellectual property. But there is a reason that they don't do that. And that is because they might lose.

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Even if they did win a case like that, China seems to follow a pretty different set of rules when it comes to Intellectual Property.

Example.

I'm not a programming guru, so I don't know the exact difficulties that would be associated with this type of action. But I still think it would be fantastic if SE were to deal with RMT, but could still retain some profits in the long run as well.

How I propose that. If a person is spamming you in /tell for RMT, you blacklist them - A secondary prompt window appears "Do you suspect this person is a RMT?" or some other more legally proper phrase. If you select yes, nothing happens right away, but that person is on your blacklist. However, now that person's name is being fed to a division within the GM network as well.

Once a week, a team of indiviuals from within SE comb across the flagged names they received. Looking for patterns, multiple /tells which indicate spamming or bot use, RMT harassment/advertising, etc. Now the fun part.

Using their own system to backtrack that character's name to the account associated to it, they immediately move that player to an isolated server outside of the normal ones. This particular account is locked in, they cannot leave. I do not know how difficult it is for a company to contact an ISP (unless they did it as a massive group of IP addresses to a single ISP at one), preventing anyone at that ISP for this account/physical address/name to create a new account elsewhere in the system to another server.

All RMTs and botters are grouped together on the same server, so they can simply spam RMT tells to each other.

It would be glorious.

It doesn't bother me at all if someone is stupid enough to buy in game currency. I don't even get bothered by the 1-2 tells I get each day I play, It takes 5secs to Blacklist them. If players want to buy in game currency thats their choice, Even if its against ToS. Gil in this game is worthless.

I want people to stop buying gil so the spammers will go away. That directly affects and annoys me.

Beyond that, what other people do with their money isn't my business.

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Originally Posted by Akujin

A secondary prompt window appears "Do you suspect this person is a RMT?" or some other more legally proper phrase.

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There is no technical obstacle to that. The largest problem is the community. The potential for abuse is enormous. We'd call anyone we don't like a witch and then these GMs would be sent on a wild goose chase.

I think they need to be perma-banned if confirmed.

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Originally Posted by Clavaat

Oh boy.




3. Police the common areas you find RMT - Not reasonable, as this involves people standing by and waiting on server waiting for a suspicious name or activity to pop up. This is a waste of man-hours and would have to me monitored night and day, which is ridiculous to assume of anyone.
4. Immediately respond to any tickets sent - Read above. In addition, they need to make sure the investigation is fairly thorough, otherwise you could be banning innocent players.

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I would be willing to pay for the increased price to devote the man power to enforce the rules on the server. IMO, mmo's are actually to cheap. I would be more than willing to pay $30-$50 a month for good service. but as long as there is a crowd that whines about 14.95 a month for 80-120 hours of entertainment a month, i guess that will never happen.


increased man power is the solution to RMT, just got to pay for it

if you think $14.95 is to much already to pay for 80-120 hours of play time a month, then you get what you deserve

The truth is though, i would likely only cost about $5.00 more a month to pay for the staff to do this

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Originally Posted by Akujin

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A more intuitive way of reporting RMT would be a reasonable solution, and not that difficult programming-wise. It still would not "solve the issue" entirely, but would be a nice addition, assuming they follow the same protocol they do now for following through with a report (prevents banning innocent players from people who report them for something they didn't do). You had me up until the server transfer business. That wouldn't work.

Firstly, they would need to acquire another server (expensive, short and long-term).

Secondly, banning IP's would not work because you can change this client-side, or use a VPN (which most of them are). Even if they weren't, contacting an ISP and asking them to ban certain IP's is incredibly cumbersome.

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Originally Posted by zeroumus

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Holy crap. No. Me and my fiance both play, so we'd be talking $60-$100 a month for a game in 1 household. $1200 a year for a game?! That's insane, the price is fine where it is.

That's beside the point anyway. You'd be asking people to work in shifts, night and day, to sit at a computer and click a name every few hours. Which wouldn't matter anyway because it never ends. Or they get on, bot the /tells, never get on that character again. Anything else, you need to investigate to make sure you have enough evidence to prevent someone from paying to play the game who may be legitimate. Good luck hiring people to do that.

In FFXI, I found it a scummy practice, because it lead to bad players, "favoritism" so to speak and screwed the economy. Vana was a harsh word, so a magically "win gil/items" button heavily screwed everyone.

In this game however gil are useless for anything but vanity, there is no economy and bad players are created by the game system itself, so meh. Still scummy, but don't care much.

again, if you can't devote $1000 ( likely way less than 10% of your income ) dollars to something you spend likely 1/2 your life in, i don't know what to tell ya.

RMT doesn't affect me, and it doesn't affect you. Why do you care?

On Balmung myself and not getting a ton of spam (anymore, thank god) like some people on other servers say they are. It could be because Balmung is one of the servers that regularly gets closed for new character creation, hence hindering/slowing down the RMT a little.

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Originally Posted by MythToken

RMT doesn't affect me, and it doesn't affect you. Why do you care?

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Having to deal with their spam and the inflation they bring to the in-game economy affects me.

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

Having to deal with their spam and the inflation they bring to the in-game economy affects me.

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ya, cuz there is lots of inflation in this "economy"

Does the general concept of paying money for in game currency bother me? No it doesn't.

The fact that it is against SE's policies and supports the RMT that degrades my in game experience, I do not support it. If this was a game designed for it, I wouldn't care... But it isn't so no I do not support paying money for gil in FFXIV ARR.

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

Having to deal with their spam and the inflation they bring to the in-game economy affects me.

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Spam will never go away, how does it actually affect you concerning the economy and inflation?

Are you saying that if there was no RMT, you would have more gil?

Are there things you can't buy because of RMT?

At no point have I ever in this game been like "damn you RMT!!! screwing me again!" It does not affect me or you, you just think it does.

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Originally Posted by Akujin

All RMTs and botters are grouped together on the same server, so they can simply spam RMT tells to each other.

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As amusing as it is to imagine a gilseller server, it wouldn't work; RMT would pick up on the problem pretty much instantly, and any account moved to that server would be immediately destroyed and replaced. Heck, they'd probably automate the process: 1. Purchase account and build character. 2. Shout spam until banned or moved to Gilserver. 3. Delete account. 4. Repeat.

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Originally Posted by MythToken

Are there things you can't buy because of RMT?

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Yes, this is exactly what can and HAS happened if gilsellers get out of control. As an oft-cited example comes from FFXI, with the huge Christmas gil sale. I forget whether it was in 2006 or 2008, but RMT stepped up their gil-gathering efforts to make a huge stockpile and then sold a LOT of it cheaply over the holidays, dumping it into the economy. As a result, hyper-inflation set in. Over a period of about a month, prices on highly-desired items jumped to roughly twenty times their old costs. People with tons of gil to spend (the gilbuyers) were willing to pay whatever prices people auctioned the goods for, and that encouraged people to put new items up for higher prices.

Honest players typically had no more than a million or two gil to their name. Top notch gear typically sold for around 800k before the inflation, and now were selling for 16 million. This was the event that made SE finally sit up and start paying serious attention to the actions of RMT. The RMT task force started cracking down, a lot of gil was seized, and eventually the economy started to settle down. SE also started to get into the practice of making more of the top-tier gear be raid-only with no auctioned component, something they made an explicit design decision in FFXIV (much to the crafters' woe).

So, yes. The actions of RMT can lead to situations where there are things you cannot buy that you might otherwise have been able to. While it may not apply as much in FFXIV for the above stated reason, there ARE things that are still desired and purchased on the Marketboards - for example, Materia (especially for crafters and gatherers). Believe me when I say that it's pretty depressing to spend months scrimping and saving up to purchase something, only to see the price of that thing shoot up twenty times - and the gilsellers are happy to inform you that all you have to do to keep up with the times is buy gil yourself!

Personally my only problem with people that buy gil, is all the other things that comes with RMTs.

Bots, Spam, Other activates.


Beside that, I like this game the way it currently is. Only 1 thing worth spending gil on and people who want to spend gil on that normally have it because really without trying I'm making 200-300k/week and spending about 50k.

Oh only thing worth spending gil on is Meld for crafting and gathering gear. And do you spend 1m gil for perfect melded set to make gil back when? It's a hard call, unless you spend all your time crafting/gathering.

It's always been a taboo subject for me, and it's something I can never support because it's not fair to every other player who earn their keep within the normal bounds of the game.

Since u can purchase every farmable content with gil, it gives even more incentive to the laziest players to just buy it for real cash.

And "Lawful Good" approach can never win against RMT. Only "Chaotic Good" aproach can.

Lucky you if you only get one or two gil spammers every day, but it's different on every server. Mateus is absolutely awful for it. In fact, most people I know turn their status to 'busy' as soon as they log in because the spam has gotten so bad. The spammers have even resorted to 'shouting', 'saying' and then 'yelling' back to back in the cities repeatedly. So yes, it does affect people. It might only be a minor thing but it's still annoying and we shouldn't have to block tells (and shouts, yells and says in my case) because the spam has gotten to the point where I am missing chunks of a conversation from my FC or LS's. 200/200 on my blacklist and not one of them is banned yet.

Irritates the hell out of me because if people would stop buying, the RMT's would stop trying to sell and move off onto greener pastures. I'm suffering the RMT advertisement spam because people are lacking the god-given sense to realize that buying only perpetuates the problem.

have you guys ever considered that it might actually be s/e selling this gil.. or people they hire to do so... I mean who else can blanket /tell every person on a server.... why else would they come out with 200m gil houses.. to make money.. before the new patch it was pretty difficult to make ALOT of gil.. everything on the mb was pretty much worthless even tome mats. if a company needs a boost of revenue.. they can literally make and ingame fake currency and trade it for real life money... its fucking genius if you ask me. and they would be stupid not to.. also.. everyone that pays a subscription fee... you are also an rmt.. <think about that one>

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Originally Posted by omfgwtf

have you guys ever considered that it might actually be s/e selling this gil..

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/tinfoil hat

lol ya maybe

Now if the majority of the gil buyers could please post in this thread and voice their opinion, that would be greaaaat...oh wait

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Originally Posted by Akujin

How I propose that. If a person is spamming you in /tell for RMT, you blacklist them - A secondary prompt window appears "Do you suspect this person is a RMT?" or some other more legally proper phrase. If you select yes, nothing happens right away, but that person is on your blacklist....etc

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Aside from the gilseller server, all of this is basically what happens behind the scenes with the Task Force. What your post amounts to is asking for what many have already asked for. A QoL upgrade wherein you can simply right click to report the spammers instead of having to go into menus to fill out a report. Unfortunately I think the best we might get is an option in the right click menu that takes us to the report form so we'll still need to fill it out. They don't want the GM Team and/or task force flooded with false claims because trolls started right click reporting people for disagreeing with them or just for S&Gs.

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Originally Posted by Lithera

They don't want the GM Team and/or task force flooded with false claims because trolls started right click reporting people for disagreeing with them or just for S&Gs.

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The wouldn't have to inspect every issue, just the numbers. If 1 person reported someone, they would disregard it. But if 50 people blacklisted the same person for the same reason, they should look into it. This would stop the "one person has an issue with someone else" problem. They wouldn't look at individual reports, just numbers.

don't even know what they are spending gil on. there is nothing

1: buying gil only affects people (economically) if you spend it on the auction house.
1.A: That being said, if you arn't spending it on the auction house, and only using it for things like repairs, paying for teleports and the like. Why are you buying gil? XP

2: Regardless how it effects gameplay, if it is against the ToS, then don't do it.
2.A: no smoking in bars. People who wants to get liver damage usually don't give two cents about lung cancer on top of it. Yet, it's against the law.

i actually have more of an issue with the people that buy gil than i do with the people that sell it. i don't blame the person making a living by playing a video game and doing nothing illegal. sure it's against the tos of that game, but it's not illegal. the reason i have more of an issue with the buyers is that without the buyers there would be no sellers. it's a business because so many people pay for it.

i have the same issue with bots and hacks. the reason they are out there for sell is because someone is willing to pay for them and that is the main problem and the reason if you ban one seller another takes its place.

I think most people that buy gil are people who buy runs of EX primals and coil. I think I can safely say a large chunk of the people who actually pay for EX Primal kills or coil runs are gil buyers. A crafter could make that money, but why would someone who dedicates a lot of time to crafting in the game not want to become good at the game in battle?

Most people that buy runs like this are people who craft and live in places where they have bad connection and cannot dodge well or get fed up with bad groups and they don't have people to play with like a static, the rest of them are gil buyers who pay money to get through content that they don't want to bother to learn to do themselves.

I could be wrong though, I have never met anyone that says they buy gil in the game.

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Originally Posted by abzoluut

What do you guys think of people buying gil?

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TBH, I think gil in ARR doesn't worth any real money trade.
I appreciate this good design by SE.

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Originally Posted by Shirai

Uh, this has nothing to do with buying gil.
Rather this is a security issue, people falling for Phishing mechanics like the emails SE warns about, people using the same usernames and passwords on websites with inadequate security measures or RMT sites, not using a security token, etc. etc.

Buying gil does not magically make your character hackable.
And if you are stupid enough to hand out your login details to RMT you deserve it.

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How do you know this? Unless you are buying gil, cause you sure know something instead of speculating.

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Originally Posted by HeroSamson

How do you know this? Unless you are buying gil, cause you sure know something instead of speculating.

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It's long been known that some RMT sites use phishing setups to steal account info to rob said account/s of any gil possible. How else do you think some sites generate so much gil to sell... besides sweat shops in foreign countries.

Some of the advertiser you see are probably stolen accounts. At least the ones that seem to have actual names anyways..

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Originally Posted by HeroSamson

How do you know this? Unless you are buying gil, cause you sure know something instead of speculating.

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Common sense? Unless you decide to give them your Login info, or are dumb enough to not have any kind of antivirus program. But you are even more likely to get a virus through Ad-banners on fansites or such.

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How else do you think some sites generate so much gil to sell

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You will find that ordinary players also sell Gil to them.

First thing (SE) should have done was made GIL Un Tradable, the only way to get it would be the Auction House or Vendor, set a Limit on the Auction House low levels cannot sell anything over 30k until they hit 50 which unless higher selling prices.

Even bags of bronze, Silver and Gold pouches cant be traded. that's how I would stop them.

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Originally Posted by Amberion

Common sense? Unless you decide to give them your Login info, or are dumb enough to not have any kind of antivirus program. But you are even more likely to get a virus through Ad-banners on fansites or such.



You will find that ordinary players also sell Gil to them.

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Let me tell you a story about my friend, he bought some stuff off diablo 2, next day he was hacked and his password was changed all he did was purchase it with his credit card, I told him not to do it and he did. then he had to put a freeze on his credit card because it was being used. this actually happened. you can throw that common sense out the window now.

Hackers have a very good way of doing things all they need is a little information and its over man, you go around saying never gonna happen, just like Sony did and Microsoft and all these big time companies have gotten blasted.

I remember in FFXI all you had to do was go to a certain site and they took your account, I am pretty sure its the same with gil sites.

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Originally Posted by HeroSamson

Let me tell you a story about my friend, he bought some stuff off diablo 2, next day he was hacked and his password was changed all he did was purchase it with his credit card, I told him not to do it and he did. then he had to put a freeze on his credit card because it was being used. this actually happened. you can throw that common sense out the window now.

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He would still have to have given out enough information or gotten infected by a trojan. Also, you are comparing it to a time when banks or companies had hardly any clue about Internet security.