Dungeon Finder

If you don't want to be teleported there, walk to the dungeon entrance and then start the dungeon finder.

Does this new party search include parties for the dungeons? That would be enough for me, as long as people still have to travel to the dungeon itself, and do all prerequisites.

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Originally Posted by giftforce

So I think it's time we tried to 'nip this problem in this bud' before it gets out of hand. Automatic dungeon finders are terrible systems. And yet it's something Yoshi mentioned he might implement sometime in the future. And you know Yoshi, when he gets a bad idea in his head, he usually just goes and implements it without warning anyone (e.g., mob size increase, autoattack, removal of mob behaviour, aggro icon, etc.).

So let's make sure he knows it's a bad idea this time before it's too late.

An automatic dungeon finder is at odds with the philosophy of a massively multiplayer game. It makes it so that all players essentially end up doing is queueing in town for a dungeon. It turns the whole gameworld into an entrance lobby for the real content (dungeons/raids), and we shouldn't allow that.

Plus I'm not really a fan of being teleported between content that has nothing really to do with eachother.

I'm sure there are people in Rift and WoW who don't even know where the dungeons are because they never had to explore or run there, they just got automatically teleported into it through the dungeon-finder mechanic.

And it's especially crap when it's a cross-server mechanic, allowing you to interact with people you will never see again. You can just imagine the type of etiquette involved between people who have no reputation at stake.

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I fully support you on this. I often dont agree with you. But in this case you have my 100% support on this particular topic!

I don't think an automatic dungeon finder would work in this game simply because so many people are against, and if not many people are using it, who wants to wait in a queue for an hour?

We definitely need some tools to find parties for dungeons and whatnot, but the WoW and RIFT method won't work here, I don't think. Not because they're bad ideas, but because too many people on this game aren't into it.

So what kind of dungeon finding tools *do* you want to see is probably the question to ask. Apologies for those that might have given their answers to that already in this or other threads... my forum reading time is very limited so I dont have time to read all the posts.

Cheers!

Gicks

So yeah, what some of you guys want is not a typical 'dungeon finder' ala RIFT and WoW, but a grouping-up mechanism, which I am all for.

The thing I don't want to see is the gameworld becoming trivialised through an instant teleport feature, the playerbase becoming disconnected due to cross-server grouping, and the game becoming an entrance lobby like Guild Wars 1 rather than an MMO.

Automatic dungeon finders = unsocial times.

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Originally Posted by giftforce

So I think it's time we tried to 'nip this problem in this bud' before it gets out of hand. Automatic dungeon finders are terrible systems. And yet it's something Yoshi mentioned he might implement sometime in the future. And you know Yoshi, when he gets a bad idea in his head, he usually just goes and implements it without warning anyone (e.g., mob size increase, autoattack, removal of mob behaviour, aggro icon, etc.).

So let's make sure he knows it's a bad idea this time before it's too late.

An automatic dungeon finder is at odds with the philosophy of a massively multiplayer game. It makes it so that all players essentially end up doing is queueing in town for a dungeon. It turns the whole gameworld into an entrance lobby for the real content (dungeons/raids), and we shouldn't allow that.

Plus I'm not really a fan of being teleported between content that has nothing really to do with eachother.

I'm sure there are people in Rift and WoW who don't even know where the dungeons are because they never had to explore or run there, they just got automatically teleported into it through the dungeon-finder mechanic.

And it's especially crap when it's a cross-server mechanic, allowing you to interact with people you will never see again. You can just imagine the type of etiquette involved between people who have no reputation at stake.

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Well I will agree with you about the port, that should not be implemented. As for a finder though I dont see it hurting much (aside from the time sinc to create it) Most people serious wouldn't use it (I know I would never attempt to PUG The Darkhold atm) and those that want to try more power to them.

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Originally Posted by mikefmc

Sorry i didnt buy this game to play wow. If thats what you want go back to it. thank you.

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Sorry, I didn't buy this game to play the same antiquated, time wasting mechanics that FFXI had. If that's what you want, go back to it. Or if not, then stop being a douche to other people who have different opinions than yours. Debate their points in a civilized manner instead of resorting to cheap cliche phrases we've all heard 1000 times already.

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Originally Posted by Exiledraven

Sorry, I didn't buy this game to play the same antiquated, time wasting mechanics that FFXI had. If that's what you want, go back to it. Or if not, then stop being a douche to other people who have different opinions than yours. Debate their points in a civilized manner instead of resorting to cheap cliched phrases we've all heard 1000 times already.

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There's a difference between being antiquated and being traditional.

What you are wanting is not the opposite of antiquated (anti-antiquated? ... quated?). What you are asking for is mere convenience.

But the drawback of convenience is a loss of social interaction. There is something to be said for old-fashioned MMOs which required a social-component to get things done. Be it shouting in town for a P.U.G. or making enough friends so you always had people to group with.

So saying it is outdated to make people talk to eachother is not really a valid complaint.

It's not outdated, it's just different.

I don't think it's too much too expect of people in an MMO to interact with people. Sometime's that's part of the game.

Plus an automatic dungeon finder can server to undermine the expansiveness of the gameworld, too. So there's a lot of reasons not to implement it. Convenience isn't always of paramount importance. You have to consider what you lose, not just what you gain (a few more minutes of your day).

dungeon finder a good a modern system
shout for pt for hours in main city =? crappy
please SE dont listen FFXI players
this game need new people more people

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Originally Posted by odette

dungeon finder a good a modern system
shout for pt for hours in main city =? crappy
please SE dont listen FFXI players
this game need new people more people

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No it's not a good modern system.

It makes the world into an entrance lobby. This is an MMO. If you want an entrance lobby dont play an MMO.

And yes, please dont listen to FFXI players. Listen to me instead (who doesnt even play FFXI).

For the tl;dr: No to Dungeon Finder w/ Teleport. Targeted recruit group sure.

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Originally Posted by OJtheLIONKing

For instance, if you're still learning your class (which you will be doing the mid-level dungeon) and you don't do well the first time, you'll get blacklisted by them even after you learn how to play. This is part of why I liked the dungeon finder in WoW, I could take on a new role for my paladin (playing tank when I'm used to DPS, for instance) and not worry about how idiotic I look to people I'll need to deal with later. Then when you learn your class and the dungeons, you run with your guild.

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I agree with what you said about having priorities above the game. But this is exactly the problem with a LFD. Getting someone who half asses the content really screws with everyone else in the game. If you can't play your role don't join pugs, find others who are learning too and work together to get better. The way you put it is basically saying "I don't care about anyone but myself".

As far as I'm concerned, they can add a LFD feature but I'll boot anyone from the group that acts like a fool. Teleporting to the instance is asinine. WoW is the only game that does that as far as I know and we all know WoW is an utterly cheapened experience of an MMO. Now should it take an hour to get to an instance, no. 15 minutes sure, it will give you a chance to determine if someone is an asshat or not. SE will indeed stay away from instanced content as much as possible though so I don't think we will have to worry too much.

I'm not trying to be a dick here but if you want something you can log on, run an instance, get some drops and be done in an hour, go back to WoW. FFXIV or any FF game for that matter has a loyal following that is familiar with a truly challenging (and rewarding) scope of gameplay. SE is aiming to make it more casual but I can guarantee the true rewards will come to those with perseverance.

I work 50+, have many friends, have dates with bottles of tequila... frequently >.< and M-F quick and rewarding things would be great! But on the weekends I want some epic adventure not grinding an instance for the umpteenth time. If it becomes a game of simply running instances it is no better than the cookie cutter MMOs out there already. My 2c on the matter.

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Originally Posted by Synfrag

For the tl;dr: No to Dungeon Finder w/ Teleport. Targeted recruit group sure.



I agree with what you said about having priorities above the game. But this is exactly the problem with a LFD. Getting someone who half asses the content really screws with everyone else in the game. If you can't play your role don't join pugs, find others who are learning too and work together to get better. The way you put it is basically saying "I don't care about anyone but myself".

As far as I'm concerned, they can add a LFD feature but I'll boot anyone from the group that acts like a fool. Teleporting to the instance is asinine. WoW is the only game that does that as far as I know and we all know WoW is an utterly cheapened experience of an MMO. Now should it take an hour to get to an instance, no. 15 minutes sure, it will give you a chance to determine if someone is an asshat or not. SE will indeed stay away from instanced content as much as possible though so I don't think we will have to worry too much.

I'm not trying to be a dick here but if you want something you can log on, run an instance, get some drops and be done in an hour, go back to WoW. FFXIV or any FF game for that matter has a loyal following that is familiar with a truly challenging (and rewarding) scope of gameplay. SE is aiming to make it more casual but I can guarantee the true rewards will come to those with perseverance.

I work 50+, have many friends, have dates with bottles of tequila... frequently >.< and M-F quick and rewarding things would be great! But on the weekends I want some epic adventure not grinding an instance for the umpteenth time. If it becomes a game of simply running instances it is no better than the cookie cutter MMOs out there already. My 2c on the matter.

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Even that's not the point. It doesn't matter about meeting dicks (because they will be fun on occasion), it's about ruining the fabric of an MMO as a massively player online game and converting it into just a multiplayer online game.

Even on Rift, which is a "mainstream" MMO, half the people complained about dungeon-finder, so it's not like everyone and their dog is in favour of this feature anyway.

This is another subject that falls under "IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, DON'T USE IT"

Standing around all day trying to form a group is not an essential part of the immersion of a MMO experience; it’s a by-product of the limitations of an online experience.

You should not be able to dictate how other people experience a MMO. With the existence of a dungeon finder system, both people who like the idea and who do not are able to play the way the want to. You will not HAVE to use the system just because it exists. You will not HAVE to deal with the people who are "irreparably damaged" by the system just because it exist. But people like me who do not have time stand around all day trying to form a party would appreciate it.

This was the same kind of argument that we have about PVP.

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Originally Posted by Celtodeno

This is another subject that falls under "IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, DON'T USE IT"

Standing around all day trying to form a group is not an essential part of the immersion of a MMO experience; it’s a by-product of the limitations of an online experience.

You should not be able to dictate how other people experience a MMO. With the existence of a dungeon finder system, both people who like the idea and who do not are able to play the way the want to. You will not HAVE to use the system just because it exists. You will not HAVE to deal with the people who are "irreparably damaged" by the system just because it exist. But people like me who do not have time stand around all day trying to form a party would appreciate it.

This was the same kind of argument that we have about PVP.

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I don't think it's that simple, because the very existence of the features dictates how content is developed.

For all the reasons giftforce said, I do not want a cross-server dungeon finder. D:

Same-server "party finder" only please. D: That makes us travel to our location.

I want to make friends on my server. I want to travel the world to get to my destination. I want it to feel like a world, not a lobby. I hate over-instanced games. Need more open-world.

I do want the dungeon finder because its pain to find groups to do content with. If you don't like it you don't have to use it. I used dungeon and raid finder in WoW and 95% of the time its a good experience. I like the fact it can draw people from any server to get group faster. It did not ruin WoW at all. If you haven't played WoW recently then you can't really comment on this.

I had some not so great experiences with groups on my own server. So the accountability thing people keep harping on is out the window people in 14 just don't care as much as like people in 11 did. A couple people will usually leave a Ifrit or Mog fight after 1 wipe in a pick up group in 14, someone always ninja logs or leaves without saying anything. This pisses me off the most, I never leave a group in a nerd rage like so many people do. I would stick it out till the boss is downed. While in 11 if you wiped on something you stayed there till it was dead and got whatever it was your doing done, the majority of the playerbase is like this.

I would say people rage at wiping in 14 much harder then they do in WoW. Getting replacements is much harder in 14 due to the fact nobody wants to use their anima to warp back to uldah to recruit then use their anima again to port whoever they got back, while in WoW there is warlock summons or have group will travel summons.

As it is now Uldah is like a lobby you recruit people for instanced fights and raids. So I would welcome dungeon finder because it makes everything more streamlined and much easier to get replacements once someone leaves.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

I want to see something added to help find a party for dungeons and stuff.

I do not want to see something that I click a button do some stuff solo in town, get warped to a instance... kill some things, get screwed over by a low life peice of crap out to just screw the group over.... get warped back to town then repeat.


Thing to help find partys of all kinds... yes please
Dungeon finder (as in what is in WoW and Rift)... keep it in the other mmos


Edit:
Crap... I just realized who made the original post... sigh oh well here is my point although I am sure this thread will end in a rage fest.

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Originally Posted by Shipp

LFD is only bad when it does the following.

Groups people cross-server which completely eliminates accountability.
Teleports people directly to the dungeon.

It's not fun shouting for a group or /lfg for hours. LFD is fine as long as it is server-restricted and doesn't teleport people directly to the dungeon. All it does is make the grouping automated so those of us who don't want to spend hours looking for a group don't have to. You're still more than welcome to group the old fashioned way, nobody is stopping you.

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I liked both posts. This is exactly how I feel.

To me, the idea of being grouped and auto-ported for a dungeon run makes the world seem fake and dead. ESPECIALLY the way it is in WoW (don't get me wrong, I think WoW has many merits, this is just not one of them), where there is no tie-in whatsoever to the lore of the world. The LFD feature is just this weird omniscient menu "outside" of the game, if that makes sense to anyone.

You dont like it? dont use it.

If they want to implement this, give the option to use the stamina bar again :x

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Originally Posted by giftforce

So I think it's time we tried to 'nip this problem in this bud' before it gets out of hand. Automatic dungeon finders are terrible systems. And yet it's something Yoshi mentioned he might implement sometime in the future. And you know Yoshi, when he gets a bad idea in his head, he usually just goes and implements it without warning anyone (e.g., mob size increase, autoattack, removal of mob behaviour, aggro icon, etc.).

So let's make sure he knows it's a bad idea this time before it's too late.

An automatic dungeon finder is at odds with the philosophy of a massively multiplayer game. It makes it so that all players essentially end up doing is queueing in town for a dungeon. It turns the whole gameworld into an entrance lobby for the real content (dungeons/raids), and we shouldn't allow that.

Plus I'm not really a fan of being teleported between content that has nothing really to do with eachother.

I'm sure there are people in Rift and WoW who don't even know where the dungeons are because they never had to explore or run there, they just got automatically teleported into it through the dungeon-finder mechanic.

And it's especially crap when it's a cross-server mechanic, allowing you to interact with people you will never see again. You can just imagine the type of etiquette involved between people who have no reputation at stake.

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When did he say he "may"? i Thought it was a fact. Dungeon finders are great, you obviously haven't used this feature yet. The work to implement it is already under way or even done by now and it's not by making a thousand threads on the same subject that they will change their mind. The only time S-E care about our opinion is when they do polls, period. If they were to listen to everyone out here, they would spend their time removing and adding features left and right.

Don't be afraid of change, it's a good thing.

wow people are really grasping at straws when they necro an old thread made by gifthorse of all people

3 more months and this thread will be 1 year old.

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

Don't be afraid of change, it's a good thing.

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lol ok Mr. Obama :/

Hello everyone,

We're going to close this thread as there are currently multiple threads on the same topic. If you wish to continue your discussion, please refer to one of the more recent threads.

Thank you for your understanding.

-SQUARE ENIX MODERATOR