Mythos Farming Are Toxic

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Originally Posted by Merle

I know it's been said like 500 times, but... couldn't use Party Finder to set up your own parties? i see a lot of PF telling "full run" on them, so it shouldn't be an issue.

Yes, sucks if you find this kind of idiots on Duty Roulette, but... "wasting the soldiery bonus"? you don't waste it until you complete the dungeon. If you don't complete it the bonus doesn't dissapear.

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Expert Duty roulette gives 25 more SOL. you save 3 runs to cap SOL. and after this, people only rush for the myth.

If you meet me (Tank) rest assured I always complete all my runs. SE needs to check on this, and stop these speed runs, like I proposed to get the tomes at the end of the dungeon. If you go in, you know what to expect, newbs with low gear, or vets alike.

sigh..

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Originally Posted by Macka

As a healer I get in progress a lot and guess where the party be when I join. 2/3 progress so it happens for whatever reason. So it doesn't happen to excuse is lame and played out.

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Prove it, You can't because it doesn't happen.
Over exaggerating minor issues to make a point valid is played out.
The op doesn't have a wanted job for SR farming and is using this played out excuse to try and get SE to change it.

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Originally Posted by Zagam

Happens to OP once, he rages and posts saying its daily.

It simply isn't an issue, I've never had it happen once since 2.2 and I get brayflox 4-5 times easy a week, not to mention I seek in progress which has not once popped up.
Stop exaggerating a non existent problem.

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Not bec it never happened to YOU, that it doesn't happen at all. I MT, and the healer got away after second boss. Reality check.

As soon as SOL resets, some who have more time than others - complete them in one shot, then the next day, they are on MYTH runs.

While I am trying to get my 3rd animus book myself, It kills the fun. SE and DEVs need to correct this.

OP only has DRG, SR or not, he should be entitled to get the last boss down, like any other job.
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Games these days: DF - Sweet i'll get 25 Tomes as bonus -> Brayflox HM o.O

Game start - take SS of the party to have all names. Make macro: "heya guys! Nice to meet you! I'm here for the full run: because of bad apples, I need to check if you are going full or if I will have to report you."

*Don't move until I get all answers. Good! Let's have fun! ^^

**We want a SR: ARRRGGGHHH! (Flip Table)

Does it REALLY have to come down to this?

Give a 50-100 Myth reward at the end of the dungeon for having killed all 3 bosses* in addition to the Soldiery reward. Problem solved.

*You join in progress you receive no bonus.

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Originally Posted by Grizzlebeard

Give a 50-100 Myth reward at the end of the dungeon for having killed all 3 bosses* in addition to the Soldiery reward. Problem solved.

*You join in progress you receive no bonus.

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First part is good - second part: if someone DCed and never logs back in, you are done for. *Almost got a solution here, let's make it so SE will read us.. *prays

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Originally Posted by KingOfAbyss

First part is good - second part: if someone DCed and never logs back in, you are done for. *Almost got a solution here, let's make it so SE will read us.. *prays

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I agree that if you disconnect you're going to be hurt but the other option of all the rewards being placed on the final boss is going to sting even more in the event of a dc. For most people they're a rare occurrence and when they happen, yeah, it'll suck but it can only be better than all these failed runs where you're sat watching the timer count down hoping a tank or healer is going to appear.

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Originally Posted by Zagam

Prove it, You can't because it doesn't happen.
Over exaggerating minor issues to make a point valid is played out.
The op doesn't have a wanted job for SR farming and is using this played out excuse to try and get SE to change it.

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It's happened to me at least 4 or 5 times since the dungeon was released, in CT it used to be routine for some people. It's great for you that this hasn't happened to you yet but just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

I had a tank do this last night but fortunately his replacement showed up quickly, it's a very selfish thing to do but after watching people defend progress fishing it doesn't surprise me one bit to hear people trying to defend this kind of nonsense. With the group we had it would have taken 12-13 minutes to clear the full dungeon, we hit the last boss in just over 10 minutes even after waiting for the replacement. Anyone who doesn't want to take that much time to finish the duty they signed up for is being an ass, simple.

SE caused this problem by not including any Myth at the end. If a tank is capped and about to log for the night, he can jump into a Brayflox HM DF group instantly, get an easy 50 myth within 7-10 minutes, drop and then log out. All SE has to do is add a 25 Myth bonus to the last boss and the problem would be solved.

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Originally Posted by Zagam

Prove it, You can't because it doesn't happen.
Over exaggerating minor issues to make a point valid is played out.
The op doesn't have a wanted job for SR farming and is using this played out excuse to try and get SE to change it.

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Ah the old "prove it" cause I have nothing argument. You say it never happened to you since 2.2 in your first post, correct? Prove it!!!! You cannot prove your original premise in the first place so don't throw that expectation out to someone else when you cannot fulfill it yourself. So stupid and absolutely childish to even use that argument. Reminds me of my 5 and 3 year old nieces arguing.

As a tank I always stay until the end of the run and never seen this personally happen. However I do have friends that have, and have asked me to que so they can complete it (and when I do join them they are at 2/3). Just because you don't see it doesn't mean its not there. And yes the do need to do something to fix the situation.

Have each of the 3 bosses give 15 myth and 15 soldiery... +5 myth at the end.

Problem solved. It's not that freakin hard. I don't know how these things aren't noticed by SE...

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Originally Posted by PROBOUND

Why would you report them? Is leaving a duty (With penalty) against the terms of service?

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The problem is some people do not even leave. I can deal with people leaving and taking the lockout, but i had a party where tank demanded to be kicked after second boss and wouldn't leave. That guy I reported.

I have a idea, instead of bosses drop tome, why not have final boss drop tomes ONLY?

Spam the in game suggestion section. Tell SE to make the last boss also give myth. If not always, at least after soldiery has been capped for the week. People will still be unpleasant, but they'll be finishing the run.

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Originally Posted by Zendy

Have each of the 3 bosses give 15 myth and 15 soldiery... +5 myth at the end.

Problem solved. It's not that freakin hard. I don't know how these things aren't noticed by SE...

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Nope. They purposely didn't give any boss except the last soldiery (just like myth in the last patches). What you're trying to do is make the problem worse. What they should do is remove myth from the first boss and add that reward to the last. Then problem will be completely solved.

Simply making the last boss drop the full reward in myth and soldiery would solve the problem. People just being cool would solve the problem too. Of course the problem could have been avoided altogether if SE could have come up with a more creative way to upgrade your relic than just an incessant grind for myth.

Use party finder. It will solve all your problems. You can get better quality players via a set item level which will make the 25 extra soldiery totally moot because you can do faster runs anyways.

Apparently people don't remember the "member has withdrawn" spam that used to happen in CT DF.

Adding all bonuses to the end will only bring this problem back.

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Originally Posted by AzakaTonnerre

Ah the old "prove it" cause I have nothing argument. You say it never happened to you since 2.2 in your first post, correct? Prove it!!!! You cannot prove your original premise in the first place so don't throw that expectation out to someone else when you cannot fulfill it yourself. So stupid and absolutely childish to even use that argument. Reminds me of my 5 and 3 year old nieces arguing.

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How exactly am I going to prove something that DOESN'T happen? logic where? The onus is on the people making grandiose claims to prove or back up those claims. I honestly WISH is happened as much as these negative nancies make it out to be, I queue every day in progress hoping to find these mystical runs everyone speaks of for super fast tomes but they are more rare than atma.

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Originally Posted by Cid_Grim

Apparently people don't remember the "member has withdrawn" spam that used to happen in CT DF.

Adding all bonuses to the end will only bring this problem back.

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Except they did somewhat fix that by removing the In Progress part of the prompt when it popped up. They could do it for all Roulettes as well.

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Originally Posted by Akujin

Except they did somewhat fix that by removing the In Progress part of the prompt when it popped up. They could do it for all Roulettes as well.

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That didn't fix it at all. People still withdrew if they were placed in a fresh game.

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Originally Posted by Grizzlebeard

Give a Myth reward at the end of the dungeon

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Its a 2 part problem. People complained about the "member has withdrawn" spam that Tanks would do continuously join and exit the que until they find an "In Progress" room.

So SE eleviated this problem by spreading out the rewards throughout the dungeon in order to discourage these tanks from doing so.

If they where to put all of the Myth/Soldiery tomes at the end of the Dungeon this will cause even more issues of Tanks not queuing up. Which is imo a bigger problem alltogether which SE have acknowledged. The demand for tanks is very high and i think they made the right decision in spreading out the tomes to avoid this.

So its a pick your poison situation in essence. I think SE would prefer to encourage more tanks to run dungeons rather than punish them for running in the first place (but exiting with penalty).

Until they figure out a better way to avoid these issues i think its "working as intended".

According to this forum, everything is "toxic".

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Originally Posted by Cid_Grim

Apparently people don't remember the "member has withdrawn" spam that used to happen in CT DF.

Adding all bonuses to the end will only bring this problem back.

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My point exactly! ^^

Deal with a few occasional AssTanks but have Fast que times vs. 45min DPS/Healer Ques (with the same risk to find an AssTank)

Unless they simultaneously bring in the ability to queue for in progress only.

Also what happened to the "Duty finder is not your personal myth farming" yada yada thread. This topic was discussed at extreme length already in there.

For some reason all the people who are on the Primal data center never have this problem. I don't think it's a coincidence.

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Originally Posted by PROBOUND

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And this issue can easily be fixed by limiting the amount of withdrawals u can do in a certain time frame or simply not reveal whatever the dungeon your about to join has started or not.

As other people have said, the easiest solution, and probably the one that SE will implement, would be to add myth to the final bosses.

Take Brayflox for example. First boss drops 20, 2nd boss drops 30, last boss drops 50 + 45 soldiery.
So you can do the first 2 bosses in ~8 minutes to get 50 then drop. Or you can stay for another 5 minutes to finish up the dungeon for another 50... 100 myth / 13 min > 50 myth / 8 min, so a "smart" person would stay.

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Originally Posted by Kenji1134

As other people have said, the easiest solution, and probably the one that SE will implement, would be to add myth to the final bosses.

Take Brayflox for example. First boss drops 20, 2nd boss drops 30, last boss drops 50 + 45 soldiery.
So you can do the first 2 bosses in ~8 minutes to get 50 then drop. Or you can stay for another 5 minutes to finish up the dungeon for another 50... 100 myth / 13 min > 50 myth / 8 min, so a "smart" person would stay.

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.......and ultimately doom HM Halatali and Ampador City in to oblivion unless they too are modififed in some form. After all, a "smart" person wouldn't touch those dungeons otherwise...especially if already capped for soldiery tomes.

Ya Mythicrose, I always wondered why they didn't scale the reward of tomes based on the overall difficulty of the dungeon. They could even release the dungeons and check to see how long players are taking to defeat each one, and scale the reward accordingly. Making one dungeon the fastest(by far) pigeon holes everyone into doing only that one, and it gets very boring. If it was relatively even across the board for all the new dungeons it would be a little less of a pain. I posted this in a old thread about this very subject, but they should have a system that scales reward on every run. Depending on the time it takes, effort given, a appropriate reward should be given.

Another idea make the final boss's drop a addition chest that contains tomes, when you clear all the mobs. Also a chest if you found and opened every chest, maybe a chest for beating it in a certain time frame. This mechanic was in 1.0 and was actually fairly rewarding. Each chest could vary on the reward, throwing tomes in one chest was just a idea from awhile back. Reward people for not skipping every damn thing.

What makes me sad, is I thought we were past this Huge need to grind for tomes. They seemed to resolve this problem pretty well, by introducing duty roulette. You could get a decent helping of tomes from doing all your roulette's, and most people didn't feel like they have to grind their faces off in WP anymore. Then when 2.2 came, they nerfed the reward all to hell. I know they are trying to preserve content in some fashion, but ya.. They need to restore the original rewards for roulette. Maybe not as high as philo reward was, but maybe half would be modest. That way people actually use roulette again. Right now not many people bother with roulette, because it is FAR more efficient to grind your face off in Brayflox HM. Esp. when you consider you will have to deal with new players, and could potentially be trying to complete your roulette in the time it takes to do brayflox 5 times. (200 myth 180 soldiery)

Most of the issues people have with leaving, and angry players, weren't that prevalent when reward/roulette was nice. It was around, but it wasn't nearly as bad. Right now its as bad as it was at launch. Join AK/WP in AF?? people would auto leave or get very upset at you about your gear, and why you were even there.

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Originally Posted by Pantz

Report them. Let them waste even more time while banned.

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They do not ban people for leaving a DF run even if you report them, leaving a DF run is not against the ToS.

How about this once you hit commence you have to complete the dungeon. You dc? when you log back in you are in a new instance of the same dungeon. HAHA. you will have to wait in the queue for 3 other players. Same thing if you get kicked or loose your party for any reason. You can never leave unless you finish it. Oh and you can't double dip the bosses for myth. You only get 1 myth drop per boss per dungeon finder join.

LOL at the people who think reporting someone for leaving is actual going to do something. If someone wants to leave after the 2nd boss then they have the right. No where does it say that any player cannot leave at any time.

That may be so, Arkista, but that clearly is not what SE intended, and they do appear to have the intent to resolve the situation.
It's not illegal in the real world to be a d-bag, but everyone has a right to be "that guy". And sense its usually people from all separate servers, you don't have to really worry about a reputation.

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Originally Posted by Akujin

See, there's a problem here, as I sat pondering it.

If they made a sort of penalty, in which if you depart a dungeon after a period of time, after joining in Roulette, that your bonus for the day is considered spent. Then they would have to make it so that it did not affect players who were unfortunately disconnected due to a server or client side error, such as a power failure, or 90k. The only way it would be valid is if it was an intentional abandonment of the run. However, this would lead to some players simply shutting down the client completely, restarting it and circumventing that.

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You cannot change someones behavior by threatening to take something away from them that they did not care about in the first place. That is like telling a child "If you keep acting up, I'm going to take away your vegetables". Those leaving instances clearly don't care about the roulette bonus anyway.

How do people max their soldiery so fast? How much time does that take? I never ever even maxed it once, there is just too much else to do. So how do they do that and then still have time to try to mess up other peoples Brayflox hm runs?

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Originally Posted by Arkista

LOL at the people who think reporting someone for leaving is actual going to do something. If someone wants to leave after the 2nd boss then they have the right. No where does it say that any player cannot leave at any time.

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It's abuse of a system, abandoning/leaving a Duty is only meant if it's for an emergency. If one leaves just because they got what they wanted the mythology and leave the other 3 hanging then that's an abuse of the system and can be reported because said system put in place is being used for something in which it was not intended for.

The same reason they got rid of showing progress for CT runs was because "in progress" was designed to help out groups in which players had to leave not to allow other players an easier means of obtaining the loot they want by bypassing certain bosses.

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Originally Posted by Foo01

How do people max their soldiery so fast? How much time does that take? I never ever even maxed it once, there is just too much else to do. So how do they do that and then still have time to try to mess up other peoples Brayflox hm runs?

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Only takes 10 runs of the "expert" level dungeons, really not hard to cap at all.

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Originally Posted by Airget

It's abuse of a system, abandoning/leaving a Duty is only meant if it's for an emergency. If one leaves just because they got what they wanted the mythology and leave the other 3 hanging then that's an abuse of the system and can be reported because said system put in place is being used for something in which it was not intended for.

The same reason they got rid of showing progress for CT runs was because "in progress" was designed to help out groups in which players had to leave not to allow other players an easier means of obtaining the loot they want by bypassing certain bosses.

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Leaving a run doesn't break any rules even if you report it nothing will happen the the person. The 30 min lockout is the punishment for leaving a run not a ban.

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Originally Posted by Muzy

Only takes 10 runs of the "expert" level dungeons, really not hard to cap at all.

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10 runs of those? How do you get 10 runs that quick? That is like a least 10 hours of dungeon time isn't it? An then you have 30 to 60 minutes of waiting time so like 20 hours effectively. I can't barely squeeze in the beast daily and 1 low level DR a day. I really don't know how these people can max out so fast.

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Originally Posted by Foo01

10 runs of those? How do you get 10 runs that quick? That is like a least 10 hours of dungeon time isn't it? An then you have 30 to 60 minutes of waiting time so like 20 hours effectively. I can't barely squeeze in the beast daily and 1 low level DR a day. I really don't know how these people can max out so fast.

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If they are a dps class, they are likely running the dungeons with the FC/LS in order to queue them up instantly as opposed to waiting in a duty finder queue. I'm brand new to doing HMs but Brayflox only takes about 15-20 minutes and the other two a few minutes longer than that, so 3 friends and I can knock out 4-5 dungeons in a 2 hour sprint. Not so hard considering thats one night.