Best Gear in Coil needs to end

I really think sands of time should be purchased with tomes. Need weathered armor plus sands of time to upgrade armor.

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Originally Posted by sylent09

I really think sands of time should be purchased with tomes. Need weathered armor plus sands of time to upgrade armor.

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I'm willing to bet they probably will be at some point, but much later down the road. The way loot (sands) is itemized for groups of 8 right now, it's clear devs intend for coil2 to last a long time. A full clear group gets 2 per week, and if we assume everyone has... 4 items to upgrade, that's 4 months of full clears. -edit- 4 may be a bit much, let's say 2, be conservative, 2 would be 2 months. Not everyone is a scholar that needs 4+ sands for BiS :(

But right now, only groups with the required damage on The Avatar are even getting the one sands.

So yeah, I would assume 3-6 months from now an update would make them obtainable by some other means. It only makes sense to me considering AF+1 and Allagan were of the same quality.

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

Yoshi-P himself said their DPS output was amazing. Sorry, but there is not much skill just to BURN with maxed DPS anything that crosses the path...
Sure its not easy to max DPS but currently thats the only thing that counts, expect avoiding with learning the patterns, there isnt much skill involved...
As long as this game relys solely on a DPS race it will have problems with progression...

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The reason DPS checks/enrages exist is to avoid groups trivialising content by stacking healers (as well as to provide a challenge for the DPS - healers have to ensure nobody dies, tanks have to not die while carrying out positioning and tank swapping etc, and dps have to ensure stuff dies quickly enough).

Imagine if no boss in this game punished you for taking a long time. You could feasibly just stack 4+ healers and slowly break down the content.

So, why do you need 110-115 gear again if you are not raiding? In patch 2.0, a big complaint was that there was not as much incentive to raid because you could just buy all the gear. Even SE agreed this was not the best approach and increased the Allagan weapons to ilvl95. I am not opposed to multiple content to get gear, but raiding has to be the go to place to get the ultimate gear. Not exactly balanced that someone works their ass off in raids just to see some other guy who has the same, possibly better gear just from spamming easier content.

SE definitely does more than the average MMO on giving you a variety of ways to give you an edge in raids. You have primals, relic quest, soldiery gear, and so on. Not to mention you have the new floor of Crystal Tower in 2.3. This is how it should be set up. If there is no overall end game goal, that certain special set to get, then incentive to do end game drops dramatically.

Yes, large FC oriented content is something to be desired outside of CT runs. One thing I believe should of been done is make 16 or 24-man versions of Coils. Right now, FC's are heavily segregated in their own groups that are held together by food buffs. Hopefully SE is considering content like that in the upcoming expansion.

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Not everyone is a scholar that needs 4+ sands for BiS

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Oils. And I think Scholar needs 7 oils. Summoner 5. So I need 12. And I haven't cleared T5 yet.

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

Yoshi-P himself said their DPS output was amazing. Sorry, but there is not much skill just to BURN with maxed DPS anything that crosses the path...
Sure its not easy to max DPS but currently thats the only thing that counts, expect avoiding with learning the patterns, there isnt much skill involved...
As long as this game relys solely on a DPS race it will have problems with progression...

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This is WHOLLY untrue. While T8 is a DPS race, T9 is a TOTAL tank/healer check. Auto attacks hitting anywhere from 3k-7k. SURE IS A DPS CHECK. Lolno. T6 is a maneuverability check with a slight DPS check, and I say slight because it's really not hard at all to get the DPS needed to clear it. T7 is the same way. Both T6 and T7 are skill checks before they're DPS gear checks. T8 is a HUGE DPS AND skill check. I'll say the mechanics in T8 albeit simpler in nature, are much harder to master and coordinate, especially when you're racing the clock.

The game isn't even an year in, no expansions out yet. Take it easy guy. I'm sure a new activity will be planned for you to burn through in 2.3 and plenty of new stuff with the first expansion.

I'm confused you want the best gear and feel you should be entitled to the same that people that spend months farming a raid to get?
I'm not a hardcore raider by any means, hell I still haven't finished the two new EX modes, but neither do I feel entitled to having the best gear in game.
The best gear should always go to the hardest content.

I do agree SE needs to stop the pure linear progression model. It is probally the worst part of WoW that everyone is adopting. It is the main reason for lack of content and quick content negation in most mmos.

Coil or the hardest content should obviously drop BIS gear... but it should not be 100% of the BIS gear.

There needs to be a reason to do other content in this game. Half the people I meet do not do moogle EX because the reward is not worth the effort atm, fight is harder then Levi EX and it drops gear that is negated by doing 8 Blayflox speed runs.

There should be something BIS from all endgame content at any 1 time, that way there is a reason to keep doing it besides getting an achievement.

OP is completely right. There's no reason that we shouldn't have another raid with equivalent difficulty to Coil that provides gear of the same level reward at this point. This isn't about "Boo hoo give me easier gear". It's about "Wow Coil is the only thing to do until the next Coil comes out because no other content is worth doing".

I know people hate FF XI on this forum but FF XI had tons of horizontally placed content in the end-game that gave players some variety in terms of what they wanted to do that day/week.

4 Man Dungeons - Give drops that would've been useful a full patch or two ago and even then they add chaffe in the form of the crafting drops so that you can't get them

CT - Is a joke and is balanced in such a way that it always will be because SE is afraid of making 24 man groups have to coordinate.

Coil - BiS progression, whether you want soldiery upgrades or Coil loot this is your only option

Levi and Moggle EX - Most people don't care about Moggle EX because it's a strictly inferior drop to Soldiery/Coil loot and will be outclassed. Levi I'll give you but that's ONE fight that people seem to have interest in.

Other Content - What is there really. Beastmen dailies for vanity minions/mounts...? Atma/Animus farming because that's so fun. No seriously, what else is there. Next to nothing, that's what.

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Originally Posted by Prototype909

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Ya having more than 1 endgame dungeon for top tier loot will be nice.

As for Coil it appears Coil will be ending at Third Coil of Bahamut and the Coil Storyline will end there as well. After that a New Endgame Dungeon will replace Coil but what it is we will have to wait after 2.4 since that is when Coil 3 is released.

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Originally Posted by Prototype909

OP is completely right. There's no reason that we shouldn't have another raid with equivalent difficulty to Coil that provides gear of the same level reward at this point. This isn't about "Boo hoo give me easier gear". It's about "Wow Coil is the only thing to do until the next Coil comes out because no other content is worth doing".

I know people hate FF XI on this forum but FF XI had tons of horizontally placed content in the end-game that gave players some variety in terms of what they wanted to do that day/week.

CT - Is a joke and is balanced in such a way that it always will be because SE is afraid of making 24 man groups have to coordinate.

Coil - BiS progression, whether you want soldiery upgrades or Coil loot this is your only option

Levi and Moggle EX - Most people don't care about Moggle EX because it's a strictly inferior drop to Soldiery/Coil loot and will be outclassed. Levi I'll give you but that's ONE fight that people seem to have interest in.

Other Content - What is there really. Beastmen dailies for vanity minions/mounts...? Atma/Animus farming because that's so fun. No seriously, what else is there. Next to nothing, that's what.

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So you are saying that SE should pack 12 years worth of content in a game that isn't a year old yet? FFXIV has added a ton more things to do than FFXI did its first two years and it isn't even a year old yet. They offer various ways to get gear also, rather you like the content or not. They do a good job on balance between vertical and horizontal. Can it be improved? Yes, anything can. Do people want to spam the same content for over 7 years? Likely not.

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Originally Posted by SchalaZeal

Oils. And I think Scholar needs 7 oils. Summoner 5. So I need 12. And I haven't cleared T5 yet.

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All the high allagan accessories are crit, and I'm pretty certain you need sands to upgrade weathered armors, of which daystar has all the crit.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

So you are saying that SE should pack 12 years worth of content in a game that isn't a year old yet? FFXIV has added a ton more things to do than FFXI did its first two years and it isn't even a year old yet. They offer various ways to get gear also, rather you like the content or not. They do a good job on balance between vertical and horizontal. Can it be improved? Yes, anything can. Do people want to spam the same content for over 7 years? Likely not.

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People have a strange expectancy for new MMOs these days.

I often find the expectancy for new MMOs to be having enough content as a old MMO that has been out much longer as the most common expectancy.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

So you are saying that SE should pack 12 years worth of content in a game that isn't a year old yet? FFXIV has added a ton more things to do than FFXI did its first two years and it isn't even a year old yet. They offer various ways to get gear also, rather you like the content or not. They do a good job on balance between vertical and horizontal. Can it be improved? Yes, anything can. Do people want to spam the same content for over 7 years? Likely not.

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They can at least give the impression that this is what they're aiming for at some point. Right now there's no indication that they're ever going to break away from this steep vertical progression model that makes content obsolete before it's even released. I understand that this game hasn't been out for as long as FF XI but people become disillusioned about these things rather quickly if they don't see attempts at progress early on.

When does it stop being ok when there's only one end-game raid that drops worthwhile gear? 2.3? 2.4? 3.0? There has to be a point where the lack of content becomes something to hold them accountable towards.

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Originally Posted by Massterchef

I don't think you've taken a step into t6-9.

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Yea, i am just some stupid kid who knows nothing... *sarcasm*
Adds are just there to cheer you, why bothering to hit them anyway :o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb3MAb1wg5A

Well ppl cpuld always try pvp right? :0
I mean the qeues have gotten better for now so why not rank up a few times?
Frontlines is coming up soon so it can't hurt to see how you'll do in a pvp match atm.
I see some ppl running around with the hellwolf i100 ring so i think that's something to work towards to if you can't get your coil ring cuz....
There's no other i100 ring out there to farm. No garuda ex this time lol.

i agree with taei, not only because hes my fc master and im trying to get all the gil on our company chest for supporting him in the forums but also because i would like to see more diverse horizontal content with different gear to choose from and content to branch of .
you have to remember most ppl on legacy servers have all jobs at 50. so coil is mostly the only thing they have to do.

Back in 1.0 primals where horizontal content and not vertical, so you had a variaty of weapons to choose from based on the stats you liked, not the ilevel. ifrit garuda and moogle were all challenging and rewarding as end game.

you had many sets of gear since crafting was relevant and could compete with dropped gear so you had so much choice to mix and match gear it was amazing.

i think this is what hes trying to say, we need more content with more gear to choose from horizontally.

give us stuff like Assault , besieged and einherjar.

bring back hamlet defense and stuff like that.

not just log in, coil...log out... login coil, logout... oh i have to cap sol tomes... bray bray bray bray. logout.

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Originally Posted by Prototype909

They can at least give the impression that this is what they're aiming for at some point. Right now there's no indication that they're ever going to break away from this steep vertical progression model that makes content obsolete before it's even released. I understand that this game hasn't been out for as long as FF XI but people become disillusioned about these things rather quickly if they don't see attempts at progress early on.

When does it stop being ok when there's only one end-game raid that drops worthwhile gear? 2.3? 2.4? 3.0? There has to be a point where the lack of content becomes something to hold them accountable towards.

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They would only break from it if it wasn't working. As you can see, it is working. They might find ways to play around with the formula, but I doubt it will lead to a dramatic overhaul that you think might happen. All content that drops ilvl95-100 is worthwhile most definitely, Coils is just the area for BiS. If SE were to manage two raids at once, not only would it be much harder to balance them both out, but take much more time to develop both simultaneously, meaning we wait longer for each patch.

I believe it is more of a psychological thing. Coils feels like one raid because of the area and how it is named, when it is actually going under a WoW formula for raiding. The difference is with WoW, you did go to a completely new area per major patch. Like with the WoTLK expansion, you went to Naxxramas > Trial of Champions > Ulduar > Ice Crown Citadel. Here it is just going to different spots of the same area. Granted it is just an opinion and how you decide to perceive it, but I do like feeling like I am go to a new area for raiding each time. I am okay with how it is now however, but maybe in an expansion we can go to different feeling areas per major patch, just to help make things feel fresh.

The problem with having the best equipments from different dungeon is that like Brayflox speedrun, people will only run the easiest one.
At least it would be the players fault though they would still complain about how the other dungeons are useless.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

They would only break from it if it wasn't working. As you can see, it is working. They might find ways to play around with the formula, but I doubt it will lead to a dramatic overhaul that you think might happen. All content that drops ilvl95-100 is worthwhile most definitely, Coils is just the area for BiS. If SE were to manage two raids at once, not only would it be much harder to balance them both out, but take much more time to develop both simultaneously, meaning we wait longer for each patch.

I believe it is more of a psychological thing. Coils feels like one raid because of the area and how it is named, when it is actually going under a WoW formula for raiding. The difference is with WoW, you did go to a completely new area per major patch. Like with the WoTLK expansion, you went to Naxxramas > Trial of Champions > Ulduar > Ice Crown Citadel. Here it is just going to different spots of the same area. Granted it is just an opinion and how you decide to perceive it, but I do like feeling like I am go to a new area for raiding each time. I am okay with how it is now however, but maybe in an expansion we can go to different feeling areas per major patch, just to help make things feel fresh.

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its not working ... you know the formula is starting to fail when the people that supported you trough hell and beyond in 1.0 are now starting to doubt this is the game they stayed for and support. yes they are getting more subs.. yay good for them.. but how long do does new subs last 3,4 months? then ESO pops up or wildstar or any other mmo and puff they are gone, and now i have started to see many legacy players just give up because of empty promises and SE greed.

1.0 pumped out more content in its last 3 months than ARR in 1 year.

there i said it.. deal with it

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Originally Posted by Yoohre_WildRiver

its not working ... you know the formula is starting to fail when the people that supported you trough hell and beyond in 1.0 are now starting to doubt this is the game they stayed for and support. yes they are getting more subs.. yay good for them.. but how long do does new subs last 3,4 months? then ESO pops up or wildstar or any other mmo and puff they are gone, and now i have started to see many legacy players just give up because of empty promises and SE greed.

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May I ask how it is not working? Because you don't like it?

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Originally Posted by Yoohre_WildRiver

1.0 pumped out more content in its last 3 months than ARR in 1 year.

there i said it.. deal with it

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Nothing was added in the last three months except some story line content to transition into 2.0. Do I need to list what 2.0 has provided since launch? I shouldn't have to, right?

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Originally Posted by Velhart

May I ask how it is not working? Because you don't like it?



Nothing was added in the last three months except some story line content to transition into 2.0. Do I need to list what 2.0 has provided since launch? I shouldn't have to, right?

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when did i say i didnt like it..????

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

Yea, i am just some stupid kid who knows nothing... *sarcasm*

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Surely your FC/static must have T6-9 on farm then since according to you, they're nothing but DPS races.

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Originally Posted by AckersFury

OP go get some sunlight or find a different game to play..this game isn't designed for the no lifers :p

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Sure it is... why else would anyone repeat the same instances over and over again to farm tokens? That is stupidly boring. Why would someone rehash low level fates over and over again? That is stupidly boring.

The end game is for no lifers... casual no lifers. In order to do the exact same scripted content 100 + times to farm tokens for fun- you would have to have a REALLY boring offline life.

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Originally Posted by Yoohre_WildRiver

when did i say i didnt like it..????

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Sure as hell not implying you do like it.

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Originally Posted by Yukiko

Yea, i am just some stupid kid who knows nothing... *sarcasm*
Adds are just there to cheer you, why bothering to hit them anyway :o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb3MAb1wg5A

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Adds =/= DPS burn. See Turn 7 as an example.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

Sure as hell not implying you do like it.

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well this was not my intention, what im trying to imply is, we need more choices.. what i dont like ir doing the same thing over and over and over and over...

someone should remix calvin harris eat sleep rave repeat

but

EAT SLEEP COIL REPEAT

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Originally Posted by Yoohre_WildRiver

well this was not my intention, what im trying to imply is, we need more choices.. what i dont like ir doing the same thing over and over and over and over...

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before on the FC schedule there would be moogle mondays, ifrit wenesdays garuda thursday .. hamlet fridays ... chocobo escort/spiritbonding sunday.. all endgame

now is just coil coil coil coil levi ex coil coil coil..... levi ex

this is what i mean.. no that coil is bad.. but it gets repetitive. having more horizontal content would give people a break to see and battle other content and not get tired of repeating.

Stop burning content and enjoy it?

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Originally Posted by Arkghyom

Stop burning content and enjoy it?

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So what, just artificially extend the lifespan of content by not doing it? Yeah that makes a lot of sense. You don't even have to burn through content to reach the Log in, Coil, Soldiery, Log out routine.

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Originally Posted by Prototype909

So what, just artificially extend the lifespan of content by not doing it? Yeah that makes a lot of sense. You don't even have to burn through content to reach the Log in, Coil, Soldiery, Log out routine.

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Is that all you do? How about farming, spiritbonding, gathering, crafting, and housing?

how about either getting rid of the weekly lockout OR use a token system where you can work towards certain gear instead of having RNG droprates.

I have said this before and I will say it again, RNG on it's own is fine and so is a lockout.
However, having both at the same time is just so frustrating.

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Originally Posted by Prototype909

So what, just artificially extend the lifespan of content by not doing it? Yeah that makes a lot of sense. You don't even have to burn through content to reach the Log in, Coil, Soldiery, Log out routine.

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That really is your choice to not do the other content of the game.

No leave the best gear aka the raid gear, in coil. People who do not run coil, Do not need the gear. You can down t6-7 easily in i90 and god forbid weathered i100, and even turn 8 with mostly i90 some i100, all those pieces you get for drops, helps you down t9, and some day turn 10-14.........

My group like many many other groups are working on turn 9. So no, we are not bored out of our minds. Maybe BG is, with the 2 or 3 other groups in the world. But we are not. As for the groups choosing to not even bother with turn 9. That is there choice, but not an excuse that their boredom needs easier routes to obtain gear.

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Originally Posted by stephenjd3

No leave the best gear aka the raid gear, in coil. People who do not run coil, Do not need the gear. You can down t6-7 easily in i90 and god forbid weathered i100, and even turn 8 with mostly i90 some i100, all those pieces you get for drops, helps you down t9, and some day turn 10-14.........

My group like many many other groups are working on turn 9. So no, we are not bored out of our minds. Maybe BG is, with the 2 or 3 other groups in the world. But we are not. As for the groups choosing to not even bother with turn 9. That is there choice, but not an excuse that their boredom needs easier routes to obtain gear.

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OP isn't talking about easier routes to gear. It's about more equivalent routes, as in content with difficulty on par with Coil that isn't Coil. I swear people like you come into these threads and just copy paste whatever response you want without reading anything.

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Originally Posted by Yurihyuga

What the game desperately needs is more raid variety and fast to avoid needing lockouts to prevent people from progressing too fast.

End game in FFXI even with just sky hell had more than coil there was no lockouts could do sky everyday if you wanted and it never got old for a lot of people. If you weren't after gear money drops were split.

Then you had Dynamis again if you weren't after gear currency was split after even break.

Then there was sea with an unbeatable last boss however do believe it was beaten eventually.

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

I do agree SE needs to stop the pure linear progression model. It is probally the worst part of WoW that everyone is adopting. It is the main reason for lack of content and quick content negation in most mmos.

Coil or the hardest content should obviously drop BIS gear... but it should not be 100% of the BIS gear.

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I totally agree, Yurihyuga, Xatsh.

There needs to be more variety and horizontal progression / rewards; things to keep players interested and doing meaningful stuff besides just 1 Dungeon (Coil).

Even in its most basic form, Final Fantasy XI had lots of things for End Gamers to do. Note, I'm *not* advocating bringing any of these things specifically into XIV, just pointing out some examples of events to do besides just 1 Dungeon in an MMO:

* There was Sky (Tu'Lia), with an interesting *System* and Loot Variety tied to it: From finding and defeating various Key Mobs (NMs) around that dungeon, to defeating 4 Special NMs (Byakko, Seiryuu, Genbu, Suzaku), getting 4 Key Items, and then continuing to fighting Kirin (Final Boss).

In addition, there was *variety* in the Loot for all of those NMs (not just the final boss). There were Rare Crafting Materials that allowed Crafters to help Adventurers to create great gear.

There were Abjurations (to help reverse Cursed Gear and get some great gear out of that), and then the actual fully completed Gear Drops (like Byakko's Haidate, etc.).

The dungeon was so interesting, I never got tired of it.

* Dynamis - Massive 64 player dungeons. Shadow Lord Boss. Unique Currency for Relic Quest. Side Paths with Alternate NMs / Bosses to fight to get your Attestations. Other Drops and Key Mobs to find and kill, besides Shadow Lord (Final Boss).

* Hunting Kings: Nidhogg, King Behemoth, Aspidochelone, etc.

* Individual Hunting for NMs spread around the world that can be soloed, for rare drops that were "BIS" for the longest time.

Again, I'm *NOT* asking for HNMs or NM pops (that encouraged botting), but the point is that there were so many things to do for End Gamers, and plenty of Horizontal Progression and more interesting stats than the Controlled Stats that Yoshi P has right now (where he's controlling the Max Main Stat with every patch).

Ultimately, with more variety, it makes Final Fantasy XIV a better game.

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Originally Posted by Taei

There needs to be more variation and choices. I know people that are done with their daily coil and finished animus and are now SO BORED that they are even doing another Atma quest.

There needs to be more options for gear with other content, it really cannot continue to be coil all the time...

Maybe even make it so that you can continue to upgrade the Levi Weapon up to 110/115 with more mirrors, idk. SOMETHING ELSE TO DO.

It's only been about a month and it's already starting to feel like the end of 2.1 with nothing to do except for coil.

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No offense but how much time did all that take? Seems wild that people go through this content like this like they're at 100% uptime on their client.