AOE stoneskin outside of combat

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Originally Posted by Mcshiggs

Old WoW raiding, I mean really old like Molten Core, you weren't in combat until you engaged an enemy or healed/buffed someone that was, so groups would just sit one healer out and never cast a spell so they could only raise people that died so the group wouldn't have to worry about battle rez's. I'm not saying there would be a way to drop combat so you could do this, but if there was, then people would find it.

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While I appreciate that you're concerned about abuse, there's no way to drop combat like that in dungeons. Bringing it up is kind of a moot point.

I do like the utility behind a short CD ability that turns the next spell cast AoE, though.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

While I appreciate that you're concerned about abuse, there's no way to drop combat like that in dungeons. Bringing it up is kind of a moot point.

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Isn't there a room in normal Hauke Manor that you can run in that drops threat from enemies, the one before you get to the first boss? That I am sure was unintended, but people used this method to drop combat to farm the varnish from the room at the end of the hall. That's just one spot, is it unthinkable that it couldn't happen again?

I support the AOE SS when out of combat! Lets see it SE!

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Originally Posted by Lee-Akira

They give you like what? 90 to 120 minutes on raids? If you're planning to use every second of that time, then there's something wrong with the party. Games don't need to be nerved more than it is, taking time to skin everyone is fine, takes literally 30 sec or less. Even less when you have two healers. Stop being lazy people.

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This guy honestly has no clue what he's talking about.

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Originally Posted by Mcshiggs

If they did this, then the next step would make adloquim aoe as long as you aren't in combat, so you can get the big shield on everyone.

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adloquium aoe is already a spell in the game... it's called succor.

Scale up the manacost with the party members while out of combat if you're so afraid of abuse

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Originally Posted by LexSunfire

adloquium aoe is already a spell in the game... it's called succor.

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Succor has half the healing potency, and shields don't double on crits. I feel sorry for the groups you heal for if you didn't know the difference.

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Originally Posted by Zhi

Scale up the manacost with the party members while out of combat if you're so afraid of abuse

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You would need to not only scale mana cost, but also cast time if it's going against abuse, so maybe if it's outside of combat, it could hit everyone, but take 8 times the mp and have 8 times the cast time and not be affected by swiftcast, that way lazy white mages still only have to push one button.

My answer is no. If you can't take the time to reput stoneskin on everybody, then that's a personal problem called laziness.

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Originally Posted by Mcshiggs

Succor has half the healing potency, and shields don't double on crits. I feel sorry for the groups you heal for if you didn't know the difference.

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Did I say they were the same potency? i'm just saying they both erect barriers. don't need to get all sarcastic and rude. you can put the claws away.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

My answer is no. If you can't take the time to reput stoneskin on everybody, then that's a personal problem called laziness.

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why does this always get equated to laziness? who likes standing there waiting for a healer to put SS on everyone? how is it lazy to not want to have to wait for it to be done?

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Originally Posted by Mcshiggs

You would need to not only scale mana cost, but also cast time if it's going against abuse, so maybe if it's outside of combat, it could hit everyone, but take 8 times the mp and have 8 times the cast time and not be affected by swiftcast, that way lazy white mages still only have to push one button.

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this would be defeat the purpose of the proposal. protect doesn't cost 8 times the mp or 8 times the cast time.

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Originally Posted by LexSunfire

Did I say they were the same potency? i'm just saying they both erect barriers. don't need to get all sarcastic and rude. you can put the claws away.



why does this always get equated to laziness? who likes standing there waiting for a healer to put SS on everyone? how is it lazy to not want to have to wait for it to be done?



this would be defeat the purpose of the proposal. protect doesn't cost 8 times the mp or 8 times the cast time.

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You didn't say they both erect barriers, you said that succor was aoe adloquium.

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Originally Posted by LexSunfire

adloquium aoe is already a spell in the game... it's called succor.

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In case you forgot what you posted.
As for protect, it is aoe even in combat, so your argument really doesn't make sense, people are talking about making a spell that is not aoe in combat but aoe out of combat.

I totally agree, spamming SS eight times after a wipe is really annoying.

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Originally Posted by Mcshiggs

You didn't say they both erect barriers, you said that succor was aoe adloquium.

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You can knock the condescending tone off. this is why I hate these forums. take everything out of context and try to prove "gotcha" moments. you posted a comment that the next step would be to make adloquium an aoe so everyone could have the barrier. I was merely saying that there is an aoe version of adolquium. the fact that the succor is a watered down aoe version of adolquium doesn't mean it's not an aoe version of adolquium. second, protect is an aoe spell even in combat. you are correct. all i'm saying is why not make SS like protect but only outside of combat? I don't understand why people are getting so upset and defensive about this proposition.

It's just unnecessary to wait for the cast timer for every stoneskin before pulling. So much so that for Coil progression we don't even use it anymore because if we did it would turn 45 minutes worth of attempts in to almost 2 hours. At least in 1.0 we had that spell (Can't Remember what it was called.) That turned every spell into an AOE, so that you could just get it out of the way.

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Originally Posted by LexSunfire

You can knock the condescending tone off. this is why I hate these forums. take everything out of context and try to prove "gotcha" moments. you posted a comment that the next step would be to make adloquium an aoe so everyone could have the barrier. I was merely saying that there is an aoe version of adolquium. the fact that the succor is a watered down aoe version of adolquium doesn't mean it's not an aoe version of adolquium. second, protect is an aoe spell even in combat. you are correct. all i'm saying is why not make SS like protect but only outside of combat? I don't understand why people are getting so upset and defensive about this proposition.

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You should read my post, I said adloquium would need to be aoe so everyone can have the big shield, I am supposed to be able to magically interpret your words but you can't follow simple context clues? Also if you read any of my posts, I said that making it aoe out of combat would cause people to try to find ways to take advantage of it. If you still feel like sticking with the succor is just as good as an aoe adloquium would be, would you be ok with your aoe stoneskin, but it has 25%-50% potency based on crit chance, of your normal stoneskin?

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Originally Posted by KyahAlmasy

It's just unnecessary to wait for the cast timer for every stoneskin before pulling. So much so that for Coil progression we don't even use it anymore because if we did it would turn 45 minutes worth of attempts in to almost 2 hours. At least in 1.0 we had that spell (Can't Remember what it was called.) That turned every spell into an AOE, so that you could just get it out of the way.

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I'm not for making Stoneskin being AoE normally through a trait, but a skill that turns a spell into an AoE? I can see that as acceptable, especially if said skill had a 2-3 minute cooldown. It would also open up some pretty interesting combinations for use. Here's hoping it gets added eventually and can be cross-classed.

But then again, that would make every spellslinging class way too powerful unless only ONE class could get it...but from what I've seen, most don't even need it. Btw, why are you ONLY waiting for the WHM to cast Stoneskin to begin with? SCH can use it, and PAL can use it. All of you put it on people. Yes, it's not going to be as powerful as if a WHM did it, but one hit is going to destroy the Stoneskin anyway in a boss fight, so what's the point?

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Originally Posted by Mcshiggs

You should read my post, I said adloquium would need to be aoe so everyone can have the big shield, I am supposed to be able to magically interpret your words but you can't follow simple context clues? Also if you read any of my posts, I said that making it aoe out of combat would cause people to try to find ways to take advantage of it. If you still feel like sticking with the succor is just as good as an aoe adloquium would be, would you be ok with your aoe stoneskin, but it has 25%-50% potency based on crit chance, of your normal stoneskin?

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i'm sorry that I didn't realize "big shield" meant the crit doubled shield. I thought "big shield" meant aoe shield for everyone. obviously i'm just too dumb to understand what you meant by "big shield." sure, if aoe stoneskin could be used in combat, it would makes sense that the potency would be watered down like succor. people will try to find ways to take advantage of stoneskin if used as aoe outside of combat? okay fine. I doubt that your conclusory statement could be true. but assuming that it could be taken advantage of, there are other ways to minimize that. anyways, I'm done talking to you about this. you know when you see topics about how the ffxiv community is toxic, people like you are why other people find the community toxic. you pull out the cat claws and have to prove you're right. you can't talk to people like a civilized human being, you have to try to rip their heads off. for that, you can get placed on my ignore list.

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Originally Posted by LexSunfire

Rabble rabble rabble

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Ok Bye bye.

bring back 1.0 Divine Veil

I support this idea. Should they come out with 10, 12, 14, or 16 man combat/instances/dungeons and you only have one WHM...to hell with buffs other than protect and use PLD and SCH stone skin instead. AoE outside of combat would be great.

Edit: Ignore my dumb, double post from my phone.....

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

I'm not for making Stoneskin being AoE normally through a trait, but a skill that turns a spell into an AoE? I can see that as acceptable, especially if said skill had a 2-3 minute cooldown. It would also open up some pretty interesting combinations for use. Here's hoping it gets added eventually and can be cross-classed.

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A good idea. Could make it something like, makes next spell hit the group at the cost of doubling the mana cost. A 2min CD would make it so that it was quick enough to use after a wipe and short enough that if one needed to they could blow it again mid fight, but the double mana cost would make them think twice.

As a whm that does end game progression where SS is nice to have on everyone before we start turn a turn in 2nd coil, sometimes we give up on it, cause it takes to long....a AOE SS allowed outside of combat only would be awesome

I support this idea. It's not a huge QoL upgrade but it's one nonetheless.

The paranoia of it being abused has some validly, but I'm pretty sure the only way you could abuse it now would be in an insignificant way. You can't drop out of combat in the middle of things like coil unless you die or DC. Even if people found a way to do it, spamming the skill would be a terrible idea if they made it cost 1 stoneskinx8; it'd be a HUGE mana drainer and you'd be better off spamming medica or medica 2 instead.

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Originally Posted by rhemi1

This would be a suggestion aimed mostly at raiding, specifically recovering after wipes. Casting Stoneskin once instead of 8 times on the party after a wipe would help speed up wipe recovery, and also help speed up pulls at the start of instances if a WHM is in the party.

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It would also save me the rage I feel as I buff the whole party while the other WHM stands there doing nothing.

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Originally Posted by Wolf_Gang

Divine Veil

A White mage skill that made your next spell an AOE.

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That would be awesome

Too bad they turned Sacred Prism into a PvP ability that doesn't even do the same thing, even further back the original 1.0 had an AoE spell toggle. Divine Veil in 1.X was a PLD skill that made the next Cure casted on them give Divine Regen to them and everyone near, though I didn't know it made spells AoE in XI so that would work too.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

My answer is no. If you can't take the time to reput stoneskin on everybody, then that's a personal problem called laziness.

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Probably against free food for the homeless too?
"If you can't take time to get a job and buy some food it's a personal problem called laziness"
Quick! Post other things this dudes against for trivial reasons!! Best one wins the internet!

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Originally Posted by waldo

Probably against free food for the homeless too?
"If you can't take time to get a job and buy some food it's a personal problem called laziness"
Quick! Post other things this dudes against for trivial reasons!! Best one wins the internet!

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I think we should change the commands to attack enemies to be textbased, like you write "Attack goblin" in the chat window. Just clicking one button or even using a hotkey is just laziness.

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Originally Posted by waldo

Probably against free food for the homeless too?
"If you can't take time to get a job and buy some food it's a personal problem called laziness"
Quick! Post other things this dudes against for trivial reasons!! Best one wins the internet!

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Why try and hijack a thread.




Thank for everyone that supported the idea. Hopefully SE will look into this as an option.

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Originally Posted by Mcshiggs

I said adloquium would need to be aoe so everyone can have the big shield

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Adloquium is a short-duration buff. Stoneskin is a long-duration buff. There's a huge difference between 30 seconds and 30 minutes.

/macroicon "Stoneskin"
/psort
/ac "Stoneskin" <p1> <wait.4>
/ac "Stoneskin" <p2> <wait.4>
...
/ac "Stoneskin" <p8>

problem solved, one button, all stoneskined and first to be done will be tanks and healers (who you want hit with it the most anyways) if your group realy needs less time then it takes to do this then you either do not need to be stoneskin every member or you need to take the 30sec to make sure you know why your wiping to improve for the next pull. if the time is that valuable and you need it on every player, just have the 2nd healer or a PLD do the DPS or some of the players and its down to 15sec..

to make stoneskin AOE out of combat wil incrase cast time by likely 1/2 the number of players in the party and MP by the number in the party and time spent will be about the same, and the number of buttons pressed is the same as the macro i posted.

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Originally Posted by CrystalRainbow

There is already a mechanic in game to tell if you are in combat or not.

It would be nice if Stoneskin could be AOE outside of combat.
Even if it was a late level trait you learned.

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Ya this is greatly needed because making the entire raid group wait to have stoneskin casted on them is dumb.

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Originally Posted by Inosaska

Ya this is greatly needed because making the entire raid group wait to have stoneskin casted on them is dumb.

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1, most times group waits for stoneskin it isn't even needed, by the time the fight gets serious enough that there is stress on healers, stoneskin is gone, just about every boss more mechanics are added as the fight gets further in, and thats when you wish it was on everyone when heals on the tanks get vital, but guess what, by then SS is gone on everyone else.

2, most whm do not use a macro to do the hole pt, and hate to press SS 8 times plus w/e number of buttons in targeting (varies between kb/m and controller) so they just act lazy hoping the group pulls because they also realize statement 1 or are just bad and SS wont help them anyways.

Didn't sacred prism in 1.0 allow us to turn a spell such as Stoneskin into an aoe move? I don't remember the name of it, but I do know we used to be able to do so.

Anywho, I'm up for any spell that would let us do this as long as it's before attacking any mob .

Yes please SE~ Stopped counting the times when I had raider fatigue after repeated wipes and I would be waiting for the raid to start and wonder why everyone is standing awkwardly to realize I've forgotten to SS, so queue the painful SSing, and the 80% chance that the next raid will go SS-less lol.

As I'm using my WHM more now, I thought I would bump this thread!

I still think this would be great!

I did it! That's right it was me..

You did it, probably should have told them to make it cross classable for SCHs though.

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Originally Posted by Lee-Akira

They give you like what? 90 to 120 minutes on raids? If you're planning to use every second of that time, then there's something wrong with the party. Games don't need to be nerved more than it is, taking time to skin everyone is fine, takes literally 30 sec or less. Even less when you have two healers. Stop being lazy people.

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A definition of haven raid enough to reach that point to understand the raider frustration.