This game lacks the experience, too casual?

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Originally Posted by Felis

People would still enter duty roulette to get the second best tome

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Incoming rage, but...

Put an item lvl cap on unlocking those tomes >.>

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Originally Posted by Clavaat

There's no such thing as a carry through T5.

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Except you know, those T5 pts people are selling now to carry you >.>

For me the gameworld being petty matters alot. I am a roleplayer foremost in MMORPGs so the world matters to me alot, something WoW failed with if you ask me. Boring world and boring characters. If I want challenging stuff I do not play a game where I have to rely on others or internet working.

I play this game to relax and have fun and to Roleplay. The raiding in this game is fun and somewhat challenging if you have gotten into it, something WoW have lost since BC. Nowadays pretty much every WoW raid can be made with 2/3rds of the party AFK. And there will be alot more different kind of content that I have ever seen WoW offering. SE is making alot for the RP community by allowing us to own houses and by putting in Mini games. I can see this game branching out during the comming year. If I was you I would put this game down now, and return when next expansion comes and then make my judgement :)

Go back to XI, from the sound of it it seems really good and up your sleeves :)

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Originally Posted by Sisqi

Anyway, if you love FFXI style grinding so much, why don't you make a party finder group for that? You could go find a camp and pull mobs for hours on end. Nothing's stopping you.

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same reason people dont do it in ffxi, ist not worth it compared to the alternatives, why should u want to spend ure time less efficient than u could? and even if u wanted to, finding others for it is just not realistic, i wonder why there are still a good amount of ffxi players tough, cant be because of glorious content or anything, probably stick to it because most mmorpgs on the market These days are... well no more words needed, i guess its ok for People with very limited time

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Originally Posted by Ceinwyn

I really don't want to talk bad about the game but it totally lacks the experience a mmorpg should have, it's nice to play a few months or weeks, depends on ure playstlye but ist too fast peaced for my taste!

The problem is, if u look close at this game, u'll soon realize, it's just a prettier WoW!
And why should anyone want to Play this instead of wow? which is actually better in terms of Content and other stuff like awesome PvP, something this game hasnt done that well so far.... dont get me wrong, WoW isnt even that good either but still better than this!

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Purely anecdotal, but there may be others like me. I play FFXIV because:

1) First and foremost i'm a Final Fantasy fan, this is my first MMO (although I tried WoW very briefly and couldn't get into it). Visuals, art style, soundtrack, story etc are all much more to my taste than other MMO's such as WoW.

2) WoW is old. I'm not saying that in a bad way, I just mean that coming in at this stage is both difficult and also kind of disheartening when you have missed years and years of content. You can play through that content now, sure, but it just isn't the same. Everything will be different than it originally was - nerfed to hell for the most part I would imagine - and you just aren't sharing the experiences with the community as a whole except for whatever expansions the game has left.

FFXIV's casual style is perfect for my life at the moment, and the fact that it's Final Fantasy just makes it all the better. WoW may well have lots and lots more content, but it's also an old game in decline whereas FFXIV is a new game with a bright future and lots to look forward too.

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Originally Posted by Obysuca

Roulette gives enough myth, combined with dailies and they could even just keep spamming CM and jump right into i90, skipping over CT and even most of Coil. With how old coil is now, they could technically skip right to t5, get lucky, beat it, be right up there in t6+ now. So yeah, they can skip right over it.

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Full i90 just from CM. That would take forever.
You might as well still have the cap.
Dude, what are the chances of that actually happening, though?
Really, most people that haven't beaten T5 are not going to jump in DF and get carried.
If they're getting carried, they are probably paying someone or getting carried by an FC.
Having i90 and an Echo bonus (though once the percentage ramps up, different story) isn't going to magically get you through things.
If your healer sucks, the tank is still going to die.
If you're going to run conflags into teammates, you're still not going to progress.
There are still mechanics that are going to kill you when you don't handle them properly.
Paying 7 other people that know what they're doing while you lie down dead is going to be easier than trying to do the turn, just because you have the gear, with anything less than people that know the content when you're running mechanics into them like a headless chicken.
Those people are going to be kicked because you're wasting their time.
Gear is not going to carry you through T5.
If someone is going to carry you, you would have been carried anyway.

Why are people still complaining about Titan?
People in i90?
EX aside, even HM.
Mechanics.
If that person died, the rest of the team can carry on without them so much easier when they're not running around sabotaging things.
Regardless of whether they have full i90 or whatever the minimum requirement is, if they were going to get carried, they'd get carried anyway.

So a brand new MMO MUST have nearly a decade's worth of content a launch? Got it.

By the by, MMOs have been about end game. From EverQuest back in 2000 to ESO right now.

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Originally Posted by i2agnarok

Why are people still complaining about Titan?

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"Lag" :P

/apparentlynot10char

The proper term to the progressive approach is "mainstream" not "casual".

From the many MMO's I've played they're many diverse takes in how to approach overall content. Yet the most simplistic approach, which is now mainstream in popular MMO's like WoW, is just to release harder end game raiding content with better gear. Yet it doesn't tackle what the game is lacking. In fact it tries to divert attention from what it lacks as they take their sweet time attending those aspects hoping no one would notice and point it out.

FFXIV and WoW are mid-pace they aren't slow but they aren't fast either. They give enough time for reactionary skills to take place even from people that don't have good reflexes. That's why you can call out over a VoIP, "it's time to move" and if did it right with that allotted time you don't cause a wipe or penalize the raid.

FFXI and Runescape are slow pace kinds of MMO's.
WoW and FFXIV are mid pace kinds of MMO's.

The major patches have focused mainly on end-game raiding content and I agree they don't focus nearly enough on the other aspects of the game but it ain't neglected. It's nice that we keep having main scenario story progression, beast tribe dailies, and Hildebrand quest lines. There was focus on rewarding crafters last major patch. There was a slight focus on gathering and giving this patch of crafters new recipes this patch.

Yet the long lasting progressive focus on casual is rarely there since it's hard to please casuals with how it is currently handled. People may argue about questlines, FATEs, and Dungeons, yet the rewards and satisfactions gets over shadowed by the kind of rewards offered by "raids" so it is hard to have that appeal. Casuals aren't as easy to please as the "hardcore" raider because of this method no. It's like expecting a kid to enjoy his free bite-size sneaker bar if another set of kids showed up with their king size sneaker bars just because they competed and took the school to regionals.

The simplest way here is open world content and open world dungeons that can be completed as an Alliance where the fights that are equally rewarding as doing "raids".

For arguments sake lets just say that where we unlock our primal fights that's where those Primals now roam as well and we can take them on as an Alliance where every participant has a chance to get the gear normally gotten through Duty Finder and can complete Primal Focus through this method as well.

Example
Titan Extreme now roams U'ghamoro mines
Ifrit Extreme now roams Zahar'ak
Garuda Extreme now roams Natalan
Leviathan Extreme now roams Saspa Spawning Grounds
Good King Moggle Mog XII and his Mogglesguards: The Bramble Patch?

Only downside is that they pop once every few hours and progressive gear gains are no where near as fast as raiding but the upside is that now there's no longer that discrimination of "we need good players" because it is offset by numbers. Kinda like how Behemoth and Odin are being dealt with by numbers alone. Yet keep in mind that this suggestions not in anyway FATE related.

All that just to appeal casually to the overall community that aren't in that 5% that are doing end game content but want to progress gear wise. Sure there's nerfs and echo buffs but that isn't a permanent solution since a lot of people are still having issues with Titan and Twintania.

Then there's other ways to appeal to casuals that just want to have fun and don't care much for gear. That being the long awaited Golden Saucer. As long as it has a long lasting plan for it the Golden Saucer will be a long lasting success. There's also other small pass times which casuals may see in housing, retainer ventures, and etc. As well as another big factor being new classes and jobs.

PvP is also another factor that has that discriminatory mix. Would be nice if there were alternatives such as battlegrounds, besieged, and ballista.

Overall I have faith in them making it the best it can be by the time the expansion hits. Yet it can go south if the community doesn't get the director and team to focus on fun and enjoyment first.

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Originally Posted by Noshpan

So a brand new MMO MUST have nearly a decade's worth of content a launch? Got it.

By the by, MMOs have been about end game. From EverQuest back in 2000 to ESO right now.

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They where never purely about end game. Here they pretty much strap a rocket on your back when you start that launches you to 50.

As for content versus a 10 year old game.. How much of that 10 year old content is still relevant at the moment?

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Originally Posted by Ceinwyn

I really don't want to talk bad about the game but it totally lacks the experience a mmorpg should have, it's nice to play a few months or weeks, depends on ure playstlye but ist too fast peaced for my taste!

The problem is, if u look close at this game, u'll soon realize, it's just a prettier WoW!
And why should anyone want to Play this instead of wow? which is actually better in terms of Content

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Ceinwyn, I really don't want to talk bad about you but you're fat, ugly, mentally incompetent, have bad hygiene, and are an all around bad person. You're nice to hang out with for a couple weeks but I dont know why anyone would want to stay with you any longer. Your older sister is way cooler than you. I would break up with you but I already bought you dinner so I feel obligates to stick around. But you can bet on me bitching about it the entire time.

leave, come back when there is more things to your liking.
that's all that needs to be said. sorry. nothing we can really do
in terms of content.
i doubt you'd like
golden saucer, chocobo breeding, p. housing, marriage etc.
as those are actually casual things to do. end-game is more your speed it seems but you dont wanna do that.
if u dont like this game, and u think wow is a bit better, then...go back to wow? O_o;
idk...xD like this game had to be refrubished so to speak and out less than a yr.
but u compared 2 decade old games that is flourished with content...i dont really understand the
constant comparisons of those 2 games lol. they took YEARS to build.

good luck to u op and i hope u find a game that caters to ur specific needs. :)

mid game? you mean like having us go back to sunken temple as a level 50?

because that suuuuuuuucks

A boring tolling, but C for effort.

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Originally Posted by Ceinwyn

I really don't want to talk bad about the game but it totally lacks the experience a mmorpg should have, it's nice to play a few months or weeks, depends on ure playstlye but ist too fast peaced for my taste!

The problem is, if u look close at this game, u'll soon realize, it's just a prettier WoW!...

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The game that gives you a Level 90 character for pre-ordering the expansion.

This is an MMO, you pay 60 bucks for 1-50 and 12 bucks a month for the end game.

What's OP smoking?
Let me have some. :)

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Originally Posted by Obysuca

"Lag" :P

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Huehuehue.
Well played.
I hate you for it, but well played.
I still want to hear you side of that point, though; i90 in and of itself being easier to obtain because of Myth cap is not the problem.
Maybe in conjunction with Echo, but you could argue that Echo is the actual problem in this scenario.
That is my point.
They've also begun tiering tome gear and raid gear differently, so it probably won't even be an issue down the line.

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

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I can agree with most of what you said, but I disagree that anything should be on the exact same level as raiding in any circumstance. I like what they're doing with having alternatives, such as the tome rewards, but doing something challenging should give a reward that is equally worth the effort. I am also of the mindset that Raid gear should be better than crafted gear or some other task that is less challenging. Because of the way this game is set up, the hardcore audience can make use of different pieces from different sets, so they can optimize accordingly by doing a bit of everything. Those that don't want to take up the challenging content can still progress by other means.

This system isn't perfect, as Atma is still annoying and can feel roadblocked at points and there really aren't any other alternatives for weapons (soldiery weapons require something from Second Coil, as far as I remember). Gear, sure, but not weapons. Atma is going to please the crowd that likes their grind, but not the people who don't want to do the challenging content (or can't for whatever reason), while both sides of the fence are going to say "get off my lawn, you're in my space and you're going to ruin the type of experience that I enjoy."

I agree that they should do something for the casuals that don't want to grind, but I don't think it should be equal to Raid gear, much like how Atma isn't on equal footing with Coil weapons. The fact that it will be upgraded makes everyone feel like they're going to have to do it eventually anyway, which is why people feel the need to have to do it despite not really wanting to, sort of how Provoke is an "optional" class skill, when its basically mandatory for later content. It seems like a choice when it isn't, really, and people think Relics are going to become that.