2.2 Feedback. RNG, Atma, Mirrors and the lack of response from the dev team/Yoshida.

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Originally Posted by lordparanoia

This game is becoming just FARMING the same easy content over and over again. Easy and brainless like fates.
And it is no fun. And I think there is no respect for us. And if they continue like this, no giving responses, I will quit asap.
I'm honestly fed up.
And the most funny thing is that Yoshida replied on the Mirrors "problem" ( JUST ONE THREAD ) and didn't give not even a small response for the Atma Problem.

Let me just say even that this 2.2 patch is the worst ever expect the SCOB.
We can clearly see the direction of this game and honestly I don't like it. People that didn't complain about ATMAs is just because they have been lucky.

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Just quit instead of announcing it in multiple posts. No offense, but you have made multiple posts saying that they are insulting you and your intelligence, complaining about the drop rate, bitterly complaining that they mentioned the mirrors before Atmas, saying how nothing in this patch was good and is nothing but frustration and sadness.... why do you even stay? The two Atmas I do have were from doing other content and happened to be in the area. Animus isn't even worth the time sink considering most people can get to Levi Ex with some practice. Yeah, it 'sucks' that some people have gotten their animus already, but that's because you're jealous. Understandable in many cases, but people were already forewarned that they may not even be able to finish their animus upgrade in the next three months. Suck it up and push through or just quit. Besides, we already know a nerf is inbound sooner or later. Look at everything in the past.

As it's a completely optional part of the game, I don't think it's ever going to be changed, at least not soon. It took me 13 hours for my 1st atma....I have to say that was a pretty sad time in my FF playing time. I wanted to quit so much, but ah well, the feeling upon getting all 12!!!

I didn't even do it for extra stats, I haven't even gotten a book yet. I guess a mild part of the reason was to change the appearance of my relic, but a BIG part of the reason was for that simple feeling of hunting an item. I've had this in every old game I ever played......searching for that elusive drop and finally, after all these years! You find it!!!

I wont cry if future players have it easier than people who already got their atmas, but they wont have that joy upon finding an atma as we did. Be careful what you ask for.

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Originally Posted by C-croft

Just quit instead of announcing it in multiple posts. No offense, but you have made multiple posts saying that they are insulting you and your intelligence, complaining about the drop rate, bitterly complaining that they mentioned the mirrors before Atmas, saying how nothing in this patch was good and is nothing but frustration and sadness.... why do you even stay? The two Atmas I do have were from doing other content and happened to be in the area. Animus isn't even worth the time sink considering most people can get to Levi Ex with some practice. Yeah, it 'sucks' that some people have gotten their animus already, but that's because you're jealous. Understandable in many cases, but people were already forewarned that they may not even be able to finish their animus upgrade in the next three months. Suck it up and push through or just quit. Besides, we already know a nerf is inbound sooner or later. Look at everything in the past.

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the question is: what do you want from me? I'm free to write whatever I want if I do it in total respect. So, please, don't bother me.
If I want to waste time writing the same things for 1000 times, maybe it's just because it's more funny then doing more then 1000 fates to get 0 atmas?
Yes, I'll repeat the same thing until I get a response. Don't read me if you get irritated by my posts.

Personally, I don't mind completing the books as they are discreet steps you can take toward your animus that can be done at your own pace for the most part (only problem is fates with a low pop rate, aka Giant Seps. Standing around waiting for a fate that may be completed within minutes is also not fun.)

However, spamming low level fates for hours on a level 50 class in the hope of winning the stupid RNG lottery (x12) sucks. Some RNG is ok. Too much creates certain situations where players just get screwed by the system. Creating situations where a certain portion of your customers lose just because the RNG gods don't like them does not strike me as good design. Too bad you have to do that crap first before you get to the reasonable part (the books).

It took me longer to get Enemy of my Enemy FATE to show up while camping the spawn area than it took to find 6 Atmas. I'd honestly rather farm more Atmas than wait for FATEs.

Atmas are fine took me like a week to get them all seems about average some took longer some shorter its just rng.

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Originally Posted by lordparanoia

the question is: what do you want from me? I'm free to write whatever I want if I do it in total respect. So, please, don't bother me.
If I want to waste time writing the same things for 1000 times, maybe it's just because it's more funny then doing more then 1000 fates to get 0 atmas?
Yes, I'll repeat the same thing until I get a response. Don't read me if you get irritated by my posts.

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I'm not really irritated, as snowflakes will need to feel like snowflakes. But it sounds like you need a push in some direction, whether it is quit, play other content, etc. Or you could sit here and spend your monthly sub and write your 100 posts. But keep one thing in mind. They will not be responding to you, but the entire player base.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Atmas are fine because I got lucky and it took me like a week to get them all seems about average some took longer some shorter its just rng.

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fixed that for you

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

fixed that for you

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Didn't get lucky some took 8, 8 and 10 hours while others were 1/1 or 15 min to get them. I finished my animus and I can say the myth farming was way worse then atmas and took much longer.

That's becayse you are not suppose to do it in 2 days. It's an obvious long-team goal to do thought the weeks.

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Originally Posted by lordparanoia

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All that energy that people expend typing out long complaint threads on the forums and threatening to quit (I'm sure you'll be missed, by the way) would likely be much better spent finding something to play that is enjoyable for them until such point in time that this particular game may become more suitable for their personal tastes. In other words, shit or get off the pot.

As far as people not complaining because they're the lucky ones, as I have pointed out in the forums before, not all of us are so lucky and most of us don't complain about it. Complaining about RNG is a choice. Complaining about anything is a choice. People who make excuses for being complainers seem to just need something to complain about, really. There is a huge difference between complaining (and threatening to quit) and making polite suggestions.

Also, there is a lot of demanding that the devs respond to all the complaints. Seriously? Perhaps they get sick and tired of dealing with complaints. Most people who are happy with the state of the game don't say anything at all, but the complainers sure want to be heard no matter how hard they have to stomp their little feet.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Didn't get lucky some took 8, 8 and 10 hours while others were 1/1 or 15 min to get them. I finished my animus and I can say the myth farming was way worse then atmas and took much longer.

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I had the same experience, where some took a very long time, but I got 6 in a period of about 3 hours. If I hadn't gotten that lucky streak, I would feel very differently about the whole thing. And considering the experience many have had (both on forums and people I've heard from in game), I consider that lucky. And that's why I don't like it, your entire enjoyment (finding the widget) is based off of pure low random chance that is going to vary wildly from player to player.

Why would you consider the myth farming worse? Just because it's longer? The atma grind *could* be longer, again, depending on your luck. The myth grind is fixed so you know what you're getting. And the myth grind involves lvl 50 dungeons where you have your entire moveset and are working with a group vs. spamming low level fates where you may only have 3 abilities total to choose from.

They tried to fix the rng problem with a bandaid (sands/oil/unidentified tomestones) but it wasn't enough. Either remove the lockout and allow us to farm like CT in 2.1(one loot a week) or move to a full token system.

This was our 4th week of killing raffles and we got our 3rd pair of healer gloves and 2nd mnk hat. I know it's a small sample size but this really fucking sucks and limits progression.

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Originally Posted by Morgan_Leah

This was our 4th week of killing raffles and we got our 3rd pair of healer gloves and 2nd mnk hat. I know it's a small sample size but this really fucking sucks and limits progression.

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Boohoo. This is normal for people who have come from a strong raiding background. In fact, this example is NOTHING compared to some of the drop rates/RNG/Timesinks of past MMOs. If you can't handle the RNG system, then find another game to play. RNG and Raiding go hand in hand when it comes to loot progression.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

Why would you consider the myth farming worse? Just because it's longer? The atma grind *could* be longer, again, depending on your luck. The myth grind is fixed so you know what you're getting. And the myth grind involves lvl 50 dungeons where you have your entire moveset and are working with a group vs. spamming low level fates where you may only have 3 abilities total to choose from.

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Here is why I consider myth farming worse. Took 2 weeks to finish, its the same 5 min dungeon 30 times per book. At least with fates you get some variety and you get to ride around in different areas of the game and its not the same thing over and over and its more relaxing then 5 min BF speed runs. Honestly doing fates for atmas was a lot more fun then doing 270 BF speed runs.

There is nothing wrong with the weapon system as it stands. It is working beautifully.

2.2 introduced 4 tiers of weapons:

Extreme Leviathan weapons (Item level 100 - when upgraded)
Seal / Coil Upgrade Weapons (Item level 110 - when upgraded)
Zodiac Weapons (We are told these can be upgraded in 2.25 and again in 2.3. Current belief is that when 2.3 arrives the upgrade will be item level 115).
Coil Drop Weapons (item level 115).

Coil Drop Weapons require the most amount of skill but significantly less time than a fully upgraded Zodiac weapon. 2.2 allows players who don't necessarily have the skill to take down the hardest bosses - to still possess an item level 115 weapon. If the player chooses to go the time consuming path - we can assume these weapons will be upgradeable for years to come. Having skill (and a bit of luck) will also nab you an equally powerful weapon (Coil Drop weapons).

Back in 2.1, did you complain when you had an item level 90 relic even though there were item level 95 weapons from Twintania available? Probably not. Pick up a Coil Upgraded weapon (item level 110) and you'll be in the same boat as before. There are enough options for everyone.

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Here is why I consider myth farming worse. Took 2 weeks to finish, its the same 5 min dungeon 30 times per book. At least with fates you get some variety and you get to ride around in different areas of the game and its not the same thing over and over and its more relaxing then 5 min BF speed runs. Honestly doing fates for atmas was a lot more fun then doing 270 BF speed runs.

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This is how I feel as well. I wouldn't consider myself lucky on any of the Atma, but there was variety. I don't think the Atma FATE system was a good way of implementing content, but it was still better then spamming Brayflox till my eyes bleed. I'm not even close to done and I am starting to have a hard time caring about Animus. I don't even mind the books, it is this ridiculous myth grind. If it were halved per book I might actually feel motivated to eye bleed for each one.

As far as Mirror drop rates.. it does need a bit of a boost. I still have yet to see one drop and cleared many times..

I was in Elitist Jerks during vanilla wow and raided up until Naxxramas. I never remember having this awful loot luck even with 40 man content and having to compete against 4 other people in a 40 man raid. If you ever raid new/old coil let me know how you feel after 30+ weeks without seeing an item you need.

The rng system is part of the genre but that doesn't mean it's a good system or that people should just accept it. Especially when SE is putting content out so quickly. When new content comes out everything old is rendered useless. You have to pray to rng Jesus that your gear will drop before the new content is released otherwise you'll be behind.

Wow had this shit system in place for years but they finally moved to a token system. SE re-released this game last year so it's inexcusable that they're using this system.

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Originally Posted by Thorauku

So where are those majority people you're pertaining to, why not let them talk?

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Upgrade-Quest

You wont find many posts with that many likes around this forums. And well you will say the people that visit the forums are a minority but the major part of them says that the atma farm is wrong.

There is an easy response to everyone who is complaining. "Back in 2.1 did you complain that you had an i-level 90 weapon when there were i-level 95 weapons from Twintania available? You either had the i-level 95 weapon or you were perfectly content with your i-level 90 weapon. Save up 1300 Soldiery, upgrade it (to an i-level 110 weapon) and then you're in the same boat as you were in 2.1." Why is everyone complaining?

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Originally Posted by Zumi

Here is why I consider myth farming worse. Took 2 weeks to finish, its the same 5 min dungeon 30 times per book. At least with fates you get some variety and you get to ride around in different areas of the game and its not the same thing over and over and its more relaxing then 5 min BF speed runs. Honestly doing fates for atmas was a lot more fun then doing 270 BF speed runs.

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You don't *HAVE* to do speed runs for your entire batch of myth. There are many other sources of myth. They may be less efficient, but you do have the option to mix it up if you want to.

However it would be better if capped soldiery converted to myth. This would open up farming options even further.

and really...the atma portion of the Zodiac quest is really the only hurdle. The Mythology portion of the quest can easily be done casually without needing to find a dedicated group to speed run with. People just don't know how to manage their time. For example:

6 days a week - log in - turn on your expert duty finder roulette - do beast tribe quests while you are waiting for duty finder to put you into a group. Complete dungeon, complete beast tribe quests, log out for the day. This will net you 70 soldiery and 110 mythology (50 from dungeon and roughly 60 from beast tribe quests). On the 7th day, do beast tribe quests and do a hard mode duty roulette. This will net you 30 soldiery and roughly 160 mythology (50 from dungeon, 50 roulette bonus and roughly 60 from beast tribe quests).

Playing this way (about an hour per day) you are going to net roughly 820 mythology per week while capping your soldiery (16.5 weeks to complete the quest). If you don't need soldiery, you could just do hard mode roulettes everyday and earn roughly 1,120 mythology seals per week (12 weeks). I don't see the problem here.

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Originally Posted by Rose-Wild

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Upgrade-Quest

You wont find many posts with that many likes around this forums. And well you will say the people that visit the forums are a minority but the major part of them says that the atma farm is wrong.

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If you actually read every post in that thread it has very mixed opinions and suggestions. I've seen posts with over 300 - 600 likes on this forum.

The biggest agreement I have with ispano and disagreement with you, regardless of the topic at hand is:

The majority of ppl that are content with something typically don't express it. Where most ppl express their disappointment in something to its creator.

That is why a lot of this forum is full of complaints in general than praises towards the game. You truly do not know what the majority of the community thinks regarding Atmas.

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Originally Posted by ReplicaX

If you actually read every post in that thread it has very mixed opinions and suggestions. I've seen posts with over 300 - 600 likes on this forum.

The biggest agreement I have with ispano and disagreement with you, regardless of the topic at hand is:

The majority of ppl that are content with something typically don't express it. Where most ppl express their disappointment in something to its creator.

If you actully read my post you will notice that i speak about the likes, not the topic.

That is why a lot of this forum is full of complaints in general than praises towards the game. You truly do not know what the majority of the community thinks regarding Atmas.

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If you actually read my post you will notice that i speak about the likes and not the topic.

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Originally Posted by Rose-Wild

If you actually read my post you will notice that i speak about the likes and not the topic.

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Apparently you care more about likes than logic, common sense and the opinion of others. If you actually took the time to proof read your own comments and actually read mine, you would notice you commented inside what you quoted from me.

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Originally Posted by ReplicaX

Apparently you care more about likes than logic, common sense and the opinion of others. If you actually took the time to proof read your own comments and actually read mine, you would notice you commented inside what you quoted from me. Putting words into your mouth...

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I'm sure it was an accident....

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Originally Posted by MasamuneBranford

Snip.

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And if you have more time, Main Storyline queue is another 100 Myth, and both Castrum and Praetorium are super fast these days.

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Originally Posted by SavageWolf

Boohoo. This is normal for people who have come from a strong raiding background. In fact, this example is NOTHING compared to some of the drop rates/RNG/Timesinks of past MMOs. If you can't handle the RNG system, then find another game to play. RNG and Raiding go hand in hand when it comes to loot progression.

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Shut up telling people to find another game to play, people are allowed opinions and they are allowed to whine about things they don't like.

Regardless of what you may think there are A LOT of people who don't like the ATMA grind and I am willing to bet there are more who dislike it than like it.

There are better ways of implementing grind than being over reliant on RNG, SE have put out a small bit of content and have tacked on a crap load of RNG just to make it last longer than it should.

Its lazy.

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Originally Posted by C-croft

I'm sure it was an accident....

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Its more than the mistake C-croft, otherwise I wouldn't have even bothered posting.

I haven't started my Atma farming yet, but I look forward to the entire process. I played EQ back in 1999 when in order to get my epic weapon I had to kill a mob that dropped what I needed twice in a RL year. Yes, you read that correctly. I like it when not everyone can have everything in the game. There's no need for everyone to have every single thing in the game and it's perfectly fine for some things to take an extremely long time to get, whether that be by farming or otherwise. If the atma weapons took a week to farm then you'd complain it went too fast and now you have nothing to do.

It's high time they responded is all whether "yay" or "nay" in regard to changing it.

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Originally Posted by Gesser

It's high time they responded is all whether "yay" or "nay" in regard to changing it.

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I bet they're saving the response for 2.25 announcement and they'll surprise us with some GREAT Update for the Relic Quest that will make ATMA so powerful that those who get pass the ATMA RNG can start upgrading their Relic up to ilvl 200!

NAH!!!! Jokes aside we will never get anything we want.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

I bet they're saving the response for 2.25 announcement and they'll surprise us with some GREAT Update for the Relic Quest that will make ATMA so powerful that those who get pass the ATMA RNG can start upgrading their Relic up to ilvl 200!

NAH!!!! Jokes aside we will never get anything we want.

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Hehe maybe... but they need to at least say "hey guys, we'll have news regarding Atma come 2.25, please look forward to it"... rather than dead air.