The reason Summoner needs revamp threads keep popping up

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Summoner's use Summoning Magic according to their character job description throughout all Final Fantasy titles even the name Summoner implies their main source of power is Summoning Magic. and Arcanist's use Arcane Magic which is a renamed Green Mage. Either way Square can't get around the fact that the Summoner is a Green Mage with a pet and not a Summoner Job. Anyways the base class for Summoner should be an Evoker and Thaumaturge and current Summoner's should be renamed Green Mages which will solve the problem of the Summoner Job not being an actual Summoner.

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Its fine the developers are working on the future Egi http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...atar-Egi/page3

Most of the summoner have left i believe or don't even look into it now there was all ready a discussion regarding the size of the egi, So I can't make a thread next week since they are working on it just waiting for the future egi lol

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Originally Posted by Madoka

Please stop.

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Rather then following him around the thread I think you should look around regarding summoners complaint show him what the Mods have said regarding it

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Originally Posted by Hvinire

We discussed your feedback about the design of the egi with the development team. As was mentioned previously during the Beta test, the design planner reiterated that egi were designed to be a manifestation of a percentage of power taken from the primals and are intentionally designed to appear differently from the primal. As such, we aren't planning on changing the look of egi at higher levels.

We will however continue to take in your feedback when creating new egi that will be added in the future.

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Case closed

A post of you quoting 10 people is far from "the community all wants change"

SMN is an established class, the Lore of XIV does not allow for what you want, and your heads are too far up your asses to comprehend this. Not to mention compared to the few quotes you have there, there's far more people telling you the opposite in every single thread created.

This is Final Fantasy XIV. Not Final Fantasy III, not IV, not V, not IX, not X and not XI. You might also notice that summoners act differently in every single one of these games, holy shit.

The only thing I'd ask for in regards to SMN is that the size of the Egi be scaled up to be about as large as the average character model. Maybe about as big as a Roe, if we wanna get crazy. It seems a bit silly to me that the size of the egi we summon is smaller than the Egis seen during the questline cutscenes, specifically Titan Egi. Compared to the cutscene where it's introduced, the one we summon during everyday play looks like a pebble compared to a big rock.

It wouldn't take much effort to go into whatever digital editor they use for character models and scale it up, either. I'm no expert on 3d modeling but I'm pretty sure the click, drag and resize tactic can be applied. While I'd love for a rework based more around the Egi's abilities, I'd be content with a size increase. At the very least, it would make the Egis feel more imposing then these tiny little imps we've got flying around right now.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Summoner's use Summoning Magic according to their character job description throughout all Final Fantasy titles even the name Summoner implies their main source of power is Summoning Magic. and Arcanist's use Arcane Magic which is a renamed Green Mage. Either way Square can't get around the fact that the Summoner is a Green Mage with a pet and not a Summoner Job. Anyways the base class for Summoner should be an Evoker and Thaumaturge and current Summoner's should be renamed Green Mages which will solve the problem of the Summoner Job not being an actual Summoner.

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Read up on your lore ffs your ignorance is mind numbing

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Originally Posted by Madoka

A post of you quoting 10 people is far from "the community all wants change"

SMN is an established class, the Lore of XIV does not allow for what you want, and your heads are too far up your asses to comprehend this. Not to mention compared to the few quotes you have there, there's far more people telling you the opposite in every single thread created.

This is Final Fantasy XIV. Not Final Fantasy III, not IV, not V, not IX, not X and not XI. You might also notice that summoners act differently in every single one of these games, holy shit.

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That's cause this is the 1st time the Summoner is it's own job and the thing that all Final Fantasy titles have in common is the character jobs stay the same the world and the lore changes but the job lore never changes that's what they did to the Summoner in this game this would be akin to turning a Black Mage into A Water Magic user and still calling it a Black Mage.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

That's cause this is the 1st time the Summoner is it's own job and the thing that all Final Fantasy titles have in common is the character jobs stay the same the world and the lore changes but the job lore never changes.

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You are incorrect. Please just stop

Square should just turn the Black Mage into a Water Magic user and tell the players that's what the job is suppose to be and see the response

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Square should just turn the Black Mage into a Water Magic user and tell the players that's what the job is suppose to be and see the response

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You are either making a bad point, or you are trolling terribly after you've been flamed for your terrible opinions. Either way please stop posting

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Originally Posted by AmyNeudaiz

You are either making a bad point, or you are trolling terribly after you've been flamed for your terrible opinions. Either way please stop posting

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Seriously the Summoner in this game is the Saboteur paradigm role from Final Fantasy XIII with a pet

Akiza can I subscribe to your forum trolling? You troll other forums as well? Some of the best trolling I've ever seen! (except that no, it really isn't)

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

Akiza can I subscribe to your forum trolling? You troll other forums as well? Some of the best trolling I've ever seen! (except that no, it really isn't)

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I'm not trolling the problem is their are people on this thread that don't main a End Game Summoner saying that the Summoner is fine while players that main Summoner's say that its not a Summoner its a Negative Status Effect Mage. I want the Summoner Job described when I Google Final Fantasy Summoner not whatever they have in this game.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

I'm not trolling the problem is their are people on this thread that don't main a End Game Summoner saying that the Summoner is fine while players that main Summoner say that its not a Summoner its a Negative Status Effect Mage. I want the Summoner Job described when I Google Final Fantasy Summoner not whatever they have in this game.

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How do you know what someone's main is? Madoka is in my static and I can vouch for him. He ONLY plays summoner yet he says you're ideas are game breaking terrible.

And no, it's a DoT/Support class. If you don't like it try to play something else.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

I'm not trolling the problem is their are people on this thread that don't main a End Game Summoner saying that the Summoner is fine while players that main Summoner's say that its not a Summoner its a Negative Status Effect Mage. I want the Summoner Job described when I Google Final Fantasy Summoner not whatever they have in this game.

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I found it kinda funny that you say u google FF summoner it is not like what we have now.... summoner in every FF game has been different. What is a negative status effect mage anyway, only virus/E4E effect enemy negatively. It is a dot based pet class, like in every other MMO.

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Originally Posted by NightReach

I found it kinda funny that you say u google FF summoner it is not like what we have now.... summoner in every FF game has been different. What is a negative status effect mage anyway, only virus/E4E effect enemy negatively. It is a dot based pet class, like in every other MMO.

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Wrong Summoners have always used summoning magic as a base if you read the general description its that they were always either an equip ability or the sub job of a White Mage never their own job. Also Summoner's always had impressive summons which makes the Summoner in this game look like more like weak compared to other jobs.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Wrong Summoners have always used summoning magic as a base if you read the general description its that they were always either an equip ability or the sub job of a White Mage never their own job. Also Summoner's always had impressive summons which makes the Summoner in this game look like more like weak compared to other jobs.

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FFIII - Pure Summoner
FFIV - Your Summoner is also your primary Black Mage
FFV - Pure-ish Summoner
FFVI - No such thing
FFVII - No such thing
FFVIII - No such thing
FFIX - White Mage and Summoner
FFX - White Mage and Summoner
FFXI - Summoner
FFXII - No such thing
FFXIII - No such thing
FFXIV - Summoner and Arcane (Bio) mage

Man, look at how uniform the Summoner job has been in the past. Look how all of them used summoning as a base, or used white magic.

if anything, if we look at past Final Fantasy games as a guide, Summoner shouldn't even exist, as that seems to be the most common thing in FF.

As someone who mains Summoner, I do feel some tweaks could be made to it. Certain abilities could be changed *cough*Tri-disaster*cough*, Pet behaviors could be made a bit more robust, such as instead of the general Sic and Obey commands, you set the skills to be automatically used or not used as the situation warrants. Possibly the pets themselves could be altered to tie into a Summoner's DoTs a bit more so the pets actually feel like a part of the job, instead of a bit tacked on. (as an example, though not probably not feasible, gives you an idea of the direction I'm thinking. Titan-egi's enmity building skills are stronger (the enmity part, not the damage part) on an enemy affected by its master's debuffs. A Summoner's heals are slightly stronger on their pets. Things like that)
Otherwise I've not any real problems with it beyond player perception. Pretty much everyone I've met on Lich believe BLM to be superior to SMN in every respect.

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Originally Posted by Bombast

FFIII - Pure Summoner
FFIV - Your Summoner is also your primary Black Mage
FFV - Pure-ish Summoner
FFVI - No such thing
FFVII - No such thing
FFVIII - No such thing
FFIX - White Mage and Summoner
FFX - White Mage and Summoner
FFXI - Summoner
FFXII - No such thing
FFXIII - No such thing
FFXIV - Summoner and Arcane (Bio) mage

Man, look at how uniform the Summoner job has been in the past. Look how all of them used summoning as a base, or used white magic.

if anything, if we look at past Final Fantasy games as a guide, Summoner shouldn't even exist, as that seems to be the most common thing in FF.

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Have you actual played any other Final Fantasy game no matter how you spin it the Summoner as a job stone always used Summoning Magic and as a stand alone job its base magic should be Summoning Magic

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Have you actual played any other Final Fantasy game no matter how you spin it the Summoner as a job stone always used Summoning Magic and as a stand alone job its base magic should be Summoning Magic

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Can you read?

In almost every FF that has Summoner as a job, the Summoner spends most of their time casting magic instead of summoning, either healing or sparing their MP by using normal Black magic.

have you played an FF besides 11?

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Have you actual played any other Final Fantasy game no matter how you spin it the Summoner as a job stone always used Summoning Magic and as a stand alone job its base magic should be Summoning Magic

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The only games in which summoner only summoned were 3 and 5.

Rydia - Black mage summoner, more efficient to use black magic
Garnet - Healer with some offensive summons, she's healing instead of summoning while everyone else does the real damage
Eiko -She'd rather use holy than summon for damage
Yuna - Her summons are only really for meat shields and when you do summon them they take over the entire party's spots. Otherwise she's a whm until you get out of her sphere grid.

In 3 conjurer sucks because its random, summoner is ok but there's better jobs. In 5 golem is great early on but Summoner as a whole is not a good job. In XI SMN could rarely do what they wanted and were usually relegated to healing.

And once a fucking gain, XIV does not function in such a way that you can be a pet focused class. You will fucking die, you will get devoured you will get stoned you will eat 30000 damage in T7. The game does not work in a way to let you directly control 2 avatars easily.

I'm done

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Originally Posted by Madoka

I'm done

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rip Madoka

Everyone knows if Square were to add another caster job now the Summoner job would be destroyed because a lot of casters overshadow the Summoner even the Black Mage over shadows the Summoner now what will happen when they add the Red Mag the Summoner population would dwindle to nothing. Square can't even add another caster job without killing the Summoner unless they make the Summoner more about summoning. The Arcanist is a channeling class but it dosen't seem like it's channelling much of anything when most people think of channeling they think of witches that can affect the weather the atmosphere and call forth storms , intense winds, earth quakes and he'll fire.

Why don't you just accept the fact that everyone disagrees with your outlook, and stop posting? I seriously cannot believe you're not trolling; there's just no way you could possibly ignore that much of what everyone else is saying. And I main SMN on my alt btw. To repeat what several others have said, your ideas are absolutely horrible, and what you say SMN has been in past FF games, it hasn't been. There's really nothing else left to say.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Everyone knows if Square were to add another caster job now the Summoner job would be destroyed because a lot of casters overshadow the Summoner even the Black Mage over shadows the Summoner now what will happen when they add the Red Mag the Summoner population would dwindle to nothing. Square can't even add another caster job without killing the Summoner unless they make the Summoner more about summoning. The Arcanist is a channeling class but it dosen't seem like it's channelling much of anything when most people think of channeling they think of witches that can affect the weather the atmosphere and call forth storms , intense winds, earth quakes and he'll fire.

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..a lot of casters?

# of casters;

1) Summoner
2) Black Mage

I would prefer them to go another way than overbuffing the egis we have.

I was thinking about the way they told us how dark knight could for exemple comes from gladiator but really modify the base actions to fit the role.

What if, when you invoke an Egi, it modify actions like bio, bio2 and miasma to do something related to the egi you summoned? You could even cast spell, but they would come out from your egi instead of you.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Everyone knows if Square were to add another caster job now the Summoner job would be destroyed because a lot of casters overshadow the Summoner even the Black Mage over shadows the Summoner now what will happen when they add the Red Mag the Summoner population would dwindle to nothing. Square can't even add another caster job without killing the Summoner unless they make the Summoner more about summoning. The Arcanist is a channeling class but it dosen't seem like it's channelling much of anything when most people think of channeling they think of witches that can affect the weather the atmosphere and call forth storms , intense winds, earth quakes and he'll fire.

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How about a new casting job where the power of run on sentences kills off interest and brain cells.

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Originally Posted by Eggnook24

How about a new casting job where the power of run on sentences kills off interest and brain cells.

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http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/m...ps683f01f3.png

Already in game.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Everyone knows if Square were to add another caster job now the Summoner job would be destroyed because a lot of casters overshadow the Summoner even the Black Mage over shadows the Summoner now what will happen when they add the Red Mag the Summoner population would dwindle to nothing. Square can't even add another caster job without killing the Summoner unless they make the Summoner more about summoning. The Arcanist is a channeling class but it dosen't seem like it's channelling much of anything when most people think of channeling they think of witches that can affect the weather the atmosphere and call forth storms , intense winds, earth quakes and he'll fire.

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I think it's pretty safe to say when people think anything it's not even close to the incoherent gibberish you keep spewing out. This is getting out of hand. How about you trying to make even slightly coherent comments so people can even follow what the hell you're on about. You keep making tons of claims for "most people", but again most of these are unsubstantiated. Are there summoners dissatisfied with the job, yes, but the same can be said for all the jobs and classes in the game. I won't even argue that there's tweaks to be made, but what you ask for and the claims you make keep making are getting wilder and wilder.

So how bout them blue mages guys?

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Originally Posted by SamaelVantas

So how bout them blue mages guys?

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A new caster job would bury the Summoner. There'd be a bunch of Summoner's going to Blue Mage.

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

Why don't you just accept the fact that everyone disagrees with your outlook, and stop posting? I seriously cannot believe you're not trolling; there's just no way you could possibly ignore that much of what everyone else is saying. And I main SMN on my alt btw. To repeat what several others have said, your ideas are absolutely horrible, and what you say SMN has been in past FF games, it hasn't been. There's really nothing else left to say.

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What are you talking about Summoner is one of the most iconic roles in Final Fantasy and previous Final Fantasy games either they had the Summoner paired with a White Mage or it was a equipped job stone.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

A new caster job would bury the Summoner. There'd be a bunch of Summoner's going to Blue Mage.

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Oh please, do explain to us in great detail how another caster job would bury summoner. There's only two caster jobs, two melee jobs, two tank jobs, and two healing jobs so would adding one more of something besides caster (or physical ranged since there's only one right now) bury those too? Sorry, but summoner stands firmly on it's own. I could understand if two jobs were nearly identical, but black mage and summoner are very different.

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Originally Posted by Ricdeau

Are there summoners dissatisfied with the job, yes, but the same can be said for all the jobs and classes in the game. I won't even argue that there's tweaks to be made, but what you ask for and the claims you make keep making are getting wilder and wilder.

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Most players want to just small tweaks to their class/job maybe adjust some traits. The general consensus on the Summoner is it has a fun gameplay style but it's not actually a Summoner that can't be said about other classes/jobs. Summoner's need an overall to their mechanics and be more about using Summoning Magic and less about using diseases.

I can only take so much downs from a thread.
This one has become over that limit.
Just from one person too.
Deer god why....

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Originally Posted by Madoka

A post of you quoting 10 people is far from "the community all wants change"

SMN is an established class, the Lore of XIV does not allow for what you want, and your heads are too far up your asses to comprehend this. Not to mention compared to the few quotes you have there, there's far more people telling you the opposite in every single thread created.

This is Final Fantasy XIV. Not Final Fantasy III, not IV, not V, not IX, not X and not XI. You might also notice that summoners act differently in every single one of these games, holy shit.

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Did you say 10 but missed out the 27 pages in here lol http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...TION%29/page27

Dev already confirmed they are going to work on the future egi. Final fantasy XIV is base on final fantasy series games class names,chocobo,avater names etc I can give a full list what they have added from other final fantasy series games only a fool like you won't understand try to read up more rather then attacking someone that opens a thread because of there class.

You just don't understand that dev have spoken yet you bark like a sheep and can't comprehend what you are saying you want "likes" I can give you but it won't change what the dev have said tho.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

Most players want to just small tweaks to their class/job maybe adjust some traits. The general consensus on the Summoner is it has a fun gameplay style but it's not actually a Summoner that can't be said about other classes/jobs. Summoner's need an overall to their mechanics and be more about using Summoning Magic and less about using diseases.

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Again, you keep speaking for a large group of people, but you provide no evidence at all. You proclaim that most of the population doesn't like it. I'd beg to differ given there's still plenty of summoners around, and the development team has not made comment on it. Once again, lets travel back in time to 2.1 and now lets look at dragoon, monk, and warrior. You see the difference here? There was a negative outlook on these classes, the development team took action, but summoner has remained pretty intact. So if we just want to ride on anecdotal evidence alone this would lead the conclusion that SE is relatively happy with the state of the class which also means a healthy portion of the playerbase is too. Also more anecdotal evidence tells me that majority of people I know that play summoner are fine with it over the ones that aren't. As is the general consensus of this silly thread too.

See what I did there. I made a lot of claims on other's behalf. Therefore it must be true!

omg you guys even read the thread I have linked the thread and what the dev have said.

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Originally Posted by Hvinire

We discussed your feedback about the design of the egi with the development team. As was mentioned previously during the Beta test, the design planner reiterated that egi were designed to be a manifestation of a percentage of power taken from the primals and are intentionally designed to appear differently from the primal. As such, we aren't planning on changing the look of egi at higher levels.

We will however continue to take in your feedback when creating new egi that will be added in the future.

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Originally Posted by Akiza

The general consensus on the Summoner is it has a fun gameplay style but it's not actually a Summoner that can't be said about other classes/jobs.

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What? SMN is nowhere near unique in having its players whine about how it isn't a "real" (insert class here). At least 1/3 of the jobs have people complaining about their implementation because they don't understand that a design choice they disagree with isn't the end of the world.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

What? SMN is nowhere near unique in having its players whine about how it isn't a "real" (insert class here). At least 1/3 of the jobs have people complaining about their implementation because they don't understand that a design choice they disagree with isn't the end of the world.

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Its DoT class away from Summoner class and the idea comes from all the final fantasy series lets not forget that.

I rather have it as summoner class where you summoner and give orders but thats not gona happen.

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Originally Posted by Jediman

omg you guys even read the thread I have linked the thread and what the dev have said.

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What does the future design of egis have to do with completely revamping the class? Like OMG, man, did you even read what the guy has been was asking for?

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Originally Posted by Ricdeau

What does the future design of egis have to do with completely revamping the class? Like OMG, man, did you even read what the guy has been was asking for?

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I don't blame him I don't mind it as well because I don't want the DoT class lol

But its not gona happen i just want the egi too look like proper avatars egi thats all