Is anyone else really disappointed with the nerfs coming in 2.2?

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Originally Posted by Kuponutz

Ok, so there will be a button to make the bees appear in AK? To make moves on AK bosses hit with the same intensity? For FATES to retain difficulty?

Great, I retract everything I said then.

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People do AK for the challenge? What kind of example is that?

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Originally Posted by Kuponutz

I never said what other people should think, just how I feel. I can wish whatever I want to want/wish whatever I want. Doesn't mean they have to wish/want or even consider the same thing.

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I've understood you. I just wanted to point out that your opinion has no value in other people's mind if they don't care about the buff/nerf.

As an exemple, I could talk about Titan Ex. I once thought I would be proud to defeat him. I now know I'll use the 5 wipes bonus to get him done once for all and never look back at that poorly designed fight (no fight should be THAT lag-dependent). I will have no sense of achievement. Even if I manage to beat him with no buff and no overgear. I just hate him too much to bother about him.


Other thing : AK nerfs are only here to make the runs faster for those who need it (aka relic quest). The people faring AK nowadays barely see the bees anyway, 2 imminent catastrophe at most, and never get hit by th egolem. These "nerfs" have absolutely no incidence

XI system was dumb, and honestly so are you. stop trying to deny stuff to other people because of your precious epeen. you won't be doing 1-5 anymore, and even if you are it's already going to be trivialized by higher ilevel gear that you get from 6-9.

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Originally Posted by Kuponutz

Ok, so there will be a button to make the bees appear in AK? To make moves on AK bosses hit with the same intensity? For FATES to retain difficulty?

Great, I retract everything I said then.

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The situation is this. You can have all content retain its level of difficulty. Under this scenario, 6 more months or a year down the road a new player will take a LONG time to get something like the relic quest done. No one who has played for months will be doing it, and new players wont "know" the content like we do. Now you can argue that they should join a FC and get help or PF etc....but honestly every time there is an influx of new players do YOU want to go back and do that to help them again and again?

By nerfing older content as new stuff comes in, you get a situation where newer players can group together, and can still experience and see the same things we did - albeit in a simpler "once through and your done" type, thereby joining you on the new stuff.

And realistically, does it matter if someone gets a drop you got 4 months ago? You had it for months before they did, that's the reward of being a hardcore.

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Originally Posted by Xairos

As far as the bees are concerned. People who are so far passed AK burn the wall before the bees even pop. Missing the bees is a non-issue because no one waits for them anyway. New players wont even miss the bees because they will be removed.

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AK is faceroll in it's current state. Dumbing it down more won't make a lot of difference, really. Will just get me to my next dungeon that much faster.

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Originally Posted by Xairos

As far as the bees are concerned. People who are so far passed AK burn the wall before the bees even pop. Missing the bees is a non-issue because no one waits for them anyway. .

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I actually agree with this. But, if Wall is being killed before bees pop then there wouldn't be a need to remove them. As for new players not missing them, I'm sure they won't, doesn't mean they should get a free ride ;)

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Originally Posted by jars

XI system was dumb, and honestly so are you. stop trying to deny stuff to other people because of your precious epeen. you won't be doing 1-5 anymore, and even if you are it's already going to be trivialized by higher ilevel gear that you get from 6-9.

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Actually, I will be doing 1-5 again, a lot. I enjoy it. Again, this has nothing to do with my epeen, I could care less about my epeen. Who am I trying to deny anything from? They can do exactly what everyone else who has beaten the content did. And I am sure Levi and 6-9 will kick my ass, probably for quite a while. Maybe I'm a masochist, but I like being pushed and challenged.

This is not an elementary school spelling bee, every kid should not get a trophy. You either work hard and get the reward or you don't. But giving reward to everyone trivializes the work of all participants.

EDIT: BTW, whoever suggested doing Extremes in Darklight, that sounds like a riot, time to convince some people we need to do that today, lol

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Originally Posted by Kuponutz

I actually agree with this. But, if Wall is being killed before bees pop then there wouldn't be a need to remove them. As for new players not missing them, I'm sure they won't, doesn't mean they should get a free ride ;)

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I appreciate the humor (no sarcasm), but technically it isnt a free ride. They still have to fight the wall.

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Originally Posted by Kuponutz

Actually, I will be doing 1-5 again, a lot. I enjoy it. Again, this has nothing to do with my epeen, I could care less about my epeen. And I am sure Levi and 6-9 will kick my ass, probably for quite a while. Maybe I'm a masochist, but I like being pushed and challenged.

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But here's the thing, when you work up the idea to go back to old content, unless you put on some DL or myth gear, then you will be overgeared for the content. I am over geared for Titan HM, but guess what? I can still get killed on that fight. I still have to obey the rules of the mechanics and the fight. Even with a 10% buff I imagine people will still die. And thus, it will still be challenging to "them".

Perception is king.

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

I was going to say, CoP went through the same adjustments we're seeing now. But with CoP, the difficulty was reduced after many complaints and after many months--some adjustments were many years--following CoP's release. In the case of FFXIV, difficulty reduction was planned from the start.

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But you have to remember, Time for development in reaction to user comments is much much faster in todays gaming market. Back in the FFXI days it took month before word got to the Japanese Players, and then on to the Japanese Developers. Today it's a million times faster.

Perception is king.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

People complained every time CoP was made easier too, because they failed to understand that hard content gets harder on it's own over time by nature of all the good players not wanting to do it anymore, and especially not with new or inexperienced players.

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I was going to say, CoP went through the same adjustments we're seeing now. But with CoP, the difficulty was reduced after many complaints and after many months--some adjustments were many years--following CoP's release. In the case of FFXIV, difficulty reduction was planned from the start.

Why does someone killing something and getting something you got, but more easily, mean that your time was wasted? When I think about wasted time, I think about the months that FCs spent on Twintania for just the right amount of RNG or 15 minutes of adequate execution.

I already done all the 2.0 and 2.1 content many times. I am perfectly fine with it getting nerfed because I will be focusing on the new content coil 6-9 and mog + levi ex. I did the old content when it was hard that is a good enough achivement for me, it doesn't bother me one bit that people can catch up, I will be enjoying my new content.

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Originally Posted by Delorean

Why does someone killing something and getting something you got, but more easily, mean that your time was wasted? When I think about wasted time, I think about the months that FCs spent on Twintania for just the right amount of RNG or 15 minutes of adequate execution.

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Do you study your ass off for a test, get an A and then are really happy for the people who stayed out drinking all night and got Bs and As from the curve? Probably not, you worked harder, right?

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Originally Posted by Kuponutz

Do you study your ass off for a test, get an A and then are really happy for the people who stayed out drinking all night and got Bs and As from the curve? Probably not, you worked harder, right?

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Video games and exams are apples and oranges

I have beaten everything in the game multiple times, the nerfs are better for the game, get over it

I have to say I agree with OP. I'm a new player, highest level is 35. Just because I haven't gotten to content yet doesn't mean I want it to be a cake walk when I get there.

That said, I haven't experienced the content so I don't have a good reference on how these changes will affect it.

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Originally Posted by Kuponutz

Do you study your ass off for a test, get an A and then are really happy for the people who stayed out drinking all night and got Bs and As from the curve? Probably not, you worked harder, right?

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Bad example lol I never studied, got drunk and still got my A`s. Doesn't matter how much you study. You either get it or you don't. All these people saying mmo should do this and be that should get together and make their own game. Then watch the complaints come in lol.

im so sick of seeing people saying "oh you must just be a hardcore elitist, you are only 1% of the population anyways go away" any time someone disagrees with the content nerfs

i disagree with the content nerfs, and its not cuz i give a flying f**k what other people do with their time or game. i think nerfing content is stupid, A. because the content really isnt that old to begin with B. its really not "that" hard and C. it completely destroys any longevity this game might have.

skyrocketing players to the latest/greatest content is just lame, all it does is make the game shorter. expansions and new content should extend the life of the game, not the other way around. no wonder these games see such a high turn over rate, theres nothing to keep people around.

with the way things are currently going the game will continue to be a revolving door of new players burning out on content 2 months after it gets released

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Originally Posted by Kuponutz

I never said what other people should think, just how I feel. I can wish whatever I want to want/wish whatever I want. Doesn't mean they have to wish/want or even consider the same thing.

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That means we can just ignore you then, good to know. He's some stuff for you to chew on.

Fates needed fixing, since the addition of duty roulette, I have seen far more often battles like the chimera in north thalan not being touched because the player base as moved away from fates as a primary method of leveling.

Also while using duty roulette I have seen the type of players in AK change from higher Ilvl's of darklight and above to an avg of sub-darklight down to AF gear. AK is a content gate for GC and Relic weapons and taking away the Fly's will help with getting people past this hurdle. Less used content is always going to be relaxed for people lagging behind.

As for the other trials, Like the EX primals. You already said you don't have a problem with it being done with Coil, so why is it such a problem with these. These are truly optional buffs and only come in effect after a wipe. the current difficulty is still intact. Something tells me this is a hit to your ego, for whatever reason that may be.

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Originally Posted by Kuponutz

Why would you nerf AK? Is it really THAT hard that they have to nerf every boss? Is AK really that big of a problem?

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For the nerf of AK, you have to remember that DL stuff won't be buyable anymore. It will be drops from the new dungeons. So, people won't be able to farm Castrum/Praetorium to buy DL before they go to AK.
And for groups of new people, with only basic AF and 35-45 jewelry, yes, AK, as it stands can be hard.

Sure, those people could farm Castrum/Praetorium ad nauseam to obtain myth tomes, but I suppose they won't give 300 each for random main scenario, so they'd have to do more of them to stuff themselves. SE is nerfing AK so that these people will have 4 dungeons to run to begin acquiring "HL" stuff instead of 3.

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Originally Posted by Almalexia

I was going to say, CoP went through the same adjustments we're seeing now. But with CoP, the difficulty was reduced after many complaints and after many months--some adjustments were many years--following CoP's release. In the case of FFXIV, difficulty reduction was planned from the start.

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Well I would say that SE waited too long to adjust things FFXI, and when they did it was either too little too late, or completely ham-handed.

So I'm glad they are easing XIV content in a timely and thought out manner.

Turn. Echo. Off.

I ain't disappointed and I don't see how it even affects you in anyway since you already completed.

If old content doesn't get a nerf the percentage of people that will get to do the new content is just gonna keep on diminishing and we know how that will lead to less subscribers since that's the only content to experience at end game. Also you wont even be seeing millions of these people that will complete it.

Also while there's nerf to old content that wont mean people still can't die to mechanics. Since Extreme Garuda and Titan will still have a 1 shot ability.

If you aren't doing the fights already with minimal requirements then you have no right to be complaining about these nerfs because that ain't hardcore.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

So I'm glad they are easing XIV content in a timely and thought out manner.

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EX primals have barely been out 3 months, at this point they might as well just release leviathan x with the buff too, wtf is the point in releasing in unbuffed at all? f**k it, echo buffs should just be on all content the moment its released, if people dont like it they can just click it off. seems legit

You get bragging rights if you have completed difficult content before it gets nerfed.

New content usually raises the bar somehow and gives you new bragging rights if you stay on top of it.

Even if old content gets nerfed and people catch up to you and subsequently surpass you, they will never have the bragging rights of having been there, done that with all the pre-nerfed content.

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Originally Posted by alhandra

EX primals have barely been out 3 months, at this point they might as well just release leviathan x with the buff too, wtf is the point in releasing in unbuffed at all? f**k it, echo buffs should just be on all content the moment its released, if people dont like it they can just click it off. seems legit

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The EX primals themselves don't even give gear that is best in slot. You need to kill all 3 per week to get a better version of the zenith weapon which only applies to some weapons. So I don't get the sarcasm.

also, people need to quit with the idea of "oh if the content doesnt get nerfed then new players will get stuck"

no, they wont. its common practice for players to join groups for relic clears or dungeon clears long after they have in fact cleared the content themselves. i join PF groups almost daily just to help out completely random strangers on content like titan HM and ak and i havent needed any thing from there in months.

if people get stuck on content its not cuz the content is too hard its because they lack the drive to complete the content. make friends, practice, gear up. do the things you are supposed to do in an RPG to clear content, stop crying for free loot and hand outs

this hand-holding care bear mentality has got to go

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

The EX primals themselves don't even give gear that is best in slot. You need to kill all 3 per week to get a better version of the zenith weapon which only applies to some weapons. So I don't get the sarcasm.

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its not about the loot, its about the experience. if people have a hard time clearing titan x they have no business moving on to harder tiered content. how does this not make sense??? personally, i dont want to raid levi x and coil 6-9 with people that could barely get thru titan hm and coil 1-5

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Originally Posted by Kuponutz

Do you study your ass off for a test, get an A and then are really happy for the people who stayed out drinking all night and got Bs and As from the curve? Probably not, you worked harder, right?

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This is entirely the point. I don't care what other people do. They pay to play the game just as I do and can complete it however they would like.

Why does it matter to you? Why do you care? Why are you disappointed in nerfs to content you have already beaten? You say it's not an epeen thing so I'm confused to what your hang-up is...

I'm disappointed by the nerfs to AK. I really like that dungeon, but they've torn it to pieces removing basically all the remotely interesting mechanics. It's honestly not much harder than some of the pre-50 dungeons as is (and significantly easier than some of them as you gear up) and didn't need to be nerfed to oblivion.

If players seriously can't clear it, I would have preferred an Echo buff that only stacks if you're doing it for the first time or something. The way they've done it basically deprives new players of the opportunity to experience the dungeon as it was originally designed.

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Originally Posted by alhandra

EX primals have barely been out 3 months, at this point they might as well just release leviathan x with the buff too, wtf is the point in releasing in unbuffed at all? f**k it, echo buffs should just be on all content the moment its released, if people dont like it they can just click it off. seems legit

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EX Primals are going to be as hard next week as they are today. The echo buff won't even exist until mid april, and then it'll be a measly +5% for Extremes. Maybe in a few months, with the full 25% echo buff, the fights might actually be easier for people who are having a hard time now. But don't act like they are being trivialized 3 months after they came out, because they aren't.

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Originally Posted by eagledorf

I'm disappointed by the nerfs to AK. I really like that dungeon, but they've torn it to pieces removing basically all the remotely interesting mechanics. It's honestly not much harder than some of the pre-50 dungeons as is (and significantly easier than some of them as you gear up) and didn't need to be nerfed to oblivion.

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I actually liked it in it's original form but it was more than some people could handle, at least in my own experience. That was why I was ok with the first hit to it's difficulty. It actually made it fun for me to run through. Making it any easier though...well, it is a bit disappointing.

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Originally Posted by KerenRhys

For the nerf of AK, you have to remember that DL stuff won't be buyable anymore. It will be drops from the new dungeons. So, people won't be able to farm Castrum/Praetorium to buy DL before they go to AK.
And for groups of new people, with only basic AF and 35-45 jewelry, yes, AK, as it stands can be hard.

Sure, those people could farm Castrum/Praetorium ad nauseam to obtain myth tomes, but I suppose they won't give 300 each for random main scenario, so they'd have to do more of them to stuff themselves. SE is nerfing AK so that these people will have 4 dungeons to run to begin acquiring "HL" stuff instead of 3.

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This is actually the first sensible argument I've heard all day.

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Originally Posted by alhandra

its not about the loot, its about the experience. if people have a hard time clearing titan x they have no business moving on to harder tiered content. how does this not make sense??? personally, i dont want to raid levi x and coil 6-9 with people that could barely get thru titan hm and coil 1-5

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You are talking as if you would go Titan EX with DF... I doubt so!
I guess you have your static, so stay there, nothing changes for you...

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Originally Posted by Gesser

Turn. Echo. Off.

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No.echo.in.fates.or.AK.

Also, congratulations for managing to completely miss the point.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

EX Primals are going to be as hard next week as they are today. The echo buff won't even exist until mid april, and then it'll be a measly +5% for Extremes. Maybe in a few months, with the full 25% echo buff, the fights might actually be easier for people who are having a hard time now. But don't act like they are being trivialized 3 months after they came out, because they aren't.

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if they will be so inconsequential then why add them at all? why not just let people get better over time, if it takes a person 3 months to clear something then they should be a better player at the end of it right? we should encourage people to become players, at this rate there is no motivation for a person to really buckle down and learn mechanics, they can just wait it out

maybe im just oldschool, but i would rather see players get better and help themselves through content that is hard, rather than get buffs scripted into the fight to make it easier for them

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

The EX primals themselves don't even give gear that is best in slot. You need to kill all 3 per week to get a better version of the zenith weapon which only applies to some weapons. So I don't get the sarcasm.

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Depending on the piece a LOT of primal gear IS BIS. Caster earrings for example. Not going to go through all of them.

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Originally Posted by alhandra

also, people need to quit with the idea of "oh if the content doesnt get nerfed then new players will get stuck"

no, they wont. its common practice for players to join groups for relic clears or dungeon clears long after they have in fact cleared the content themselves. i join PF groups almost daily just to help out completely random strangers on content like titan HM and ak and i havent needed any thing from there in months.

if people get stuck on content its not cuz the content is too hard its because they lack the drive to complete the content. make friends, practice, gear up. do the things you are supposed to do in an RPG to clear content, stop crying for free loot and hand outs

this hand-holding care bear mentality has got to go

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Will you marry me? (just don't tell my husband ;p)

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Originally Posted by Gormogon

The EX primals themselves don't even give gear that is best in slot. You need to kill all 3 per week to get a better version of the zenith weapon which only applies to some weapons. So I don't get the sarcasm.

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Who gives a flying squirrel's ass about gear?! This is about enjoying a challenge. That's the whole damn point! The reason we have this mess is because of all you people going "wah wah it's too haaard I want my geeeear and I want it nooooow!"

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

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Sadly most of the newer generation of MMO players are not concerned about enjoying a challenge. They want gear in the fastest, most efficient way they can possibly get it. It's all about the numbers and nothing else. I don't raid (never really been big on it in any MMO I've played) but I do like a good challenge myself, even if it leaves me wanting to bang my head off a wall lol That said, I also don't mind them nerfing "old" content as it will allow me to enjoy some of it without as much hassle. I do understand why some people are unhappy with this change, though.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

EX Primals are going to be as hard next week as they are today. The echo buff won't even exist until mid april, and then it'll be a measly +5% for Extremes. Maybe in a few months, with the full 25% echo buff, the fights might actually be easier for people who are having a hard time now. But don't act like they are being trivialized 3 months after they came out, because they aren't.

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you're wrong on this. Only Coil will have a timed buff. Primals will have a "live 3 mins then wipe to get" buff stackable up to 5 times (even Ex)

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

you're wrong on this. Only Coil will have a timed buff. Primals will have a "live 3 mins then wipe to get" buff stackable up to 5 times (even Ex)

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Players will now receive the power of the Echo in the event all party members are incapacitated during certain trials.
Requirement
Players are incapacitated after having battled enemies for a certain period of time.
Echo Effect
Increased HP, attack power, and healing potency.

For the following duties and trials, each stack of the Echo will raise attributes by 10% up to a maximum of 50%. However, players will only receive the Echo after having battled enemies for three minutes prior to being incapacitated.

The Bowl of Embers (Hard) / The Howling Eye (Hard) / The Navel (Hard) / Thornmarch (Hard) / A Relic Reborn: The Chimera / A Relic Reborn: The Hydra

For the following duties and trials, each stack of the Echo will raise attributes by 5% up to a maximum of 25%. However, players will only receive the Echo after having battled enemies for three minutes prior to being incapacitated.

The Minstrel's Ballad: Ultima's Bane/The Howling Eye (Extreme)/The Navel (Extreme)/The Bowl of Embers (Extreme)

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They all start low and are increased incrementally over time, and all require you to wipe first to get it.