Men in Dresses

You have the right to be offended, but not the right to stop someone else from offending you. Thems the rules.

Now, if they add an option so you can hide from the realities of the world around you then great. I'd be happy for you.

We already do: the vanya robe.

Though I do wonder if they'll pull an ff7 and have a quest where we must put on a fancy dress to infiltrate something.

The right to stop others from offending you stops at your front door. Learn to live with it. You'll be a better person.

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Originally Posted by Taruranto

Only if I can get an option to filler out people who play cat-girls.

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in the defense of men! (me) who play car girls (me) let the men and women (some of you) who play men (some of you) wear what they will, dresses, skirts, tights, you name it!

I support this.

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Originally Posted by AzucenaC

I'd say go for it. Male charters playing WHM's already have a dress as their AF gear....so why not daily clothes?

It wasn't until the 1700's that men started to adopt breeches and pants, and in some eastern cultures they still wear skirts.

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I never really understood why "gender equality" only went one way. Gals can wear pants but guys get funny looks for wearing skirts, after spending millennia in skirted attire...

Yes, I love a man in a dress! :drool:
http://prayingforoneday.files.wordpr...if?w=549&h=823

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Originally Posted by CUTS3R

No offence, but... Why would you want to wear proper dresses as a male other than for trolling / joking purposes?

Just asking.

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You are not that ignorant really. Honestly I can't tell if you're just being a bigot or just plain clueless.

Edit: my bad for not reading the whole thread. Now I know the answer. What a sad closed mind some people have :(

Would be sweet if they allowed males to wear vanity dresses, but I wouldn't get your hopes up. :(

Genuinely shocked at some of the responses here O_o what if they wanted to wear dresses? what if they wanted to be female toons? How is this disgusting and a problem? Should we be judging people by their toon choices now??
I'm a female playing a female character and I would loooove to wear some of the male gear in game. Am I a creepy person with tall people (elezen) fetish now? wtf?
And some sheltered life certain people are living for even considering in game toon choices "creepy fetishes" ..

Cross-dressing? YES PLEASE!

Visual Kei fangirls incoming!

Real men wear skirts. ;)

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Originally Posted by IzumiRaito

Visual Kei fangirls incoming!

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Pfft no FFXIV doesn't have enough glam gear for that. Looking like little house on the prairie school teacher man roe tho'..
I am behind this 5000%.

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Originally Posted by CUTS3R

No offence, but... Why would you want to wear proper dresses as a male other than for trolling / joking purposes?

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Plenty of guys like to wear dresses and skirts. It's just clothing.

I agree with the OP - no gender restrictions on gear!

See some of what I see here is whats wrong with this community. So you want to wear a dress, I really don't care. What some seem to be wanting is "equality" in their personal expression when it comes to their toons. I don't see it happening as you are basically asking them to change how they saw Eorzea.

Granted there might be things that go on we don't know about :p In the end this is Final Fantasy, though a WoWified one at that. This isn't one of those other games where they let you cross dress.

The more and more demands some make on the developers the less this game is a Final Fantasy.

It's quite an easy reason as to why the developers wouldn't design dresses for men.

It's socially acceptable in real-life for women to wear mens clothing, simply because it works (there was a time when this didn't, but unless you're 70-120 years old this won't apply).

http://floraisonfleur.files.wordpres...ns-women-3.jpg

On topic, it's still not socially acceptable for men to wear womens clothing. You simply do-not see it on a day to day basis. Men don't wear cocktail dresses, stiletto hells or prepare their hair in a bun.

http://www.boxing360.com/wp-content/...04/pf-0829.jpg
http://www.graziadaily.co.uk/pub/21p..._AW13_0470.jpg

The closest thing I can find to men wearing dresses (that would be considered close to normal/casual wear) is high-fashion.

As someone who lives in the centre of London, I have never encountered any men wearing dresses apart from a small group of drag-queens who appeared to be walking home from a performance.

I'm not being trans-phobic, homo-phobic, style-phobic, DO NOT MISTAKE ME ON THIS.
This is just a simple fact, that no-one would look twice if a woman wore mens clothing, but clearly this isn't an option for men.


Why does all that babble you just said even matter?

The development team (unless they're in a funny mood), simply won't do it. The development team try to consider the following when designing "What real life restrictions can be applied to what we are making?"

Eye Colour Change (This wasn't offered in the Aesthetician originally because of "Real Life Considerations", you can dye your hair but not your eyes (later revised by Yoshi when eye-contacts were discussed as a possibility)).

Metalic Dyes (When a Dye was applied to anything the shine would fade as if it had actually been painted, another "Real Life Consideration".


You simply won't find the development team doing it, unless there's a good reason. And "But muh gender equality" isn't going to cut the cake.
I'm not being rude, I'm being realistic.

I can understand this won't be a popular opinion or outlook, but "Come at me".

P.S.

Closest you're probably going to get is a kilt.

http://kiltmakers.co.uk/blog/wp-cont.../greatkilt.jpg


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Originally Posted by Llyr

I agree. Men wearing dresses is an un-Final Fantasy as it gets.

http://www.vintagevideogamer.net/wp-...2/04/dress.jpg

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In a comedic setting, yes. I think it's perfect it can be truly entertaining.

Any other setting just...doesn't seem to fit. Having men standing around wearing dresses just doesn't fit into the normal brand of society yet.

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Originally Posted by Wulfyn

See some of what I see here is whats wrong with this community. So you want to wear a dress, I really don't care. What some seem to be wanting is "equality" in their personal expression when it comes to their toons. I don't see it happening as you are basically asking them to change how they saw Eorzea.

Granted there might be things that go on we don't know about :p In the end this is Final Fantasy, though a WoWified one at that. This isn't one of those other games where they let you cross dress.

The more and more demands some make on the developers the less this game is a Final Fantasy.

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I agree. Men wearing dresses is an un-Final Fantasy as it gets.

http://www.vintagevideogamer.net/wp-...2/04/dress.jpg

I would rather they work on more important things than get tied up with minor things. LBGT and crossdressing I don't think was on their minds. Perhaps they could add Hyur kilts? Could always roll a Roe female and just do a bad job on the makeup so it looks like a guy dragging or cross dressing.

No offense but I have seen some ugly Roe females.

(Oh god totes gunna be that girl right now)

There is actually quite a bit of "fashion" that was designed by men for men that is traditional seen as "woman" clothing now. So it's kinda a meh argument.
But at same time I still see where some people are coming from. I guess Final Fantasy might not want to be seen as "That game" when it comes to clothing options but at the same time it's 2014.. some things are just a little bit more accepted now. Honest what is the harm with a man in a bonnet.

I think it'd be pretty cool. However, I think this may be valid complaint depending on the circumstances:

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Originally Posted by Wulfyn

I don't see it happening as you are basically asking them to change how they saw Eorzea.

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But who knows, maybe the Eorzeans are cool with it.

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Originally Posted by Mintyflo

(Oh god totes gunna be that girl right now)

There is actually quite a bit of "fashion" that was designed by men for men that is traditional seen as "woman" clothing now. So it's kinda a meh argument.
But at same time I still see where some people are coming from. I guess Final Fantasy might not want to be seen as "That game" when it comes to clothing options but at the same time it's 2014.. some things are just a little bit more accepted now. Honest what is the harm with a man in a bonnet.

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Yes it's 2014.

Give me ANY city in the world that has a base-average, even a small minority of men who wear womens clothes on a regular basis.
Because that would be the developers consideration.

(Not to mention we're sitting in a loose Renaissance Fantasy Era)

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Originally Posted by Shioban

Yes it's 2014.

Give me ANY city in the world that has a base-average, even a small minority of men who wear womens clothes on a regular basis.
Because that would be the developers consideration.

(Not to mention we're sitting in a loose Renaissance Fantasy Era)

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I was born and raised in NYC I saw this more often then you think. I am talking men outlandish avant garde runway pieces outside just walking. No one even did a double take. (Well maybe tourists)
Actually once I saw a man walking in a full bridal gown it was pretty.

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Originally Posted by Shioban

Give me ANY city in the world that has a base-average, even a small minority of men who wear womens clothes on a regular basis.
Because that would be the developers consideration.

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I invite you to come to my home city Amsterdam.
I'm fairly sure even a single day would be enough.

It doesn't bother me in real life if a guy decides he wants to wear a dress, that's his choice. I just don't think it is that important of an issue when it comes to the world of Final Fantasy.

I think what bothers some is when others of different lifestyles push what they want into a issue in a universe where the subject never existed. Atleast to my knowledge as I never had played any of the newer FF games.

I guess for example the demand for more mounts. Some want more mounts though personally I think it should have just been chocobos. Chocobos are Final Fantasy to me and that's all there ever was. Since there are other mounts, some being from CE's, vet rewards, quest reward, people want more different mounts now. To me that takes away from the game a bit.

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Originally Posted by Mintyflo

I was born and raised in NYC I saw this more often then you think. I am talking men outlandish avant garde runway pieces outside just walking. No one even did a double take. (Well maybe tourists)
Actually once I saw a man walking in a full bridal gown it was pretty.

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Originally Posted by Shirai

I invite you to come to my home city Amsterdam.
I'm fairly sure even a single day would be enough.

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(Never seen anything of the sort in Amsterdam that i'd consider even base minority sorry, must've been the wrong time of day/area) Unless there's a district dedicated to it that I missed out on.

As for NYC! This doesn't surprise me, a very large city, many culutural nuances collide there.
If you really want to be whoever you want to be, NYC is a golden place, sadly I wouldn't use it as a moniker for the rest of the population.

However! Make sure to cite your sources.

And hope that the developers account for NYC and Amsterdam. The two centres of the universe.

Want dress?
Play as female

Simple right?

For me I have level 50 male and female (for Lightning cloth)

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Originally Posted by Shioban

(Never seen anything of the sort in Amsterdam that i'd consider even base minority sorry, must've been the wrong time of day/area) Unless there's a district dedicated to it that I missed out on.

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I do admit that the most concentrated area is the Red Light District, there are several dedicated bars and clubs around there.
It isn't concentrated to just that area however, people like that are all over town. I do have to say that you'll have to take a good look though, a lot of them are so well dressed and made up that you won't even recognize them as such until they talk.

I... I just want to play video games.

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...et-anymore.jpg

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Originally Posted by Shioban

Yes it's 2014.

Give me ANY city in the world that has a base-average, even a small minority of men who wear womens clothes on a regular basis.
Because that would be the developers consideration.

(Not to mention we're sitting in a loose Renaissance Fantasy Era)

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Bangkok. They are everywhere.

Please SE never EVER do this.

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Originally Posted by Shioban

Yes it's 2014.

Give me ANY city in the world that has a base-average, even a small minority of men who wear womens clothes on a regular basis.
Because that would be the developers consideration.

(Not to mention we're sitting in a loose Renaissance Fantasy Era)

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So you are saying that women should ONLY wear dresses ever in this game? Huh?No?

I'm glad I'm not the one living with such conflicting double standards in my head =)
Your vision of history seems very pick and choose like that of another crazybonkers extremist group I can think of...

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Originally Posted by Seif

So you are saying that women should ONLY wear dresses ever in this game? Huh?No?

I'm glad I'm not the one living with such conflicting double standards in my head =)
Your vision of history seems very pick and choose like that of another crazybonkers extremist group I can think of...

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At no point did I EVER say "Only women should wear dresses".


And what double standards? Please do point it out in Black and White before throwing baseless conjecture at me.
Really, I want to know. Don't hesitate to say it in plain English to me.

All I said was truth. During the Renaissance Era men did not wear womens clothing, and women did not wear mens clothing.
However in the modern world women wear mens clothing, yet men still don't wear womens clothing as a norm. THIS IS A FACT, NOT AN OPINION.

The developers would always take into consideration the modern world around them as a norm as well as the era they're basing the game off before anything else was even considered. Some modern themes are added into Eorzea that fit into its context. (Swimsuits, Insutrial Technology, Modern-Day Language/Communication Styles).


I'd actually like to Ammend the "Anywhere in the world", the player base for the game is mainly in the western world, therefore 'Western Standards' is what I was hinting at.





I can understand this was never going to be a popular opinion. But comparing my basic-facts to a religious organisation or the KKK is VERY extreme or "Die CIS scum" because I didn't dance to your tune is frankly down-right insulting.


You're clearly miss interpreting what I said for the sake of it here, and taking it as a personal attack.
SIMPLY because I didn't go "Yeah you go! Wooo! Add it! xoxox!"

Please actually read this very carefully as a mature adult for a moment.

I stated the fact that almost the entirety of your average male populus in the world do-not-wear-dresses in a modern western society or even more importantly during the Early Renaissance era which this game seems to be placed thematically.

And following on this point as to why the developers wouldn't even have considered making a male version of the dresses. These are developers who live in modern-day Japan, they are aware these things exist, and that's what people enjoy. But as with a lot of things people enjoy it's still a very small batch of people.

You as a developer have to consider "Would adding this cause more harm that good"?

"But it wouldn't affect other people if they didn't want to do it!?!"

Wrong. If people can see it, it affects them. If I stand naked outside someone's house, it's going to bother them.
Applying the "It won't bother other people if I do it, I just want the option for equality!" logic, doesn't apply to every situation.


Please think of this logically from a developers point-of-view. If they feel it would be a fun addition that the majority of players would agree with, have a good time, a laugh and long-term enjoyment out of it, then they would add it. Sensitive subjects can be quite damaging in terms of the media. It would take one bad addition (not saying this is a major one) to have a bad media knock-on effect. Sensitive subjects and controversial additions are always carefully considerer (As Yoshida himself said)



You can kick and scream all you want.
You can call me bigoted.
You can call me whatever you want.
You can deny the basic facts I've pointed out.

But in the end I'm only trying to point out why they probably won't do it without good reason.


TL;DR

Go back and read it. Or if you're really stubborn;

Stop trying to make what I typed as something personal. Using "Double Standards" because I didn't agree with your opinion is a complete misuse of the term "Double Standards".

If your argument is basically "not many men wear dresses in real life", well, last time I checked there weren't many cat people, monsters or people throwing fireballs around in real life either.

As much as I'd like a big male Roe in a pink frilly dress, I can't see this actually happening. Ever. People in this thread have already (patiently) explained why.

I see it happening. The naysayers are fools if they think other very popular games do not already do this. Men in World of warcraft can put on dresses. You dont see wow get bashed up because of this. Oh and It was a feature within the game since it came out. Plus we do have a few dresses already. There are a kilt or 2 and skirts. The chest piece of light looks like a darn dress in its own way. So yep if other games do it and its not even thought of, a few extra tight ass people here need to loosen up and stop making dimonds every time the fidget and reply to a thread.

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Originally Posted by BearGrylls

If your argument is basically "not many men wear dresses in real life", well, last time I checked there weren't many cat people, monsters or people throwing fireballs around in real life either.

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Yet again, missing the point.

There's a balance of "Realism vs. Fantasy". Varying races in fantasy settings is a normal occurance (Elves, Orcs, Beastmen).
Men in dresses isn't, even in an average fantasy setting now that I think about it.

You can't compare the two, that's absurd.

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Originally Posted by Nuinn

As much as I'd like a big male Roe in a pink frilly dress, I can't see this actually happening. Ever. People in this thread have already (patiently) explained why.

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But sadly the "I'm being oppressed, don't you oppress me" will just get thrown in the faces of anyone who disagrees or provides any basic reasoning as to why. (Even if it's not an opinion that was posted)

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Originally Posted by Shadowzanon

I see it happening. The naysayers are fools if they think other very popular games do not already do this. Men in World of warcraft can put on dresses. You dont see wow get bashed up because of this. Oh and It was a feature within the game since it came out. Plus we do have a few dresses already. There are a kilt or 2 and skirts. The chest piece of light looks like a darn dress in its own way. So yep if other games do it and its not even thought of, a few extra tight ass people here need to loosen up and stop making dimonds every time the fidget and reply to a thread.

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I already pointed out kilts and skirts in context are normal actually (even in real-life) and a Renaissance setting.
Men wearing "Corset Style Bodice Chemise Skirts" is not. The style of clothing the OP is suggestion is a WORLD apart from a kilt or a small skirt attached to the bottom of a body-piece.

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Originally Posted by Shadowzanon

Men in World of warcraft can put on dresses. You dont see wow get bashed up because of this. Oh and It was a feature within the game since it came out.

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Nope, those are robes. What the OP is requesting is a completely different ball game here and you'd be a fool to think otherwise.
(As for the WoW gear go back and have another look, they're all robes to fit the low-poly design of the game which restricts gear design)

If however you can find a clearly female dress that has been fitted for a male character, I'll eat my hat. Okay?

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Originally Posted by Shadowzanon

The chest piece of light looks like a darn dress in its own way. So yep if other games do it and its not even thought of, a few extra tight ass people here need to loosen up and stop making dimonds every time the fidget and reply to a thread.

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That's the warrior of light armour set based off the original warrior of light, I wouldn't call it a dress because of the slightly draping cloth.
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...r_of_Light.png

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Originally Posted by Shadowzanon

, a few extra tight ass people here need to loosen up and stop making dimonds every time the fidget and reply to a thread.

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Calm down.

Some people pointed out the reason why the developers wouldn't add it, other simply expressed that they didn't want it.
They have JUST as much right to express that they don't want it, as much as you do in requesting it.

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Originally Posted by Shadowzanon

I see it happening. The naysayers are fools if they think other very popular games do not already do this. Men in World of warcraft can put on dresses. You dont see wow get bashed up because of this. Oh and It was a feature within the game since it came out. Plus we do have a few dresses already. There are a kilt or 2 and skirts. The chest piece of light looks like a darn dress in its own way. So yep if other games do it and its not even thought of, a few extra tight ass people here need to loosen up and stop making dimonds every time the fidget and reply to a thread.

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Not with the neckline as it is on those screenshots. Skirt, kilt, tunic, robe, coat =/= dress/frock/gown. Another point missed is that it's not about being tight-assed, at all.

To play both sides of this argument... I'm gay, have several trans (to varying degrees) friends, and many who do drag weekly if not more often; I see no problem with dresses for men. The above poster is also correct that it is already done.

However, I also see the world around me, and putting something so controversial to so many into the game is not the most sound marketing strategy. I could care less if the devs do or do not support gender equality, gay rights, trans rights, etc; the point is, the majority of the world's population would double-take, if not balk, at a man in a dress. To make a specific effort to "neutralize" clothing would be a controversial move. If they later add dresses that just happen to show the same models on men, great! I think that's what WoW did. I am not a real WoW vet, having only played to max level once or twice, but I believe that the clothes with gender-neutral models (as opposed to a more robe-like male appearance) were all event items, i.e. from Easter, or general vanity items, i.e. wedding dresses.

This topic started out about event dresses--which I support--but has kind of transformed into a general "LET US WEAR ALL CLOTHING WITH THE SAME MODELS" thread. I support the former, and would like to live in a world where the latter is acceptable, it isn't.

Also, I think most truly transgender players have simply created a character of the gender with which they (best) identify. So please, for their sake, don't make this an issue of their rights where it's more about men wanting to do drag. Again, there's no problem with drag, but I think we can all agree that it's hardly the most pressing issue in XIV.

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Originally Posted by Shioban

I'd actually like to Ammend the "Anywhere in the world", the player base for the game is mainly in the western world, therefore 'Western Standards' is what I was hinting at.

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I don't want to pick your post apart, but you might want to nullify your ammendment[sic]. That statement couldn't be more wrong unless Japan happened to shift a hemisphere or two while I wasn't looking.

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Originally Posted by Shioban

Derp.

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In wow there are many crafted dresses including a wedding dress that both male and females can use, there are tons of them and nope they are not robes, kilts ect.
http://www.wowwiki.com/Category:Dresses there is no gender lock for these dresses. No one complained about them and many have been around since 2004.

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Originally Posted by Shioban

Men wearing "Corset Style Bodice Chemise Skirts" is not. The style of clothing the OP is suggestion is a WORLD apart from a kilt or a small skirt attached to the bottom of a body-piece.

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Male characters in WoW can wear the Lovely Dress, which is decidedly "feminine" in design.