Guildleves Reform info up

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

Of course they are, stop being optimistic.

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There's a difference between being blindly optimistic and realistic.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

Quite true. But you don't really think the 1.18 dungeons will be the only new content released for the rest of the game's existence, do you?

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No it won't be, but if they screw up party play in this update then we are going to be screwed out of party play for months until they release 1.19 or another patch to fix the fact that they screwed up party play. I kind of wish we could get some dev info on whether or not they will be announcing anything for party leveling and party play aside from dungeons which last 60 minutes and can only be done once every however many hours/days, because at this point they are making themselves, once again, look like they have no business developing an mmo, and have no idea what they are doing.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

considering he wrote it in the guild mark section...yeah mistranslation

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I'm not 100% convinced, do we have someone that can check the japanese post to see what it says there?

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Originally Posted by Req

No it won't be, but if they screw up party play in this update then we are going to be screwed out of party play for months until they release 1.19 or another patch to fix the fact that they screwed up party play. I kind of wish we could get some dev info on whether or not they will be announcing anything for party leveling and party play aside from dungeons which last 60 minutes and can only be done once every however many hours/days, because at this point they are making themselves, once again, look like they have no business developing an mmo, and have no idea what they are doing.

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You have the right of it, unfortunately. I believe the community voted for more frequent but smaller updates over infrequent large updates. Thus far what we've gotten is infrequent small updates.

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Originally Posted by TheVedis

considering he wrote it in the guild mark section...yeah mistranslation

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It's talking about the distinction between Disciples of War/Magic and Disciples of the Hand, and Disciples of the Land.

It means that you can't complete a battle leve as a gatherer and expect to get an SP reward for your gathering class.

How would you complete a battle leve as a gathering class anyway?

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Originally Posted by Xellotath

How would you complete a battle leve as a gathering class anyway?

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Complete the leve

Change to DoW

Claim bonus SP.

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Originally Posted by Xellotath

How would you complete a battle leve as a gathering class anyway?

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Join a party

Be a miner while everyone else kills stuff

???

PROFIT

Lol, you can't do either of those things as it exists currently (at least on the leves that grant mark rewards) so i'm not sure why he felt the need to clarify that you won't be able to do it after the patch, if that's what is meant.

also partial rewards probably means if you try to change your class at the end of the leve, you may get less of the reward, much like when they count your kills when you do a leve as a different class than when you are getting marks.

As for those saying nerfing group play, i dont know... from what they say this will probably have the opposite effect. lowering base SP gains and giving you SP on completion, taking into considertation factors like difficulty, time to complete, etc seems to be rewarding party play more than solo. It means that beating a quest faster gives more sp (group advantage) and on a higher difficulty (group advantage) and they are also taking out the 4 link limit (bigger group bonus)

sooo uhh..... what about this reform is supposed to help solo players again?

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Originally Posted by Xellotath

Lol, you can't do either of those things as it exists currently so i'm not sure why he felt the need to clarify that you won't be able to do it after the patch, if that's what he's meaning.

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yeah, but before they didnt give you the reward on completion. He is clarifying that just because you get reward on completion doesnt mean you can just switch classes before turning it in for a large benefit.
partial participation bonus, and DoW only hint to this

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Originally Posted by Physic

sooo uhh..... what about this reform is supposed to help solo players again?

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It doesn't require you to be in a party (leve-linking) for the very best SP rewards.

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Originally Posted by Xellotath

Lol, you can't do either of those things as it exists currently (at least on the leves that grant mark rewards) so i'm not sure why he felt the need to clarify that you won't be able to do it after the patch, if that's what is meant.

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It could very well be possible with the way the system changes, which they then clarified would not be the case.

Glad to see the change from the fail-leve standard now.

People will always take the route of least resistance, and I hope this is learnt going forward with the development.

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Originally Posted by Physic

also partial rewards probably means if you try to change your class at the end of the leve, you may get less of the reward, much like when they count your kills when you do a leve as a different class than when you are getting marks.

As for those saying nerfing group play, i dont know... from what they say this will probably have the opposite effect. lowering base SP gains and giving you SP on completion, taking into considertation factors like difficulty, time to complete, etc seems to be rewarding party play more than solo. It means that beating a quest faster gives more sp (group advantage) and on a higher difficulty (group advantage) and they are also taking out the 4 link limit (bigger group bonus)

sooo uhh..... what about this reform is supposed to help solo players again?

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the fact that they can get that sp bonus at the end and not rely 100% on the mob sp like they do now, which will factor in alot more as you surpass the 1/2 star limit, not everyone can solo that well after all

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

Yoshi-P said in Letter IX or something that hubs will probably be held off until 1.19. Did I miss something o.o?

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The mob cities are being held off until 1.19, but 1.18 should bring in the quest hubs.

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

Yoshi-P said in Letter IX or something that hubs will probably be held off until 1.19. Did I miss something o.o?

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He means the beastmen outposts for 1.19

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

It doesn't require you to be in a party (leve-linking) for the very best SP rewards.

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this does help soloing a bit, i think, but the speed, rank difficulty, and leve linking limit going up will still mean the best sp will come from a leve linked high difficulty smashing of monsters.

but i guess it will come down to how much they boost the sp for difficulty/speed
and maybe also if they give everyone the sp, or divide the total SP amongst the party.

I think, depending on how much you are awarded, this will also add some interesting challenge to leves. Once again a reason to fight harder monsters, in leves anyhow.

but since this type of difficulty bonus doesnt exist in open world, i wonder if open world will still be unable to compete.

Hope all the cry baby's are happy there goes all the good ways of getting SP

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Originally Posted by Physic

but since this type of difficulty bonus doesnt exist in open world, i wonder if open world will still be unable to compete.

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Guildleves are open world...

Anyway, one can only hope it's still the case.

This should help you guys figure things out.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

Guildleves are open world...

Anyway, one can only hope it's still the case.

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well, non instanced/guild leve i mean. Because if guild leves arent going to be the core, they have to make open world/non instanced compete in terms of challenge, sp gains and interestingness, or make some new content around that.
And honestly even if dungeons give good sp, if they are 60 minutes, the game will still be the type that encourages you not to play. do leves, do dungeon. stop playing.

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

Yoshi-P said in Letter IX or something that hubs will probably be held off until 1.19. Did I miss something o.o?

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Beast tribe quest hubs are 1.19, regular region ones were said to be 1.18
But as always, we'll see

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Originally Posted by Xellotath

Lol, you can't do either of those things as it exists currently (at least on the leves that grant mark rewards) so i'm not sure why he felt the need to clarify that you won't be able to do it after the patch, if that's what is meant.

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Because leves have never given bonus SP at the end...
Like the guild tasks.. You get bonus SP for whatever class you're on when you turn in the required items... but with guildleves, if you're not DoW/DoM when you complete, then you don't get the bonus SP rewarded at the end as opposed to SP from killing MOBs which has always been battle classes only

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Originally Posted by UllrHellfire

Hope all the cry baby's are happy there goes all the good ways of getting SP

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We can't really say that until we see how much the SP bonus will be and how much it is affected by how well you perform during the leve

So how come in all the Guildleve adjustments they've never tried to make them more...FUN? Mob AI really needs to be improved to make guildleves and playing this game in general more fun. But how about adding bosses to the end of some guildleves, or having some leves specifically for fighting popped NMs?

I really wish guildleves were more like ENMs in FFXI. Those were really fun objective based quests and had great boss fights at the end. They were always fun and very rewarding, I couldn't wait for the timer to be up to do them again with my friends.

Right now I log on from time to time to try to play the game...I start a guildleve and I have to force myself to finish it and I don't feel any satisfaction when I complete it.

Hopefully now that guildleves are officially recognized as solo content they'll start recognizing that end-game NM encounters shouldn't be solo content :rolleyes:

Edit - At least we might start seeing people "animating" into Gridania now

"Bonus skill points granted during synthesis will be abolished. Instead, skill points will appear as a reward for completing leve objectives."

So I dont get SP per synth now, only at the end if I complete it? and If I dont did I just waste my time?

"Similarly, completing a regional levequest as any class other than those recommended will yield no skill points."

So what if I'm not currently leveling that class, so because its offered i've been been basically screwed out of a leve.... Awesome job...

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Originally Posted by Laike

"Bonus skill points granted during synthesis will be abolished. Instead, skill points will appear as a reward for completing leve objectives."

So I dont get SP per synth now, only at the end if I complete it? and If I dont did I just waste my time?

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No, you get normal SP per synth, as though you were crafting it regularly. Instead of getting BONUS points since you're crafting it as part of a levequest, you will instead get those points as a reward for completing it. If you fail the leve, you do not get the full bonus. You will still get an SP reward for partial completion.

According to what they're saying (if I'm understanding it), it will be the same amount of SP, it's just being given to you differently. The change is happening in order to discourage people from intentionally failing the leve.

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Originally Posted by Laike

"Similarly, completing a regional levequest as any class other than those recommended will yield no skill points."

So what if I'm not currently leveling that class, so because its offered i've been been basically screwed out of a leve.... Awesome job...

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You're reading too much into it. What they mean is if you won't get skill points if you complete a levequest that is recommended for Disciples of War or Magic if your current class is a Disciple of Land or Hand. Basically, it will be no different than it is now. They just need to add this statement so people understand that you won't be able to level your Miner doing battlecraft leves.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

No, you get normal SP per synth, as though you were crafting it regularly. Instead of getting BONUS points since you're crafting it as part of a levequest, you will instead get those points as a reward for completing it. If you fail the leve, you do not get the full bonus. You will still get an SP reward for partial completion.

According to what they're saying (if I'm understanding it), it will be the same amount of SP, it's just being given to you differently. The change is happening in order to discourage people from intentionally failing the leve.

Thank you, I guess I didnt quite understand what they were talking about.


You're reading too much into it. What they mean is if you won't get skill points if you complete a levequest that is recommended for Disciples of War or Magic if your current class is a Disciple of Land or Hand. Basically, it will be no different than it is now. They just need to add this statement so people understand that you won't be able to level your Miner doing battlecraft leves.

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ah.. well really that should go without saying...

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"The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.".

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i like your signature Eekiki! :)

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Originally Posted by UllrHellfire

Hope all the cry baby's are happy there goes all the good ways of getting SP

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i think its more SE' approach (then the crybabies fault) to fix things:
"something works 90%" => people point this out => SE scraps it completely and replaces it with... nothing and will discuss the gap in the future"
i wonder what will happen if people point out a problem in a dungeon... They might scrap the dungeons as well...

I hope they have some surprises to offer (which i doubt, since they would point some of them out not to piss even more ppl off). There were a lot of things that needed work, balancing and tuning, but scrapping everything, i dunno... might just take forever and won't have the impact they are hoping for.

The only thing that a lot of people are complaining about ALL THE TIME (for a lot of valid reasons) are the market wards. So far the thing that has most flaws, etc. etc (don't wanna even start) they keep alive for some weird reason.

Hard to understand.

bump......................

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Originally Posted by bahley

I'm not really liking this part. I'm trying to level mainly conjurer right now so if I get a leve with marks for a class I don't really care about, I still do it as a conjurer and just take 0 marks but still get all the SP. Basically with this new system I will be forced to either level the class I really don't want to, or skip that leve completely.

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And thats why they are trying to make field parties and dungeon parties viable sources of exp, even more so then leves. Honestly guildleves should've been for soloing in the first place and everything else for parties. That and they are trying to revamp the content within the leves as well as useful equipment actually being rewarded from them.

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Similarly, completing a regional levequest as any class other than those recommended will yield no skill points.

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Not sure I like the sound of that. So, if I do a 4-star Rank 20 regional leve as my 22 THM, but the "recommended" class was CON, I get jipped out of SP? I hope I'm reading that wrong.

Edit: Oh, they're probably talking about DoM/DoW recommendations. Nevermind.

Can't wait for 1.18 (and 1.19) One information a week for 1.18 right?... damn I wanted more info lol... what else SE hiding aside from all the stuff they already said...

I'm beting update 1.18 on Tuesday 7/12 - first day Rolling Stones had their first concert ever. But if earlier I'm happier :D

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Originally Posted by Ashthra

Not sure I like the sound of that. So, if I do a 4-star Rank 20 regional leve as my 22 THM, but the "recommended" class was CON, I get jipped out of SP? I hope I'm reading that wrong.

Edit: Oh, they're probably talking about DoM/DoW recommendations. Nevermind.

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You wont get taken either way, since the description will tell you whats recommended/works before you accept the leve.

I'd hope it would be the first week of July...well after the 4th.

This system seems to promote leve boosting from buddy keys. Unless you don't get the bonus SP if you dont have the leve, just helping out, which would the fk over the system for those who want to help? Why should I help if I in return get nothing.

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Originally Posted by viion

This system seems to promote leve boosting from buddy keys. Unless you don't get the bonus SP if you dont have the leve, just helping out, which would the fk over the system for those who want to help? Why should I help if I in return get nothing.

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you get SP from kills, but i do think just the psychology would make people not want to help unless they have the leve, but maybe thats for the best, people may actually use the party recruitment and search features they say they will add to link with people of similar levels with the same leves. maybe not eh well we ll see

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Originally Posted by viion

This system seems to promote leve boosting from buddy keys. Unless you don't get the bonus SP if you dont have the leve, just helping out, which would the fk over the system for those who want to help? Why should I help if I in return get nothing.

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Leves aiming now to solo content and content that only takes an hour at the most, when ever we dont have the time to during the week or weekend, there is no need for "help" anymore. For group stuff, you will be doing what ever they have planned. And if you still want to do leves with your friends from time to time, then you would still be rewarded, just not like before. Remember the SP bonus from linking is still there, it is just awarded now at the end of the leve as a reward for clearing it (Maybe not in the same quantities, but still Awarded).

I dont get how this is revolved around "Soloing" now.

It states they are decreasing the bonus you get from leve linking, but increasing the maximum links you can have, atm its 4 until SP bonus stops, now you need more?!?

How does that promote solo? Or even make it solo like content, if you need more people than before to be able to get the good SP.

So backwards, unless im missing something here.

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Originally Posted by viion

I dont get how this is revolved around "Soloing" now.

It states they are decreasing the bonus you get from leve linking, but increasing the maximum links you can have, atm its 4 until SP bonus stops, now you need more?!?

How does that promote solo? Or even make it solo like content, if you need more people than before to be able to get the good SP.

So backwards, unless im missing something here.

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No where does it say either leves will be EXCLUSIVELY for solo players. So what is the problem with increasing the links?