Abilities can't be used till animation ends.

I guess this could all be fixed if they changed the ability info tab from saying "Instant" to "Kinda-almost-instant." xD

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Originally Posted by Mikara

So, I got bored and decided to debunk this entire idea of "you can't interrupt animations at all". I was able to interrupt the animations of the following abilities: Straight shot, Heavy shot, Blood letter, Venom bite, Wind bite, Quelling strikes, Raging strikes, Blood for blood, Barrage, Hawks Eye, and Internal release. I was not able to interrupt Repelling shot (because the animation moves you away from the target) and Blunt arrow (because the animation is too quick to interrupt with the current invisible 1 second between abilities timer).

On another note, I didn't try any of my AoE abilities because WHO CARES, isn't 11 abilities enough to prove that this doesn't hold up anyways?

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You done this on Bard but animation canceling is how you get maximum DPS out of Dragoon. Just replying to add to your comment.

Mmmm, doesn't really bother me. "Characters having non-stop spasms" due to no animation lock will however.

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Originally Posted by Mikara

This game has no animation lock, it only has ability delay. Animation lock =/= ability delay, please use the correct term in the correct place.

FFXIV 1.2 had animation lock, you used an ability and you were LOCKED IN PLACE until the animation finished, you couldn't move, you couldn't use another ability. All you could do was hope and pray you were alive by the time it finished.

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No it does have animation lock. Dragoon Jump, being resurrected, many others. For the first 4 months of this game you could be killed while in resurrection animation lock.
IE: Oh I am being resurrected, oh look at that aoe that just spawned under me. I die. Rez please?

Also Yoshi used the term "animation lock" so there's that.

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With that said, however, we'd like to touch on a few of the changes we have planned, and to start off I'll talk about dragoon. We'll be reducing the cooldown timer of Power Surge by 30 seconds and increasing the damage of their standard three action combo. Also, Jump will be adjusted so that execution is quicker, animation lock is reduced, and landing point is changed. Overall DPS will be increased by approximately 10%, so burst damage will greatly increase.

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See this Producer live letter. Please learn your facts before attacking people.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...812-02-2013%29

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Originally Posted by Shioban

I dunno, anyone I've played with hasn't complained about this so I can't sympathise.

I've played countless MMOs and can't really see what the OPs pointing out. Unless I've jaded over time and gotten used to it.

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People have been complaining about this since at least Beta 3, if not alpha. While I was in the alpha I did not read the forums much until beta 3.

You call it potato, I call it vodka.

For you, this system may be "bad" and the pace of combat as too slow, but for me it's nice and the pace is just right.

Just saying, coming from the ATB-based FF games to this one, it feels about right in the pace imposed by the GCD and animation frame locks.

Been saying this since beta to the naysayers. By now I've played on every class/job in the game to give a slightly more informed opinion, too.

Makes it feel clunky for sure.

It's bad design really, instant abilities should be instant, there's no excuse at all no matter how much some people still want to pass it off as "skill", and no liking Final Fantasy doesn't instantly make it acceptable, it's as silly as when people were defending the exact same ability delay in TOR just because they liked Star Wars. It also has to do with the slow server response so that the servers don't get too "stressed", that's why you see stuff like a Lustrate and Benediction go off on someone with enough HP left and enough time to get saved by it and that person will still die. Hopefully it'll get fixed eventually and won't just keep getting passed off as another quirk or even a feature of the game.

It is a feature of the skill. Look at the spell holy. Do mobs take damage when the GCD finishes? No. Do they take damage when the cast finishes? No. They intentionally make skills only go into effect when their animation finishes so they can tune specific skills without affecting other skills by altering GCD or making them impractical by having you have to stand for 7 seconds in place to complete the cast. FYI, they changed the animation of holy in patch 2.1 to balance the skill (so you can use less in the same time frame) and this is an intentional way of balancing combat.

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Originally Posted by tymora

Mmmm, doesn't really bother me. "Characters having non-stop spasms" due to no animation lock will however.

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Same, it always gets me, the skill spam repeat animation looks pretty bad when I really think about it.
I guess its a matter of having gotten used to it that makes it seem normal.

But I'm all for a FFXIV to be a bit more responsive and smoother.
It can be better...

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Originally Posted by Moirear

Just saying, coming from the ATB-based FF games to this one, it feels about right in the pace imposed by the GCD and animation frame locks

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With 2.5sec GCD instead normal 1sec i think SE is trying to mimic old FF ATB system in here.

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Originally Posted by necrosis

I feel that anyone who says the "animation lock" is fine never played WHM and watched the benediction animation on a dead body.

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This, a hundred time this. I don't need to twirl to save my tank, I really don't.

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Originally Posted by Roris

It's bad design really, instant abilities should be instant, there's no excuse at all no matter how much some people still want to pass it off as "skill", and no liking Final Fantasy doesn't instantly make it acceptable, it's as silly as when people were defending the exact same ability delay in TOR just because they liked Star Wars. It also has to do with the slow server response so that the servers don't get too "stressed", that's why you see stuff like a Lustrate and Benediction go off on someone with enough HP left and enough time to get saved by it and that person will still die. Hopefully it'll get fixed eventually and won't just keep getting passed off as another quirk or even a feature of the game.

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They are. /thread

Except they aren't under all circumstances like they should be and pretending they are won't instantly make them so, thanks for the condescending /thread by the way, nice canned response.

You press the skill, they go off. Instantly. Yeah that is pretty much the definition of Instant Cast.

I broke my ps3 controller trying to get out my skills. That was my original Ps3 controller too R.I.P :(. You been with me through DCUO and Street Fighter IV. It's sad to see you go down because of FFXIV. Now I'm playing on a 10 dollar controller and it's hard to use.

Not really no, because like OP stated some animations still interrupt them so you can't use them even if it's for as little as 1 second thus why you get issues like stuns or silences not going off when they should because an animation from another skill is still playing, you really can't weave instant stuff as smoothly as you should at all times, which pretty much goes against the definition of instant unless you want to change it to "instant unless X animation is playing". Keep being condescending though I'm sure by pretending an issue doesn't exist it'll go away, next you'll probably blame it on the player's connection or PC or just say you've never experience it thus it doesn't affect you or even something silly like "well if it's a stun just don't use anything before it, problem solved", I get you must really love Final Fantasy but remarks like that just end up hurting the game causing issues like this to be ignored.

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Originally Posted by Lalivia

It's called spell weaving. Learn it. You cast them at the end of other spells so you can "weave" them in so by time the animation is finished so are the CDs of your other spells. Learn the game mechanics before making complaints.

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More like spell waiting, lots and lots of waiting

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Originally Posted by Roris

Dumb sentences.

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There isn't a problem since my Jumps and buffs go off INSTANTLY. I just know how to do animation canceling which it appears you do not. Even on Scholar my Lustrate goes off instantly. So yeah, they are instant.

If you have to do something else to cancel an animation just to get another instant skill to go off like it should in the first place then yeah they aren't instant, if they really were instant then you'd just be able to use them at any time without doing anything else and by just using the skill itself. Stuff like Brutal Swing and Steel Peek still won't go off instantly if you're in the middle of certain combos, they should be without any animation cancelling, this isn't a fighting game and pretending being able to do so just to bypass an issue that doesn't exist in other MMOs makes you super cool and pro is just plan silly. Thanks for admitting they aren't truly instant though, I've also noticed how buffs cancel some animations, still doesn't make them instant and being delusional about it won't help matters.

Instant abilities are not instant and it is annoying as crap. Hallowed Ground is a \\\\'maybe in 3 seconds the healer
Wont be able to heal me and ill be glad I hit that\\\\' Or for silence it isnt good ebough to hit it while they boss is casting you have to hit it and have the animation complete while they are still casting. Also even my rotation thats on cool down I hit 1, wait for cooldown to finish tap 2, hit it 5 times until 1 animations finishes oh it finally is starting to go. Not being able to iterrupt animations is even worse. Say turn 1 I hit the snake with flash the moment it is targetable (because the moment it hits the screen flash doesnt do anything), and rage of halone guess what a healer did something before the snake was even on the screen...so it has to slither all the way over the the healer swipe at it and then finally realise the tank is #1 on the hate list and come over to it. Its a clunky system and maybe not on the forums but plenty of people complain about it.

Alright, I'm going to break this down for you guys. As soon as you press the button on an instant skill, the ANIMATION for it starts INSTANTLY (assuming of course you didn't just hit some other ability within the last second). I'm sorry if you want your most powerful defensive skill to take place with no ANIMATION. I bet it would be super awesome if DRG could hit jump and INSTANTLY do the damage without an ANIMATION. We can all just pretend like they jumped though, right?

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Originally Posted by Mikara

Alright, I'm going to break this down for you guys. As soon as you press the button on an instant skill, the ANIMATION for it starts INSTANTLY (assuming of course you didn't just hit some other ability within the last second). I'm sorry if you want your most powerful defensive skill to take place with no ANIMATION. I bet it would be super awesome if DRG could hit jump and INSTANTLY do the damage without an ANIMATION. We can all just pretend like they jumped though, right?

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Pretty much this. Instant Cast means Instant Cast, which it does.

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Originally Posted by Mikara

I bet it would be super awesome if DRG could hit jump and INSTANTLY do the damage without an ANIMATION. We can all just pretend like they jumped though, right?

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You mean expect it to work like almost every other game of the genre? Yes, casting time or delay is expected to be time it takes for the ability to happen. If an ability is going to take 4 seconds it needs to have a 4 second delay and have a 4 second cast bar in which the animation can take place. If an ability is INSTANT then the effects of said ability need to be INSTANT not a 4 second delay...that would be an ability with a cast time delay...which is fine if you actually make your ability decriptions, ui, and cooldowns match that.

Well, if we want to get technical about it, I guess every other MMO you have ever played was lying to you from the start. Nothing is actually instant in any game. You hit the button, the game client on your side takes time to recognize it, starts to play the animation, the packet is sent to the server, which processes the animation, (insert damage / heal / ability here), packets get sent back to your client, the photons shooting out of your monitor into your eyeballs. Sorry, that still wasn't instant. Stop crying about something that isn't broken. I mean for fucks sake, they are getting ready to put a tutorial in the game about "how to talk to your party in chat" do they honestly have to spell EVERYTHING out to you people. It should be implied that when you push the button, the ANIMATION is what starts instantly, not the (insert damage / heal / ability here).

/rant.

Edit: Sorry for the harsh language in that line, but I feel it needed to be stressed just how bogus it is that people feel like they need their hand held through everything.

And how exacly is it implied wheb I hit a button that says do 1 billion damage 2.5 second cool down that hitting that button does 1 billion damage after a 30second animation of me running in circle like a dog chasing my tail and I can reuse it again in 32.5 seconds....that isnt implied at all.

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Originally Posted by Sikkun

And how exacly is it implied wheb I hit a button that says do 1 billion damage 2.5 second cool down that hitting that button does 1 billion damage after a 30second animation of me running in circle like a dog chasing my tail and I can reuse it again in 32.5 seconds....that isnt implied at all.

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You can't be serious, can you? Please say you are not, because that is the most obnoxious response I have ever seen in my life.

I am seriouse its called a delay or cast time. Its nothing new, its been around for a good 14+ years indicate it as such. Cast bar has been there as an indicator of when you expect something to land...while melee is used to there abilties going instantly and animations happening to look pretty.

Im not saying you have to change say hallowed ground to be instant 10 second invincibility, but it should state the cast time and have a cast bar if thats the way it's itended to work.

Regardless of the technicalities it's all a matter of response, in other MMOs off GCD instant abilities remain instant at all times and sure it might not look pretty when animations just cancel on top of each other but from a gameplay perspective it feels smooth, in ARR instant abilities might be instant when used by themselves but that's not always the case when they're weaved in between other abilities, they're only instant when used after certain abilities and have a very noticeable delay when they're used right after others, that shouldn't be the case at all and should remain instant regardless of how jarring it might look. Some aren't really even instant when used by themselves like Hallowed Ground or Benediction which still have a 1-2 second activation time even when they are labeled instant, go ahead and argue about how "gamebreaking" it would be if they were truly instant and applied their respective effect the moment their key is pressed, that's just ignoring how they should really work properly.

It's exactly the same issue TOR faced at launch and it's really funny how it's met with the same "working as intended" type responses disregarding the issue over here, it's also one of the reasons why PvP in the game is considered a plain joke, guess dedicated fans are the same everywhere.

All these people who just want to faceroll their keyboard without animations.. :rolleyes: YES.. I WANT ALL.. Istant-Abilities goes of AT ONCE.. Because they are ALL INSTANT.. WTF.. Why does this have an animation? What is this?.. Some sort of Aesthetic? The hell to that, i want to Spasm around and make this Game as ugly as oll the other ones out there...

lol... I am pretty sure i know exactly, which Games certain people in here played before. :rolleyes:

OP makes a good point that I agree with.

Unfortunately some players in this thread don't know what is good for them, and would instead like to pretend that only the elite can handle FFXIV's GCD that is inexplicably (and unnecessarily) three times longer than in any other MMO.

Everyone can handle it, most of us just don't like it. There is nothing fun about a character that feels slow.

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Originally Posted by therpgfanatic

Unfortunately some players in this thread don't know what is good for them

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Some people do believe they know whats good for them, by playing Armchair Dev.

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Originally Posted by therpgfanatic

and would instead like to pretend that only the elite can handle FFXIV's GCD that is inexplicably (and unnecessarily) three times longer than in any other MMO.

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Does not matter how long it is on other Games, FFXIV is not "other Games". I know this childish attitude from 5 year old kids these day.. ."but daddy.. all my friends have an iphone, i have to have one too"...

What people forget is that the GCD is built with a higher levelcap in mind. So if it feels slow now it is for 2 reasons; 1) you are used to it since you play the game for a while 2) levelcap is currently 50 and each levelcap raise will add 3-4 more skills to your bar. Each Levelcap Raise will probably be around 5 Levels.

Let aside that a lower GCD would mean speeding up the Animations even more, make them look retarded or get rid of them. They are allready way faster than they were in 1.0.

What are you doing at lets say Level75 or 99? Faceroll-Spasm, because you will never be able to actually play your class effective with 20-25 more skills on your bars? What to complain about then? WWAAAAHMBULANCE.. we have too many skills, GCD is too short, We need Animation lock.

Like you have said.. some players unfortunately don't know what is good for them.

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Originally Posted by therpgfanatic

Everyone can handle it, most of us just don't like it. There is nothing fun about a character that feels slow.

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Please share what data you have to prove that most people that play this game dislike the system.

I find a much bigger issue to be when I click a skill that IS ready and it simply doesnt activate, so now I find myself constant clicking until I see that it HAS started

I personally like the system how it is to a certain extent. The battles are tailored to the global cooldown so it doesn't have a profound impact. For example, Twintania's Death Sentence is a longer cast than the global cooldown which gives plenty of time for a reaction to it.

However, I do believe there are some abilities that should be entirely free of the GCD and animation lock. I primarily play White Mage so:

For white mage, I think certain buffs such as the Divine Seal buff and Swiftcast should remain affected by the animation lock. They add to the experience of "focusing more" or "channeling heavier" to achieve the desired power.

However, for something like Benediction which is an ability used at those moments where you need to recover in a split second, they should go off instantly. The ability itself is 90% wasted because it's so difficult to use it in time at those moments when it is important.

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Originally Posted by Nero

Some people do believe they know whats good for them...
Like you have said.. some players unfortunately don't know what is good for them.

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Weird the gcd feels like it lowers the skill cap to me. I think it's probably a 50/50 split of for and against the slow combat. I can see possible reasons for it but to make the combat require more skill isn't one of them. I love everything about the game except the slow combat and the horrible pvp it has.

Additionally with dragoon, people complained about it's jumps animation lock enough that it was shortened. However, the jump animation is still longer than 1.5s, so if I mash the jump button after using a weapon skill it will still delay my next weapon skill (gcd will be over but unable to use anything because still jumping).

The invisible 1sec GCD that appears after using a weaponskill/ability mostly prevents me from using 2 buffs in between skills. I wouldn't mind the 1s delay if ABILITIES did not trigger it. I'm ok with Weapon Skills causing it for the sake of fluidity. But if I want to trigger Blood for Blood and Life Surge at the same time I should be able to do that.

The animation lock is immensely frustrating for key tanking/healing abilities:

I've died on several occasions due to holmgang not being possible to trigger immediately. I've missed key lustrate casts because it was impossible to trigger immediately. I've seen and heard party complaints numerous times about Holy ground and Benediction failing to trigger, and in many of those instances the animation triggered but the ability did not.

These instances are definitely an issue with the overall game design. What is the point of a panic death prevention ability that isn't on the GCD if we have to plan to need it by not using abilities on our GCD or other off GCD skills?

Abilities like Inner Release and Blood for Blood being impossible to trigger together without either delaying your main rotation or putting a gcd skill in between is more of a mild annoyance, but it is still just that. An annoyance that makes the game play feel far less smooth.

In addition to this, there is something weird that happens with client/server sync on GCD rotations:

I've experienced numerous cases of my main being on monk because I pushed dragon kick, I saw my character do the dragon kick animation, I pressed the next ability in my rotation and it failed because I wasn't in the correct stance, paused for a moment, pushed again, got the same message, and realized that Dragon Kick never actually went off, and I'd gotten a 'not ready yet' message after the animation had already gone off. That most DEFINITELY makes the game play feel not smooth.

While I can and do play and enjoy the game as it is now, it would definitely feel better if our off GCD skills weren't animation locked.

The invisible cooldown between gcd and non-gcd abilities is a conscious design decision.

It levels the playing field between keyboard users and controller users giving them time for the extra keypress to switch hotbars.

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Originally Posted by Stormblossom

I've experienced numerous cases of my main being on monk because I pushed dragon kick, I saw my character do the dragon kick animation, I pressed the next ability in my rotation and it failed because I wasn't in the correct stance, paused for a moment, pushed again, got the same message, and realized that Dragon Kick never actually went off, and I'd gotten a 'not ready yet' message after the animation had already gone off. That most DEFINITELY makes the game play feel not smooth.

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This also happens on Dragoon, and probably other classes too. It's a little jarring because you see the animation half execute, but because of some reason (mob not really where it appears, for example) it doesn't complete and so nothing actually happens. Because effects occur following the animation, and not before/during, what you see isn't what you get. If there's one thing I'd like to see improved, it would be this.

The OPs issue, I have no issue with, personally. In terms of MMOs, I've only really every played XI and there is an "invisible" GCD between spells and abilities too (~3 seconds or so?), so for me a 1 second delay is really not a problem.

Not being able to use an instant cast lifesaver when you opted to use a different ability instead (eg, Using Cure but deciding Benediction would be better because they actually took more damage than you expected) is simply the result of your choice to use ability A over ability B. A good awareness of the battle situation should give you enough information to make a calculated judgement on what to use. Don't think of these abilities (Hallowed Ground, Lustrate, Holmgang etc) as "oh shi-" buttons, but things you use when you need them. Don't use Rage of Halone if you know you'll need Hallowed Ground within the next 1 second. If you miss it, it's often due to a bad call, not a result of a 1 second delay between action use.

Since pro damage after animation seems to be the more hostile group please explain this to me. On a boss they have a cast bar it draws a red circle on the ground. You have to be out of the red circle BEFORE the cast bar finishes, not before the red circle is gone...and most deff not before the giant explosion happens. So while you dont take damage until the animation you do take damage if you didn't clear the circle before the CAST which is why you can look epic running into explosions without taking damage. Confusing...this whole argument has a simple solution, if I cant cast anything during an animation gray out my entire hot bar until I can. Problem solved, no more confusion. You can argue over which is better but we wouldn't be arguing over why its confusing.