PS4 trailer

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Originally Posted by Hysterior

sorry for hijack but... are mouses like Razer Naga working on the PS4 version?
thx

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As a regular mouse, yes but the macro functionality doesn't work as of two weeks ago.

woah keyboard and mouse support for ps4? THANKS SE

Even thou I play on pc. I brought the ps3 version just for the artbook that was in the collectors edition. the ps3 version is horrible to play on. thank god they gave us the free upgrade to ps4. even thou I was thinking of buying the collectors edition again for the ps4.

And this was my plan all along.

Thanks for sharing :D

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

That means it would be perfect for the Wii U. But i'm afraid that the Wii U's lack of power and memory might make that impossible.

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If it works on ps3 im sure it would work on a Wii U

hmm if DoH or DoL ever become much more viable, the Vita looks like it might be worth looking into.

Unless Sony changes stance and allows you to install software that isn't a PS4 game then keyboard and mouse macro buttons won't ever be usable. The system won't recognize extra keys without drivers specific to the hardware nevermind software to program the macros. Not much point in getting a full blown gaming KB and mouse for PS4.

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Originally Posted by Laf

and lets forget that SE itself do have investors and need to show good results to them... Good/bad results or even rumours effect their stock prices too.

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While true, at least they don't have investors who don't give a shit except about the $ who aren't even affiliated with SE.

As far as I know, the only people they need to please as far as business and profits is people within their own company. Which IMO is a great advantage. Can also be a great disaster waiting to happen, but since ARR has essentially saved SE financially, I don't think they'll be willin to give the game up anytime soon.

Which is good news for us consumers as that means they will strive to bring out quality to keep us active.

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Originally Posted by razzgrizz3

hahaha ps4 features = a bunch of gimmicks. where are the graphical differences you promised i.e wet characters

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Not a PS4 thing, a patch thing. 2.2+.

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

The PS4 version graphics look like they are in-between PS3 and PC and it's only running at 30fps.... im kind of disappointed by this, i was expecting more of the PS4's hardware. Seeing some of the upcoming PS4 games i could have sweared that it was way more capable than my desktop which runs ARR on Max right now... guess i was wrong or the dev team did a poor porting job.

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Well yes, most new PS4 games coming out will be running full 1080p at 60 fps
So this is obviously a choice SE has made, the PS4 hardware is well capable of running it at a higher framerate

Oh and it has already been confirmed PS4 will have full mouse and keyboard support.

I for one am just excited to try the beta soon :D

Watched the trailer and honestly, it didn't look much different from what I play now. On the PS3. Only neat thing I saw was the Vita remote play, but it's not something to get a Vita over. Nor is this a game worth getting a PS4 over. I'm not impressed. I'm going to keep playing on a PS3 for now. Maybe when a must-have title makes me get a PS4 I'll jump the shark.

The only thing im looking foreward to with the ps4 launch is the promise of DX11 support for pc, which is what we were told would happen with the ps4 launch.

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Originally Posted by Moheeheeko

The only thing im looking foreward to with the ps4 launch is the promise of DX11 support for pc, which is what we were told would happen with the ps4 launch.

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No, you were told it would come 3-6 months AFTER the PS4 launch, not WITH it.

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Originally Posted by Johnist

No, you were told it would come 3-6 months AFTER the PS4 launch, not WITH it.

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/headdesk

the game doesnt even use more than half of my resources, cmon SE

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Originally Posted by Johnist

No, you were told it would come 3-6 months AFTER the PS4 launch, not WITH it.

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Correct. I don't know why people keep saying it will drop at the same time....

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Originally Posted by Moheeheeko

/headdesk

the game doesnt even use more than half of my resources, cmon SE

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Ps3 games didn't start using it's full resources till years later...

I want Dx11 :(

I just hope people are prepared to see that DX11 will not be fully utilized when it comes. I remember in one of the interviews Yoshi stating that they will only be using certain aspects of DX11, and things such as textures will not be improved upon.

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Originally Posted by C-croft

I just hope people are prepared to see that DX11 will not be fully utilized when it comes. I remember in one of the interviews Yoshi stating that they will only be using certain aspects of DX11, and things such as textures will not be improved upon.

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Knowing the forums, no people are not. They expect a fully reworked game with new animations and actual foliage meshes rather than the simple tessellation that the Dx11 does... and butt sliders.

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Originally Posted by Nayto

Knowing the forums, no people are not. They expect a fully reworked game with new animations and actual foliage meshes rather than the simple tessellation that the Dx11 does... and butt sliders.

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I can't wait for the fall out of this one. I have been setting aside cases of popcorn for when the time comes.

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Originally Posted by C-croft

I can't wait for the fall out of this one. I have been setting aside cases of popcorn for when the time comes.

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Cases? Please, I've hired NASA to launch a laser into orbit just to cook my house, which I've converted into a giant jiffy-pop skillet.

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

Cases? Please, I've hired NASA to launch a laser into orbit just to cook my house, which I've converted into a giant jiffy-pop skillet.

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URGH! what movie was that?! I think it starred Val Kilmer... I can't remember....

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Originally Posted by Gilraen

Watched the trailer and honestly, it didn't look much different from what I play now. On the PS3. Only neat thing I saw was the Vita remote play, but it's not something to get a Vita over. Nor is this a game worth getting a PS4 over. I'm not impressed. I'm going to keep playing on a PS3 for now. Maybe when a must-have title makes me get a PS4 I'll jump the shark.

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.... what exactly were you expecting? Its FFXIV at higher settings and better FPS. I wouldnt get a PS4 or a Vita for FFXIV either but you will definitely notice better performance. The graphical upgrades will likely be subtle so youll have to look closer to notice them (more foliage, better less jagged shadows, more detailed reflactions from more sources, etc). PS3 is way overset (hence the almost unplayable FPS) but unless you have a more powerful PS3 than everyone else, youll at least notice much smoother motion (FPS).

Glad they decided to support keyboards, and the Vita thing should be interesting.

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Originally Posted by C-croft

URGH! what movie was that?! I think it starred Val Kilmer... I can't remember....

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Real Genius

Greetings, everyone.

As there have been some comments and questions about the migration of saved data from the PS3 version to the PS4 version, I'd like to share the below comments from Hiroshi Minagawa about this topic.

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Originally Posted by Hiroshi_Minagawa

During the PS4 version beta test it will not be possible to move locally saved data over from the PS3 to the PS4. However, this is an extremely high priority task and we are currently working on this so that on launch day you'll be able to do transfer your data.

I'd like to make a more detailed announcement after we've implemented and tested it, but for now, please take a look at an overview.

• PS3 local saved data is saved to the PSN server. (This is a link to the user guide on the Sony Computer Entertainment website.)
  • This data includes: hotbar information, gear set information, macro data, and item sorting data.
  • A maximum of 8 characters' data can be saved at one time according to the latest log in history order.
• The data saved above can be loaded from the PS4 FFXIV launcher menu.

Some things to note:

• If you wish to save data for more than 8 characters, you will have to log in to update your log in history, and perform the saves in phases.
• Transferring of data to the Windows version (PS3 version to Windows version) is not possible.
  (This is a restriction set in the PSN agreement as well as the PlayStation saved file agreement)
• Data cannot be transferred from the PS4 to the PS3.

* Currently this is still in-development and there is a possibility it changes before release. We appreciate your understanding.

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Originally Posted by Hiroshi_Minagawa

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In the future, instead of using the PSN server, I'm curious if it would be possible to export this data to the FFXIV data server and then import it locally and if there are any plans to address this.

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When we were discussing the specifications of this, we had also thought about a plan to build a specific server for it. From a software implementation stand point this would be the simplest way and give us the most freedom; however, we determined that preparation of the equipment was not very realistic.

• The size of a single FFXIV character’s saved data is extremely large.
  (This includes all of the items they possess and hotbars for all classes and jobs.)
• As a maximum of 40 characters can be created on a single account, the maximum amount would have to be supported.
• Server expansion would be necessary to handle the peak stress directly after the PS4 version release.
• With the server expansion, data center expansion would also be required (the time and cost of this is extremely large), and it would take, at minimum, half a year to set up the hardware and prepare it for operation.
• The difference between the usage of this at peak time compared to the regular everyday usage would be extremely large, and the maintenance costs would be much more than necessary.

Based on these points above, we decided to drop the idea for a standalone server for the transferring of data across platforms at the of the PS4 version release.

Plans for the future

As I wrote above, since this is something that requires an extremely large amount of resources, I’m not able to make any promises, and I apologize about this.

We've been receiving your monthly subscription fees and putting them into development and operation. This is an important finite resource, and if we were to allocate a large portion for only this feature it would result in a trade-off with other game features and additions.

Due to this, we will be continuing to look into other methods besides having a standalone server, which include methods that are somewhat difficult to implement but the operational cost is low.

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Originally Posted by Crimson-Falcon

Naoki Yoshida confirmed that more important in show as many players as possible so the game will run at 30 FPS but 1080p with a limit to show up to 200 players at once

but the game will also exceed 30 FPS if some conditions are met ( i guess only 60 FPS possible in instances only but not outside world )

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Hmmm..

- PS3 version is 30 frames of 720p fixed, but I can play comfortably at 60 frame 1080p display of the PS4 version?

Mr. Yoshida: Yes. They do not want to limit too much the frame.

- In the PS3 version, from memory limit, there is also a limit to the display, such as the number of characters In addition, the limit of that area is also more loosely the PS4 version?

: Mr. Yoshida I referenced to the PC version.

http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/docs...21_616332.html
(used Chrome's built-in translator)

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Originally Posted by Camate

The size of a single FFXIV character’s saved data is extremely large.
(This includes all of the items they possess and hotbars for all classes and jobs.)

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Some of this information is more important than the rest. For instance, it's not really that big of a deal of the positions of items in our bags don't carry over from machine to machine (we can hit sort to fix that). By contrast, the fact that gearsets don't carry over is a massive quality of life inconvenience. I am constantly having to update gearsets between machines.

It seems to me that storing this player data on an FFXIV server is being considered to be an all or nothing approach. It shouldn't be. Consider storing some of the more painful aspects of character data (gearsets first, hotbars a close second) first, and don't worry about doing the things that are just tangential improvements. You could give us 80% of the benefit here for 20% of the cost.

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Originally Posted by lukesneeringer

Some of this information is more important than the rest. For instance, it's not really that big of a deal of the positions of items in our bags don't carry over from machine to machine (we can hit sort to fix that). By contrast, the fact that gearsets don't carry over is a massive quality of life inconvenience. I am constantly having to update gearsets between machines.

It seems to me that storing this player data on an FFXIV server is being considered to be an all or nothing approach. It shouldn't be. Consider storing some of the more painful aspects of character data (gearsets first, hotbars a close second) first, and don't worry about doing the things that are just tangential improvements. You could give us 80% of the benefit here for 20% of the cost.

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The thing that's the bulk of the information is what you're asking for, gear sets and hot bars.

The maximum size that they'd have to support(which is the problem) is 40 characters per account X 30 different gearsets (It can go higher it's just how many I know I have) X 14 different equips per gear set X 100 different hot bar skills(10 hotbars available with 10 skills per) meaning that 1 character takes 1.68 GB just for that information(assuming each piece of that information is 1 byte and its probably more than that) and since 60mil+ chars have been created so far that means to store that data just right now you'd need a min of 100.8 TB of storage.

Oh and before someone jumps on me for saying it's only 100 TB SE could afford that easily each of those things are probably 100 bytes minimum meaning the actual size would be closer to 10 PB.

Yeah.... SO?

Why a 10 hour maintenance on the 19th, IMMEDIATELY following a 3 hour maintenance on the 14th, to put in "support" for the PS4, for whom the version is not due to be released for yet another month?


Ridiculous I say!

It's not just a PlayStation 4 support they are adding it's also patch 2.16 and the addition of support makes sense since the beta starts on Saturday that week next week. Btw the update on the 14 is 2 hrs not 3 and might even be less then 2.

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Originally Posted by Damifino

Yeah.... SO?

Why a 10 hour maintenance on the 19th, IMMEDIATELY following a 3 hour maintenance on the 14th, to put in "support" for the PS4, for whom the version is not due to be released for yet another month?


Ridiculous I say!

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http://cdn.dualshockers.com/wp-conte...4-13_21_18.jpg

Yes
Only PS4 support in 2.16

I wish they would not put retainer bells in Revenant's Toll. There would be now more people. Gridania is only 5 minutes away with chocobo.

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Originally Posted by Hysterior

are mouses like Razer Naga working on the PS4 version?

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Nope as they're using OS specific drivers / settings for the enhanced features. Only Keyboards or Mice with hardware buttons / macros would work (and still require PC to upload the macros to them or change the settings).

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Originally Posted by Archulak

The maximum size that they'd have to support(which is the problem) is 40 characters per account X 30 different gearsets (It can go higher it's just how many I know I have) X 14 different equips per gear set X 100 different hot bar skills(10 hotbars available with 10 skills per) meaning that 1 character takes 1.68 GB just for that information(assuming each piece of that information is 1 byte and its probably more than that) and since 60mil+ chars have been created so far that means to store that data just right now you'd need a min of 100.8 TB of storage.

Oh and before someone jumps on me for saying it's only 100 TB SE could afford that easily each of those things are probably 100 bytes minimum meaning the actual size would be closer to 10 PB.

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You are ignoring compression, and storage space is cheap. Bandwidth is the costliest.

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Originally Posted by Laraul

You are ignoring compression, and storage space is cheap. Bandwidth is the costliest.

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That's not how it works. I work in a datacenter. Compression is impossible, a file compressed can be used unless the data your compressing needs to be referenced or updated(each time it did would require an un-compress then re-compress meaning you need to save space for the files expansion). so compression is a no go. plus the additional IO and transfer of data to read all this data that updates if you move any icon, switch any item and so on would be bad practice. for example. websites cache stuff locally to a browser to stop the front end from having to constantly query the backend database.
so to list a few flaws in storing the data on a server in a data center.
-additional monthly cost from data center to "store" data.
-additional IO that would require additional monthly fees to provide from data center.
-new design to support the amount of database queries to all clients simultaneously
#Data centers charge by the GB of space. getting 10PB would likely cost more per month then most of you make in a year.

Data center storage is not cheap... this is not paying 30 dollars for a 1TB drive. Server storage is on a whole different level and is not cheap.

Not saying its not possible. just this is done by design and not later. it could call for recoded server structure. the easiest way would be to limit what is saved. Like TERA who keep a small config file that gets pulled down locally and updated when modified and sent to server. though what they save is very limited.

Not saying that you are wrong - quite the opposite - but there are a few ways to mitigate the storage space dilemma. They could store a diff file, for instance. If I were to make a gross guess, very few users actually make many changes to their macros or have many gear sets. As such, if you store only the users' alterations, rather than the individual data itself, you could drastically reduce the overhead. Depending on the format of the diff file, you could quickly and efficiently load macro and setting changes without permuting TBs of data. That's a pretty superficial improvement though.

On a a more abstract level, you could use a flyweight to enumerate commonalities between gear sets. If two people have the same gear set, you can use 16 bytes instead of 28, if 3 people use the same gear set, that goes to 17:42. Hotbars are the real sticking point, there's only so many ways to visualize that data. The issue is that hotbars are too general-purpose, abilities would be easy enough to map, but macros, gear sets, and emotes greatly increase the range of data that needs to be available. Best case scenario is the number of hotbar items * 2 bytes + 4 bytes (for region markers so that you can overload bits).

Bottom line, with a few clever data permutations, in the end, you're going to end up with ~6kB (assuming 2 bytes per item) per character for hotbars and 1.7kB (assuming 4 bytes per item) per character for gearsets. Of course, since you're assuming macros are static resources, you'll have to make those available as well, that's another 40 bytes (4 byte command * number of lines) per macro, so plop on another 4kB on the front. So call it a cool 22kB per character.

To use the number (which I am not sure where it comes from, but I'll keep things consistent) stated above, if there are 60 million accounts - active and inactive - you would spend ~1.32TB of space storing the data server side. Please by all means check my math, I do have a bad habit of loosing orders of magnitude form time to time, but I have gone over these numbers quite few times now, and I'm fairly confident in them.

It's worth noting that you could substantially reduce the bandwidth strain as well by only downloading and uploading the file on session creation and session deletion. It would cause occasional funkiness, such as when you crash after writing a new macro, but it would not effect the discussion at hand, which is transferring data to a new device. You could also mitigate the above by making downloads only constructive, while uploads are both constructive and destructive. That way you wouldn't lose new macros on a crash, but they wouldn't appear on new machines until you correctly shut down.

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Originally Posted by Archulak

The maximum size that they'd have to support(which is the problem) is 40 characters per account X 30 different gearsets (It can go higher it's just how many I know I have) X 14 different equips per gear set X 100 different hot bar skills(10 hotbars available with 10 skills per) meaning that 1 character takes 1.68 GB just for that information(assuming each piece of that information is 1 byte and its probably more than that) and since 60mil+ chars have been created so far that means to store that data just right now you'd need a min of 100.8 TB of storage.

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Your math is quite far off the mark, first because you multiplied by the maximum number of characters someone could have and then gave the result as "per character", and secondly because you multiplied the gearset information times the number of hotbar slots.

So instead of: 40 * 30 * 14 * 100 * 60mil = 100.8 TB
it would be: ((30 * 14) + 100) * 60mil = 31.2 GB

Now, as you said, some of that info may have more than one byte, so the real amount could be significantly higher than 31.2 GB, but it wouldn't be anywhere near 100 TB, nor even 1 TB for that matter.

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Originally Posted by Archulak

each of those things are probably 100 bytes minimum meaning the actual size would be closer to 10 PB.

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The hotbar slots would each hold the ID number of either a skill, an item, or a macro slot. Even if the ID numbers they use are 64 bit, that's only 8 bytes, and they're more likely to be 32 bits, or 4 bytes each, since that would still provide more than enough unique ID numbers for the number of skills and items likely to ever be in the game.

The gear set slots hold an item ID and a dye color ID. (They don't store the rest of the details about an item. If you have two items of the same type and color, switching to the gear set will take whichever is currently stored first in your armoury chest.) That's only two numbers, probably 4 or at most 8 bytes for the item ID and one byte for the color.

So assuming the most likely 5 bytes per gearset item and 4 bytes per hotbar slot, along with your numbers from earlier we get:
((30 gearsets * 14 items * 5 bytes) + (100 hotbar slots * 4 bytes)) * 60mil characters = 150 GB total
or if the ID numbers are 64 bit, it would be:
((30 gearsets * 14 items * 9 bytes) + (100 hotbar slots * 8 bytes)) * 60mil characters = 274.8 GB total

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Originally Posted by Noata

plus the additional IO and transfer of data to read all this data that updates if you move any icon, switch any item and so on

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You're assuming the pieces would be updated individually in real-time. That would be one option, but a far more cost effective one would be to update the entire structure just once at logout.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

The gear set slots hold an item ID and a dye color ID.

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We're way off topic at this point, but I just wanted to point out that you forgot that the new system coming out next update prioritizes by the correct materia, so it need materia info as well, so append another 5 bytes on there. Also, remember that each gear set has its own hotbar sets, so it's not ((30 * 14) + 100) * 60mil = 31.2 GB, but (30 * (14 + 100)) * 60 mil = 205.2 GB.

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Originally Posted by Hulan

I just wanted to point out that you forgot that the new system coming out next update prioritizes by the correct materia, so it need materia info as well, so append another 5 bytes on there.

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Ah, I didn't know about that. Nice.

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Originally Posted by Hulan

Also, remember that each gear set has its own hotbar sets, so it's not ((30 * 14) + 100) * 60mil = 31.2 GB, but (30 * (14 + 100)) * 60 mil = 205.2 GB.

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That's partially right (and closer to right than I was in my previous post). Gear sets don't have their own hotbar slots, but classes and jobs do, so with 19 classes and 9 jobs it would be
((30 * 14) + (28 * 100)) * 60mil = 193.2 GB

and with reasonable sizes added (including that extra 5 bytes for materia you mentioned for the next update) it comes to:
((30 gearsets * 14 items * 10 bytes) + (28 classes&jobs * 100 hotbar slots * 4 bytes)) * 60mil characters = 924 GB total

So it could be getting near the 1 TB level if every character ever created has all 19 classes, all 9 jobs, and all possible hotbars enabled and class/job specific. If they only store the parts that are actually in use, though, they'd probably save most of that space due to characters without all the classes and jobs, or who only use a couple hotbars for some of their classes. That pattern just needs a small overhead for marking which pieces are in use and which aren't.

dat meteor wipe on king behemoth lol

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Originally Posted by Laf

SE stated itself - ~650K subs after subscription kicked in... obviously there are less ppl now... SE counting stuff same as EA in KOTOR..? Adding ghost players... temporary activating inactive accounts... so everything would look better to investors?

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Every company does that.