SMN DPS: Pushing it to the limit

I honestly don't think 400 is feasible in T5 unless you lump in LB damage. Even on my best days when I'm hitting my stride, have all my cooldowns available at the right times, have battle voiced foes at the right times, etc... I'm still only maxing out around 340-350 at most. BiS, popping hq mega int, getting fester crits on Asceplius, Baning mega int + RS + Contagion'd DoTs onto everything in phase 1, etc.

The only time you can semi-reliably break 400 DPS is on AoE encounters, like turn 4.

I agree with you, I didn't say I pulled 400+ t5 that's not feasible.

I think it is rude and un-necessary to put others down even if you in your view consider them absolutely wrong. So many better ways it could have been handled. Ryu, I found it so mean spirited the way it was handled, a simple I see why you feel that was let me explain why what you said is not the case would have been more than enough. We are all team SMN here folks being constructive is the far better choice to make us all better.

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Originally Posted by WLotus

You can reapply RS'd SF after but imo during the time you are going thru your spurrouseenkindle + throwing up RS & dots you want something to be doing constant damage instead of letting that time going to waste. Your initial SF will be going off the whole time this is happening. I'm certainly not the best SMN, as I main WHM and offspec SMN but what I posted is what a good friend of mine taught me and he is by and far the best SMN I have ever seen on any server. I've left a comment on your youtube video w/ a question if you don't mind answering it :).

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Getting a shadow flare out pre-pull if possible is great. But you will want to replace it with a RS shadow flare before RS goes down.

Something like:

Shadow Flare > Tank Pulls > Raging Strikes > Bio II > Miasma > Bio > Fester > Miasma II > Contagion > Ruin II > Energy Drain > Ruin II > Swiftcast > Shadow Flare > Fester > Ruin II > Aetherflow...

Also Miasma II is better than Ruin when you have contagion available.

I'm curious about the Miasma II on initial pull. As a caster don't you want to be at max casting range? Aren't you wasting more time running in for Miasma II and then running out? For Garuda EX I know that I don't want to be near her between slipstream and all her other attacks. Actaually there are a lot of fights that I don't want to be anywhere near the boss haha.

I'm just curious as I am always looking to better myself. I wouldn't call myself the best, but I'm definitely not horrible either.

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Originally Posted by AzucenaC

I'm curious about the Miasma II on initial pull. As a caster don't you want to be at max casting range? Aren't you wasting more time running in for Miasma II and then running out? For Garuda EX I know that I don't want to be near her between slipstream and all her other attacks. Actaually there are a lot of fights that I don't want to be anywhere near the boss haha.

I'm just curious as I am always looking to better myself. I wouldn't call myself the best, but I'm definitely not horrible either.

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Depends on the fight, and the phase of the fight. You can generally always Contagion a Miasma II against Ex Titan or Ex Ifrit. You can do it against Twintania in the first two phases. You can do it against Ex Garuda at various points in the fight.

Aside from Miasma II, you want to be in melee range, if you can, to get melee attacks.

There are some fights, like Caduceus or ADS, that I'd stay back, but a lot of fights (longer fights especially), there is plenty of opportunity to hang out in melee range for a grand majority of the fight. This is of course end-game content, not some wanky level 32 dungeon or something.

New player here I have a few questions about dots I was hoping someone could clarify.
Is the potency listed on a dot the potency of the Ticks or the Duration?
How do I know how often a dot will Tick during its duration?
Can dots crits, I'm assuming if they can then they would crit on Ticks and just be a crit dot for the Duration?

Potency on dots is the potency of the tick. But some dots deal initial damage, like Miasma... it deals 20 potency on casting, then 35 every tick.

DoT ticks happen every 3 seconds, but on a 'server clock', meaning it is not 3 seconds after casting, but every 3 seconds of every minute according to the time on the server's clock. So if you cast a DoT at 12:10:02, it will tick at 12:10:03, 12:10:06, 12:10:09, etc. So you can expect, at a minimum, (duration/3) DoT ticks per casting.

DoT ticks can crit, and they have a chance to crit each tick. There is no such thing as a 'crit dot' that crits every tick, because it crit when it was cast.

Hi, I want to ask a question here please

I do feel like I am not sastisfied with my SMN DPS, I did rotation like this threads suggest

My item level is 88 with Allagan SMN book, INT is around 502-504 with PT, DTR is 298 and CRT is 529 something

Its normal SMN DPS will always lose DRG? (that DRG is full 90 armor but decent accs 70 mixed with 80) I just wonder, I feel like I never ever able to catch up awesomeness of DRG big dmg

Feel disadvantage here, anyone please help me sort this, appreciated it

http://www.xivnomnom.com/wp-content/...qDvUrT3DfR.jpg

lol necromancer with no answer to my previous post

Oh by the way, ignore my previous post (02-28-2014) please, its shame to ask stupid question like that, I was newb at that time

I finally mastered my SMN, until now, no one can rival me so far ... boring

PS. Your pic is funny, Cons :)

Quick update, I was able to push crit to 600 with crafted and food. To date the highest I've pulled in t5 is 430 dps, Lev x 370 dpsand t6/7 350 dps. I often stream my runs and post the dps charts, check it out. Twitch.TV/wrydas217

A good rotation I found is to start the fight with RS>> Bio(instant dot)>>> followed by Bio 2(Longest standing dot) >>> followed by Miasma (second longest standing dot)>>> run up to target and apply Miasma 2>>> followed by Contagion(will boost all applied dots, increasing their duration by nearly double)>>>apply fester>>>> followed by swift cast>>>Shadow flare >>> reapply Bio>>> Fester>>> ruin x3, and Fester and reapply all dots when necessary. Also apply Spur/kindle whenever off cool down.

tip:
If you are new to summoner or have a bad PC/bad internet service, don't take your pet off sic. Keep your pet on Heel, and let him apply his attacks on his own. The computer auto attack is always faster than obey and attack. You will lose a lot of dps if you manually try to apply his commands.

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Originally Posted by Legionne

tip:
If you are new to summoner or have a bad PC/bad internet service, don't take your pet off sic. Keep your pet on Heel, and let him apply his attacks on his own. The computer auto attack is always faster than obey and attack. You will lose a lot of dps if you manually try to apply his commands.

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This is completely wrong. You will gain dps if you manually apply all of Garuda's commands (efficiently).

Sic is a command that should never be used, period. People with bad PC's or bad internet service should not use Sic either.

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Originally Posted by xxalucard

This is completely wrong. You will gain dps if you manually apply all of Garuda's commands (efficiently).

Sic is a command that should never be used, period. People with bad PC's or bad internet service should not use Sic either.

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It's not completely wrong because I tried it both ways, on different computers, and how your internet service or computer runs will affect how efficiently your pet cast. Not all computers are made equal.

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Originally Posted by Legionne

tip:
If you are new to summoner or have a bad PC/bad internet service, don't take your pet off sic. Keep your pet on Heel, and let him apply his attacks on his own. The computer auto attack is always faster than obey and attack. You will lose a lot of dps if you manually try to apply his commands.

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That is bad idea for several reasons. In Garuda's case, if set to Sic she will:
1) Waste Contagion recklessly
2) Use Aerial Slash which will cause her DPS to drop against single targets due to its 3 sec casting time
3) Use Shockwave if an enemy approaches her, which will annoy everyone

You just don't have Garuda on Sic ever. All SMNs should have her set to Obey, its an important habit anyway.

Ifrit though... if you're using him, can sortof get away with being left on Sic. The only real downsides are that he will use his Stun move (Which can be dangerous in certain fights) and that he'll slow his DPS a bit using Radiant Shield (Though isn't as bad as Garuda).

1) Garuda egi contagion is the third ability to get cast. I always had enough time to cast, RS, Bio, Bio 2 Miasma, before Contagion would proc, hence it wouldn't be wasted needlessly. As a summoner you should always keep your dots stacked through out the entire fight anyways.

2) True, this is the one draw back when using garuda on sic, against a single boss fight, but I found in the case of mob fights like in Turn 4, and phase 1, 2, 3, possibly 4 of turn 5 it actually doesn't matter, because you apply Bane to the group.

3) Garuda only uses shockwave, when your Garuda is in close proximity to an NPC. She won't utilize this ability when you are a fair distance away (about 15 yalms) from the target.

4) As I stipulated before, I only recommend this course of action when latency is a problem for you or you are new to the job.

Latency or being new doesn't matter for Contagion. It's not only off-GCD, but you can tell her to use it while you're casting anything. There's literally zero reason not to have her on Obey no matter how bad you are or how "bad" your internet is.

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Originally Posted by Madoka

Latency or being new doesn't matter for Contagion. It's not only off-GCD, but you can tell her to use it while you're casting anything. There's literally zero reason not to have her on Obey no matter how bad you are or how "bad" your internet is.

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The summoner out of all the jobs has one of the steepest learning curves in the game, and for this reason you have an auto attack. While other jobs only have themselves to worry about, the Summoner must be responsible for his/her pet as well as his/her self. If you are not familiar with a boss fight or do not have a super fast connection, you will be a liability to your group if you keep losing your pet or get yourself killed.

Learning how to play your job takes incremental steps, and learning how to play with respect to your connection and hardware is also essential.

Thought this was a thread about mastering SMN, not training wheel garudas.

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Originally Posted by Wrydas

Quick update, I was able to push crit to 600 with crafted and food. To date the highest I've pulled in t5 is 430 dps, Lev x 370 dpsand t6/7 350 dps. I often stream my runs and post the dps charts, check it out. Twitch.TV/wrydas217

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Hi :) I saw your video, and good job. just wanted to mention, you should basic attack. it's super helpful. specially fights like t6, t8, or parts of twin.

you will notice the difference in ur dps.

best of luck

Do you still melee attack while casting Ruin 1 or is it only Ruin 2 during the GCD wait?

I just lock on for basic attacks. Sometimes i could swear i see a basic melee hit during a cast, could be latency. To be honest im not sure. But the more deeps the better and smn basic attacks are not to be taken for granted. Over the course of a fight they add up

It'll attack whenever it can, and our auto attack is pretty slow so just let it go off whenever it does. If you try and ruin 2 for auto attacks on top of the other times we should use it your MP will become an issue.

Wow.. Just realized how RS effects Fester.. I thought Fester did more damage due to the DoTs being buffed by RS, but it's just the straight 100 potency/DoT that gets buffed.. Interesting XD

Our auto attack isn't slow. It triggers exactly, and consistently 3.0 seconds after every cool down. I have no idea why some people refuse to believe in something that's testable on a training dummy.

Any difference between Bio2-->Miasma and Miasma-->Bio2
I do know that bio2 last longer than Miasma, but, still you can complete Bio2 > Miasma > Bio or Miasma > Bio2 > Bio. without loss any effect of those 3.

I'm not really into archer but guess I have to level it to at least 4 for raging strike, should I?

http://imgur.com/SQKpjYf

That about how much i do on 90min worth of t9 pulls.

http://i.imgur.com/DOD66lo.png

Dps during burst phase, no CD. We are making most of the dps checks.

i96 smn, dont bother with auto it wouldnt really help you if you dps is low. As for how to dps,

Always use garuda, it is the only viable pet come end game, stick to garuda.

Learn how to use contagion make or break a summoner. Contagion works on every dot you have, including potent poisoning potion.

Dot potency depends on your initial application, which means Raging strikes/Int pot have to be used before dots.

Ruin 1 should be spammed for general dps, ruin 2 is for movement, or you need to use off-GCD abilities such as fester/bane/energy drain.

Mana management is important in endgame, so energy drain is just as important as fester.

for stats: iLVL>>>crit/det>>spell speed. Accuracy for T5 is 450, T9 is 491.

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Originally Posted by NightReach

i96 smn, dont bother with auto it wouldnt really help you if you dps is low. As for how to dps,

Always use garuda, it is the only viable pet come end game, stick to garuda.

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auto attacks, dispite being low damage, is still free damage, so not using it means your not really pushing the class to the limit like the thread is for.

also, ifrit-egi can allow you to do more damage than garuda even with contagion if you have a minimum 2 physical resist debuffs on its target (slashing/piercing/blunt) with movement of bosses however this really only comes into play for turn 8 that i have found so far, might be better on t7 also but i havent bothered with it there.

on a side note, if your good with timing skills, you can use RS, start with bio, then move to your other dots, in the last 2 seconds of RS you can then use a 2nd bio as the other falls off then use contagion.

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Originally Posted by Zamii

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ifrit is bad no matter what kind of buffs u get for slashing. if youre good at timing contagion ifrit dps will never come out on top ever t8 or not.

Auto is at best gimmick to clear dps check in 2 fights, it doesnt make u a better player. Maybe u could enlighten me and show me ur dps on t8/t9 with auto/ifrit.

Pushing dps means understanding when to use miasma 2, when to weave fester, how to sustain dps while moving, or when to poison pots, not how i can use an auto when im on boss's ass.

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Originally Posted by NightReach

Auto is at best gimmick to clear dps check in 2 fights, it doesnt make u a better player. Maybe u could enlighten me and show me ur dps on t8/t9 with auto/ifrit.

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do what u said=high dps.

do what u said + basic attack = higher dps.

not saying it's a lot, but it helps.

i don't usually use poison pots, i tend to raging my first contagion, and mega int my second contagion, and so on. would you recomend poison pots over this ?

then again, im not the best smn, but im trying to get better XD

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Originally Posted by NightReach

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you misunderstood i think how ifrit works, he isnt just slashing, he does all 3 types of damage (being blunt, piercing and slashing), as such, the more you have, the higher his dps, it doesnt just increase with one debuff.

also, a dps's primary roll is.. shock, to deal damage, if auto attacking lets me get even 1 more dps, then how is that a gimick? you talk about poison pots and it is a lower increase in overall damage than what auto attacks are, maybe we should start calling poison pots gimicks to?
btw, i dont use ifrit on t9, the only fight i use him on is t8 period, that aside, telling you my dps doesn't really prove anything, parsers (especialy with summoner) will vary greatly.

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Originally Posted by tayo

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poison pots dont share a cooldown with int pots, just a heads up, most pots that share cooldown have identical cooldown timers.

that aside, you should be using both the int pot and RS together, the otherall increase, thought slight, will be higher since the 2 will essentially buff each other, the only time you dont want to do this is when you have 2 different dps checks you need to meet (which i've yet to encounter this issue)

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Originally Posted by NightReach

Pushing dps means understanding when to use miasma 2, when to weave fester, how to sustain dps while moving, or when to poison pots, not how i can use an auto when im on boss's ass.

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Auto attacks are about as much of a dps upgrade as using miasma 2, weaving and using poison potion, you can't tell people to use one and not the other, damage is damage. I did almost 2k damage on our T9 kill in auto attacks, and we were literally a second short of the enrage timer so our kill was actually in part thanks to me auto attacking. Telling people not to auto attack is like telling them to skip on two festers. Just piss away your aetherflow stacks while you're at it.

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Originally Posted by Seobit

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gratz on ur kill, i concede my point, auto attack whenever you can i guess, ill start trying that. I assume ure only doing it during the last phase when u stack for fire/ice.

you should xint+rs miasma 2/poison ur first rotation so u can contagion all 5 dots. I'm am fairly certain poison is not effected by buffs apart from contagion and the CD is a bit weird so u could just use it ever time u do RS+Contagion.

I auto attack on phase 1, early part part of phase 3 (heavens fall, we all stack near the tank for the first one, I move away for the 2nd one to avoid getting super novas on the melees) and phase 4 since we're all stacked next to the boss anyway. Phase 1 I move out a bit early before dynamo so I'm not next to the melees for the meteor streams. I also go really hard on burning mp on phase 1 to get as much damage out as possible to push the transition faster (usually 4 meteors), and since golem phase is a set time you're fine as long as you do enough dps to kill them before transitions so I use energy drain a lot there to get back to full mp for when the boss comes back down.

I have found Bane & Fester to useless at 50th lv, what I found very useful is Energy Drain as a Cannon. It is 150 Potency, with the Restores MP ability. I have also put into Macros (Bio; Miasma; Bio II) This is because Bio is a mobile spell. This way I'm only stuck in 1 place for 5 seconds. My roll changes by the needs of the party.
Don't call Titan Egi a Tank; it is a heavy AOE dealer. You may say its only 70 Potency every 15 seconds, But it is adding 70 Potency plus holding all adds in a 5y area, which is important do to 2 of your 4 AOE's are zero range (Miasma II & blizzard II),
while Bane may seem to be an AOE, it only targets a randomly +3 targets. In a party with a large pull I spam the Tri-Disaster, It maybe only 30 potency, but in support of Titans & the parties AOE's it dose plenty damage. Just remember to use Energy Drain to minimize MG loss. While Virus cool down is bad, I use macros; Ruose and Spur and Virus, to make Virus useable.

Please don't forget about your gear. Your gear makes your pet. You have a sorry pet with Black mage gear on. Alter your gear to your play style.
The ilvl 100 Accessories for summoned is just no good for your pets.
I’m using +10 Vit Rosegold HQ. with melds. My Egi Titans hp = 9.6k. not finished yet.
Try using Energy Drain as a weapon, every time your MG drops 1/4.
Use Energy Drain 1 or 2 times.
Come on dose it do any good at all to put DOT’s on a group of targets. Bane is good verse 2 or 3 targets.
But it is waste of time ageist a pull. Put Shadow Flare so tank see’s the area you are controlling,
Then get in for Miasma II & Blizzard II. Then pull out for 20 to 30 seconds of Tri-Disaster and a hit 1 or 2 of Energy Drain. Start over again with Shadow Flare. Remember it’s not just you doing AOE’s.
Tell the tank about Egi Titans AOE ability. And it’s not for the full fight. I switch Egi Garuda and Egi Titan often.

Hay now! some fights just are worth DOT's You get more Damage in with a 5 or 6 Ruin II fight. some fights are over when you finish your DOT's. and if you hind sight it you contributed very little damage in a short fight. review your battle tab just to see what you did.

Please never post again.

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Originally Posted by Azoryl

This is horrible... Raging strikes after you applied all you dots is really bad. The good opening sequence should go...

Raging Strikes > Bio II > Miasma > Bio > Miasma II > Contagion > Ruin II + Fester(or Bane) > Shadowflare > Ruin 1....

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Fester after bio during GCD, right as it applies so you don't miss damage, and you will get 2 festers in RS. You can also re app bio if you are good enough at timing it, before RS ends, and get Bio with RS twice, and 2 festers and all other DoT's in RS and contagion'd. If you have 3 stack aetherflow at the start of a fight, you can Fester, energy drain, 2nd fester during RS, then re pop aetherflow for another 3 stacks immediately. RS wears then Pet buffs and enkindle if available.