Looting system - can we see lots before drop?

Passing after a lot on an item or being able to trade the item to other players who could have looted it (WoW does this, it is clearly possible) definitely need to be reconsidered.

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Originally Posted by Camate

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Well if this type of behavior won't be tolerated then can we submit a report with a Screenshot? In the future.

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Originally Posted by Billzey

You could pass after you lotted in FFXI. It was helpful if someone accidentally clicked the wrong button. That the dev team won't implement passing after lotting in this game is ridiculous.

It doesn't matter if you have an 'agreement' beforehand. People make mistakes, and this is a very easy fix.

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I'm pretty sure you can pass after you lot in FFXI cause I remember doing it just to see what I would roll. Dont see why we cant have it here.


But just to be clear the Topic of the OP is that players make an agreement about loot and then people roll need after they say they are there for something else. I've seen it happen and was the victim once.

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Originally Posted by Billzey

You could pass after you lotted in FFXI. It was helpful if someone accidentally clicked the wrong button. That the dev team won't implement passing after lotting in this game is ridiculous.

It doesn't matter if you have an 'agreement' beforehand. People make mistakes, and this is a very easy fix.

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Because it's usually impossible to with the ...-ahem-, STANDARD lotting system of NEED/GREED/PASS. XI didn't utilize that system.

Why not permit trade amongst eligible Duty Members post-loot?

Either pass after loot should be available or 5 min trade timer on recently lotted items, or both!

The fact that people are so concerned about being griefed doesn't say anything about a system. Vote kick is a good system, seeing who rolled on what when they roll is a good system.

The fact that you're all so afraid of someone giving you crap for it only speaks for how god awful the community of this game is. Stop allowing them to get away with not putting in good features because you're all afraid of someone telling you something you don't want to hear.

Just because a system can be abused it doesn't mean it shouldn't be implemented, especially if it is a good system. What does need to happen is this: Steps need to be taken to make the community better and to improve the system. You shouldn't try and deny people of it because you're afraid someone might 'bully' you with it.

Sounds like a pass after greed/need is simply not a priority right now.

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Originally Posted by Camate

We've received a lot of requests to make it possible to pass after you've already lotted on an item, but due to the current system as well as prospects for the future we do not have any plans to implement this at the moment.

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When has it ever in any situation been a bad design to allow people to 'pass' after they've rolled on an item before it's been assigned. You want every raid to go into an instance and have every piece of the many, many loot drops assigned to a player in advance? Heck no. People usually have a few key pieces of gear they have their eye on and that is it, anything that drops extra to that becomes open for consideration at the time. We might agree it's open to greed to all members and I get a high role (98 for example), but then I think "Meh, someone else could use it better I'll just pass and let it go to the next highest lot" well I would think that if this were any other game than FFXIV.

If your system doesn't allow for the ability to 'pass' after rolling I can only ask why? Didn't we upgrade from the 1.0 system so you could have more ability to customise and alter the game system as needed? I might be misunderstanding what you mean when you use the word 'system' and I do fervently hope that is the case. But if you are starting to experience limitations in being able to alter core game systems already... That is concerning.

i personally feel noone has right to loot, need/greed is there for everyone to use when you tell someone hey i want this one take it or get out i feel you're stealing loot by saying you can't have this. but that is just how i feel about it. it is nice to see se seeing what everyone wants and making it better for them.

Those counter arguments to OP are so fail, lol

I support OP. Have been saying current rolling situation should be visible since forever. Even though you can't kick ppl, but at least peer pressure can try to force people to exit before loot is distributed, or others can greed and take the item away from the person that did not keep to the agreements beforehand. If they don't exit, just leaves a bad name for them on their own server.

I've seen so many lotting "mistakes" (although not once have they affected me personally). You must be really retarded to not be able to control yourself, control your conscious to press the wrong loot button.

Edit: Just saw the dev's response after replying to post. Doesn't help by reporting, it's a lose-lose situation. Sure he gets the item confiscated, but you don't get your item either. I would still feel being grieved even though an action was supposedly taken against the individual at fault. This isn't solving a problem at it's source.

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Originally Posted by Camate

ultimately we feel that there are situations where we would like you to decide on the rules amongst yourselves.

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It would be nice if you give us the tools to enforce those rules.

Implement popular loot rules that the party as a whole can agree to activate before entering a duty. Such as master looting, free-for-all, gil-dkp, suicide kings, 1-need-unlimited-greed, call-loot. The benefit of this approach is that no disagreements can result, since the rules are enforced by software.

Having these alternative rule-sets built in also means that there will be much less drama, meaning much less to investigate, saving enormously on the human resources that would be going in currently to investigate all these reports.

I can't say I'd trust trade to be implemented in duties, it could be exploited too easily. Such as bringing a friend to the duty with you to make them lot with you against other people to raise your chances of obtaining said item (by having your friend trading it to you); or even worst, lotting on items you would instead pass to then trade them to those who actually needed them in change of gil.

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Originally Posted by Alipoprocks

For example, healer gear drops in coil. A group sets up some lotting rules to make it fair to everyone and everyone agrees to greed lot only. A piece drops that a healer wants very badly and so he needs on it while the other healer greeds on it because that was the deal they had.

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Why would anyone agree to greed only if they know there could be item drop that they could potentially need? Need if you need othevise pass, Greed if you need it for offspec othervies pass, Pass if you dont need it to main/alt. Simple as that.

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Originally Posted by Synestra

Why would anyone agree to greed only if they know there could be item drop that they could potentially need? Need if you need othevise pass, Greed if you need it for offspec othervies pass, Pass if you dont need it to main/alt. Simple as that.

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For coil, greed only could apply to tank gear if for example one tank goes healer instead for easy T2, or really any other situation where one member of the preformed group has to go as something he didn't really want to go as.
The agreement then is that if a piece drops for his original job, there will only be greeding on it (and those who would otherwise have greeded will pass), but if a piece drops for the job he actually goes as, he may not need on it.
Situations like that is basically the only time when I'd agree to not need lot on an item. General greed only, forget about it.

whats so hard about just needing if you can or greeding otherwise, why over complicate things? or if in the case an agreement is made and someone breaks it, boot them from group blacklist and go about your day. like was mentioned earlier in the thread the loot in this game is pretty disposable and handed out like candy, its nothing to let your day get ruined over

It may be disposable. .. but waiting 2 months to even see that bard visor in coil drop and you had to go as healer this run, and the Pld out rolls you even tho his archer is only lvl 17. To bad, so sad. Trust me... you'd agree with OP then.

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Originally Posted by bardaboo

It may be disposable. .. but waiting 2 months to even see that bard visor in coil drop and you had to go as healer this run, and the Pld out rolls you even tho his archer is only lvl 17. To bad, so sad. Trust me... you'd agree with OP then.

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The lesson there is don't run with lootwhores. If it was a PF Coil then you're at the mercy of other people's decency and knowing what they've rolled wouldn't change a thing other than lead to a bunch of bitching and moaning in Alliance channel and griefing tactics such as people being kicked so the preferred person would get the item.

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Originally Posted by Alipoprocks

Sorry you got kicked. But could have been for many reasons. Maybe they wanted someone else in the party. Maybe it was something else you did or didn't do or said. I doubt wanting loot was the reason.

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Clearly if someone's experience is counter to your own they must be at fault and/or lying.

having the party be able to set the loot would be nice. or at least the party leader and when you get in a duty you cant change it. a simple disable need so everyone has to greed would be fine with me. way too many, "oops i didnt meant to need on that" are bound to happen.

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Originally Posted by CUTS3R

Ive been kicked from an Ultima farming party as BRD today just because i said i was greeding on the Tank ring, in case they didnt want it.
The leader was a WAR who won the ring and still kicked me from party after we all left the instance, so... yh.

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Was there an agreement between everyone to only greed lot or something?
Without any agreement in place, just need/greed whatever.
If you get kicked over using greed or even just saying you will greed if noone else is needing it, that's just them being asshats. Possibly reportably as griefing.

I didn't read the whole thread, but if i'm not wrong you cannot vote kick when there is something to lot, and even if you knew beforehand it would probably not change anything.
If he is going to take the blame after winning the lot he will hardly care if you blame him before the item goes in his bag. He will just wait for timeout and give his greets.

I can see why we would do this on DF, but for premade groups? It's such a hassle looking over who has lotted what in coils.

Say for example, DRG gear drops again and everyone who wanted it already has it. We spend nearly a minute figuring out who wants and has lotted in mumble just so it doesn't go to waste. We've had several instances of gear nearly dropping the floor because "Oh we thought you lotted it" scenarios.

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Originally Posted by Grizzlebeard

The lesson there is don't run with lootwhores. If it was a PF Coil then you're at the mercy of other people's decency and knowing what they've rolled wouldn't change a thing other than lead to a bunch of bitching and moaning in Alliance channel and griefing tactics such as people being kicked so the preferred person would get the item.

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But...but.. he meant to click pass.... those pesky buttons are so close together.

There have been quite a few times where I've greeded on something that wasnt' essential, and then someone else said they really wanted it more and I wished I could pass.

The ability to 'Pass' after you 'Need' or 'Greed' would be a nice feature.


Also, it would be nice if players could set their "Need" to a Job of their choice before entering the dungeon.

There are plenty of people who are geared to the teeth for their main Coil jobs, but want to collect gear for other jobs.

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Originally Posted by Arkista

Well if this type of behavior won't be tolerated then can we submit a report with a Screenshot? In the future.

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Just report them for cheating, give the Time you made the agreement, and the name of the offending party. Note: If you put it in Party Finder, make sure that you confirm agreement BEFORE the instance is queued. If they do not CONFIRM being willing to be bound by the 'rule' of the party then you are SoL as far as Cheating/Harassment Report goes afterwards.

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Originally Posted by bardaboo

It may be disposable. .. but waiting 2 months to even see that bard visor in coil drop and you had to go as healer this run, and the Pld out rolls you even tho his archer is only lvl 17. To bad, so sad. Trust me... you'd agree with OP then.

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dont run coil with randoms, pretty simple really.

or if you do, then only ever go on the class you need loot for. personally, if im in a PuG, i dont change jobs just to clear an instance if i think there might be something i actually 'need.' why would i waste my time raiding somewhere with random people i dont know on a class that isnt my main, in the hopes that one of these people that doesnt know me and is on a class that is their main would pass/greed with me?

im sorry but i just dont have that much faith or trust in strangers.

moral of the story, if you are joining a PuG join it on the class you actually need the loot for or run the risk of not getting shit

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Originally Posted by Camate

ultimately we feel that there are situations where we would like you to decide on the rules amongst yourselves. Before entering a duty, make sure that all party members are informed of the agreement. All party members should agree to those terms before entering to ensure an agreement is clearly understood.
Breaking these agreements, or behavior that imposes on other players' enjoyment of the game, will not be tolerated. If after an investigation it's confirmed that a player clearly understood the rules when joining a group and still acted in such a manner, proper action will be taken against the player, which may include confiscation of the item or account suspension, so please avoid doing anything like this.

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why are you policing the system you made. thats what need greed pass is for. i saw this comming when they announced the need greed pass system. most pf groups for primals are now greed which is complete BS. NO NEED FOR GREED if you can NEED an item plain and simple

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Originally Posted by lordbraska2

why are you policing the system you made. thats what need greed pass is for. i saw this comming when they announced the need greed pass system. most pf groups for primals are now greed which is complete BS. NO NEED FOR GREED if you can NEED an item plain and simple

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Pretty simple. Need/Greed/Pass is the default when party don't agree to any other terms.
Want to be able to Need lot, don't join/agree on greed only.
Not abiding by player rules that you have agreed to falls under griefing.

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Originally Posted by Fangdragon

Moral of the story, I'm running on the job that needs the item and sorry if your lacking tank for your run.

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In all the MMO's I've played, I've never agreed to "Run as another class but get the drop anyway'. There is so much room for screwing yourself over that it isn't worth it. :(

I don't want to make another thread about loot but to maybe help with "accidental" needs/greeds (I've accidentally greeded on an item I didn't want) allow a small trade period for drops that ONLY dropped in the dungeon?

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Originally Posted by Fangdragon

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Perfect example with the largest problem with CT and any dungeon.

I have WHM leveled to 50. I have full CT for it, going for BRD now. I have no issue with still running WHM but I can't 'need' on BRD gear. While healers are in slightly less demand than tanks its still a really crappy situation. Everyone can thank SE even more for people being forced off these needed jobs when they are willing to run them if they can 'need' the gear they want. It amazes me how little SE thinks anything through.

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Originally Posted by CUTS3R

Likely to prevent harassment. Lemme use an example with CT:
Parable about stuff.
Thats it. Thanks roll display \O/

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There are 2 sides to every story, how do we know that you didn't pull a last minute loot? And NEVER announce that you have rolled, or what you have rolled in a pug. EVER.

Why not just have loot lock out and let the game create multiple copies of an item that dropped if more than one players decided that that's the item they want to spend their weekly allotment on? If going by the total item drops in coil, it's 8 items per week for 8 players so we can have 1 allotment per player weekly (there maybe arguments against this). Then we can just scramble the first 3 turns (1-4 or 6-8) that drops the loot to have every item except for the items from the last turn. I realize that there are drawbacks to this such as loot dropping to the floor, people leaving the group after they get what they wanted, losing the possibility of being really lucky and getting up to 8 drops from coil to yourself (lol), etc.

But since yoship seems to want players to form statics for this, it shouldnt be a problem since everyone would progress by 1 item a week one way or another and statics wouldnt abandon their group after getting their loot in turn 1 (or 6) since they don't have to do the rest anymore (or we could separate the last turn from this allotment system as an incentive) and people can help other people finish coil since there shouldnt be anymore entry/win lockouts, if their fc doesnt have multiples of 8, people can hit coil multiple times if there's something they really want (abandoning wont really be an issue anymore either?) and people wont have to fight with other people for loot.

I'm not claiming that I think it should be like this by the way. Just a thought. Just for coil I mean.

I still don't see the point of keeping rolls hidden.

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Originally Posted by Alipoprocks

I still don't see the point of keeping rolls hidden.

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it's as people has stated so that if someone rolls on something they can harass them to leave and give up the item that have all rights to loot on.

i personally feel se should punish players for claiming loot but that's my own personal feelings there is a need/greed for a reason hate queue times as a dps and play a tank/healer then you lose all rights to that loot hope noone needs. people shouldn't feel pressured to give up loot simply because someone else *deserves it more*

I would like there to be an option to cancel a roll you've made and just Pass... it's annoying that I can't decide to Pass after I've cast a Need/Greed. There've been a couple situations where I regretted doing so and wanted the item to go to someone else, but had no way to Pass after the fact for them to get it.

really made me curious is the situation that bad?

I mean, I've never had issues like this or subjected to abuse, vote kick or what not. even in PF parties when we say greed only, everyone plays by the rules and only roll greed on the item they declared they wanted when they joined/accepted into the party.

I read this whole thing and I still don't understand how seeing the rolls ahead of time would solve the problem OP wants to prevent. You still can't kick them or remove them from party, so...

For instances like Coil and Primals, you are able to leave even after you roll by accident. But yeah, I do not see why there isn't a pass option after you roll.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

it's as people has stated so that if someone rolls on something they can harass them to leave and give up the item that have all rights to loot on.

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I find that to be a such minor problem. You will most likely be harassed if you win the loot anyways....if they do such thing to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Musashidon

i personally feel se should punish players for claiming loot but that's my own personal feelings there is a need/greed for a reason hate queue times as a dps and play a tank/healer then you lose all rights to that loot hope noone needs. people shouldn't feel pressured to give up loot simply because someone else *deserves it more*

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I can only agree to that statement if you didn't set up a rule before the instance starts.

This is one of the reason why we have tank shortage. If you're doing a generous act to get the run going, you should have a say in it. If you don't agree to it, then say it before hand so I HAVE a clear option as to join or not.

Now if it's duty finder, then that's another story.

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Originally Posted by FelisC

I read this whole thing and I still don't understand how seeing the rolls ahead of time would solve the problem OP wants to prevent. You still can't kick them or remove them from party, so...

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I've personally encounter some problems for not knowing:

Some people may not aware they actually Need/Greed/Pass because they did it on a whim.

Some people think that other people already Need/Greed so they pass or leave the instance. And thus leaving the loot unclaimed.

Overall, it's more helpful for pre-made groups to know beforehand so they can distribute properly if necessary.

As for duty finder, people will be frustrated regardless if this is implemented or not.