My FC is going back to FFXI... FFXIV FAIL

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Originally Posted by Bluezero

>Claims game is too easy
>Still wearing Darklight pieces

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I love how healers wearing what I'd call the "full myth baddy" always resist anyone's -the game is too easy- opinion, quite a mystery there...

can I have your stuff?

I don't get all this "fail" talk. Just because you don't like the game or can't keep entertained by it, it doesn't mean it's failed. I don't like WoW and none of my friends play it. Must mean WoW failed, right?

This game is still new and still have a large player base. Subsequent patches and expansions over time can/will significantly improve the gaming experience for many players. No matter what, there will always be people who dislike the way the game is. If you're ready to leave, that's fine. But claiming the game a failure is just silly. Silly, silly people.

The only real standing points that FFXI has over every other game is that it wasn't (isn't?) afraid of being punishing and imbalanced. Only certain classes could solo relevant end game content with the right equips/jobs/spells leveled. Were the devs afraid of that or public opinion? Not at all. People forming SMN or BLM burn parties for endgame content without any desire for having other jobs be part of the fight? NO PROBLEM! BLMs and SMNs outdamaging other classes by huge numbers? All part of the plan. Players found a way to make NIN a great but unintentional tank? Let's roll with it! MNK groups becoming so strong that they can burn through high level mobs to gain exp at rates exponentially better than any traditional group? Nice find players!

When you're not afraid of imbalance and (temporary) public outcry, you allow players the opportunity to find ways to immerse themselves in your game. And more often than not, they'll find things that would surprise you enough that it could change the way the game plays in a positive way (e.g. players figuring out how to make NIN an unintended tank). It's a huge point that FFXI has/had over other games, and that's honestly enough of a reason to run with it for many people. It might be exponentially easier now, but there's so much to do that they're at the point of just adding things for the fun of it... which means that they're adding things that are designed to be for players to have fun, as odd of a concept as that is to many people these days. "You mean it's not going to help me get the best gear in the game? WTF!?1 BULL****!!1"

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

SNIP

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BLM KRT Parties - you get +1
MNK Asuran Fists Parties - you get +2
Ninja Tanks (especially before the Utsusemi nerf, you know when 1 shadow used to absorb ALL aoes) -10!

I exagerate a bit to make a point, but FFXIV battles are hard in the way a Contra level is hard. You have to memorize the pattern of the enemies and dodge a lot of stuff. This is NOT about RPG, tactics, strategy and character development. This is about dexterity, hand-eye coordination and lack of lag. It may very well be hard, but it's hard in a sense which doesn't please a big part of the players which were looking forward to devising strategies, not play an arcade.

A MMORPG should be about:
- "what party composition is best for a certain fight?"
- "we don't have the best party composition, but let's adapt our strategy based on what we have"
- adaptation and to some degree improvisation to what happens in the fight. Look at Titan EX. Does that leave any place to improvisation or a different strategy? 90% of the fight is about a group of 8 people synchro-dancing on a pre-remembered tune.

I want this game to succeed because it has a ton of potential in the way it's executed. It's beautiful, it has atmosphere, great looking characters, the combat has a nice feel to it. But they simply tilted the balance way too much towards the "arcade" side so to say of the game, in the detriment of the RPG/strategic/tactics part, oversimplifying the later. And this makes the game shallow and lacking any kind of difficulty in the RPG sense.

Fixing it simply involves giving WAY more uniqueness to the each job and make each best at a certain thing. Yes, for certain fights some jobs will be less than optimal, but that is really not a problem. Some people will level the optimal job, some will adapt their strategy around that, working with the rest of the party. It's what makes these games fun.

In fact, their plan of having the DD jobs equal in the sense that they are all acceptable in any scenario has failed. See the Ranged vs Melee dispute.

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Originally Posted by ZenAero

And where are you getting those statistics? no where. that is what I thought. Don't just throw around numbers. Then again, the casual player base could be growing because the hardcore players are bored and leaving haha.

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A while back, Blizzard released statistics of how many players did raids. For Black Temple (the toughest at the time), it was less than 2% of players who even stepped foot in it, and those who beat it were statistically irrelevant. That's when they realized they were spending WAY too much of a percentage of development on something so few players even saw. They then switched gears, made easier to pug raids, and later LFR. If not for that, they then would have to have stopped making new raids. The "hardcore" are always a minority that should be and will continue to be ignored, it's just good business.

FFXI was never "hard", or challenging, and i don't know where you people get that from. While leveling, barely touch keyboard while auto attacking (much slower than global cool down here) and only going after mobs that are "easy prey". They are all so spread out in huge empty zones, there is no risk of aggroing other mobs anyway. With trust npcs now, it's even easier.

It might be me, but isn't the fact that people have to argue about whether or not the game is worth playing or paying for or fun, kinda answering the question itself?

If it was a great game and still fun, you wouldn't even need to debate it. Even suggesting it was boring would have everyone just react with a "are you crazy?" response.

I don't see why people react so badly to these "I'm done with XIV" threads. Its a way of expressing the disapproval and disappointment with the game.

I think the people that are defending XIV are just in denial. Much like the XI crowd was when Seekers of Adoulin came out and everyone said it was the end of XI. 1 year later, and servers are empty and SE is pumping out desperate content to try and retain as many subscribers as they can.

They didn't listen in XI, and it doesn't seem like they will listen here. XIV is done.
Please, look forward to it.

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Originally Posted by ZenAero

And where are you getting those statistics? no where. that is what I thought. Don't just throw around numbers. Then again, the casual player base could be growing because the hardcore players are bored and leaving haha.

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http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/pr/blog/000506.html

The player base that was around 50 first this survey ARE the hardcore player ... and ohhhhh wait a minute, they are 5-10% of all the players, strange
These numbers have not change that much, They may have changed but not significantly enough, at give u an error margin of 5%.

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Originally Posted by Royze

BLM KRT Parties - you get +1
MNK Asuran Fists Parties - you get +2
Ninja Tanks (especially before the Utsusemi nerf, you know when 1 shadow used to absorb ALL aoes) -10!

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Not sure why some folks have such hate towards NIN tanks. I mean, early on, they were terrible (dem dunes/qufim/yuhtunga parties), but they got so much more fun to play later. Especially if you had the money for it. I used to run NIN/BLM when allowed to. It was stupidly costly to play, but was pretty fun to do such high damage in a different way, while also taking nearly no damage.

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Originally Posted by NoRyoKu

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/pr/blog/000506.html

The player base that was around 50 first this survey ARE the hardcore player ... and ohhhhh wait a minute, they are 5-10% of all the players, strange
These numbers have not change that much, They may have changed but not significantly enough, at give u an error margin of 5%.

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Since when did having a level 50 make you a hardcore player?

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Originally Posted by NoRyoKu

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/pr/blog/000506.html

The player base that was around 50 first this survey ARE the hardcore player ... and ohhhhh wait a minute, they are 5-10% of all the players, strange
These numbers have not change that much, They may have changed but not significantly enough, at give u an error margin of 5%.

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And the fact that on legacy servers the majority of us can have free mules, and the fact that RMT are rampant throughout all servers doing low level quests, selling gil, then getting banned, rinse repeat DO NOT SKEW THESE FIGURES AT ALL?

What about the free 2 play trial period for new players?

Statistics are just numbers. They are not definitive.

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Originally Posted by Royze

And the fact that on legacy servers the majority of us can have free mules, and the fact that RMT are rampant throughout all servers doing low level quests, selling gil, then getting banned, rinse repeat DO NOT SKEW THESE FIGURES AT ALL?

What about the free 2 play trial period for new players?

Statistics are just numbers. They are not definitive.

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Yea, it is kind of a large leap from high level characters == hardcore players.

Heck, I know some people on Reddit were lvling multiple characters at the same time, and I'd say that's pretty "hardcore". It wouldn't have shown in this guys stats.

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Originally Posted by Royze

And the fact that on legacy servers the majority of us can have free mules, and the fact that RMT are rampant throughout all servers doing low level quests, selling gil, then getting banned, rinse repeat DO NOT SKEW THESE FIGURES AT ALL?

What about the free 2 play trial period for new players?

Statistics are just numbers. They are not definitive.

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exactly, SE does'nt know shit about statistics and this is clear evidence. What were their methods as far as counting goes?

http://i.imgur.com/YOPnRym.png

I feel like I'm seeing more players all the time. If that means the game is a failure ... *shrug*

its really weird ultimatum to say "im leaving because i want you to fix your game......." "my one voice and all my buddies will speak volumes on how this is too easy for us"

This thread in a nutshell is basically:

This game is too easy so I'm gonna go play a game that's too easy.
See you when 2.2 hits.

I'm out.

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Originally Posted by ZenAero

Since when did having a level 50 make you a hardcore player?

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Ok, so all comes down to the definition of an hardcore player. This is true that this can be arbitrary. So here is 2 cents.

An hardcore player is someone that cap tomes everyweek, play for gear only, run throught new content in a week, don't care about other stuff to do in game such as crafting, side questing, complains because there is not enough stuff do to. SE cannot satisfy those people so why botter to put energy to develop 100 dongeons per patch, why botter to make the levelling system so hard that only those can get to 50. It MUST be somewhat easy to get stuff for casual or else this game wouldn't exist. Casual ARE the majority in a MMO, you cannot convince me otherwise. Majority wins that's all.

Final Fantasy XI, hard?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-zFm97YREBw...r-laughing.gif

Even in the "glory days", Final Fantasy XI was never hard. It was a giant time sink. Time sink does not equal difficulty. Don't get me wrong, I loved the game, and it was one of my best MMO experiences -at the time-, but I'm not going to let nostalgia glasses sugarcoat what the game was.

Fix the game? I'm confused. Is it broken?

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Originally Posted by ZenAero

Actually, I don't care what the players think about my post or us playing FFXI. I am hoping that if SE and the developers see enough posts like this they will fix the damn game. We are playing FFXI for many reasons and we do realize it was made much easier.

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What you may call "needs to be fixed" others see as ok or great in their book. Just because you and your FC don't like the way this game is coming along doesn't mean it failed, just means it wasn't for you, which is too bad (i guess) and i hope FFXI will be more of the game you're looking for (which i highly doubt since it's basically the same exact thing now).

I know I didn't say FFXI was hard...

Before you all go, can you transfer to Lamia and send me your stuff?

You say: "I'm leaving"

I say: "Do it more quietly without the need for attention whoring. K fanks bi"

This whole hardcore/casual divide is so ridiculous. People are so hyperbolic and reactionary now-a-days. If you dislike something it's ZOMG FAIL if you like something it's ZOMG EPIC, if that's the complete gambit of your opinions and feelings on games you would do us all a favor by walking away. It's too bad the game isn't hard enough for you, but there are plenty of difficult games out there. Feel free to take your team and give competitive Counter Strike a try or shoot for World First kills in WoW. There is so much mastery out there that you haven't and will never achieve. It seems kind of silly to complain about things being to easy for you, are you sure you're not just avoiding all the difficult things?

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Originally Posted by RaideDuku

Final Fantasy XI, hard?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-zFm97YREBw...r-laughing.gif

Even in the "glory days", Final Fantasy XI was never hard. It was a giant time sink. Time sink does not equal difficulty. Don't get me wrong, I loved the game, and it was one of my best MMO experiences -at the time-, but I'm not going to let nostalgia glasses sugarcoat what the game was.

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Anything is essentially a giant timesink. That argument is becoming pointless as time goes on. I highly doubt just anyone would have ever considered having teams of 3-6 RDM sub DRK so that they could chainspell stun Dynamis Lord to prevent his AoE to be a working strategy (it was a concept that was never used before). To be honest, figuring out strategies to fights without any sort of clue to them is a lot more difficult of a task than simply following a pre-determined avoid-the-bad pattern. Just like anything difficult, once you figure it out, that difficulty is practically gone. I agree that a lot of FFXI was a timesink, but so is practically everything. ANYTHING in life can be seen as a timesink.

Stop feeding the troll... This is only a troll for attention thread anyways... Quitters quit they don't whine about quitting...!!!

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Originally Posted by NoRyoKu

Ok, so all comes down to the definition of an hardcore player. This is true that this can be arbitrary. So here is 2 cents.

An hardcore player is someone that cap tomes everyweek, play for gear only, run throught new content in a week, don't care about other stuff to do in game such as crafting, side questing, complains because there is not enough stuff do to.

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That sounds like a casual player to me, hardcore players at the moment are running through all content by hour 2 of day 1 (and then they cap their myth if they care about alts) and by the 3rd-4th hour of FFXIV are done for the week and can go do real life stuff... I don't even know where to begin with people mentioning crafting and questing (not sidequests). Questing in FFXIV means you kill some # of mobs, events all involve waiting for some boring FATE to pop, and crafting has become completely useless for now once again (unless you cook).

So to sum it up the hardcore players are the ones that play this game the most casually :) odd, right?

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Originally Posted by Bluezero

>Claims game is too easy
>Still wearing Darklight pieces

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Do people not realize how comments like this make them look silly? Im not saying I agree with OP or disagree I miss XI and I like XIV too but seriously.. because someone is CURRENTLY GEARED AS X JOB in Y GEAR SET DOESN'T MEAN THIS IS THE MAIN JOB! The argument is invald.. Hell im pretty sure im set up as a kyri on here right now? Ill probably be a level 12 archer or something? But funny story, Im actually lv 50 on all dow/m minus arcanist, I have full lv i90 sets on my main, my alt (not even the one in the picture) has lv 40-50 all DoL/H and a few DoW/M as well but have been using Kyri(my old main) since 2010 on forums so yes, I stay as my now alt I changed the name to and race to. Point being a lot of people have alts and don't log off on their main jobs so please stop acting like looking them up in darklight vanity or af makes you superior to knowing what they are talking about please.

Sorry it just really drives me crazy when I see this as ones argument towards a disagreeing point made by someone else.

I understand OP, my FC is going back to ball in a cup.

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Originally Posted by Royze

It might be me, but isn't the fact that people have to argue about whether or not the game is worth playing or paying for or fun, kinda answering the question itself?

If it was a great game and still fun, you wouldn't even need to debate it. Even suggesting it was boring would have everyone just react with a "are you crazy?" response.

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So unless everyone is 100% in agreement that something is good, it must be bad?

Do you even realize what you're saying? Have you ever interacted with another human being... like, ever?

Don't let the door hit you on the way out. I'm quite content.

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Originally Posted by ZenAero

6. PvP wtf?

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Let me get this straight. You're going back to FFXI in part due to PvP?

wut.

They have their pacing wrong here.

They made content so accessible and simple that it would be devoured quickly... by many hardcore and casual- and failed to develop fast enough to keep putting out interesting content.

What they did put out was mostly recycled.

As a casual, my problem here is that I've done the casual stuff... and coil (yay PF)... and now it's just log in, do some stuff at the beginning of the week and log out. It's a lockout lobby game.

I can't afford housing... there aren't lots of quests for interesting furniture or unique crafting recipes. The whole game is an incredibly linear gear progression that is very repetitive. It's a farming game from the moment you hit 50. Bleh.

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Originally Posted by Bigpurpleharness

Let me get this straight. You're going back to FFXI in part due to PvP?

wut.

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Most likely "wtf is it doing in a FF game". Though XI had ballista.

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Originally Posted by Bluezero

>Claims game is too easy
>Still wearing Darklight pieces

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there is people in ilv90 gear who cant do the ilv50 content right.
that comment has no weight.

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Originally Posted by Bigpurpleharness

Let me get this straight. You're going back to FFXI in part due to PvP?

wut.

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noooooooooooooo lol b/c XI is more fun basically.

One day I wrote a post about how I'm leaving the game...and it turned into 20 pages of alcohol in plastic bottles.

Win.

LOL at the people on these forums, it is quite sickening reading all of these posts. The guy is obviously bummed that his whole fc is basically quitting the game and wants to state why, there are many many other people in this same boat. To the people saying "bye don't let the door hit you" are being completely rude, if you like this game so much then why are you sitting on the forums reading posts? If you agree then agree, if you disagree then state the reasons why, if you post anything other than that you are a "troll".