60 Minute Time Limit on New Dungeons

Seif has been let down. Surprise surprise LOL.

Also, Dynamis was shit. Nostalgia glasses gtfo.

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Originally Posted by Draco

I did not say time limits. I said limitations. Gathering fatigue, Skill Point Fatigue, paying a monthly subscription and having to pay 3 dollars for each and every single extra character when almost all other MMO's give you multiple free characters ( yes the game is currently free ) are just some examples of limitations.

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Exactly... Caerith has a bad habit of not paying attention lol ... if it's a brain dead hour as I said and can finish easily in that time that in itself makes the time limit pointless... and seriously if you played any other mmo's aside from 11 which u seem to be stuck on (which the devs still took forever to learn from thier community only with less fallouts then 14) salvage was a joke so it's funny how that keeps being brought up... and never said im against pre planning before entering but you should also be able to take your time inside as well... go ahead though, defend it, gives me a good laugh haha this is SE we're talking about... Luckly the OP knows what he's talkin about... They are to stubborn to learn from their past...sad how far japanese game developing has gone down in just 1 generation

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Originally Posted by Sonic_the_Hedgehog

Your wish is granted, you should just quit the game. Also SE hasn't let all of us down, just you.

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If that was the case FF14 wouldn't be sailing the fail boat still....or even to begin with... Love how people fail to realize that this is a series entry FF... they're not goin all out like they should to fix their mistake, nor looking at what works...stubborn devs just like the current stubborn populace which still plays... So many things in 11 even took over 5 years to add... basic mmo stuff... yes Yoshida is an improvement cause he's more open minded but he's still tied down by his own restrictions... You know its a sad generation when even american gaming/devs passes that of japanese... only hurting themselves though... well themselves and alot of the insecure folks here LoL

Hah! Wait wait. You are telling me that 60 minutes for a FFXIV Dungeon is too little?
Just wait to play one before judging, please!

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Originally Posted by Seif

I've never felt this way about a game before it's like watching your close relative become an alcoholic and there's nothing you can do about it.

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You hit the nail on the head completely lol

Nyzul was 30 min. It was awesome. This could be double the awesome. I hope its really hard and innovative.

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Originally Posted by Sonic_the_Hedgehog

Your wish is granted, you should just quit the game. Also SE hasn't let all of us down, just you.

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And the hundreds of thousands of people who rushed out and purchased this game with their hard earned money in the middle of a recession only to see it go down it time as probably the absolute hands down and omfg worst release in history.

I'm still playing though ;)

I spent 1.7k on a new computer for this freaking game. I am going to ride it till the wheels fall off. Make no mistake friends, I will not go quietly into the night (as you can plainly see).

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Originally Posted by Rinsui

Dynamis was a similar mechanism. A fixed time limit that could be extended by meeting certain preconditions.
A very good system that rewarded efficiency, coordination and strategy.

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Ugh, Dynamis. A system that punished you by giving you more time in Dynamis.

Yea Dynamis sucked...Aht Urghan was beautiful in its events. Could have used a few more assaullt tags though.

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Originally Posted by Zahak

Yea Dynamis sucked...Aht Urghan was beautiful in its events. Could have used a few more assaullt tags though.

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I thought ZNMs were a bit cheap, but Assaults were beautifully done. I was really let down by the Campaign version of it, though. And by Campaign in general.

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Originally Posted by Sonic_the_Hedgehog

How does having a time limit going against having to coordinate and strategize? In fact I think it enforces it, especially if it's difficult content! Think about it, if your party has only 60 mins to complete a dungeon, wouldn't you try to have a plan before hand? Also having non-timed dungeons wouldn't keep people from rushing through.

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can you name one thing yoshi and his group has released that could qualify as a challenge? ok now take it a step further. can you name one thing in this game that is challenging? now take the answers of no and no and wonder why people are skeptical that this will have any kind of challenge to it. most feel this is nothing more than an instanced leve. you get a party and rush your leves because the time limits are so high that even the most unskilled party could complete it. if they can a decent group could complete it in half the time and a good group could do it in a few minutes.

they may release it and change the opinions, but at this point i do not blame anyone for being skeptical.

It would be neat if we'll have the possibility to extend the time (similar to Abyssea), doing particular things in the dungeon.

If they put in a system like Dynamis where you could extend the time limit, this would in my opinion cater to both types of players. Those who want to spend hours and hours doing an event will be able to push hard and "farm" more time possibly in order to open up longer access, and "casual" players that maybe that day do not have as much free time can still do the dungeon but just spend the hour time limit in it and still achieve something.

I am interested to see if they implement something similar to Nyzul as well, other than just having the "kill all mobs" objective to a dungeon - e.g. kill a number of a certain mob family, find and kill an NM within a group of mobs, maybe even a "lantern" type objective with spires... I dunno :) I am also hoping that similar to Nyzul the dungeon layout changes each time that you enter it, rather than having just one set map.

Interesting stuff either way ^^

The time limit and conditional awards make it an FF thing and not a WoW thing.

Looks good to me.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

can you name one thing in this game that is challenging?

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Finding the motivation to play?

But seriously, how much has Yoshi-P actually done that's in-game? Unless I missed some big content push, all that's been added since he took over is a handful of quests (which are basically guildleves) and some NMs. These dungeons are the first real thing we'll see from him, aren't they?

It's a bit underwhelming, but at least it's something.

i also dissagree with the time limit, whats the point? whoes it hurting? why does it matter how long anything takes?
what if you decide to completely change plans, classes (if possible... we dont know this yet) things like that can take time.

also, what if a party member DC's or just leaves the group, i hope there is a system of re inviting or replacing that person. this is another thing that can take time.
so why the 60 mins?
they must be very small dungeons.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

can you name one thing yoshi and his group has released that could qualify as a challenge? ok now take it a step further. can you name one thing in this game that is challenging? now take the answers of no and no and wonder why people are skeptical that this will have any kind of challenge to it. most feel this is nothing more than an instanced leve. you get a party and rush your leves because the time limits are so high that even the most unskilled party could complete it. if they can a decent group could complete it in half the time and a good group could do it in a few minutes.

they may release it and change the opinions, but at this point i do not blame anyone for being skeptical.

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So true...

If the new dungeon will be hardcore like they say, i bet that 99% of the players will be owned for weeks...

and you all can say "thank you Leves"... the worst thing I have ever seen in a game....

Its absolutely incredible how those fantastic leves teach you how to unlearn to play a game...

My figers are so crossed, for the 1st challeging content, that I have trouble to type......

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

can you name one thing yoshi and his group has released that could qualify as a challenge? ok now take it a step further. can you name one thing in this game that is challenging? now take the answers of no and no and wonder why people are skeptical that this will have any kind of challenge to it. most feel this is nothing more than an instanced leve. you get a party and rush your leves because the time limits are so high that even the most unskilled party could complete it. if they can a decent group could complete it in half the time and a good group could do it in a few minutes.

they may release it and change the opinions, but at this point i do not blame anyone for being skeptical.

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I could name off stuff I find challenging, but then again you could counter saying that stuff isn't challenging, so why bother it's pretty much subjective. Anyway what you typed doesn't go against what I said, there will be people that coordinate and strategize and if the dungeons weren't timed there would be people that would zerg through them anyway.

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Originally Posted by Draco

I dont understand why whenever SE releases anything and I mean ANYTHING, they always have to put limits on it. Why not allow people to experience it at their own pace. I just cant for the life of me understand this.

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There are good limits and there are bad limits. An example of a bad limit is SP fatigue since it is arbitrary and promotes frustration rather than encourage good gameplay.

A time limit is not necessarily a bad form of limit. It can be used (especially in repeatable content) as a gauge to determine how "good" any given group of players is by seeing how much they can do in those 60 minutes. Take a game like Pikmin, for example. The time limit in that game encouraged players to figure out more and more efficient ways to utilize the map and their pikmin to accomplish their goals before sunset.

Another example of a time limit adding tension and replay value is the time limit for Mercenaries mode in Resident Evil 4 and 5.

Now of course, there is always the possibility that the time limit mechanic will somehow be implemented badly, but we won't know that until we actually play the new patch. Until then, it's pretty much theorycrafting based on minimal information.

(which is why I would like a test server, so that our discussions are based on fact more than speculation)

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Originally Posted by Dreadnought

so why the 60 mins?
they must be very small dungeons.

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They could have many ways/paths to finish. And that would be nicer than have a very long one-way dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Munba

They could have many ways/paths to finish. And that would be nicer than have a very long one-way dungeon.

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They do have multiple ways of completion. Yoshida mentioned this in a post last month.

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Originally Posted by Dreadnought

i also dissagree with the time limit, whats the point? whoes it hurting? why does it matter how long anything takes?
what if you decide to completely change plans, classes (if possible... we dont know this yet) things like that can take time.

also, what if a party member DC's or just leaves the group, i hope there is a system of re inviting or replacing that person. this is another thing that can take time.
so why the 60 mins?
they must be very small dungeons.

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Why, in a nutshell:

Instances take up server resources. The game can only offer so many instances of any given area at a time.

Remember the BCNMs for the companion quests in FFXI? Or when people realized Splitting Heirs was profitable? Or primetime Nyzul and Salvage? Or anytime Limbus and Dynamis? If you did any of those, you probably spent some time waiting for the people inside to finish. Maybe you even lined up for it.

Now imagine if those instances had no time limit. Want to do that BCNM? Got your people together for a KS99? Tough shit, somebody decided to have a picnic in there. Maybe come back tomorrow, they might be done.

Time limits are necessary for instances. Otherwise you'd have idiots and trolls wasting everyone else's time by locking the instance.

Kinda makes you wonder about the motivations of the people complaining about time limits.

Time limits are not bad. If you played FFXI and remember salvage, it was a 100min limit with tons of stuff to do. There were multiple paths you could take, multiple NMs per floor to kill, and ramparts to farm.

These dungeons may not be as Robust since they have had other priorities, but don't be so quick to write this off. A time limit creates a sense of urgency and further enforces formulation of strategies to make the best of your time. If you could enter a dungeon and know you have all the time in the world, it's not as fun, IMO.

I'm lookin forward to it. Hopefully things are challenging this time around and that'll make it all the better.

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Originally Posted by Draco

SE reffering to these dungeons as raids is probably another issue in it's own.

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You can pin this one on the Japanese players. They consistently conflate the concepts of "dungeon" and "raid". They generally say レイドダンジョン.

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Originally Posted by _C-a-e-r-i-t-h_

Finding the motivation to play?

But seriously, how much has Yoshi-P actually done that's in-game? Unless I missed some big content push, all that's been added since he took over is a handful of quests (which are basically guildleves) and some NMs. These dungeons are the first real thing we'll see from him, aren't they?

It's a bit underwhelming, but at least it's something.

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well i would consider 30 nm's a pretty big add and quite easy. nerfing the already easy nm's that were already easy and made them laughably easy. those absolutely horrible side quests that were added. these are things that have been added under yoshi. none of it has any challenge to it at all.

they want the game to be more casual, i enjoyed dynamis overall, but after awhile, you hated time extensions, because it was like damn, we gonna be here an extra hour.

Its possible the time limit is a challenge factor,
Or its possible the dungeon is really large/variable and the hour time limit gives you reasons to come back to do different parts.

Time limits are usually a pretty good challenge, mechanic, forcing people to play well, and maximize effeciency. Many people never learned how to play PSO till they added cmode, which had rewards for completing things as fast and as effeciently as possible.

The key here is how replayable these dungeons will be.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

well i would consider 30 nm's a pretty big add and quite easy. nerfing the already easy nm's that were already easy and made them laughably easy. those absolutely horrible side quests that were added. these are things that have been added under yoshi. none of it has any challenge to it at all.

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Yeah but none of those were really new, just variations of things developed by Team Tanaka. Dungeons are the first wholly original content that Yoshida is introducing to FFXIV, so we'll see how they turn out.

Well i can list one event that was timed in WOW, Amani bear runs. One of the more challenging( at least till we over geared the heck out of it, and had the strats down pat) and fun runs in Burning Crusade. Bear runs were way more fun then most of the other raids at that time period, because people had to be on their toes and everyone had to give 110%.

Judging content before its released or done is a little crazy imo.

besides no time limit just means hiding place for all you botters and rmt lol.

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Originally Posted by weeble

besides no time limit just means hiding place for all you botters and rmt lol.

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Who could possibly want more money in this game?!

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Originally Posted by Seif

Who could possibly want more money in this game?!

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Botters also bot for SP, too.

The ones crying about a 60 minute timer know they are going to be hard pressed to clear it *if* it's actually challenging. You'll be doing the dungeons 100 times before SE releases another one so don't cry to us about "QQ time to explore" "QQ I want to spend 4 days in an instance to clear it" "QQ my pace is most precious to me". Thank you SE for giving us a semblance of Nyzul and Salvage and giving us multiple conditions for gear to be dropped. First step in the right direction.

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Originally Posted by Seif

Who could possibly want more money in this game?!

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Me....because my opinion has more carry to it than anybody else who has an opinion. My 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

Also, I bet that the 45 dungeon is going to be hard ;O

mmmmm more blind complaining, how sad this is getting.......

I do have to admit, then calling it a "Raid" was not a good idea, as it does not really fit the bill. But like most of the stuff we know, we dont know enought to really start complaining like this. I swear I think some people complain just to read their own posts........

4 words, Extended Moblin Maze Mongers....

Looks like a viable rip off, and a shitty one at that...
With the same god damn mobs we've been fighting since release lol

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Originally Posted by Gath

Me....because my opinion has more carry to it than anybody else who has an opinion. My 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

Also, I bet that the 45 dungeon is going to be hard ;O

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LOL nothing in this game is even close to resembling anything that looks like something in the least bit that could possibly be challenging. I'm sure a retarded monkey with 1 arm could get to R50 in this game. XD

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Originally Posted by Seraphita

4 words, Extended Moblin Maze Mongers....

Looks like a viable rip off, and a shitty one at that...
With the same god damn mobs we've been fighting since release lol

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because showing a screenshot of djiggas, skeletons and orobons means thats all thats gonna be in the dungeon? how ignorant are you lol. There will be new mobs added with this patch, that can be 100% expected.

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Originally Posted by Richard

because showing a screenshot of djiggas, skeletons and orobons means thats all thats gonna be in the dungeon? how ignorant are you lol. There will be new mobs added with this patch, that can be 100% expected.

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It takes place in a dungeon so obviously it's a MMM clone.

Just without the Moblins. Or the mongering.

And it might not be a maze.

But apart from that, totally a MMM rip-off :D

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Originally Posted by _C-a-e-r-i-t-h_

Yeah but none of those were really new, just variations of things developed by Team Tanaka. Dungeons are the first wholly original content that Yoshida is introducing to FFXIV, so we'll see how they turn out.

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actually dungeons were started by tanaka also. instanced dungeons were discussed before the change and were already stated they were in the starting stages. at least back then things didn't sit in the we will discuss possible implementation sometime in the future after we go through cost analysis for months at a time.

you're right we will see how they turn out and i hope they are great. i just stated i can see how people are skeptical of what it is with the track record so far.