Enough

Curious as to where you got the numbers to back up "5% of the player base is hardcore."

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Originally Posted by DefendPopPunk

Curious as to where you got the numbers to back up "5% of the player base is hardcore."

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because yoshi wants to convince us only 5% of the player base is on endgame stuff.

*Shrug*

Titan may be hard for some but it's far from impossible. Also, with Party Finder, it makes it much easier to find groups to clear it with, or to fill a few spots for FC runs.

And to be honest, if all content was extremely easy that every one and their dog could beat it upside down and blind folded, I wouldn't be interested in this game.

Besides, with every update it's likely SE will make the older content easier. So all the people who have trouble with x content can clear it to see the story.

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Originally Posted by Xayoc

Objection: Being bad is not Square-Enix's fault. Dodge mechanics and both Titan Primals are simple.

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Maybe not, but designing every encounter with cheap, over-powered "avoid this or die" attacks in lieu of forcing people to play their roles well like XI did is just as bad if not worse.

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Originally Posted by DefendPopPunk

Curious as to where you got the numbers to back up "5% of the player base is hardcore."

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The lodestone hides peoples achievements by default and most people do not make their achievements viewable so its almost impossible to see how much of the playerbase has progressed on content.

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Originally Posted by Marael

Just because you have no problem dodging, doesn't mean other people don't. Go to youtube and look at any one of thousands of videos that CLEARLY show that there IS a huge problem with lag on that fight. You move out of the way, you're clear by a wide margin, and it still hits you. IT HAS BEEN DOCUMENTED if you care to even bother looking for it.

Bye.

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OP said the game is to HARD.

lag =/= hard

it's pretty obvious SE is using some kind of weird system. in any other mmo I can macro instant abilities together. not this one.

I did Titan before getting a static. I'm not the best but after doing it repeatedly I wouldn't get hit by anything.
Titan is all about memorization and muscle memory. Not the best design, but I don't mind it once in a while.

My connection isn't very reliable either. When it's good, you can dance in the plumes for a while before running out.
When it's not, a millisecond more reaction time would mean getting hit. Still, you can compensate for that, it's just a pain.

I'm not going to applaud Titan's fight design. I think dodging the floor and linear one shot mechanics are cheap.
That's not to say I don't enjoy the fight. I do it for fun all the time. I join people in PF just to help them out.
If all the fights are like that, I wouldn't like it. Thankfully they're not. People just make a big deal of it cause they get stuck there.

However, there's a lot to be said for the sense of accomplishments walls like Titan bring to end-game.
It could be better done as a fight, but the function is the same.
Like I said, I did Titan before being in a static and it was tough. When I got it down, it felt great. I felt a sense of accomplishment.
When helping people do it, they're always so ecstatic if it's their first kill. It's even moreso if they use VOIP.
I think that's a great part of playing an MMO, and honestly not many fights give that sense.

So I think Titan is pretty has a pretty good place.

You don't really need to buy Titan runs to win anyway. First time doing Titan HM got me landslided on the first minutes, watch the base floor until the fight concludes. Manages to win and get the loot anyway. I did the run with DF. Yes, I'm a bad player and lucky one at that :)

Why do people like you even play video games?

I guess I would just point out that, say SE listens and nerfs Titan HM, well, he is merely one roadblock on the highway. Once he is dead, Coil is unlocked. Then what?

Say you even clear the first 4 turns, then it's turn 5, then what? There is always going to be a big bad to work on. And if you do manage to clear T1-5 and the EX primals, then it's just gear farm time for maybe a few hours each week...

Those that aren't complaining that the content is too hard are complaining that there isn't enough to do.

this thread is horrid. the game is already too easy as it is.

if a group can afford to win with 6 or 7 and charge others for the runs because they can't do it with 8 then the problem is in the skill level of those 8 that couldn't beat it. it's 8 man content that's possible to win with 6 people.

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Originally Posted by NefGP

Maybe not, but designing every encounter with cheap, over-powered "avoid this or die" attacks in lieu of forcing people to play their roles well like XI did is just as bad if not worse.

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You have that backwards. Pre Abyssea there were bosses with 1 shot type moves if you did the mechanics wrong. Post Abyssea pretty much every boss had an instant death 1 shot move, and a multitude more that were hate resets. FFXIV has very few moves of either sort.

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Originally Posted by MurakumoMillennium

You have that backwards. Pre Abyssea there were bosses with 1 shot type moves if you did the mechanics wrong.

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Don't really remember too many one shot kill moves but FFXI you can recover a lot easier.

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Originally Posted by Marael

Just because you have no problem dodging, doesn't mean other people don't. Go to youtube and look at any one of thousands of videos that CLEARLY show that there IS a huge problem with lag on that fight. You move out of the way, you're clear by a wide margin, and it still hits you. IT HAS BEEN DOCUMENTED if you care to even bother looking for it.

Bye.

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How do those videos prove anything? Let alone that it is SE's fault?

anyway, this thread is bad and OP should feel bad.

I can agree to one thing, since it is the pure truth (imo): ilvl for DF (Titan HM at least) is too low.
DF is less than ideal (understatement) and people screw up easily, and even if you dodge fatal stuff (landslide is game over for that player), they'll screw up on other mechanics and take excessive damage

Higher ilvl requirement for Titan HM would ensure that at least a small part of the lack of cohesion and lack skill (less than optimal dps, less than optimal healing, etc) will be offset by gear.

As it stands now, if all players are at the absolute minimum ILVL for Titan HM, the fight is impossible for most if not all full random DF groups.

That being said, extreme modes should have way higher ilvl too, for the same precise reason.

I disagree with making the fight easier (by dumb-ing down mechanics) thou, even thou that's what other games did, making random group fights feel brain dead.

You may disagree with me, but that's my honest opinion on the matter of Titan HM and upper, when it comes to DF at least.

I've thought long and hard about this and I just cannot figure out what exactly it is about Titan that throws so many people off. Some people say it's the irrecoverability of getting hit; Demon Wall does the same and no one complains about it. Some say it's the short times given to get out of WotL; FFXIV is hardly the first game to require you to know something bad is coming ahead of time. If you die, then you know it's coming and take steps to avoid it the second time around. Some say it's lag; I've seen freak cases and videos where there does seem to be a desync in the fight, but I haven't seen or heard of many of them since they reduced the update times. If you consistently lag badly and can still make it through other content, I think that means previous content was too easy. Plus, there are people with 250~300 ping who can still make it.

I just don't get it.

In any case, I believe making relics mandatory by tuning content around them was a flaw. Maybe it's old school thinking now, but relics should've been rewarding to get with multiple options to choose from beneath them, rather than the other way around where relic is needed to then get a multitude of weapon choices.

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Originally Posted by OogaShaka

I could give a rat's butt what the hardcore gamers {btw only 5% of your player base}

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Where do these percentages come from and why do you mention them if you don't care? Color me confused.

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Originally Posted by OogaShaka

...go ahead and laugh if you want...

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lol

Move early if you have lag. Or ask to stand in the back away from others so that eating 1 plume won't kill you.
Before 2.1, I have to MOVE BEFORE seeing plumes in order to dodge them (1 silent count after the end of stomps and end of mountain buster).
After 2.1, I have no problems dodging.
- And I am connecting from Asia.

Alternatively, play a caster where you can use SPRINT. If you use sprint at the start of stomps after the heart phase, sprint will always be up just in time for the next plumes.

Before you say anything, I cleared Titan HM 7x in 2.0 with a bad connection. Some with help from FC/LS, some with random PUGs from Revenent's. When I start any run, I always tell the party I will preemptively run diagonally towards the back so don't run into my plumes.
It is not impossible. You just need to learn how to ADAPT to the timing of your connection.

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Originally Posted by GabrielK

I can agree to one thing, since it is the pure truth (imo): ilvl for DF (Titan HM at least) is too low.

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I agree that maybe the ilvl is too low for one reason: It's sooo easy to gear in this game.
I've seen people with many i90 myth pieces that still don't have a relic and maybe even quest reward gear mixed in, like level39 rings or something.

I've also seen people in dungeons at lower levels with "missing" gear entirely. I did AV with a tank that didn't have a single thing on the right side... no accessories at all!
People just don't care about gear... you can go through 1-50 in your race clothes and still win(nearly).

Well, game without any particular hard challenge will die rapidly compared to those games with difficult challenges. It is the driving force to keep people playing and trying to beat it and keeps them in the game.

SE is not at bad here. If you can't get pass it, don't you have so many other ways to get pass it? You don't have to be like those paying for carries, just request your own FC members to assist you, or get in some Linkshells and probably there are kind souls out there to help you get pass it.

Well if you still can't take it, I suggest you just play some mobile phone app games to kill your time then, pretty easy and less challenge.

we have beaten titan HM in the min ilvl gear, its not a hard fight, its stupidly easy, and pug groups on my server DO DOWN it through the party finder, hell when i'm bored I join those groups.

Any fight that can be solo healed/tanked is a easy fight

At this point in the game titan hm is a joke. If you can't beat it because of lag issues then its because of lag issues and you should either A) fix the lag issues on your end or B) if its not on your end, you should be complaining to SE to fix the lag issues.

Titan HM and all of the other fights in this game are simplistic. Unfortunately, they require more reaction than actual strategy. If you are trying to do titan in duty finder it will fail as there are under geared, under aged, and terrible players who are just trying to get the quest done. The fight is over tuned and has way too high fail rate for a duty finder. My suggestion is to find a fc, one that hasn't had most its members quit the game already and has properly geared players for the fight. There was a time in final fantasy where killing a primal meant having the proper resist gear and strategy. Now I guess its all reflexes and putting up with idiots.

I would prefer hard content to actually be able to challenge us, thank you very much. Especially if it's towards something like a relic weapon, to make it feel like an earned accomplishment for gaining a powerful weapon. I doubt most people need to pay others to beat Titan for them anyway. The fight isn't really that bad after some runs at it to learn it. Then it becomes more or less easy if you have a decent group.

You can progress without doing Titan HM. Go farm myth until you're full i90 (besides relic) and then go into Titan. I walked into Titan HM and dodged every single thing and said "wow this is it?" The only hard part is the DPS check for heart, but you should always be doing 1 tank strat. Please stop paying for this game and don't make topics like these anymore

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Originally Posted by Sphinxy

The fight is over tuned and has way too high fail rate for a duty finder.

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This is my main complaint with it. I've been trying to set a goal for myself to only beat it with Duty Finder to prove it can be done. Never even got close. Ifrit, no problem, nails being the main issue, especially with the LB changes, though now with a lot of people being better geared, it's possible to do it without LB3. Garuda, only issues have been groups with not enough dps, but cleared it in less tries than ifrit. Titan? Too many one shot mechanics too close together in my view, especially compared to the others, and being in DF. Not even going on about latency and display of effects, but getting a landslide during bombs that only leaves you the option of running into active bombs, just feels cheap. It just feels so out of balance compared to even King Behemoth or other bosses of CT, and you need Titan to continue in the game even.

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Originally Posted by Jubez187

You can progress without doing Titan HM. Go farm myth until you're full i90 (besides relic) and then go into Titan. I walked into Titan HM and dodged every single thing and said "wow this is it?"

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Doesn't matter how leet you feel or think your skills are, if most of your team isn't and keeps getting killed, good luck soloing it down. (which i've actually seen someone do on ifrit.)

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Originally Posted by rabbitzero

Not even going on about latency and display of effects, but getting a landslide during bombs that only leaves you the option of running into active bombs, just feels cheap.

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Though I agree one shot dodge mechanics are cheap and not that interesting design, it's never like they force you to get hit (except if your teammates surround you with plumes).
That example would only happen during the cross bombs. In that scenario, you can run to another opening once you stay on the outside. The bombs explode from the center so there's enough time even with bad latency (weight of the land is much less forgiving with lag).

Multiple types of one shots is the only saving grace of the Titan fight. It's boring to just react to one shot attacks but when there's interaction like the landslide and bombs, then it's much more interesting. Especially since those scenarios usually are a lot more forgiving that the very simple Weight of the Land attack.
Stack, move out, you lag you die. That's cheap. Landslide + Bombs isn't, in my opinion.

Titan EM has a lot more interaction like that, so it's a lot more interesting too. One shot mechanics aren't interesting.
But if you're going to do them, at least do them with style.

You cant categorize a bad with a bad connection. Those are way to different things. A player could be good and knows how to play his job well but with a bad connection obviously he/she will perform bad.

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Originally Posted by OogaShaka

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To anyone and everyone who agrees with this....LOL REALLY?

The entire Titan HM fight is scripted, that itself is already fairly easy. Aside from Landslide or brink of death (not weakness), the fight is usually recoverable.

If connection is the problem, then that's not really related to the fight at all.

My internet is like average or below average (3.76 Mbps down, 0.67 Mbps up with 96 MS ping), and I've passed most contents except T5 and ifrit EX (In progress)

And that's coming from a mediocre player.

I don't think Titan HM is hard at all. It borders on the ridiculously easy side of XIV content tbh.
However, it is poor game design.
I'm not sure how many others feel this way, but I'm tired of feeling like Super Mario or Sonic; first hit you loose Mushroom size or your coins, second hit you're dead.

Too many of the primal fights require flawless execution. Yes, its simple to memorize the mechanics and for the most part they are very easy. But it's not like you can any of the extremes and have room for error.

If any of the individuals that make up the 8man party make a mistake, you're pretty much screwed.

The only way to beat the content is by repeating it over and over again with the SAME exact group. PT and Duty finder groups are pretty much worthless in these fights because most people will leave or give up once they've made a mistake, or if someone else in the party has made a mistake.

They're too unforgiving and less experienced players will be put off them without having the patience or static members to claw through each phase 1 step at a time.

Right now people just leave at the first sign of trouble and blame the other guy(s).

Poor game design. No strategy from SE's part.

As an Australian player I have managed to do Titan HM surprisingly. However, I admit that the game is ruthless when it comes to connections sometimes. Take the last boss of Copperbell Mines for instance. No matter how early I move I cannot avoid the Power Attack, even if my character is halfway to Narnia out of the circle. Now they could have easily put an instant-death mechanic with the attack, and that would have made Copperbell HM untouchable for someone like me (and many others by what I see).

Defend the game design if you want, but as an Australian I CANNOT get a better connection to the servers apart from moving off the damn continent. I will never have the assurance of knowing if I got out in time or not until the game decides for me.

Titan is easy now that I memorized the pattern. What makes it hard is the lack of effort by others to learn the rotation. Also, the I-level for it is too low for a DF group.

They could end all the arguing about titan (and other dodge heavy fights) by moving the dodging mechanics client side. The problem isn't that the fight is hard, it's that it's impossible to do unless you have a good connection with a good route to the server, and many people don't. Hell, many of my RL friends who play with me live much physically closer to the servers than I do and have even worse lag problems and their ISP is the only game in town. (comcast monopoly for the lose) The problem isn't that the players are 'bad' it's that memorizing every step of the fight so you can dodge weight of the land ahead of time AND having a team of people who all know not only their role in the fight but how to move relative to each other to minimize deaths isn't impossible, but it's WAY too demanding compared to all other steps of the relic for a fight that IS EASY FOR PEOPLE LUCKY ENOUGH TO HAVE A BETTER CONNECTION. That's the real rub of the matter for me. There are people who succeed at the fight far more easily than I do who work less hard to do so, and it pisses me off because it's a flaw in the design of the encounter that makes it a problem. Assuming everyone is going to have a ping of 150 or less regularly is retarded, especially when your backbone provider is notoriously bad.

You all do know that Titan HM and EX is optional right, you don't need it to clear the story.

Just saying, if you don't like something don't do it, there's always crafting and leveling other classes/jobs to keep you occupied.

I know that this affects me as an EU player, Ive got a solid continual connection my side but when the AOE's are cast, I move in time (or so it seems), but still get caught up in it.

So by that logic I dont have time unless I actually know beforehand where the AOE will land through watching patterns.

I dont mind doing that, I will write them down if I have to, assuming all aggro is contained and there is no deviation, if there are changes in the Primal's attacks, Im in deep doo doo for the future.

No, I want more!

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Originally Posted by Doo

The fight is pretty stupid because of how unforgiving it is. I hate having to rely on everyone to play perfectly to beat it. But there are many players that don't even give a good effort into beating it and resort to just buying it right out.

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The thing I hate about Titan fights is that it's group of people soloing. Unlike places like Crystal Tower where if the other group starts falling, I can just rush to them and start healing to help them back to their feet. If somebody dies in Titan, raising won't get them back up. They'll just die from the next set of tumults. :/