Leviathan-Egi: What's its role going to be...?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kyreanna

The only way I see a viable expansion to egi choice is making/utilizing weaknesses. Every primal is representative of a classic FF element, so until "has weakness to water, etc." actually becomes a mechanic to fighting, Garuda will be the go-to pet.

---

I think they've pidgeon holed themselves into a place where elemental affinity would never work unless they made major changes to classes/jobs/equipment, and fights themselves.

would have to surpass the dmg u gain by contagion or wont be worth it ....and if its better dps than cotagion garuda become useless....

and thats why the FFXIV pet system sucks....

FFXI had elements and pets were usefull for other things than dmg

garuda blink and haste > predator claws
titan stoneskin aoe > blunt dmg (skeletons , pots )
leviathan for healing and high lvl bosses (less chance to fail on main attack)
fenrir for random buffs and coolness factor
carby because its carby and its FREE <3 ,oh and healing too ;)
ramuh for stun on aoe
shiva and ifrit were less usefull >< after lvl 70 :(

if only SE implemented the rage / ward blood pact sooner :rolleyes: , and if pets were free by default (like puppets or bst >.>) how awesome would have been

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mimilu

(This is all hypothetical, just me rambling...)
With patch 2.2's announcement, one of the few tidbits SE provided for us was the awakening of a new Primal, Leviathan.
The idea of a new primal has brought speculation about the possibility of a new toy for Summoners to play with, the Leviathan-Egi.
My question is, what role could it possible play?
I mean, Garuda is a Summoners main offensive tool, while Titan is a tank, even Ifrit has its ability to annoy mages in PvP with its physical attacks. Would it just be another upgrade for the Garuda/Emerald line? Or maybe a replacement for Ifrit as the new physical egi? Would it be something unique? Or will they never release another egi and I'm just wasting my time?
What's everyone's thoughts on the subject?

---

Levi will be a egi, same as Shiva and Ramuh. Why is he going to be first, he counters Ifrit and Titan.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ardan

Snip~~

---

SMN also are the only job that required us to complete the story mode before we could get our next quest for job advancement. Summons are also not included in our Job Skills tab - except for Ifrit. Garuda and Titan are separate. As such, they can be updated at any level cap without giving other classes skills because of the fact summons are not considered "Job Skills"

Also, Levi could never go to SCH because SCH can't form contracts with Primals - if it would it would be a summoner. Fairies are not Primals and also not "Egis"

I dont know what this thing is gonna do, but if it can Raise/Resurrect... I want it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ardan

We didn't get the Egis as we leveled up, we gained them through our job class quests alongside of our more used abilities, (tri-disaster, Fester etc). I would assume SE would continue this trend when the cap gets raised by adding in more job quests to gain more abilities, such as the ability to summon Leviathan.

---

That's because Garuda and Titan weren't new spells in the first place, they're model changes and upgrades to the carbuncles. The one new egi that did have its own spell does (unfortunately) take up a job skill slot.

Unless Leviathan replaces Garuda, Titan or Ifrit it will be a new spell, hence my comment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sylari

But summons are entirely mutually exclusive with each other on every level, so that's a nonissue.

I mean as it stands a summoner could already complain that they only have four job abilities because Summon III has absolutely no functionality.

---

From the live letter "We can't just add one new action to summoner, so when we add a new action we have to do that to all jobs. To do that we have to increase the level cap, so right now you wont be able to summon. In the expansion pack the level cap will be increased, so please look forward to it for then.

So sadly that how it works for FFXIV that they most be a level cap increase to add new spell even if it's a pet.

I think the elemental system is just completely wasted right now, frankly.

Take the discrepancy between Arcanist and Thaumaturge/Conjurer. Conjurer starts out with an Earth-typed spell as their basic, and then get Air, Water, more Earth, etc. Thaumaturge starts with Fire and Ice. By comparison, Arcanist starts off with the untyped Ruin.

What's the point of Ruin being non-elemental unless the intention was to make Arcanist comparably less powerful but more versatile? After all, that's what everything about the Arcanist class seems to be, versatility. Instead, I get the impression the types were either thrown on for flavor, or they thought about that but then did away with the whole idea because it would make people whine about one class being "better" than another.

Well this mostly confirms that Leviathan is going to be a new ability gained, so most likely a new separate summon.

I'm sorry but SE need to redo Summoner all together. It feels wrong and broken which makes sense since i heard it was never in the beta.

It's not really broken... at all... People want to see a different kind of summoner (a more pet focused class), but with current game play, the class doesn't break the game in any way. This summoner is a warlock, thus people are upset.

If they don't put in an Elemental Wheel of some sort, i can't see having lots of egis working at all.

Some kind of magic burst would be nice too, you would switch egis depending on your party setup and a possible boss weakness.

I wasn't a fan of FFXI but imho that aspect of summoner was right.

Even outside of elemental weakness, there's changes that can be made that can change summoners and require multiple summon usage
Consider the following:
Ifrit buffs party wide physical damage, Titan buffs party wide physical defense, Garuda buff party wide magical damage, Ramuh buff party wide magical defense, Leviathan buffs party wide heals, Shiva debuffs enemies. (These would be abilities, not innate traits)
These changes alone would make for Summoners to use more than one summon. If the summon's abilities aren't interconnected and on the same timers, on top of DoT's you'd be switching between summons in order to best benefit your party. Now of course this is just an idea, and would require a great deal of balancing so as to not to guarantee Summoners a spot in every party. But, with proper timing, this base idea would make the summoner have to switch between summons in order to best benefit their team. Shiva out before major moves to debuff the enemy, Titan/Ramuh out to help mitigate partywide AoE's. Leviathan out right after to help with heals. Based of your party, you'd have be making choices between Ifrit and Garuda for max damage. There's a lot of possibilities even within this simple idea.

Most games pet classes are like this. Final Fantasy 11 was different, made pets and changing pets mean something.

WoW pet classes, are hunter and warlock, both of them the pets are their to add to dps and make solo play easier, not really more than that. Warlock has a tank pet, a dps pet, a pvp pet, and a self buffing pet and the caster is basically a dot class. Hunter depends on which pet's you tame, but basically the same they get to tame a pure dps pet, a tank pet, and a pet that can help increase the dps they do.

Aion, again their pet's are melee dps (fire), tank pet (earth), pvp pet (wind), and party range pet (water), and the caster is a dot class.

Rift, their are multiple pet classes, but again the pets are more of either tank or pvp or dps while the caster/player does the real damage.

Final Fantasy 11 the pet's meant something to the party and you wanted to change them, other games the pets are only meant to help with the play that your doing at that time.

So it's not broken, it's the norm of mmo's. Final Fantasy 11 broke the normal, but FF14 went back to the normal.

I'm hoping he'll be an AoE buffer:
Tidal Wave: Increase Shadow Flare area 20%
Acid Rain: Miasma II spreads to nearby targets at reduced potency and time after x amount of ticks
Aqua Prison: Binds a target for 20s
Tail whip: knockback to all targets

Enkindle: Tsunami

Leviathan would need something that competes with Contagion but does not overpower it.

Just for fun:

TAIL WHIP: deals x damage to target. Creates a small wave from the target that deals x (smaller value) damage to surrounding targets.

UNDERTOW: draws enemies within x range of target together and inflicts Heavy for x seconds. This would allow for easier use of AoE.

DROWN: Deals x damage over time and lowers enemy Strength. Just another DoT, since we are a DoT job.

EROSION: Applies a DoT for x seconds with potency that increases based on the number of active DoT effects. This would be like Fester, but a DoT rather than a direct hit, and would include the effect of Drown.

TIDAL WAVE: Deals AoE damage. Leaves behind a ground effect that continues to deal damage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Darkstride

Leviathan would need something that competes with Contagion but does not overpower it.

Just for fun:

TAIL WHIP: deals x damage to target. Creates a small wave from the target that deals x (smaller value) damage to surrounding targets.

UNDERTOW: draws enemies within x range of target together and inflicts Heavy for x seconds. This would allow for easier use of AoE.

DROWN: Deals x damage over time and lowers enemy Strength. Just another DoT, since we are a DoT job.

EROSION: Applies a DoT for x seconds with potency that increases based on the number of active DoT effects. This would be like Fester, but a DoT rather than a direct hit, and would include the effect of Drown.

TIDAL WAVE: Deals AoE damage. Leaves behind a ground effect that continues to deal damage.

---

Very nice! I like that you really did try to compete, but not overpower contagion here. I.e., both will still have a purpose.

(Gotta say, I am really hoping that Levi is good enough to allow us to use him often as he has always been my favorite summon)

I don't know if this point has been made yet, but here goes..

Technically, It's not the Summoner that's focusing on dot skills, it's the Arcanist that underneath. With new level caps we may yet see new "pet focused" job skills that bring out the Summoner feel.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MercuryD

Very nice! I like that you really did try to compete, but not overpower contagion here. I.e., both will still have a purpose.

(Gotta say, I am really hoping that Levi is good enough to allow us to use him often as he has always been my favorite summon)

---

Thanks! And I agree, he is my favorite summon as well. I just think Leviathan needs something special to make him on par with Garuda. Overallz Garuda and Ifrit are pretty lackluster, but atleast Contagion is a really good contribution to your base damage output. I would like for Leviathan to have mechanics of his own.

The abilities I suggested would make Leviathan a useful tool rather than an auto-attack bit with a single useful skill.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Darkstride

Leviathan would need something that competes with Contagion but does not overpower it.

Just for fun:

TAIL WHIP: deals x damage to target. Creates a small wave from the target that deals x (smaller value) damage to surrounding targets.

UNDERTOW: draws enemies within x range of target together and inflicts Heavy for x seconds. This would allow for easier use of AoE.

DROWN: Deals x damage over time and lowers enemy Strength. Just another DoT, since we are a DoT job.

EROSION: Applies a DoT for x seconds with potency that increases based on the number of active DoT effects. This would be like Fester, but a DoT rather than a direct hit, and would include the effect of Drown.

TIDAL WAVE: Deals AoE damage. Leaves behind a ground effect that continues to deal damage.

---

First, Leviathan will be a melee attacker.

First ability, Barracuda Dive - Minor slashing attack with a potency of 120- 3 sec cooldown
Second ability, Tail Whip - Minor Blunt attack - added effect of silence - potency of 90 - 40 second cooldown
Third ability, Spinning Dive - AOE slashing attacking in area around Leviathan of 7 yalms - potency 100 - 30 second cooldown
Fourth ability, Tidal Roar - Lowers attack of mobs nearby mobs by 10% for 10 seconds - 60 second cooldown
Enkindle ability, Tidal Wave - Deals water damage to mobs in a cone in front of egi - additional effect Heavy or maybe poison for 15 seconds, 250 potency


We need to follow the set example of the previous egis to see how SE will design new ones.

Previous egis have a basic attack on a 3 sec cooldown, an effect attack (ifrit's stun, titan stun, garuda push back) on a 40 sec timer, an buff of some kind (ifrit's shield, titan's shield, garuda contagian) and an aoe attack.

The problem with your design or idea, is that each and every attack does something to benefit other than damage.

Summoner's lack a silence which is why our next egi will probably give us a silence, we have a stun, now we need a silence. (our effect attack), we need the basic attack, we need a basic aoe attack, and we need the buff attack.

And with your design, Erosion would be way to powerful. A dot that get's stronger for the amount of dots you cast? So we would put lev on obey, run INTO the group of mobs or boss and get in danger area, then cast bio, bio 2, miasma, miasma 2, then have lev cast drown then erosion.. a dot that has it's potency increase by 5 dots? Then summoner would do a quickcast to call garuda and then contagian to increase the length.. that would be WAY to op. Nice idea though, buy way to op. (and of course if they did that, people would then want Fester to get it's buff off the levi dots too.

I think Egis need to break way from their very basic function. As they are now, Ifrit and Garuda are basically an extra auto-attack and that's about it. Garuda has the benefit of Contagion, but otherwise nothing stands out. I think Egis need to have an actual function and some tactical use.

As for Erosion, they could always make the special effects of Erosion and Contagion exclusive so that one over-writes the other. They won't stack. And there is nothing OP about the idea of Erosion, it could have a very low base potency and be relatively useless unless you stack some DoTs first. That would be its purpose and use.