Why do they try to make tanking harder?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Elvin

When I go as a healer on low level dungeons I use to be cleric stance 90% of the time. There is just nothing more to do, and we don't make it to make you r job harder, is just to make things faster and to do...something. Of course, I heal my tanks before they die, but I don't fear to have them go under 40% of his HP. Some healers just stand there...healing, and have tanks at max HP all the time. I don't think that's good, but I undertand that some tanks feel unconfortable being on low HP.
:p

---

As a healer myself I always put keep tanking alive first and dpsing myself 2nd.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Musashidon

actually you're making your job harder. healer not healing and dpsing? let them pull agro watch them die, dps over agroing? let them die, players on a general basis being stupid? let them die. instead of trying so hard to do your job watch as they attempt to live or coordinate without you. if people cannot simply lower their damage or hit your target or even heal you going out of your way to let them continue that only shows its ok for them to do that. so next time they do that just let them die :)

---

i agree with this wholeheartedly, i do it all the time.....but at least take a moment to ask them to focus targets, and make sure you're marking the targets too

I get impatient in low level dungeons. Flash is not enough without Shield Oath, and being a black mage, I see the tank with a lot of mobs yet can't just burn them all...

It's not that they want to make it harder for you, I think.

GLD is just balls at tanking in lower level dungeons anyways. It requires a lot more effort to be effective than MRD.

MRD? Your rotation until 30+ when you go WAR and lose invigorate is basically overpower > overpower > overpower > overpower > overpower > overpower > overpower > overpower > overpower > overpower > overpower > overpower > overpower > overpower > overpower > overpower > overpower > overpower > overpower.

The bottom line is that many players have little or no understanding of group mechanics and/or have no interest in learning them. At times I wonder if some of the people I end up grouping with are mentally deficient in some way.

It's the tank's job to communicate the way they're going to tank just as much as it is for people to follow.

People are not all experienced at the same level and teams need a leader. This is also a social game, so communication is entirely the point.

Whenever I start an instance, any instance in the game, I ask the question "is this anyone's first time". If it is, I explain any strat as required and let the team know I'll be marking. If it's not, I gauge the group's experience to see if we can move through faster.

I'd imagine many frustrated tanks are just as to blame for poor communication, or not even attempting to communicate, and that the few times they find a player that simply ignores their attempts makes them feel justified and righteous.

I had a tank in one low level dungeon that was just spamming riot blade.

Me : Use savage blade, riot blade doesn't add enmity.
Two pulls later
Me : Please use savage blade.
Moar pulls later
Me : Use savage blade, savage blade!
Halfway through the dungeon
Me : OMG USE FREAKING SAVAGE BLADE!
Tank continues spamming riot blade
Me : FOR THE LOVE OF GOD AT LEAST USE FLASH IF YOU'RE GONNA SPAM RIOT BLADE.
Tank never uses flash or savage blade once.

I let the Monk tank instead and just stopped healing the tank altogether, we cleared the dungeon run fine with the MNK tanking.

The point of my story is that bad players come in all jobs/classes and it's not any one person's sole duty to do everyone else's work for them. Each person is responsible for knowing their place in the fight/dungeon.

What I don't understand is why I go into the Duty Roulette and end up in something like Qarn and end up with new players who don't know how to play. How in the world did they get through the previous dungeons to even reach Qarn? Blows my mind.

macro provoke and shield lob together. If a ranged DPS pulls the mob just provoke sheild lob it will come back then continue to flash spam. on an aoe pull you should shield lob run in take the melee to the range and spam flash till about 50% mana then start riot blade combo then flash flash then tab target riot blade combo flash flash tab target riot blade combo. Repeat till the pull is dead. you wont lose agro

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MurakumoMillennium

GLD is just balls at tanking in lower level dungeons anyways. It requires a lot more effort to be effective than MRD.

---

This is true especially since the introduction of duty roulette. If you queue into a lv <30 dungeon with a job equipped, you don't lose the stat bonuses the job gives you (you neither lose any of the 30 points you can set that you have acquired). If the tank is a GLA, they will have a much harder time keeping hate on themselves. MRD has easier time with their higher dps and Overpower, but it still takes more effort.

Because everyone has a different idea of fun.

To you, fun might be never losing aggro once or tanking many enemies at once. To a DPS, fun might be always trying to put out the highest amount of damage that they can or experiment with new methods of execution. As you might imagine, your goals and the goals of the players you are grouped with may conflict with one another.

and if you aren't having fun, what's the point of playing a game in the first place?

but if you always try your best and try to do better every time, i really don't think you should have a problem

Quote:

---

This is true especially since the introduction of duty roulette.

---

i did not have a problem at all doing dungeons while leveling PLD

use flash more, rotate rage of halone on enemies more often. start every pull with 2-3, maybe 4 flash. don't worry about running out of resources, no one is going to die if you run out of mp. but they might if you don't have aggro on everything.

failure is a part of success, so go spam your flash until you are dry and gradually use less in the following pulls to get a good feel for output of threat that you must maintain. mark a target if it's difficult for you to handle all enemies with dps being split, just bind attacktarget1 to one of your keys and keep it handy during every pull

i mean i know some people are new to the role, but it's difficult to imagine that with the way some people are playing that they are actually even trying. its like they are sitting there hitting the first step of their combo over and over again sometimes =\

I'm practicing my Tanking skills constantly. And, some FATES do provide prime Tanking training. Svara in Coerthas is a great example of training holding aggro, positioning the enemy so their AoE doesn't hit the others, dodging AoE, timing mitigation CDs, et cetera.

The A-1 problem I have is, as has been said, people who run out ahead of me (I am a VERY deliberate player and I don't run...); and the RDPS who forget or who just don't care, Shield Lob has a range of just 15 yalms, and they will not, cannot wait for me to run into range and gather the mobs before they start laying down the smack.

Tanking at low levels, I always saw it as either 1: A challenge to hold Enmity from a synched dps, or 2: A DPS is screwing up. Either way, i've learned from it and it has made me a better tank. I do my job very well, and if something doesnt go according to plan, I can adapt to it. If something goes wrong that is completely avoidable, deviating from the control I already have, I let it go. And let that DPS deal with the repercussions.

Thats all in regards to DPS, though. When it comes to healers pulling aggro, it can be rough. When i was tanking low level, took me a while to realise healers build enmity in all engaged targets. Learned from it, never happens again

As far as getting past your Healer DPSing, its tough (especially at low lvls with little damage mitigation and no heals). @ that point, its Tank's way or the Highway. the rest of the party basically has to conform to Tank because, although all roles are replaceable, its rather difficult to replace a tank


All that being said, as a Thaumaturge, I like to keep my tanks on their toes. I time my Umbral Fire, damage boosts and AoEs well to see exactly how well Tanks are holding all aggro. Boy do I enjoy it, but I always have an escape plan. Sleep or Fluid Aura (when healing). What can I say I like challenges

PLD tanking at low levels isn't hard. Mark up, use a bit of flash and then rotate target to ensure threat on all. Basic tanking skills which are sadly not needed at level 50 where you can just spam flash.