Why do they try to make tanking harder?

[truemagus]

I created a little alt gladiator to level that for a while before i build up the energy to finish my whm to 50. It was a blast the first 16 levels...then i hit the dungeons. In all the dungeons and guildhests i have been in I've either gotten a healer in cleric stance dpsing forcing me to use pots to self heal and almost die.


Or that lone dps who is synced down in here and making my job harder by hitting the add no one else is on till it gets on them,then when i get on that add they swap to the other add that i'm not on and pull that one to the. In dungeons i usually get both which leads to a very not fun time for me.One of the times i even had a therma go and pull large packs before me and complain about me not getting aggro,i cannot get aggro when they are across the room,and i certainly cannot get aggro if they keep spamming the same aoe to keep up eminity

Do people do this unconsciously or are they trying to make my job harder than it has to be?

[Noahlimits]

Players are bad. Players in lower level dungeons are especially bad. That's all there is to it.

[Musashidon]

actually you're making your job harder. healer not healing and dpsing? let them pull agro watch them die, dps over agroing? let them die, players on a general basis being stupid? let them die. instead of trying so hard to do your job watch as they attempt to live or coordinate without you. if people cannot simply lower their damage or hit your target or even heal you going out of your way to let them continue that only shows its ok for them to do that. so next time they do that just let them die

[Pikachew]

actually you're making your job harder. healer not healing and dpsing? let them pull agro watch them die, dps over agroing? let them die, players on a general basis being stupid? let them die. instead of trying so hard to do your job watch as they attempt to live or coordinate without you. if people cannot simply lower their damage or hit your target or even heal you going out of your way to let them continue that only shows its ok for them to do that. so next time they do that just let them die

Good luck getting your healer killed because the mobs hit for nothing.

[Musashidon]

Good luck getting your healer killed because the mobs hit for nothing.

this is wrong and right. if the dps and the tank left the healer alone yes you would have a much more difficult time with the monsters solo but of course we are talking about a all around bad group meaning dps and healer doesn't care making it a pointless effort in a sense more like after this i just use savage blade and stop tanking. there even better i get to dps and be lazy in the account of bad players and if since its out now vote kicked thank god i don't have to play with them. oh well win win if you ask me

[Raymeo]

They're the ones with the problem, not you. That is... unless the DPS that keeps pulling aggro is able to tank just fine, which might actually be the case if you're in a level 16 dungeon. If nobody's dying, then nobody will blame you if you just kick back and go with it.

Otherwise...

let them die

Pretty much this.

Of course first, if they are causing the party to die and it's not a simple accident, you should point out the problem and ask them nicely to stop. Assuming they don't stop though, then your solution is to simply stop enabling their counterproductive play. Let them die. One of three things will happen: (1) Ideally, they'll get the point and quit the act. Thank them for fixing the problem and resume enjoyable play. (2) They'll rage quit. No skin off your back. Worth it to wait a few minutes for a replacement instead of banging your head against a wall for an hour. (3) Unlikely worst-case scenario, they don't learn, and they don't rage quit. Instead they stubbornly and deliberately continue acting as they were, and they do so just to spite you. In this case you simply vote-kick them for griefing. You've asked them nicely to stop, and the party saw the whole thing. You'll get the votes you need. Again, worth it to wait a few minutes for a replacement instead of enabling a jerk and crippling your fun for an hour.

Lower level tanking is a pain, but thankfully the lower level dungeons are also very forgiving. Mistakes shouldn't be too dangerous until you get to Brayflox's Longstop, but I promise that holding threat gets A LOT easier by then as you start unlocking better abilities. Until then just stick with it and do the best that you can. The dungeons that you're seeing now are basically training grounds -- mistakes are okay here, so don't sweat them for now. Focus instead on building up your groove and practicing good habits (positioning, communication, monitoring threat on multiple targets, paying attention to enemy cast bars). Somebody mentioned marking kill orders -- this is something else that you should practice now, because it's definitely a good habit to learn, but don't expect your markers to be followed just yet. The other players in these early dungeons are still feeling out their roles as well, and again -- these first few dungeons are very forgiving, so other people might not see the need for such focus. Don't let them get to you. Practice for yourself. As for basic ability rotation, you typically can't go wrong if you pull with Shield Lob (ranged GLD quest reward), Flash the pack of mobs once or twice (so healers don'to pull hate before you can secure all targets), and then proceed to rotate through mobs, giving them each a full threat combo one at a time until they're all dead. (Of course adjustments will be needed from time to time as you're forced to react to things -- including your own party's actions, not just mobs -- but such adjustments will be easy to figure out once you're practiced at monitoring threat levels.)

By the time you get to Longstop these habits will all be natural to you, you will have likely unlocked Paladin for extra defense, the difficulty of mobs will start forcing your party members to play well and obey your markers, and you'll have been awarded your first Oath ability -- it's Sword Oath, which is a stance that gives you extra damage, but don't discard it as useless. The extra damage still acts as a passive threat bonus to all of your actions, and will make a noticeable difference until you get the even better Shield Oath. You will notice a huge difference in threat as you unlock both of these, and over time you also get stronger finishing moves for threat combos, the pinnacle being Rage of Halone. By the time you've got Rage of Halone and Shield Oath, you'll be an unstoppable threat machine. You'll be tanking with your eyes closed and one hand behind your back, and you'll look back and laugh at the frustration you felt in the lower levels. You'll see.

[warren-ragnarok]

actually you're making your job harder. healer not healing and dpsing? let them pull agro watch them die, dps over agroing? let them die, players on a general basis being stupid? let them die. instead of trying so hard to do your job watch as they attempt to live or coordinate without you. if people cannot simply lower their damage or hit your target or even heal you going out of your way to let them continue that only shows its ok for them to do that. so next time they do that just let them die

i agree with this wholeheartedly, i do it all the time.....but at least take a moment to ask them to focus targets, and make sure you're marking the targets too

[Archona]

Healer should be fine DPSing in Cleric Stance, though he shouldn't let you die. Potions are also a nonissue, if you have them and want to use them, sure, if not, then no biggie.
DPS pulling off of you in low level dungeons is not a big deal.

You're probably not using Flash often enough, aren't marking targets, or aren't switching targets often enough.

Important part about tanking is maintaining pace in dungeons. If you're too slow then you may be incompatible with your party members, which leads to things like DPS pulling in front of you.

Letting your party die is just proving to them how bad of a tank you are.

edit:
Just an FYI on healing:

Newbie healers are worrying about keeping everyone's HP at full, while experienced healers know how to DPS while making sure everyone stays alive. There are a few instances towards the endgame where you do need to keep everyone topped off, but in low level dungeons it is most of the time unnecessary. The out-of-combat regen is insanely high, you get faster Limit Break bars from healing people at low HP, and most of the time, a healer who is willing to DPS leads to shorter fights and faster dungeon runs.

[Imapooonu]

I hate it when people say things like this:

....snip.............
DPS pulling off of you in low level dungeons is not a big deal.

You're probably not using Flash often enough, aren't marking targets, or aren't switching targets often enough.

Important part about tanking is maintaining pace in dungeons. If you're too slow then you may be incompatible with your party members, which leads to things like DPS pulling in front of you.

Letting your party die is just proving to them how bad of a tank you are.

.........snip.............

Why do people always do this? Op clearly stated not attacking the same target and pulling hate before hand while away from the centralization of the group.

YET, you seem to deem it appropriate to blame him/her for the mistakes of others. Try taking a tank with low level gear and keep agro from a blm in full myth and see how you do.

It's also clear the op knows how to allow a tank to tank, clearly derived by their description of first hand problems.

Have people forgotten why people use roulette?

[Archona]

I hate it when people say things like this:



Why do people always do this? Op clearly stated not attacking the same target and pulling hate before hand while away from the centralization of the group.

YET, you seem to deem it appropriate to blame him/her for the mistakes of others. Try taking a tank with low level gear and keep agro from a blm in full myth and see how you do.

It's also clear the op knows how to allow a tank to tank, clearly derived by their description of first hand problems.

Have people forgotten why people use roulette?

Nothing in his original post indicates to me that he knew what he was talking about, at all. Hes obviously new to tanking, and is complaining about aggro in early low level dungeons/hests, where it does not matter at all.