Please show some respect.

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Originally Posted by yoshikwalla

You're complaining about people complaining in a forum filled with players who are taking time out of their lives to complain, while the people who enjoy this game are doing just that. And when people reprimand you for creating the thousandth useless identical thread on this matter, you reply the same way that everyone else does on this forum: vain, defensive, argumentative, and incapable of civil discussion. So yeah, I think you do need some "facts of life."

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Even though i agree with you, please stay on topic.

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Originally Posted by yoshikwalla

You're complaining about people complaining in a forum filled with players who are taking time out of their lives to complain, while the people who enjoy this game are doing just that. And when people reprimand you for creating the thousandth useless identical thread on this matter, you reply the same way that everyone else does on this forum: vain, defensive, argumentative, and incapable of civil discussion. So yeah, I think you do need some "facts of life."

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I'm sorry, I can't take anyone seriously who calls a particular group of people "cancer" in their sig for playing a game the way they enjoy playing it. Thanks for your replies.

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Originally Posted by Vasher

I'm sorry, I can't take anyone seriously who calls a particular group of people "cancer" in their sig for playing a game the way they enjoy playing it. Thanks for your replies.

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My signature doesn't make my point invalid.

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Originally Posted by Kaiser_Rage

Even though i agree with you, please stay on topic.

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This topic derailed itself pages ago. I'm out of here.

lol yoshikwalla

I apologize for the aggressive remarks to certain individuals in this thread.

I'm just extremely disappointed that most replies are people who have missed the point entirely, probably due to skimming through my post instead of reading it.

I tired to make a post to remind people how hard it is to work in the this industry, and I'm met with reasons why it's okay to insult them and complain.

Then I'm told I can't have a civil discussion lol.

By the amount of likes on my thread already, I can tell I'm just arguing with the vocal troll part of the community.

This will be my last post in this thread, thanks to all of those who actually read my post before replying to it.

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Originally Posted by Vasher

Snip

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You're demanding people care about something YOU care about and then insulting them when they disagree or say something you don't like.

Yet you are really no different than said people being rude and disrespectful. You think your rudeness is justified because things aren't going how YOU want. Said people think their rudeness is justified because the game's "creative-ness" isn't how THEY want. See how you really aren't any different at all?

They make this game for money, our enjoyment is simply a side effect of that.

We pay them.

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Originally Posted by Lumiin

You're demanding people care about something YOU care about and then insulting them when they disagree or say something you don't like.

Yet you are really no different than said people being rude and disrespectful. You think your rudeness is justified because things aren't going how YOU want. Said people think their rudeness is justified because the game's "creative-ness" isn't how THEY want. See how you really aren't any different at all?

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Wrong lol, they're disagreeing with points I never made, meaning they didn't actually read my post, but I'm finished here anyway. Take care.

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Originally Posted by Vasher

Wrong lol, they're disagreeing with points I never made, meaning they didn't actually read my post, but I'm finished here anyway. Take care.

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That's fine, they can not read or do whatever. Does that make it okay for you to insult them? Me? If Yes, then that makes it okay for people to be rude and insult the developers.

You'll be back, people always say they aren't going to post and then come back and post again. /rollseyes.

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Originally Posted by Synapse

We pay them.

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This, when the money stops rolling in, then they'll be offended, until then, insults from a few bad apples are like water off a duck's back. I'm not saying it's okay to insult them, I'm saying they don't care and or don't even see the insults.

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Originally Posted by Lumiin

That's fine, they can not read or do whatever. Does that make it okay for you to insult them? Me? If Yes, then that makes it okay for people to be rude and insult the developers.

You'll be back, people always say they aren't going to post and then come back and post again. /rollseyes.


This, when the money stops rolling in, then they'll be offended, until the insults from a few bad apples are like water off a duck's back. I'm not saying it's okay to insult them, I'm saying they don't care and or don't even see the insults.

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Yoshi P himself made a post asking people to remember devs have feelings too. They most certainly do see the complaints.

And yes I have been disrespectful to certain individuals in the thread, but not reading my post, and replying to something I never said, is derailing my thread, and disrespecting me. I don't give respect to those I don't get it from.

I'm far from perfect, and I have plenty of my own flaws, but this thread wasn't about me, I don't claim to be special. I just wanted to remind people, and my thread was derailed in minutes. Did I perhaps lose my temper? Yes. Did I ever state I was perfect and above that? No.

I apologize for any insults directed at anyone, my frustration in seeing people derail my thread got the better of me.

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Originally Posted by Lumiin

Here's the million dollar question. Why do you care what other people do? Are they stopping you from playing the game? Is SE paying you to tell other players to have more respect? Didn't think so. SE doesn't care about what a very, very, very, very, very small percent of people are being rude about because they are still getting money from the rude/disrespectful complaining players. Which is all that matters.

People are going to do simply whatever they want/can and it's no amount of threads you can do to stop them.

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This is the post you made which was incredibly derailing, now you attempt to place blame on me lol. It's fine, money is ALL that matters. Have it your way.

"People are going to do simply whatever they want/can and it's no amount of threads you can do to stop them." Clearly trying to make me feel as if my efforts are useless, and belittle my thread.

Read all of my posts and you can see my aggression starts here. You've successfully derailed my thread and made it about me, successful troll.

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Originally Posted by Vasher

Snip

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Thought you were done? .__.

No matter how you try to slice it. You trying to justify your rudeness, it ain't working. If it's okay for you, it's okay for all. If you aren't perfect blah blah don't expect everyone else too be. If you want people to understand and sympathize with the fact that you're mad or whatever then sympathize with the other rude people insulting the devs.

I wasn't trying to "derail" your thread, my point was you are just going to make matters worse. Let the forum mods handle the rude people. That's what they get paid to do and they're extremely good at it. The remove threads fast, they ban people for simply calling people "cry babies" fast. You, someone who is just being rude and disrespectful because people aren't doing what you want, you sir/ma'am are not needed.

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Originally Posted by Synapse

We pay them.

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So we are allowed to treat them in a disrespectful way, right? Slavery was fortunately abolished, you know...

PS. People ranting in a disrepectful way should ask themselves if they want to be treated the same way.

You need to stop judging people by your expectations because they don’t judge you by theirs.

So by saying “We pay them” must therefore apply to you in your job – so the next time a customer is raging at you for not meeting their expectations because of whatever reason you may not be able to, well you’re just gonna have to suck it up and tell yourself “They pay me”

Although they need feedback

We should treat them with respect...because well they did make the game after all! :D

Vash, I don't think the problem is people not reading your post its that what you are asking for is unrealistic.

I agree that we should show respect for the work that is put into creating this game, no doubt. You are trying to get the very people you are talking about to prescribe to a belief system that they inherently lack; not everyone gives a flying f*ck about the devs and their creative energies.

I do. I love the game even with its flaws. Changes do need to be made. Constructive criticism needs to be expressed instead of forum-rage. Asking for it in a thread is admirable; forcing it on others who are probably just trolling you is an exercise in futility.

Well, this certainly dissolved into a mess quite quickly...

Ultimately, people should go by the old saying "treat others as you would like to be treated". To complain about something is all fine and dandy; however, when it is nothing but vulgar remarks, insults, and blatant arguments, it's easy to lose the point of what people want to get fixed. Regardless of if someone's paying another person for their work or not, it's, in no way, cool to just beat on those persons merely because they're being paid for a service. Constructive criticism, on the other hand, makes for an entirely different approach of things.

Ever notice that the devs seem to not respond to blatant threads that just say "I don't like this! This is stupid!" as opposed to the ones that say "I don't understand why this operates this way, how about if we change it to be like this?" Remember the legions of housing threads and how no dev responses were made to them as opposed to Abriel Rosen's well written out one which netted an explanation from Yoshi-P, himself?

I concur with the OP in the fact that we, as gamers, should stand to treat people a little better. How this topic imploded in on itself is a bit puzzling, though I've found that most of the time a civil discussion is nowhere to be had. People tend to enjoy the trolling, rude, argumentative route, I've seemed to notice.

In any case, can't we all just get along... a little?

Also for some people its easier to complain rather than to think op.

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Originally Posted by Umo

So we are allowed to treat them in a disrespectful way, right? Slavery was fortunately abolished, you know...

PS. People ranting in a disrepectful way should ask themselves if they want to be treated the same way.

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Disrespect and Feedback is not the same.

We are customer for a company, we dont like the way a product is made.. i really don't care about how hard it was for them to make the product, in fact it should have been hard and tiring, because they are trying to sell this.


This is like saying we should sit back and pay them and not highlight that their product is a defect. The respectful thing for them to do is acknowledge our complains and return a feedback.

The OP is right. There are plenty of ways to have "a voice" and share an opinion or give feedback without some of the selfish and disrespectful tones that people put out there. You can still voice your opinion without saying things like "I DEMAND that SE change this stupid bull****!" We know that these forums are being read and that the devs are getting our feedback. And you can get the same results from a "It would be be better if they changed this." with (65) likes rather than the rudeness stated above.

I'm a bit surprised no one has mentioned that being polite and respectful in making requests for the game company to please pay attention to these glaring problems players are having... didn't work. Therefore, people will turn to what they see may be more effective... anger. :(

You aren't going to change anything OP. The way this thread turned out is proof of that. People don't want to act civilized when something affects them personally.

This is the age of entitlement and hyperbole. You mix those things together and you have the internet.

These people make games for a living, and get paid for it.

Stop trying to act like they're slaving away in a mine, to bring home food for their families; or working a second job at McDonald's where they get treated like shit.

Fail thread.

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Originally Posted by Sadana

I'm a bit surprised no one has mentioned that being polite and respectful in making requests for the game company to please pay attention to these glaring problems players are having... didn't work. Therefore, people will turn to what they see may be more effective... anger. :(

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I'd only wager that some people feel their comments "don't work" is because they as for specific things and then want them "immediately" and when they don't receive the feedback from the community reps when they feel they should, it's called a loss. This isn't always the case. The community reps seem to take notes down and then slide them across the desk to the developers and when the correspondence rings through, they let us know the verdict.

Also, Otoha, despite what they're doing, does that mean that they shouldn't receive a little courtesy from the fans? I believe that the OP primarily wanted the community that he could get the attention of, to show a little bit more humanity towards the guys sitting behind the computers overseas making this game happen.

In the same sense of if one hired a freelance artist for a commission and paid half up front to get the work started; however, meanwhile as they draw up sketches to show the progress, they get their work slandered and them called stupid and any other myriad of insults... And yet they are to keep working with due diligence to meet that deadline that was promised while having to endure low morale because their customer already don't appreciate their work as is. Hopefully you understand my point. In any case, the devs who develop for games have to work through all of that because they have a product to keep breathing life into. Nonetheless, fans have an effect on a team's morale, believe it or not regardless if the product is getting worked on or not.

In a greater sense, as some of us have said before... it doesn't hurt to treat people like people.

The uproar over housing prices was pretty bad. You got players calling for employees to be fired.

I was with you for the first few lines, then you repeated the word respect too many times, then you told people who hadnt missed the point that THEY had missed the point.

You cant make a thread about positivity and then contribute negatively towards its members, it is an oxymoron in itself.

People are frustrated, SE will take it on the chin, its par for the course in the business that they are in.

I see your angle and i also read negative comments on the forum, nobody disputes that the game is beautiful, they want it to improve, some offer polite crit and some just vent, that's it

But it's so much harder to actually create & build something.

And so much easier to critisize & pizzle all over something that some one else has spent their time creating.

The internet is full of slovenly cowards. Whatever...

Anywho... So who wants pie?

As long as the webz have anonymity, there will be cruelty.

You can complain and be respectful, or you can degrade yourself to dbag level and froth at the mouth and spit bile.

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Originally Posted by Otoha

These people make games for a living, and get paid for it.

Stop trying to act like they're slaving away in a mine, to bring home food for their families; or working a second job at McDonald's where they get treated like shit.

Fail thread.

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No one is acting like they're slaving away. And as you mentioned, they get paid to create games for a living, and DON'T get paid to deal with rudeness. No one, under any circumstance, is ever entitled to treat another human being as poorly as some people do on these forums. Period.

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Originally Posted by Otoha

These people make games for a living, and get paid for it.

Stop trying to act like they're slaving away in a mine, to bring home food for their families; or working a second job at McDonald's where they get treated like shit.

Fail thread.

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you act like it is easy..... and in reality it is not, some of these people are on salary too, so no overtime for them, have fun with that 80hr+ month on month, no end work Athlon that has to be done sometimes to get a game out by a ridiculously set date, by one of your higher ups who has no clue of what is going on.

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Originally Posted by Vasher

I find it harder, and harder to read the forum everyday...
Most of what I see are complaints, passive aggressive insults, and selfishness.

Do you have any idea how hard it is to make a video game?
Do you have any idea how many hours developers work to make deadlines? Just to be told nothing they ever do is good enough for you. Or done quickly enough for you.

These people that make the games you enjoy are HUMAN BEINGS. They aren't perfect. They aren't magical robots that can spit out the content you want overnight, and they can't possibly please everyone.

Please try to have a little respect for the amazing creative talent behind the games we play. If you think you can do so much better, or that creating a world, game mechanics, lore, fixing bugs etc is so easy, then please feel free to attempt to even get hired at a major game developer.

We can't keep treating creative talent like this, if it weren't for these people we wouldn't have any video games to play.
Belittling them, and trashing every attempt they make to please us is like booing your home football team, and expecting that to make them play better.

This post is a call out to my fellow gamers.
Please try to have some respect for the developers, and the incredibly demanding jobs they have. If you aren't happy with something in the game, or you have suggestions, try to make posts that are actually constructive. Your rants do nothing other than show off your tantrums.

Come on guys, we're better than this.

EDIT: People seem to be missing the point entirely, this post is about having respect, and appreciation for creative talent. I'm not defending the game, or any games flaws. I'm simply asking for a little RESPECT.

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People have the right to complain if they are paying for a service! I do believe there should be some control over violent and hatred comments!

But to say people should stay quiet and Let Yoshida do his job is non-sense! If it wasn't for the complaining then 1.0 would have still been around!

Can I Make a game better than Yoshida? Yes just give me a few 10's of millions of dollars and a staff and we would get to work...!

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Originally Posted by Autumnfire

No one is acting like they're slaving away. And as you mentioned, they get paid to create games for a living, and DON'T get paid to deal with rudeness. No one, under any circumstance, is ever entitled to treat another human being as poorly as some people do on these forums. Period.

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True story. These forums are so overrun by a lack of human decency it is really disgusting. Sadly I have seen it across multiple games now, and it is just the online cultural shift many gamers have taken. Voice your opinions, discuss issues with the game, but like the OP said, do it with respect. If people responded to devs that way, as well as each other, there might be actual threads worth reading.

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

you act like it is easy..... and in reality it is not, some of these people are on salary too, so no overtime for them, have fun with that 80hr+ month on month, no end work Athlon that has to be done sometimes to get a game out by a ridiculously set date, by one of your higher ups who has no clue of what is going on.

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If you take a salary job vs hourly then you know that you are gonna get shafted alot of times with no overtime thats the way it goes! And most of the programmers who create games are making good figures 70K+ easily for a passion they like!

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Originally Posted by Atheena

If you take a salary job vs hourly then you know that you are gonna get shafted alot of times with no overtime thats the way it goes! And most of the programmers who create games are making good figures 70K+ easily for a passion they like!

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passion for something you like can easily be crushed when your face is being shoved into it 24/7

You make a thread proselytizing about respect and a kinder gentler forum (which I agree with to some degree) but then do exactly what you're complaining about, and excuse yourself for doing so. How can you win this argument when you don't defer to your own position.






i

Show your respect to the devs by providing feedback on things that could be done better and could potentially damage the game and the players, show your respect to the players by agreeing or disagreeing with their feedback instead of instantly discarding everything slightly negative as "whining". Likewise the devs should show their respect to their customers by listening to their feedback and making positive changes. Respect isn't telling the devs 24/7 how much you unconditionally love Final Fantasy, respect is helping them fix mistakes that will improve the game in the end and will potentially attract more subscribers. If there was no respect for the devs then not a single care in the world would go towards providing feedback to help improve the game and people wouldn't care if the game dies or becomes F2P, likewise if there isn't respect for the players from the devs you'll see them voice their justified disagreement.

The people tend to forget our dev team dont have the final word in the decisions, the people with the Final word in everything ARE........

The High executives above of Yoshi-p, yes his chiefs.

The Marketing High executives have one only focus and is Make Money Today. Today, not tomorow not yesterday, "Today" and they will use advanced marketing tactics for this

1.- An angry costumer IS BETTER than a Happy or a indifferent customer....

2.- Always do Very Small changes but never Big ones, if you balance all the classes in your game the game will become boring. You need keep Top Tier and Low tier Classes. The diference between this classes is 0.5 - 1% but is enough for the playerbase kill themselves in the forums or In game.

3.- Save last resort fixes when they are Needed.

If you are losing 50% of your playerbase, Release PVP!.
If you are lossing players, release two new Classes
If the subs are decreasing, boost 0.3% the inferior classes.
If the game is start die, release all dungeons was reserved for emergencies.

4.- If the dev team wish money for a update. They have make a application to square enix, justifying the objectives in your "Patch". If you dont accomplish this objectives poor of you...

Speaking about business prespective the amount of complain and angry people here is worked as intented sadly... If you go to TERA/AION/Diablo3/SWTOR Forums looks like Ghost towns.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

It's hard not to complain when this game does some many things wrong.

Black Mage not being able to move and cast, and then they have fights like Titan where you move a lot. It's stupid.

Garuda jumping into the air and becomes unable to be targeted until the next time she jumps.

When my spells get interrupted for no reason, the mob is infront of me, I am not silenced or paralyzed, but I get interrupted somehow like 4 times in a row.

You clip through the floor.

I can go on, but you get the point.

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No casting while moving is super common around games, has been common for a long long while. If we could cast and move our spells would also be weaker (since they would balance it towards you not haing to stop casting). It's fun, and nice for a change, but this is not the game that does it! (I think in GW2, a current game, you can do it.. among some others I don't know of).

Garuda's jump is her spell? Why is it wrong for her to be untargattable if she's far up in the air where no one can see her?? She becomes inmune after to keep people from beating on her and getting her lower, they could add more hp to her. Honestly it wouldn't make a difference. Plus it's fun that she does jump, and you have to "be careful" not to eat her feathers in da face.

When your spells get interrupted for no reason and it keeps happening there are 2 things I have notice, one in WP on the satirs where it is a glitch of line of sight and you can't cast. The other one which can happen anywhere is a normal bug where you try to cast something but it keeps getting interrupted, however, if you check the spell that was originally casted will go off and hit the target, causing the dmg and leaving the proper debuff/giving you the AF/UI stack. Very annoying, it's a bug, but the spell still comes off @.@ (I think you can interrupt it by hitting esc, it would be like if you were casting but your cast bar is invisible... pretty odd).

Clipping through floor is again another bug -.-" annoying :/ Mostly visual effect that's caused to some poor floor mapping. Needs to be fixed, maybe it will. (Spell thing needs to be fixed as well).

However, Just wanted to point out the first 2 lines, and then the spell line so you can now know that your spell is weirdly enough being casted regardless.

edit:

To stay on topic, yes you are right, they reserve respect just like everybody else, however they also need to know how to take negative feedback, even if the person giving it doesn't know how to properly do it, atleast work forward taeching them the right ways. And secondly, people get hushed, it happens when threads that have no valid reason to be deleted get deleted, or posts, or people gets banned for speaking their mind against the general direction or specific on some topics.

But yes, try to stay respectful at all times, and keep a clear view, we don't have to be super serious all the time. We can also jest and have fun. Be more flexible, and also try to understand peolpe who can't, and throw a fit/tantrum and rage and curse. -.- While what they do is wrong, it would be wrong of us to hit them with a bat as well just to hush them.

Just to give folks some perspective. The 2.1 patch video from SE says they have 1,500,000 adventures. Let's just be nice and say that 1,000,000 are active players (giving SE the benefit of the doubt and saying 2/3 of their adventures are active, sure why not).

So, 1 person represents 0.000001% of the population. So a post that has 500 likes on it only represents 0.0005%. To get at least 1% of the population to like a single post a post would need 10,000 likes. I can't even find a post that comes close to that many likes. And that's assuming 100% of the active player base uses the forums, has an opinion on way or the other.

What we actually see on the forums are the most vocal (whether positive or negative). Should SE even really pay attention to an original post that has only 5 likes (meaning 0.000005% of the assumed active population) on it? No.

Unfortunately, the trend on these forums are people using it as their soap box. And if anyone even dares to disagree with them they are labeled a troll, white knight, and/or any other randomly creative term they can think of at the moment. Basically each post/thread is it's own micro-community. If SE has any sense at all, they cherry pick the threads/posts to pay attention to and totally ignore others. Folks tend to look at the picture from their point of view, lets say from within the game and not the overlooking view that SE has access to. Does that mean SE can't do no wrong? No. It just means some of the people posting on these forums should just be ignored. Some folks have this righteous sense of self worth and entitlement when it comes to a game they paid for. "I PAID FOR THIS AND I DEMAND THIS!"

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Originally Posted by Scamperoo

You make a thread proselytizing about respect and a kinder gentler forum (which I agree with to some degree) but then do exactly what you're complaining about, and excuse yourself for doing so. How can you win this argument when you don't defer to your own position.

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Exactly from this post;

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Originally Posted by Vasher

trying to make me feel as if my efforts are useless, and belittle my thread.

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Dude just wanted a pat on the back from a mod or something to feel "special"